So about The Fantasy Trip

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The pocketbox is out in stores now, and isn't too expensive. So if you want to add that for the counters, it should be easily doable.
 
So would it be reasonable to say TFT is the proto D&D4e? I always felt 4E was a tactical minis game with a dash of RPG.

I wouldn't say it's unreasonable. But I wouldn't call it the proto D&D 4e unless you'd consider GURPS tactical combat ALSO the proto D&D 4e. TFT has a lot more in common with GURPS than it does with 4e.

D&D4e is very abstract and boardgamey vs. TFT as I've played. I would say D&D4e was more inspired by Magic: the Gathering, MMOs and MOBAS than miniatures games. Where mechanical manipulations are justified with only a thin veneer of theme. It's more about triggering special abilities and executing Magic: the Gathering style mechanical combos vs. any kind of real world tactics. Actions feel less like "tactical" decisions, and more like solving a puzzle.

TFT, even with Wizards, is more immediate and intuitive to me. All characters have the same toolbox of actions. There is no artificial restrictions on any talents or equipment, so a strong enough Wizard can wear armor and wield a battleaxe, and a Hero could learn and cast an Illusion, for example. The only thing that's super-gamey, in my opinion, is the using Megahexes, where AOEs and range are determined via megahexes, rather than counting hexes from the source. Actions are relatively logical reactions to the things that are happening in a combat.
 
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How similar is TFT to GURPS rules-wise?

I guess I'm getting a little confused by SJG having three different RPG products (GURPS, Dungeon Fantasy, TFT) which are all descendants of the same ruleset and are aimed at the same product space which doesn't seem quite large enough to support each niche.

Then again, I guess it's really not much different from TSR having both AD&D and B/X D&D supported at the same time for a while.
 
How similar is TFT to GURPS rules-wise?

I guess I'm getting a little confused by SJG having three different RPG products (GURPS, Dungeon Fantasy, TFT) which are all descendants of the same ruleset and are aimed at the same product space which doesn't seem quite large enough to support each niche.

Then again, I guess it's really not much different from TSR having both AD&D and B/X D&D supported at the same time for a while.

As someone who is not at all an authority on GURPS...

Fantasy Trip shares part of the resolution mechanic (3d6 roll under attribute as one possible type of roll) and similar attribute names (ST, DX, IQ). It uses hexes for combat like GURPS does in it's map based combat rules.

That's about it.

Constructing a character is point buy, but not at all similar to GURPS. Attributes start at 8 and you buy them up with 8 free points on a point by point basis.

How many Talents or Spells you have is dependent on your IQ. You can have as many "slots" (my term, not the game's) worth of Talents and Spells as you have IQ points. There are no Skills in the GURPS sense of the term. Talents are most analogous to Advantages in GURPS, but don't quite map to those either.

So, final summarized answer, Fantasy Trip looks superficially similar to GURPS but is in reality a completely different beast.
 
So, final summarized answer, Fantasy Trip looks superficially similar to GURPS but is in reality a completely different beast.

Hmm, interesting. It looks like it might scratch an itch I didn't even know I had until recently so I've requested my FLGS to set aside a copy of Melee and Wizard when they get them in.
 
How many Talents or Spells you have is dependent on your IQ. You can have as many "slots" (my term, not the game's) worth of Talents and Spells as you have IQ points. There are no Skills in the GURPS sense of the term. Talents are most analogous to Advantages in GURPS, but don't quite map to those either.

The new release reworked this. Spells and Talents are bought with XP. Your total characteristics point volume is now subject to a sever form of diminishing returns which effectively caps them at a lower total than the original edition.

What talents and spells you can take is determined in part by your attribute. For example there are spells that require you to have a IQ 13. At character creation you get to spend your IQ on talents and points. But afterwards you spend XP to buy additional spells and talent with no cap on what you can learn.

Page 45 The Fantasy Trip Legacy Edition: In the Labyrinth
Somewhere around a total of 36 or 37 stat points, if not before, most players will choose to start learning new abilities instead of buying higher stats.
...
It does not matter how many spells or talents you already know, and there is no limit to the number of spells and talents you may eventually gain. However, you may not learn a spell or talent unless you meet the minimum IQ requirement, as well as any prerequisites (such as other spells or talents) shown in the listing.

