Symbaroum for 5E?

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Picaroon Jack

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I'm not sure about this Free League Kickstarter.
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Why not just take Symbaroum's background material and incorporate it in to D&D5E yourself? I'm guessing this would be for the "custom rules, origins, classes, creatures and more."

I've not had enough coffee this morning because this is making me feel like a cranky old man. :coffee:
 

CRKrueger

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Well, Symbaroum is an incredible world tied to a unique system that expresses things a little differently. Example: All the attributes are adjectives instead of nouns. This seems to indicate that I’m better at doing something in this way rather than having a natural genetic ability. Players Roll, Time is in units of scenes, etc. Just a lot of New School Hoodoo that sometimes makes you wonder if they got the translation right.

5e, for all the D&D and WotC baggage, is a system everyone gets, even if they don’t want it, and it’s absurdly popular.

Can someone do a conversion themselves, sure. What standard 5e GM that you know is going to even know what Symbaroum is, let alone have the skill or inclination to do a complete conversion. To be fair, if they were that much of a do-it-yourselfer, there’s a good chance they’re not playing 5e.

If this gives Symbaroum legs as a setting and perhaps squeezes more verisimilar detail out of it, so much the better.
 
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Rogerdee

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Now we have PF for SW, it might be convertible reasonably easily, or it may not. There are some good settings in 5e that just need converting.
 

under_score

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Could be interesting. I got the Symbaroum pdf, I think when Free League was giving away the core pdf for most of their games, but haven't really looked at it much. Looks like a good setting but too full of "New School Hoodoo" to bother deciphering. 5e's pretty easy to convert to B/X and such, so this would make for a better entry even for non 5e players.
 

Rogerdee

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Symbaroum to 5e to Savage Pathfinder. That would make a big project.
I would have thought it shouldn't take too long, but I could easily be wrong.
But then again I play narrative based games so I would not need to convert all the rukes, just setting specific..
 

Skywalker

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Why not just take Symbaroum's background material and incorporate it in to D&D5E yourself? I'm guessing this would be for the "custom rules, origins, classes, creatures and more."
This will be the first FL KS I haven't backed in a long while as I really like the original ruleset just fine. However, I am also happy for Symbaroum as this will no doubt bring in lots of new fans

FWIW the quickstart they have released so far seems to show that they have hacked the hell out of 5e to make it fit into Symbaroum, much like Adventures In Middle Earth did for The One Ring. All original D&D classes, races and magic has been replaced with Symbaroum equivalents and corruption, resting, and magic all work like in Symbaroum rather than 5e.
 

TJS

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I suggest you have a look at the free preview. It makes some pretty important changes to how magic works that make it fit the setting a lot better. All the classses are new too. It's being given the Adventures in Middle Earth treatment.

And frankly the Symbaroum setting is basically D&D, just painted in a darker hue*, and the system that it comes with is just garbage anyway.

I'm not a big fan of 5e as a system, but in this case, especially with the changes they seem to be making, it's a distinct improvement.

*It has Clerics, Wizards, Druids etc.
 

Mankcam

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I have D&D 5E, but it's not the top of the pile for me.
However the core mechanics may be simple enough to port into other settings
I love AiME and that showed me that the D&D 5E mainframe can be a reasonable framework.

I have been skirting the edges of Symbaroum for some time, it looks really cool, but I am not sure if I have time to learn yet another rule set.
I would love to see something like this in BRP or Mythras; but if D&D 5E is the one that it gets converted to, then that'll work as a decent gateway for me.
I've backed Trudevang Adventures for pretty much the same reason.

I will flag this project whilst I'm considering backing or not...
 
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finarvyn

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Maybe this should be it's own thread, but I have zero knowledge about Symbaroum except that it's a Free League setting and in general I like everything else that I've seen that Free League has done. (Tales From the Loop, Vaesen, Alien, etc.)

Before I ponder which version I like best, I need to know something about (1) the setting and what makes it so cool, and (2) the original rules set and what makes it so cool. Armed with that information I could ponder a 5E version and if it's a good thing or not.

Can anyone give me a quick synopsis, or is that too complex a question for this thread?
 
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Jacob Rodgers

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Okay, I'll give it a try. (Since I'm deeply involved with the project, it sort of makes sense.) First off, here's the free preview: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/317720

If you're on the border or want to get a sense of what we did to make Symbaroum work in 5e, check it out. It has three origins (Goblin, Ambrian, Barbarian), three classes (mystic, scoundrel, warrior) and goes to level 6. It also comes with two adventures.

Symbaroum is a dark fantasy world. The primary 'viewpoint' characters (the Ambrians) had been gone from the main setting area for a long time, fighting the Dark Lords in the south, and finally winning at a terrible cost (they pretty much magically nuked the land) and then returned to the north. There's plenty of farmlands here, and after a few wars with the barbarians (i.e. the humans who didn't go south to the war) they've conquered most of the land. However, the rest of the area is dominated by a huge forest called Davokar. The forest is where those goblins that don't serve as menial labor for the humans live, along with trolls, ogres and elves and lots of other creatures. Long ago, there was an advanced magical empire with a capital city named Symbar that has since been swallowed by the forest. This means if you can brave the dangers of the forest, you might come across a ruin from the old empire and become staggeringly rich by recovering unknown treasures and knowledge. Or you can become staggeringly dead from ancient curses, traps, or present monsters and enemies.

