Star Wars Appendix N

[TristramEvans]

So I was recently reading through my West End Games Star Wars RPG 1e books, as they were on my mind following the Mandalorian finale and several conversations here at The Pub, and I noted something interesting. The Star Wars sourcebook has a bibliography of sorts, what essentially amounts to the sources of "canon" at the time of it's writing:




So, obviously there's the original trilogy of films, and then the novelizations of the original trilogy. But what's interesting is there is also six novels, three Han Solo-themed, and three Lando-themed. I've never heard of any of the novels before, and have no idea if they are still in print or still considered canon or were lost with the EU. The Han Solo books were apparently being written before the trilogy was even completed. The various sketch books are pretty typical behind-the-scenes publications, but I am curious what Velasco's "A Guide to the Star Wars Universe" contained - if it was just limited to info from the films or it expanded on certain subjects at the author's liberty like David Day's Tolkien encyclopedia or the Dune Encyclopedia.

What's almost as interesting as what is included is what is not included, though. Splinter of the Mind's Eye is right out. Naturally, no mention of the Holiday special. But there's other significant omissions. The 1st edition of the Star Wars RPG came out in 1987, so after both Ewok films (Caravan of Courage in 1984, and Battle for Endor in 1985), no mention of the Droids or Ewoks animated series (1985), and the long-running Star Wars comicbook series is also absent.

 

[Endless Flight]

The Solo and Calrissian novels are considered “legends” by Disney after the purchase. Bits and pieces of them may be placed back into canon at some point.

 

[TristramEvans]

The Solo and Calrissian novels are considered “legends” by Disney after the purchase. Bits and pieces of them may be placed back into canon at some point.

Have you read them? Know if they contain any significant new info that would have been incorprated into the RPG?

 

[Endless Flight]

I found this on Twitter. It’s an entry from the Guide. I believe it just uses the movies.



There were second and third editions of the Guide. Bill Slavicsek did those.

 

[finarvyn]

I read those back in the day. At least two of the Han Solo books were published prior to ESB, so we used them as part of my old OD&D Star Wars campaign. They have been reprinted several times (mine are hardback SFBC copies, I think).

Amazon product

I didn't like the Lando books as much.

Amazon product

Amazon says that both were reprinted as late as the 1990's and sometimes I see them in used bookstores.

West End games also put out a sourcebook based on the Han Solo books. Brian Daly built up a neat background for a "Corporate Sector" and it made for a fun place to run adventures.

 

[TristramEvans]

Huh, it's funny how that entry lines up with the Prequels moreso than the info presented in the films. But then, we knew Obi-Wan was fond of bending the truth...

 

[finarvyn]

Have you read them? Know if they contain any significant new info that would have been incorprated into the RPG?

As I noted in my other post, the Corporate Sector sourcebook for WEG Star Wars was kind of neat. I can't recall any new mechanics overall, but some nice background.

 

[Endless Flight]

Have you read them? Know if they contain any significant new info that would have been incorprated into the RPG?

No, I’ve never been one of those folks who’s read a ton of Star Wars book. I’ve learned more from guides and Wookieepedia than I ever did reading the novels.

 

[Lofgeornost]

I think I read at least the first of the Han Solo adventures back when they were published. My vague memory is that it was O.K., but that I'd enjoyed Daley's Coramonde books more.

The three Daley novels have their own Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Han_Solo_Adventures

 

[The Butcher]

What a wasted opportunity to look into the roots of the franchise. Serious Star Wars fans owe it to themselves to look into Westerns and samurai movies (Hidden Fortress, at least). That’s the “Appendix N” I’d like to see!

 

[TristramEvans]

add "Lone Wolf and Cub" to that list if you liked The Mandalorian at all

 

[Endless Flight]

What a wasted opportunity to look into the roots of the franchise. Serious Star Wars fans owe it to themselves to look into Westerns and samurai movies (Hidden Fortress, at least). That’s the “Appendix N” I’d like to see!

People should look into Westerns anyway. One of the greatest genres of movies ever. It’s a shame that Westerns have kind of fallen out of favor after folks like Eastwood stopped making them. He decided he couldn’t top Unforgiven so why bother again. It may be the greatest Western ever.

