Starship combat in RPGs

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How have you handled it? What systems do it well, and more importantly, how do they do it well?

A little background: the first game I ever ran was a Savage Worlds space opera game. For the first few sessions, I would include a starship combat encounter, but I always felt like those encounters kinda sucked and weren't much fun. Pretty soon I gave up on starship combat and the PCs' ship became essentially a taxi that ferried them from Adventure Planet of the Week to Adventure Planet of the Week.

By the way, I don't think this was necessarily a failure of the Savage Worlds system: very likely the problem was just me having no effing clue what I was doing.

So, please give me your takes on making starship combat fun!
 
There is a balance to be had between realism and practical game-ability, I think.

Traveller was, I think, the first game that had any starship combat in it - and the classic system is quite technical, abstracted to a degree, and at least considers scientific concepts like vectors and gravity within it. When you get to WEG Star Wars, the emphasis is to make an expressly cinematic experience - where there are still mechanical rolls - but they are done simply to create dramatic experiences. I think it is notable that the most recent Mongoose Traveller 2 rules are arguably closer to the Star Wars approach - albeit keeping the terminology of the Classic Traveller game - because the mechanics are more about creating a fast, intuitive play experience.

For me, the key thing about any space combat system is that every player gets a role to play - whether it is piloting, gunning or engineering (and repairing!). As long as players get something to do, I think its a good system, regardless of the precepts of how it is all supposed to work.
 
Trippy said:
For me, the key thing about any space combat system is that every player gets a role to play - whether it is piloting, gunning or engineering (and repairing!). As long as players get something to do, I think its a good system, regardless of the precepts of how it is all supposed to work.
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This is a good point. It's been long enough that the details of the game I talked about in the OP are hazy, but I recall that part of the problem was we started with 3 players, which meant one would pilot, one would shoot, and one would repair, but pretty soon we got two more players and then I wasn't sure how to keep everyone involved.
 
For me it's FFG Star Wars. I like how it has built-in systems for people to do other things than fly or shoot. Your computer specialist can contribute by using electronic warfare systems, or a defensive slicer is useful to fend off the same. Doing things like shutting down an enemy's shields, messing with their targeting computers and so on helps keep everyone involved. The engineer can try to squeeze the most out of the ship's system or help mitigate and repair damaged systems. It's the first one I've played that felt like I could keep everyone involved in a meaningful way. Not saying there aren't other systems out there that do it or do it better but it's just the first one I've ran into that feels right.

Not saying it's the perfect system, though. Someone has created a document to handle some of the mechanics better than RAW. I've found it is a definite improvement.
 
Okay, so, Galaxies In Shadow has three methods available. Cartesian plane in three dimensions, sixty degree vector where you need thrust equal to your current vector to move your end point one hex, and of course, space opera flight in a fluid medium.

Oh well, I like the GURPS Space Opera Combat system for an abstract game. Traveller Book 2 is fun if you've got space for it. I think from a practical game play point of view Space Master Privateers actually nailed it. Abstract movement, not too many stats for the ships Armor Type, defensive bonus, hit points, weapons and offensive bonus from sensors. Critical hits give you the interesting results without having vehicle control sheets or a lot of structured damage information.

I have played FFG Star Wars and WEG Star Wars. Not really a big fan but, I do think that using Star Fleet Battles or Battle Tech tends to be overkill as most rpg groups are more interested in focusing on their characters rather than the tech.
 
A few years ago, I wanted to try something different, to see how the Metahumans Rising engine would handle supers in space. We developed this world where the earth was consumed by a sentient nano-hive and the PCs were refugees on a stolen alien spaceship looking for a home for human colonists on Mars. The heroes were high powered, think on par with the DCEU Justice League, and began with a capital ship that they didn't know much about but were able to get running, along with the help of the rest of the crew. Important note, there was no PC captain, but with a collective goal, they had agency in the command decisions.

To build used the background Character rules, which the book includes a few examples for making vehicles using, just not at this scale. We wanted to make roles on the ship important so different sections of the ship were assigned various templates corresponding with their role. For example: Engineering was an all around support location that could help boost weapons, shields, or piloting, where as the helm would make Active Defense rolls for the ship, and the artillery banks would handle attacks.

The campaign mixed space battles with action on planets and space stations. Also, being superheroes the PCs had to make some interesting choices, do they stay in the ship, or do they get out and try to engage a threat directly. A great example of this was our engineer would survive in vacuum and was super strong. After a hull breach in another section of the ship, he had to decide if we wanted to stay in engineering to coordinate help, or get out and try to repair the hole from the outside.