While I did not play TFT back in the day, overall seems a better system for campaigns than the original

So, final summarized answer, Fantasy Trip looks superficially similar to GURPS but is in reality a completely different beast.
I concur
 
Say I wanted to run a pick-up-and play campaign at a local shop, no guarantee of same players each week, and try to have each night be a stand-alone session that kind fits into a larger campaign if I try hard. How would TFT work for that?
 
Say I wanted to run a pick-up-and play campaign at a local shop, no guarantee of same players each week, and try to have each night be a stand-alone session that kind fits into a larger campaign if I try hard. How would TFT work for that?
TFT is faster than D&D for character generation. Combat is comparable in speed. Just have the list of spells and talents on hand. The only thing that wonky compared to other RPGs is the use of hexes/megahexes for maps. While it something to get used too, it more of a convention like dungeons are for D&D. You can use any hex based maps (or even squares if you fudge a bit).
 
Say I wanted to run a pick-up-and play campaign at a local shop, no guarantee of same players each week, and try to have each night be a stand-alone session that kind fits into a larger campaign if I try hard. How would TFT work for that?
Quite well, i'd say. I wouldn't see the system getting in the way. In TFT, it is good if players accept and enjoy the real risk of death and failure, which goes well with stand-alone sessions and rotating players. It's natural for the basic Melee/Wizard games whose default mode is one-off arena combats. The programmed adventures (Death Test) work well as one-shots where the PCs may well die. It'd also work for the recently published TFT adventures I've read, which tend to be short GM'd adventures. It would not work particularly well for Tollenkar's Lair, which generally wants multiple sessions.

Characters are simple enough that a player can easily be handed a premade fighter character (or create their own quickly) and not have much of a learning curve to understand it. Wizard characters take more to read the spells they have (usually about a dozen for a starting character) and to learn how to play a TFT wizard (spells are powerful and their use is only limited by fatigue, but fatigue can run out fast and is almost as dangerous as being injured).
 
Say I wanted to run a pick-up-and play campaign at a local shop, no guarantee of same players each week, and try to have each night be a stand-alone session that kind fits into a larger campaign if I try hard. How would TFT work for that?

Oh, definitely. You say above you're going to pick up Melee and Wizard. Both are fantastic for pick up and play. Speaking from my own experience, Melee is really easy to get going with. It's very fast to make up a fighter for and get to hacking things up. Wizard is a bit harder. You need to be familiar with Melee first, and the spell options definitely caused analysis paralysis to me in the beginning, but now I've got it sorted out and it's almost as easy to get going with a wizard character.

Note that neither of those two sets are the RPG. In The Labyrinth is the book that adds Talents and all the labyrinth exploring RPG stuff. But with Melee and Wizard you get the basic engine for combat as well as some monsters. You even get a very basic and workable advancement system. As someone who has played RPGs before, you'll most certainly be able to use what you have for some basic dungeon delving.

Or, you can just make up gladiatorial combat scenarios. They're more fun than you might at first think.

Also, the game is really lethal, so your players are going to get practice making up new characters and trying new combinations. I didn't find this frustrating with the game due to the quick creation and play that makes me feel I have decisions instead of just dice rolls.
 
The lethality is expected, and part of the reason I am looking at it - it gives characters leeway to die but since I plan on it being stand-alone sessions and quick to jump back into, it doesn't ruin months of effort. I had a B/X Wizard get level drained and become effectively useless for months of real time while he struggled to contribute and regain his lost XP.

I'm going to use Melee as my jumping on for the rules in general to see how I like them - I know there's more to get before you have the full RPG system. At this point, my main frustration is they seem to be targeting the Legacy boxset as the primary way to get into the game. Which is a *lot* of money to throw down at something that may or may not get any play. I don't know of any other way to get the GM's screen, Tollenkar's Lair, the megahexes, and some other niceties. That's a huge turnoff to me.
 
How similar is TFT to GURPS rules-wise?

I guess I'm getting a little confused by SJG having three different RPG products (GURPS, Dungeon Fantasy, TFT) which are all descendants of the same ruleset and are aimed at the same product space which doesn't seem quite large enough to support each niche.

Then again, I guess it's really not much different from TSR having both AD&D and B/X D&D supported at the same time for a while.
As someone very familiar with all three RPGs, I would say that if you are very familiar with them, it's fairly easy to convert between them.