 

[zarion]

Daley's Han Solo novels were some of my favorite Star Wars novels. Personally I think they were also some of the best Star Wars novels. I'll admit that I'm not a fan of the new Disney Star Wars stuff, but the old EU wasn't all that great either. Mostly I'm amused by how much Disney has just lifted straight from the old EU. Makes me wonder why they didn't just keep the old EU as canon, though it wasn't as cheesy as Disney stuff is, so that could be why.

But, yeah, I always loved the Han Solo novels. Some of the best old EU stuff, up there with the early X-Wing books, and the Heir to the Empire Trilogy.

 

[zarion]

People should look into Westerns anyway. One of the greatest genres of movies ever. It’s a shame that Westerns have kind of fallen out of favor after folks like Eastwood stopped making them. He decided he couldn’t top Unforgiven so why bother again. It may be the greatest Western ever.

I thought Hell on Wheels was superb!

 

[Necrozius]

Are we talking only about Star Wars books? As Endless Flight said, such an Appendix should be full of media from Westerns (especially Spaghetti Westerns), Samurai films (Yojimbo and Zatoichi!!) and even some Chinese Wuxia stuff. Perhaps a dose of Moebius and Jodorowsky!

 

[Necrozius]

People should look into Westerns anyway. One of the greatest genres of movies ever. It’s a shame that Westerns have kind of fallen out of favor after folks like Eastwood stopped making them. He decided he couldn’t top Unforgiven so why bother again. It may be the greatest Western ever.

I'm hoping that we eventually get a Star Wars take on the Unforgiven (or other stories about retired "heroes" who have lost their shining glory but are spurred into action again). There's something really appealing to me about such stories. Characters who were once powerful and even famous, living a simple lifestyle where they've lost everything (perhaps willingly). Logan was a bit like that too. One of the Earthsea books as well (the protagonist Ged, once a world-shaking Archmage, had lost his powers and was living as a farmer).

edit: Here's hoping that the new Obi Wan show taps into this a little!

 

[Trippy]

So I was recently reading through my West End Games Star Wars RPG 1e books, as they were on my mind following the Mandalorian finale and several conversations here at The Pub, and I noted something interesting. The Star Wars sourcebook has a bibliography of sorts, what essentially amounts to the sources of "canon" at the time of it's writing:

View attachment 25676


So, obviously there's the original trilogy of films, and then the novelizations of the original trilogy. But what's interesting is there is also six novels, three Han Solo-themed, and three Lando-themed. I've never heard of any of the novels before, and have no idea if they are still in print or still considered canon or were lost with the EU. The Han Solo books were apparently being written before the trilogy was even completed. The various sketch books are pretty typical behind-the-scenes publications, but I am curious what Velasco's "A Guide to the Star Wars Universe" contained - if it was just limited to info from the films or it expanded on certain subjects at the author's liberty like David Day's Tolkien encyclopedia or the Dune Encyclopedia.

What's almost as interesting as what is included is what is not included, though. Splinter of the Mind's Eye is right out. Naturally, no mention of the Holiday special. But there's other significant omissions. The 1st edition of the Star Wars RPG came out in 1987, so after both Ewok films (Caravan of Courage in 1984, and Battle for Endor in 1985), no mention of the Droids or Ewoks animated series (1985), and the long-running Star Wars comicbook series is also absent.

There is also the Radio Drama series, nominally based upon the original trilogy movies, but expanded out with several extra scenes.

 

[Nobby-W]

Daley's Han Solo novels were some of my favorite Star Wars novels. Personally I think they were also some of the best Star Wars novels. I'll admit that I'm not a fan of the new Disney Star Wars stuff, but the old EU wasn't all that great either. Mostly I'm amused by how much Disney has just lifted straight from the old EU. Makes me wonder why they didn't just keep the old EU as canon, though it wasn't as cheesy as Disney stuff is, so that could be why.

But, yeah, I always loved the Han Solo novels. Some of the best old EU stuff, up there with the early X-Wing books, and the Heir to the Empire Trilogy.