After what could have been our campaign's climax I wrote down the events here if anyone's interested:
 
E-Rocker said:
Can you give us a rough idea of how it works?
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Sure, basically it plays out like this -

Players tend to be either Pilots, manning the gun stations, or operating the shields. Some can be on standby to attempt ship repairs when damaged.

Range is classified as Long, Medium, and Close. Ships always enter combat at long range

First, each pilot declares what they are attempting to do that round,
If both pilots want to close, the range is reduced by one
If both pilots want to withdraw, the range is increased by one (if it exceeeds Long range, the combat is over(
If one pilot tries to close and the other withdraw, , both roll based on their ship's Speed rating. The winner determines the effect - range reduced or increased by one.

After the range has been determined for the round, players can fire, evade using their piloting skill, and/or use shields

  • Firing uses the Gunnery skill plus the ship's fire control code, and is treated the same as an attack in combat, with Damage applied to the ship's Hull rating.
  • Missiles are a special type of attack that don't use the gunnery skill, but are only effective at short-range and completely ineffective against Shields
  • Evasion uses the Piloting skill, and is handled the same as a Dodge in melee combat - increasing the difficulty of a hit
  • A player operating the Shields can make a roll to deflect an attack, the difficulty depending on the range between opponents. A successful shield roll absorbs the attack Damage, but the Shield rating is degraded
There's a few other wrinkles, but that's pretty much it IIRC - it's overall handled much the same as hand-to-hand combat and played fast and loose.
 
jay said:
Not saying it's the perfect system, though. Someone has created a document to handle some of the mechanics better than RAW. I've found it is a definite improvement.
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Do you know how weird it is that I find the house rules I made 5 years ago still regularly get referenced by people in the FFG Star Wars communities. I saw it mentioned on reddit not long ago, too.

I'm glad people are getting use out of them though! I haven't played FFG star wars in a while, but I'm still happy with how the changes I made fixed up the space combat (especially because before holy hell were starfighters shafted, they were just deathtraps with the rules as written. I think they designed the game around the expected things for Edge of the Empire: having space transports as the main PC ship, which did fair better in the original rules, though I still wasn't that happy with it).
 
Ashen Stars had a few interesting ideas as well (each crew member/PC having a role both planetside and "spaceside"). Beside piloting and shooting you had damage control and hacking/electronic warfare. As it was based on the Gumshoe system it wasn't too complex.

For me the tricky thing is to have a system where all players can have fun but also one where the GM isn't supposed to do alone for an NPC ship what the players do as a team (Coriolis I'm looking at you). So basically rules for the players and rules for the GM. YMMV of course.

I also had the ship's AIs do the fighting because humans are too slow/stupid for the realities of space combat. Yeah, a bit of a cop out but the players could still influence the AI decisions by setting objectives and being good cheerleaders.

But there's a lot of ground to cover, between the WWII-like dogfights of Star Wars and the weeks-long dodge maneuvers of Forever war.
 
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Honestly always thought it would be cool if someone adapted the kind of wings of glory/x-wing miniatures style combat to a tabletop RPG.

It's probably way way too detailed for most players, but man it is a fun system that really feels like trying to outmaneuver people rather than just rolling dice and hitting.
 
Not sure i can add much here, the closest rules i have for starship battles are game i designed in the line of ffg x-wing or crimson skies. Theres always the Atomic Rockets page for some food for thought though, it goes in depth on how space works and the physical constraints of vacuum on warfare, propulsion, etc (hell, you name it, they probably have an in-depth page on it)

Atomic Rockets - Atomic Rockets

www.projectrho.com www.projectrho.com
 
EmperorNorton said:
Honestly always thought it would be cool if someone adapted the kind of wings of glory/x-wing miniatures style combat to a tabletop RPG.

It's probably way way too detailed for most players, but man it is a fun system that really feels like trying to outmaneuver people rather than just rolling dice and hitting.
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From what I know of the game, it doesn't seem terribly far off from Knighthawks
 
EmperorNorton said:
Honestly always thought it would be cool if someone adapted the kind of wings of glory/x-wing miniatures style combat to a tabletop RPG.
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EmperorNorton EmperorNorton LOL how did i miss this. I have an incredibly stripped down system: there are high-middle-low altitudes. Every fighter has a damage value, a hull value, and a fuel value. Every fighter starts at Middle altitude, must spend fuel to increase altitude, may Dive and increase Speed, which increases damage dealt and turn/bank radius by 1 per altitude dived. Shooting up decreases damage by 1 per altitude. Play it on a hex board with every move requiring you to move 2 spaces + current speed.