But TFT is easy and fast to learn, and is presented ready to play, while GURPS is more complex, the 4e Basic Set is full of massive amounts of content for various types of game (medieval, modern, superheroes, weird powers, realistic or cinematic, etc) and so can seem overwhelming at first, and does not come with a ready-to-play setting. Dungeon Fantasy is a slightly simplified GURPS that does offer a ready-to-play setting (D&D-like dungeon crawling with high-powered characters) and that cuts the noise for other game types. BTW there are also some other less visible lines that are like Dungeon Fantasy, called "Powered By GURPS" (meaning like DF, it tries to present one focused setting and ruleset).

To me, they're all essentially different versions of the same game system. And, it's more or less the only type of RPG I'd really want to play because I love the simulationist logic, mortality, and the gameplay of the hex-mapped tactical situations.

TFT is the super-easy-to-learn sentimental favorite. After about five years of TFT, we were craving the additional details that GURPS offers. I continue to occasionally run my original homebrew TFT campaign from 1980 using both TFT and GURPS. They're almost interchangable, the main differences being the details of the magic system (mainly the spell list), the prices of things, the effects of shields and armor, and the detail level overall.
 
I'm going to use Melee as my jumping on for the rules in general to see how I like them - I know there's more to get before you have the full RPG system. At this point, my main frustration is they seem to be targeting the Legacy boxset as the primary way to get into the game. Which is a *lot* of money to throw down at something that may or may not get any play. I don't know of any other way to get the GM's screen, Tollenkar's Lair, the megahexes, and some other niceties. That's a huge turnoff to me.

Under $90 for the Legacy edition from Miniature Market right now. Don't know if you already knew that or if that's really any better from your perspective, but just throwing it out there.

The In the Labyrinth book should be available separately in a couple of months. I already have a HC pre-ordered, because I like HC. It's everything you need as the Melee and Wizard rules are replicated therein. Beyond that, you just need a hexgrid and some counters or miniatures. I guess that depends on how many hex-games you play.
 
The lethality is expected, and part of the reason I am looking at it - it gives characters leeway to die but since I plan on it being stand-alone sessions and quick to jump back into, it doesn't ruin months of effort. I had a B/X Wizard get level drained and become effectively useless for months of real time while he struggled to contribute and regain his lost XP.
And you get some practice in to see just how it shakes as they have solo adventures like Death Test and Death Test 2.
 
The In the Labyrinth book should be available separately in a couple of months. I already have a HC pre-ordered, because I like HC. It's everything you need as the Melee and Wizard rules are replicated therein. Beyond that, you just need a hexgrid and some counters or miniatures. I guess that depends on how many hex-games you play.

Comes with character/monster tokens, physical props and megahex tiles as well if that part of a referee's style.
 
Comes with character/monster tokens, physical props and megahex tiles as well if that part of a referee's style.
Not if you only get the In The Labryrinth book... then you've got all the rules, but need your own hexmap and counters or minis.
 
Not if you only get the In The Labryrinth book... then you've got all the rules, but need your own hexmap and counters or minis.
Sure, just pointing out that the megahex system is a signature "thing" with Fantasy Trip. Not required as you can use any hex grid or even just tape measures along with your own miniatures. The Mega Hexes are just a fancy way of measure range and area effects. Which can be summarized as "Every three hexes" for range. Or for area pick a hex and the six surrounding hexes.
 
FYI, the second boxed set Kickstarter is homing in on its last couple days before it closes. They are starting to pile on the stretch goals and this thing is going to end up loaded with a ton of stuff. It is basically a big collection of play aids for use at the table; I've gotten a lot of use out of the equivalent material from the LE boxed set, so this looks to me like a good investment. Highly recommended to anyone who is into the system and can find the cash:

 
Not if you only get the In The Labryrinth book... then you've got all the rules, but need your own hexmap and counters or minis.
That's not such a bad thing in the age of cheap printers. Seems like a good way to go about getting the dull game at the least cost.
 
Yes. I actually end up not using most of the new hexmaps and counters anyway except reprinting them myself in the original scale, for 1" hex maps, to be compatible with my existing maps and counters, and to get more battlefield for my table space.
 
13 new sheets of MH tiles already unlocked! A deck of octopus 'adversary' cards is in play as a stretch goal! Now or never fans...
 
While I'm rather lukewarm on the whole Octopus thing, I increased my pledge by 10 dollars. I hope the next TFT thing won't be so heavily into Octopuses though.
 
The octopuses have made appropriate note of your disparaging comment
 
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