I have a soft spot for the Daley novels as well, although I'll argue Heir To the Empire did a better job of capturing a Star Wars look and feel. I think the decision to de-canonise the EU was more political than anything else. Abrams et. al. wanted to do their own thing without stirring up endless canon-wars on the interwebs - or having to slog through it to make sure they didn't clash. The EU is not exactly a model of consistency and there's quite a lot of it.

 

[TJS]

Are we talking only about Star Wars books? As Endless Flight said, such an Appendix should be full of media from Westerns (especially Spaghetti Westerns), Samurai films (Yojimbo and Zatoichi!!) and even some Chinese Wuxia stuff. Perhaps a dose of Moebius and Jodorowsky!

Yes. But also add a side of World War 2 movies as well. That's a genre that's not so well remembered but is absolutely fundamental. Watch Dambusters, the Battle of Britian and the Guns of Navaronne.

Edit: I think this fusion of genres that the audience had grown up with into one package is probably what best explains Stars Wars' breakout success and appeal.

More so then any of that Joseph Campbell Hero's Journey crap anyway.

 

[David Johansen]

One of the Earthsea books as well (the protagonist Ged, once a world-shaking Archmage, had lost his powers and was living as a farmer).

Magic or no, Ged, was still on a first name basis with the arch mage, high king, and the creator.

I read one of the Han Solo books, I can't recall being excited enough to seek out the others.

 

[Simon Hogwood]

But what's interesting is there is also six novels, three Han Solo-themed, and three Lando-themed. I've never heard of any of the novels before, and have no idea if they are still in print or still considered canon or were lost with the EU.

The Solo and Calrissian novels are considered “legends” by Disney after the purchase. Bits and pieces of them may be placed back into canon at some point.

I believe at least one of the Lando novels got a callout in that scene in Solo when Lando is dictating his memoirs.

 

[TristramEvans]

I keep forgetting there was a Han Solo film

 

[Endless Flight]

I keep forgetting there was a Han Solo film

I think it’s remembered more for the Darth Maul cameo than anything else.

 

[David Johansen]

I keep forgetting there was a Han Solo film

Lando was great in that one!

 

[Endless Flight]

Donald Glover is good in it. It just doesn’t have it.

 

[David Johansen]

There are great bits in Solo it just doesn't really hold together probably because there are painfully dumb bits in Solo. Between Rise of Skywalker and Solo, I think someone at Disney desperately wants to make a Warhammer 40000 movie. Which is anathema to everything Star Wars is about.

I loved Correlia and the ship yards. I loved the space port scene. Lando and his capes (that's a lot of capes). Han's lost love. The raiders that turn out to be rebels. I didn't love hyperfuel, space krackens, silly droid rebellion, Darth Maul being back. There's also a lot of meh in there where you wonder why they bothered.

 

[Endless Flight]

I think it was originally intended to be a comedy but ended up morphing into an action film. Directorial changes and all that.

 

[Voros]

I liked the Solo film. I have the Daley Solo book 'trilogy' (thankfully I believe they are all stand alone) on my Kindle to read and I found one of the Lando paperbacks for a reasonable price used.

In terms of inspirations for Star Wars, the Flash Gordon (with the great Alex Raymond) and Buck Rogers comic strips and film serials and Leigh Brackett's space opera and science fantasy seem clear enough references. Brackett had quite the rep as a screenwriter due to her work on The Big Sleep for Hawks and The Long Goodbye for Altman.

Look at how beautiful these Raymond panels are!




The Buck Rogers strip are primitive by comparison but have a surreal charm and plenty of energy.



Leia is probably partially based on Burroughs as the archtype of the Space Princess but I've gotta think Brackett's strong romantic streak and melancholy red and purple desert visions of Mars were also a big inspiration.



One of the few things I liked that Lucas changed or more exactly added to THX 1138 (which I still consider his best film) is a little intro with a clip from a Buck Rogers serial.

 

[TristramEvans]

Valerian, the long-running French scifi comic that also inspired the Fifth element, was a big influence on Star Wars as well. I've heard tell that Kirby's Doctor Doom was one of the inspirations for Darth Vader, at least in appearance, but I don't know if that was ever confirmed.