There's much more, about how the elves remember an agreement called the Iron Pact that says the humans would stay away from the forest ruins (the humans claim they never agreed to it and raid the forest for artifacts anyway). About how all magic and sometimes even the land itself causes Corruption that can turn people and creatures into abominations. About how goblins don't die, but instead go into the forest to cocoon themselves and maybe turn into trolls (or ogres if the process goes wrong). About how the elves have phases of life and dormancy akin to the goblin -> troll lifecycle, aren't even from around here and hints that the forest is created thing, an effort at stopping great evil, and how the forest is waking up and being overwhelmed by said evil.

There will be a lot more information about the setting and the game when the Kickstarter begins.
 

CRKrueger

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Okay, I'll give it a try. (Since I'm deeply involved with the project, it sort of makes sense.) First off, here's the free preview: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/317720

If you're on the border or want to get a sense of what we did to make Symbaroum work in 5e, check it out. It has three origins (Goblin, Ambrian, Barbarian), three classes (mystic, scoundrel, warrior) and goes to level 6. It also comes with two adventures.

Symbaroum is a dark fantasy world. The primary 'viewpoint' characters (the Ambrians) had been gone from the main setting area for a long time, fighting the Dark Lords in the south, and finally winning at a terrible cost (they pretty much magically nuked the land) and then returned to the north. There's plenty of farmlands here, and after a few wars with the barbarians (i.e. the humans who didn't go south to the war) they've conquered most of the land. However, the rest of the area is dominated by a huge forest called Davokar. The forest is where those goblins that don't serve as menial labor for the humans live, along with trolls, ogres and elves and lots of other creatures. Long ago, there was an advanced magical empire with a capital city named Symbar that has since been swallowed by the forest. This means if you can brave the dangers of the forest, you might come across a ruin from the old empire and become staggeringly rich by recovering unknown treasures and knowledge. Or you can become staggeringly dead from ancient curses, traps, or present monsters and enemies.

There's much more, about how the elves remember an agreement called the Iron Pact that says the humans would stay away from the forest ruins (the humans claim they never agreed to it and raid the forest for artifacts anyway). About how all magic and sometimes even the land itself causes Corruption that can turn people and creatures into abominations. About how goblins don't die, but instead go into the forest to cocoon themselves and maybe turn into trolls (or ogres if the process goes wrong). About how the elves have phases of life and dormancy akin to the goblin -> troll lifecycle, aren't even from around here and hints that the forest is created thing, an effort at stopping great evil, and how the forest is waking up and being overwhelmed by said evil.

There will be a lot more information about the setting and the game when the Kickstarter begins.
Hi Jacob, thanks for answering. Will there be any new setting info in the 5e line, or will the 5e line basically mirror the original line in setting content?
 

Jacob Rodgers

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The original Symbaroum will lead the way. Ruins of Symbaroum is all about reaching folks who are interested in the setting, but aren't interested in the Symbaroum system for one reason or another.
 

Skywalker

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Can anyone give me a quick synopsis, or is that too complex a question for this thread?

In addition to the 5e Quickstart, there is a substantial 120pg quickstart for Symbaroum available for free as well: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/279090

My quick summary of why I personally like the original system is that it’s very much a hybrid of WFRP2e with a good amount of D&D5e, but simpler than both and with points buy for PC creation rather than classes or careers. That is very much my sweet spot for fantasy rulesets. I love WFRP2e but like the added flexibility Symbaroum brings, and I enjoy playing D&D5e but generally find it more complex than I can manage (I wouldn’t DM it except from prewritten adventures these days).
 
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TJS

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I have D&D 5E, but it's not the top of the pile for me.
However the core mechanics may be simple enough to port into other settings
I love AiME and that showed me that the D&D 5E mainframe can be a reasonable framework.

I have been skirting the edges of Symbaroum for some time, it looks really cool, but I am not sure if I have time to learn yet another rule set.
I would love to see something like this in BRP or Mythras; but if D&D 5E is the one that it gets converted to, then that'll work as a decent gateway for me.
I've backed Trudevang Adventures for pretty much the same reason.

I will flag this project whilst I'm considering backing or not...
Ok. It's not really Free League in origin it's Jarringen, another Swedish company who merged with Free League after the game was released. This is why the system it uses is nothing like any other Free League game.

The setting takes a lot of D&D type fantasy conceits but, as I indicated earlier, paints everything in a much darker hue and makes everything make a lot more sense. The things that really make the setting work is that it is small in scope and very rich. It revolves around a dark nordic forest. The central kingdom Ambria have fled a disastrous war and bult a new kingdom on the edge of the forest which they are expanding into bring them into conflict with the barbarian tribes and elves that live within the forest. The forest is also filled with ruins of the ancient kingdom of Symbaroum. What really sells it is not the basic idea but the richness of detail, and the nordic atmosphere that comes through in the art and setting details.