I guess you could give each fighter some form of gambit as well, or make pilots swappable between fighters and give them the gambit
 
I wonder if you could build an Ace of Aces style system into an rpg? Dawn Patrol used cards for maneuvers. But something where you both pick and reveal your maneuver and reveal simultaneously and get relative positions from that. Top Secret hand to hand combat?
 
David Johansen said:
I wonder if you could build an Ace of Aces style system into an rpg? Dawn Patrol used cards for maneuvers. But something where you both pick and reveal your maneuver and reveal simultaneously and get relative positions from that. Top Secret hand to hand combat?
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I'm not familiar with Ace of Aces, but I like the idea you've described here!
 
You had a booklet and a control sheet for each plane and you traded booklets with your opponent and when you crossreferenced the maneuvers on the chart it told you which page to turn to. Quite clever and fun. They also did some Battle Tech and Lost Worlds fantasy booklets.
 
Dream Park, while being a mediocre game, had a fantastic system for chases and dogfights that could easily be swiped for other systems.

Basically, opposed rolls give the relative positions that planes, ships, subs or whatever, are in on that particular turn. Appropriate actions can be taken amd combat continues.

It integrates perfectly with the D6 Star Wars system, adding just enough extra dimension to make fixed mounts vs turrets into a meaningful choice of design.
 
David Johansen said:
I wonder if you could build an Ace of Aces style system into an rpg? Dawn Patrol used cards for maneuvers. But something where you both pick and reveal your maneuver and reveal simultaneously and get relative positions from that. Top Secret hand to hand combat?
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That is how X-Wing Miniatures worked. You had a dial and you selected your maneuver on the dial, simultaneous reveal, then you used templates to move simultaneously.

Different ships had different dials based on their speed/maneuverability, this was the x-wing one:

X-wing_Dials.jpg

Movement templates:
startrekattackwing-maneuvers.jpg
 
Similar to Dawn Patrol, but I want the cross reference of maneuvers on a chart to produce a more abstract result. It's got me thinking.

I'm thinking about writing a science fiction rpg that people will actually want to play. Galaxies In Shadow is, well, too much for most people. Not to hard or too complex, just too much. I've forced it on people over the years but I gotta say the playtest isn't promising. I've got at least half a dozen false starts. And, I still like Space Master Privateers better. Which ain't right. Also, I've been toying with a vehicle design system that I think is more accessible for a couple years now. So, well, I'm thinking about an idea I'm having and I'll probably write it up and post it somewhere and promptly forget about it because that's how I roll.
 
I think the sweet spot does vary from person to person and group to group. I find Mongoose 2 to bit a bit too much for me, but Cepheus Light seems about right. I'd like to try Frontier Space as well....
 
David Johansen said:
I do think that using Star Fleet Battles or Battle Tech tends to be overkill as most rpg groups are more interested in focusing on their characters rather than the tech.
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Agreed, but there is something kind of neat about those SSD's with all of the boxes on them and when you take damage you can cross off specific boxes instead of vague "hit point" damage.

I've often thought about using a SFB style system to simulate Barsoomian airships, but have never gotten motivated enough to get it done. If someone did that professionally I would buy that game in a heartbeat. :grin:
 
Thanks for all the interesting feedback, folks!

Looks like there will be some starship combat coming up in my current Savage Worlds game, either in the next session or the one after that.

After looking up several ways to do Savage Worlds-specific starship combat, I have decided... I'm just gonna use the Dramatic Task rules. I feel like those would jive best with my GM-ing style in keeping the combat fast and exciting.
 
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Just posted a rough outline of Starship combat in ALIEN E E-Rocker :
www.rpgpub.com

Let's Read the ALIEN RPG

@Séadna I see there is no mention of artificial gravity, any suggestion on how to explain this to players? Something similar to Star Trek's "Gravity Plating?" We've been reviewing space horror movies on the Bedrock Podcast lately. When we reviewed Alien, @Azraele raised the question of how...
www.rpgpub.com www.rpgpub.com
 
I really enjoyed the spaceship combat of Coriolis. It worked and felt very much like the spaceship combat from the TV series the Expanse (haven't read the novels or played the Expanse RPG).

What's especially great about it is that it did a great job of giving different positions on the ship SOMETHING TO DO.

You have the Pilot. Engineer. Communications/EW. Gunners. and Captain.

Each position was important to each round of combat, even the captain who made decisions about where to allocate power and made leadership skill rolls that gave extra dice to different positions.

I was really impressed with it.
 
So, we finally got the starship combat in my Savage Worlds game last night. I ended up opting not to use the Dramatic Tasks rules. Instead, I ran it similar to a regular combat, treating each ship as a character.

In fairly short order, my players decided to do a boarding action, so once they were on board the bad guys' ship, we switched to fully normal combat rules.
 
