So not into D&D...sell me on something else!?

Silverlion

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Right now, I'm so burned out on D&D, D&D assumptions, and anything D&D like, except Baldur's Gate 3, but as I play it and realize this is a heavily house-ruled, stacked against the PC's mess (unlike BG1 and 2 IMHO, yes different developers blah blah) that I want to see a fantasy game that is: roll high, Class-Less, Level-less (No 'rank'/'circle' or other stand in for class level that means 'overall character power in everything')


Alas, this puts Mythras/BRP/Runequest right out due to the whole roll under percentile thing.
 
Have you heard of this fantasy game that has been kicking around for a while called High Valor?
No! (Literally, I'm trying to avoid making everything powered by High Valor, because so far that's what I'm so tempted to do for Iressia and the Dragonlands)
 
Right now, I'm so burned out on D&D, D&D assumptions, and anything D&D like, except Baldur's Gate 3, but as I play it and realize this is a heavily house-ruled, stacked against the PC's mess (unlike BG1 and 2 IMHO, yes different developers blah blah) that I want to see a fantasy game that is: roll high, Class-Less, Level-less (No 'rank'/'circle' or other stand in for class level that means 'overall character power in everything')
Well, skipping the usual recommendations...:grin:

Talislanta: The Savage Lands should fit all your requirements IIRC. Though I'm not sure if you'd feel its chargen is "class" based?

Also, there are a number of Cepheus Engine games. I'd recommend Westlands for being potentially closest to what you want, but there's 1520: HRE for historical games (I want:tongue:!), and Blades of Tyri for planetary romance...:shade:
Again not sure if those would pass your "class detector" sniff test.


Of course, BoL is evergreen, too - or Everywhen if you want something closer to Baldur's Gate and need to homebrew some stuff...


And then, of course, there's BotIT if you want something in that vein. Song of Swords might be even closer, on account of fantasy races, but I'm not sure if it has a print edition (nor do I remember whether you'd care)...:shade:


Alas, this puts Mythras/BRP/Runequest right out due to the whole roll under percentile thing.
I see you knew exactly what you were going to get, and wanted something else for a change:thumbsup:!
 
Well, skipping the usual recommendations...:grin:

Talislanta: The Savage Lands should fit all your requirements IIRC. Though I'm not sure if you'd feel its chargen is "class" based?

Also, there are a number of Cepheus Engine games. I'd recommend Westlands for being potentially closest to what you want, but there's 1520: HRE for historical games (I want:tongue:!), and Blades of Tyri for planetary romance...:shade:


Of course, BoL is evergreen, too - or Everywhen if you want something closer to Baldur's Gate and need to homebrew some stuff...



I see you knew exactly what you were going to get, and wanted something else for a change:thumbsup:!
I love Mythras/Runequest rule system (never truly experience play in the setting of the latter, sadly)
 
I love Mythras/Runequest rule system (never truly experience play in the setting of the latter, sadly)
Well, but you specified roll-high, which explicitly means those are out:thumbsup:.


Also, I just finished editing that post, it seems you had read an older version of it. It has some new recommendations now:grin:!
 
Well, there is Fudge although some assembly is required.

want to see a fantasy game that is:
  • roll high - Yes
  • Class-Less - Yes
  • Level-less - Yes
I have my own Majestic Realms RPG for Fudge take here (just a free download). I highly recommend using d6-d6 if you do use instead of Fudge Dice.

I recommend this

And this


And these two are powered by Fudge

Amazon product

 
Vagabonds of Dyfed is OSR-adjacent and is class-less but not level-less. Just lists of skills and talents that can be taken as you like. It uses the PbtA style 2d6 as its base mechanic but without the bloat that characterized Dungeon World (or most of the other mechanics that tend to populate actual PbtA games.. It's got s couple of sweet adventuring location supplements as well. It's a slick system.
 
Roll high fantasy says Rolemaster except there are classes. They affect the cost of skills so your wizard can still learn to use a sword. Palladium fantasy has the same problem of having classes. Still a very robust combat system and some neat magic systems in first edition. Avoid second edition unless you think the rules from Rifts are a good idea. Tunnels and Trolls is certainly roll high. A bit weird maybe and there are classes though they're Fighter, Wizard, and Rogue and mainly determine how the character interacts with magic, that being not at all, a little bit, and to the exclusion of all else. I've got a couple fantasy games of my own but they have classes and levels and are roll low.
 