 

[Trippy]

Valerian, the long-running French scifi comic that also inspired the Fifth element, was a big influence on Star Wars as well. I've heard tell that Kirby's Doctor Doom was one of the inspirations for Darth Vader, at least in appearance, but I don't know if that was ever confirmed.

There is a Valerian movie too now, also directed by Fifth Element director, Luc Besson.

 

[TristramEvans]

Yeah, but I boycotted it because it's part of the ongoing trend of Hollywood replacing redheaded characters



I'm sorry Mila Jojovich broke up with you Besson, but that's no excuse for turning a redhead blonde

 

[Endless Flight]

Mary Jane will always be a redhead to me!

 

[TristramEvans]

That one is the worst for me personally. I haven't even watched the last Tom Holland Spidey film because of it.

And I had to turn off the newest Hellboy 15 minutes in - but it was kinda just awful anyways.

 

[E-Rocker]

I read the Han Solo trilogy and the Lando trilogy when they were reprinted in the mid-90s.

I don't recall anything specific about them- just that I was excited to find them, but had somewhat of a sense of disappointment once I actually read them.

 

[David Johansen]

That one is the worst for me personally. I haven't even watched the last Tom Holland Spidey film because of it.

And I had to turn off the newest Hellboy 15 minutes in - but it was kinda just awful anyways.

Y'know, I don't really have a problem with casting Mary Jane as a black girl, but I wonder why they couldn't just have Peter dating a black girl who wasn't Mary Jane.

 

[Endless Flight]

Y'know, I don't really have a problem with casting Mary Jane as a black girl, but I wonder why they couldn't just have Peter dating a black girl who wasn't Mary Jane.

This has been a problem in the comic book business for years. Recycle, recycle, recycle.

 

[TristramEvans]

Y'know, I don't really have a problem with casting Mary Jane as a black girl, but I wonder why they couldn't just have Peter dating a black girl who wasn't Mary Jane.

Yeah, Pete's dated a lot of women over the years. They could use one of the black girls he actually dated or come up with a new character and I'd be fine.

 

[zarion]

This has been a problem in the comic book business for years. Recycle, recycle, recycle.

All media!

Do you know how many King Arthur's I've read/watched? A lot! Like, friggin hundreds!

As I said upthread, half (or more)of the stuff I've seen in the new Disney Wars is recycled old EU stuff. Thrawn, the Witches of Dathomir, the Emperor Reborn, all recycled.

Some recycling ends up good, like Moore's Battlestar, some is bad, like the endless comic book origin story remakes.

There are only twelve stories!!!

 

[Rogerdee]

No, I’ve never been one of those folks who’s read a ton of Star Wars book. I’ve learned more from guides and Wookieepedia than I ever did reading the novels.

Some of the EU books are really good, but for the most part read like terrible fan fiction. I know Karen Traviss acquired the nickname Travissty with some of the awful shite she wrote.

Yoda: Dark Rendezvous is brilliant, and talks about if Yoda were ever to go full dark side, he would crush Palpatine like a gnat. Which may have been true in OT or PT era, but as of ST - Palpatine is close to EU levels.

 

[Rogerdee]

I think someone at Disney desperately wants to make a Warhammer 40000 movie. Which is anathema to everything Star Wars is about.

You know it actually could work, either in the far future, or an alternate universe. Sidious becomes God Emperor from gribblies in hyperspace. I am toying with this idea for a fantasy idea of mine, where Chaos is replaced with an opening to hyperspace which is akin to 40k / Babylon 5 - and things live there just like in Babylon 5 EU.

Darth Maul being back

Honestly., if you have not watched Clone Wars CGI animated series, it is great and exactly what I wanted Star Wars to be. Jedi as badasses, whereas in the films they're somewhat wimpy..and I felt the same too initially with Darth Maul, but his stary arc actually turned into so much awesome.

That one is the worst for me personally. I haven't even watched the last Tom Holland Spidey film because of it.

And I had to turn off the newest Hellboy 15 minutes in - but it was kinda just awful anyways.

Tom Holland Spiderman is actually rather good, new Hellboy, not so much. Ron Pearlman with always be the Beast, and Hellboy - no one else can ever take on those roles.