I am surprised nobody mentioned Star Trek the Roleplaying Game. It had by far the best RPG starship combat system out there. The secret is that every player had something to do.

The key thing that made it work was the various tactical display sheets they had.

1613758504052.png

Each station had their own version and each players got chits to use.

1613758556589.png

Compared to Starfleet Battle it was simplistic but effective for an RPG. The fiddling of the tactical panels added to the verisimilitude as well as the team work required to fly the starship in combat. Each role was important and straightforward enough for most hobbyists to grasp.

If I ever wrote my own, I would do the same except tailored to the technology of the setting.

Star Trek the Roleplaying Game had the best stuff to use. Their tricorder interactive display effectively eliminated the parrot issue.

1613758843647.png

It worked by the referee calling out codes that the player would dial up. There was little bit of interpretation built in as well which added to the verisimilitude

The strips pictured below didn't work as well.
 
I was going to joke with, "Starfleet Battles!", but agree that the idea behind the ST: RPG was good (every PC has a role to play in starship combat).
 
robertsconley said:
I am surprised nobody mentioned Star Trek the Roleplaying Game. It had by far the best RPG starship combat system out there. The secret is that every player had something to do.

The key thing that made it work was the various tactical display sheets they had.

View attachment 26931

Each station had their own version and each players got chits to use.

View attachment 26932

Compared to Starfleet Battle it was simplistic but effective for an RPG. The fiddling of the tactical panels added to the verisimilitude as well as the team work required to fly the starship in combat. Each role was important and straightforward enough for most hobbyists to grasp.

If I ever wrote my own, I would do the same except tailored to the technology of the setting.

Star Trek the Roleplaying Game had the best stuff to use. Their tricorder interactive display effectively eliminated the parrot issue.

View attachment 26933

It worked by the referee calling out codes that the player would dial up. There was little bit of interpretation built in as well which added to the verisimilitude

The strips pictured below didn't work as well.
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The Tactical Combat Simulator was the best Trek ship to ship battle game.
 
It's been roughly a year since this thread, and the Pub has gotten some new members since then, so, newer folks, what is your preferred way of handling starship combat in RPGs?
 
Blammo said:
You know... I never even looked at the name. It's good work and thank you for doing it!
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I feel this happens a lot in this hobby. I once posted a homebrew 4e update of the darfellan race from D&D 3e (basically aquatic humans with orca colorations). Years later, I found out my rules and flavor take on the race ended up being a major part of a huge campaign run by some random dude I played with in a one-shot.
 
E-Rocker said:
It's been roughly a year since this thread, and the Pub has gotten some new members since then, so, newer folks, what is your preferred way of handling starship combat in RPGs?
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I avoid it like the Plague. Spaceship combat, like battlefield combat but even moreso, is boring and deadly, and affords little scope for roleplaying.

I have run a lot of games in a far future in which humanity has spread to the stars, but my setting is carefully specialised for adventures that take place on exotic planets that have colourful societies, and that involve conflicts no more important than would reasonably be left in the hands of a small group of PC types. Inexpensive interstellar travel is a necessary enabling device for such adventures, but player characters need to control a starship about as much and for the same reasons that Indiana Jones, James Bond, and Sherlock Holmes need their own airliners or armoured cruisers. (I love the Horatio Hornblower books nearly as much as Sherlock Holmes, but I don’t think they are as suitable to base RPGs on, because Hornblower is such a solitary character; command of a ship just doesn’t offer enough characterful things for more than one player to do. Characters such as the astrogator, the gunnery officer, the engineer, and the first lieutenant may be busy in combat, but their players have little to do that is character-driven and relevant to the excitement.)

I have run a few games about characters involved in interstellar exploration in armed survey vessels, inspired by the voyages of James Cook and bods like that. But in yhose I have always emphasised the adventures of the social scientists and planetary scientists on the ground, and the naval officers have always been secondary characters.

If I were to be tempted into running space opera instead of planetary romance, I think it would be by a space combat simulator or game that ran on a computer.
 
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Fenris-77 said:
I like make zooming and pew pew noises while I play with my pre-painted starships.
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I sit in my bathtub and attack them like the I'm the lava boss from Axelay.

n1DvtQ6.jpg
 
I think my favorite actual starship mini ruleset is Full Thrust. Very customizable and intuitive. And I did paint those figs myself.:grin:
 
Starship combat in RPGs has been something I've always found unsatisfying. I haven't used the SWN rules for that, and they look solid, so perhaps I'll finally have some rules I like. Most systems feel to abstract and gamey to me, although I appreciate that it's maybe not the easiest thing to write exciting and cinematic rules for.
 
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