Fantasy Hero? It's classless, roll high for effect. Skill system is normally roll under but is easy enough to switch to roll high which we did for our last campaign.
 
Well, converting Mythras to roll high is just as easy, you know...:shade:

Sometimes our favourite systems just ain't what the OP is looking for:thumbsup:.
 
Well, converting Mythras to roll high is just as easy, you know...:shade:

Sometimes our favourite systems just ain't what the OP is looking for:thumbsup:.
Hero is far from my favourite system, not as far as GURPS though! Not many classless fantasy games on my shelf and none that are roll high AND classless.

Savage Worlds I think is the only other one on my shelf that would fit.
 
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You should take a gander at ICRPG. If you squint your eyes and tilt your head, you might say it has classes, but that's only in the vaguest possible terms. It's a roll-high system flexible enough to tackle any fantasy subgenre. I'm using it to run a game set in the last Ice Age.
 
Here is my questionable list of RPGs that might qualify:

Ars Magica: Like, it's kinda all about those Magi, but Companions make for great adventurers too.
Donjon: Maybe too loosey-goosey narrative, etc.
Dying Earth: Maybe too much about Dying Earth stuff.
Exalted?: Exalted is a particular thing, but it's fantasy
Legendary Lives 2e
Prince Valiant?: Every character is by default assumed to be a knight though.
Reign?
Sorcerers of Ur Turuk: Kinda like a d6 Ars Magica, likewise maybe too Sorcerer focused.
The Shadow of Yesterday
The Sword of Cepheus: It's fantasy Traveller. Are careers classes? Maybe kinda.
Sword Chronicle
Sword Noir
Tales of Gor: Looks pretty d6 based, but it's maybe too Gor.
Tribe 8: It's Dream Pod 9s Silhouette system, but maybe too setting particular.
Trophy Gold
Warrior, Rogue & Mage: You don't have a class, instead they are kinda your attributes
 
Right now, I'm so burned out on D&D, D&D assumptions, and anything D&D like, except Baldur's Gate 3, but as I play it and realize this is a heavily house-ruled, stacked against the PC's mess (unlike BG1 and 2 IMHO, yes different developers blah blah) that I want to see a fantasy game that is: roll high, Class-Less, Level-less (No 'rank'/'circle' or other stand in for class level that means 'overall character power in everything')

Everyone is going to be recommending their favorite system and trying to shoehorn it into what you're asking for, even if it doesn't apply. It's gamer nature.

I've been searching for the "perfect system" for a long time. I found it for myself, but it's going to be different from person to person.

I have a couple questions, though, before I make any tentative recommendation (or none at all):

1) How much overhead do you want?

5E is complicated. There's a lot of overhead. For the GM, for sure. For the players, a bit less, but it's still there. Yeah, the basic mechanic is simple. But you have consider the ins and outs, the maze of exceptions and confusing interpretations, custom house rules per table. It's not easy. But we ease into that stuff and don't notice it after a while.

The complexity is there because D&D supports a tactical experience as well as a storytelling experience. You can argue about the extent to which each is supported and how successfully, but that's their goal. Do you need that level of tactical overhead, in both chargen and in actual play?

2) When you say "class-less, level-less" in defiance of power level... what does that mean for the type of game you want to play?

Are you in search of epic, low, heroic, or grimdark? Do you want to be able to mix different power levels, like an epic leader with cannon-fodder minions? Are you going to assemble a setting yourself based on how the system feels or hope for and rely on a packaged setting?
 
Everyone is going to be recommending their favorite system and trying to shoehorn it into what you're asking for, even if it doesn't apply. It's gamer nature.

I've been searching for the "perfect system" for a long time. I found it for myself, but it's going to be different from person to person.

I have a couple questions, though, before I make any tentative recommendation (or none at all):

1) How much overhead do you want?

5E is complicated. There's a lot of overhead. For the GM, for sure. For the players, a bit less, but it's still there. Yeah, the basic mechanic is simple. But you have consider the ins and outs, the maze of exceptions and confusing interpretations, custom house rules per table. It's not easy. But we ease into that stuff and don't notice it after a while.

The complexity is there because D&D supports a tactical experience as well as a storytelling experience. You can argue about the extent to which each is supported and how successfully, but that's their goal. Do you need that level of tactical overhead, in both chargen and in actual play?

2) When you say "class-less, level-less" in defiance of power level... what does that mean for the type of game you want to play?

Are you in search of epic, low, heroic, or grimdark? Do you want to be able to mix different power levels, like an epic leader with cannon-fodder minions? Are you going to assemble a setting yourself based on how the system feels or hope for and rely on a packaged setting?
1) Less overhead is better but there are some games I find too light.

2) Yes generally I like epic, low, and heroic, generally good with all of them. Grimdark depends on my mood too much (like I appreciate Warhammer RPG 1E very much! Although I no longer have a copy)

I don't mind pre-made settings, albeit I've got a few settings of my own I wouldn't mind fighting a home for. Generally, I like an equitable spread of power among the PC's, but if the game allows a leader PC with NPC(ish) minions? That's cool too.
 
Right now, I'm so burned out on D&D, D&D assumptions, and anything D&D like, except Baldur's Gate 3, but as I play it and realize this is a heavily house-ruled, stacked against the PC's mess (unlike BG1 and 2 IMHO, yes different developers blah blah) that I want to see a fantasy game that is: roll high, Class-Less, Level-less (No 'rank'/'circle' or other stand in for class level that means 'overall character power in everything')


Alas, this puts Mythras/BRP/Runequest right out due to the whole roll under percentile thing.
I'm going out on a limb and suggest Faery's Tale from Green Ronin, currently on sale at Drivethru. If you're up for lite.
 
1) Less overhead is better but there are some games I find too light.

2) Yes generally I like epic, low, and heroic, generally good with all of them. Grimdark depends on my mood too much (like I appreciate Warhammer RPG 1E very much! Although I no longer have a copy)

I don't mind pre-made settings, albeit I've got a few settings of my own I wouldn't mind fighting a home for. Generally, I like an equitable spread of power among the PC's, but if the game allows a leader PC with NPC(ish) minions? That's cool too.

Warlock! by Fire Ruby Designs, seems to fit your criteria. Might show up on Bundle of Holding again. This one has a LOT of splat/support material you may want to filter out.

I'd like to recommend Undying Lands, by Valent Games. Unfortunately, it's designed, at first glance, to be more of a roll under game, but it's NOT. It works on a range-matching principle. Kinda clever. PWYW on DTRPG, and the rules are pretty short, so hey, worth a look?

Anything else I might recommend feels like it would be too simplistic or significantly off-target.
 
Well, there is Fudge although some assembly is required.

want to see a fantasy game that is:
  • roll high - Yes
  • Class-Less - Yes
  • Level-less - Yes
I have my own Majestic Realms RPG for Fudge take here (just a free download). I highly recommend using d6-d6 if you do use instead of Fudge Dice.

I recommend this

And this


And these two are powered by Fudge

Amazon product



If we're taling Fudge, there is Fudge Hack-n-Slash, an oldie modelled on D&D but without classes, or my own Polar Fudge Medieval Adventures which has, among other things, the virture of being free. I've been running a campaign with it for a year now, which to be honest surprises even me.
 
Assuming you're sticking to fantasy I'm going to suggest Houses of the Blooded but the system is massively different to 'roll high'. Also you might want to consider Earthdawn, DnD tropes deconstructed but I couldn't tell you a thing about the system.
 
I don't think I'm going to roast anyone for suggesting games that they are familiar with that it the bill presented in the OP. That's not really the same as stumping for your favorite game IMO, and I thought this thread had been nicely clear of any such proselytizing.

Another game that actually ticks all the boxes in the OP is Trophy Gold. No classes, no levels. I've played it quite a bit and enjoy the system a lot.
 
I did start noodly with a 'classless' and 'level-less' D&D idea (same stats, saves similar to 3E, but four), you have one class "Adventurer" sort of as it's really an excuse to build what you want with XP purchases. But I'm tired (lazy but because of life being a pain.)

I admit I like Earthdawn but its big on classes and levels. Isn't Warlock! Roll Under? As are all Advanced Fighting Fantasy derivatives?
 
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