The system well...It has some good ideas, but ultimately it's yet another game with a half-finished system that no one ever playtested properly. I went into some issues here and here (I ran the game for a year and a half before putting it on the shelf because it simply no longer worked.)
 
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Rich H

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This is not remotely my thing as Symbaroum is absolutely fine as-is but Jacob has worked on Adventures in Middle-earth and Beowulf and both of these were incredibly well done conversions to 5e (from The One Ring with the former) and a 5e supplement (for the latter). He really does 'know his shit' with this stuff so I have no doubt he'll nail it and it will be awesome!
 
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finarvyn

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I decided to order the original-system Symbaroum starter set to get a better feel for the game (I wanted to order the Vaesen adventure book anyway) but if I play it long-term it would probably be by backing the 5E version. My group really likes 5E, so that would make more sense.
 

CRKrueger

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This is not remotely my thing as Symbaroum is absolutely fine as-is but Jacob has worked on Adventures in Middle-earth and Beowulf and both of these were incredibly well done conversions to 5e (from The One Ring with the former) and a 5e supplement (for the latter). He really does 'know his shit' with this stuff so I have no doubt he'll nail it and it will be awesome!
Well, here’s hoping that Symbaroum 5e is as good, and recognised, as the other two lines. :drink:
 

finarvyn

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I bought the starter set for the original version, and it's supposed to arrive in 2 days. When I look more at that I can decide better about the world. The 5E version sounds pretty cool, though!
 

Skywalker

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I bought the starter set for the original version, and it's supposed to arrive in 2 days. When I look more at that I can decide better about the world. The 5E version sounds pretty cool, though!

Are you aware that there is an extensive free Quickstart available on DTRPG that will let you check out the system and setting?
 

tenbones

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I'm looking forward to this so I can easily port it over to Savage Pathfinder.

/hit accelerator and peels out.
 

Voros

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Interview with one of the designers here, I'm getting tempted:
 

raniE

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I have D&D 5E, but it's not the top of the pile for me.
However the core mechanics may be simple enough to port into other settings
I love AiME and that showed me that the D&D 5E mainframe can be a reasonable framework.

I have been skirting the edges of Symbaroum for some time, it looks really cool, but I am not sure if I have time to learn yet another rule set.
I would love to see something like this in BRP or Mythras; but if D&D 5E is the one that it gets converted to, then that'll work as a decent gateway for me.
I've backed Trudevang Adventures for pretty much the same reason.

I will flag this project whilst I'm considering backing or not...
If a Swedish game isn't already BRP, it probably isn't being converted to it. BRP is in Sweden what D&D is in the US. And they're doing this to try to reach a new, hopefully big, audience. If you're already switching rule systems, might as well switch to the biggest one around that's bringing in all the new players at the moment.
 

raniE

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Ok. It's not really Free League in origin it's Jarringen, another Swedish company who merged with Free League after the game was released. This is why the system it uses is nothing like any other Free League game.

The setting takes a lot of D&D type fantasy conceits but, as I indicated earlier, paints everything in a much darker hue and makes everything make a lot more sense. The things that really make the setting work is that it is small in scope and very rich. It revolves around a dark nordic forest. The central kingdom Ambria have fled a disastrous war and bult a new kingdom on the edge of the forest which they are expanding into bring them into conflict with the barbarian tribes and elves that live within the forest. The forest is also filled with ruins of the ancient kingdom of Symbaroum. What really sells it is not the basic idea but the richness of detail, and the nordic atmosphere that comes through in the art and setting details.

The system well...It has some good ideas, but ultimately it's yet another game with a half-finished system that no one ever playtested properly. I went into some issues here and here (I ran the game for a year and a half before putting it on the shelf because it simply no longer worked.)
Yeah, but the two have been intertwined since forever anyway. Free League's big hit, Mutant, was a need edition of the game that brought Järnringen fame. Coriolis 1st edition was a Järnringen game as well, then Free League converted it to their in-house system. The two companies were co-operating on a lot of levels way before the merger.
 

TJS

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Yeah, but the two have been intertwined since forever anyway. Free League's big hit, Mutant, was a need edition of the game that brought Järnringen fame. Coriolis 1st edition was a Järnringen game as well, then Free League converted it to their in-house system. The two companies were co-operating on a lot of levels way before the merger.
Perhaps but there's a clear difference in approach in products I've seen. Free League games tend to be sandboxy and open while the Jarringen ones are very metaplotty in a 90s style with lots of setting secrets and a core adventure path.

Also Free League seem to have a better grasp of game mechanics.
 
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Jacob Rodgers

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Just a reminder that we're closing in on the last couple days of the Kickstarter. We've unlocked a lot of extra value, with a ton of adventures now included as digital rewards (physical books available as add-ons) and we're very close to getting a swanky slipcase for both the regular version of the books and the collector's edition.

 

Vidgrip

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Nah. I just compared this 5e version to the original to see how much of the kitchen sink was added to please the D&D crowd. The extra classes look fine. They seem to fit the setting. Adding five more intelligent species as playable races is not an improvement. This seems like a missed opportunity to introduce a tightly-focused setting to 5e, which despartely needs such settings.
 

Jacob Rodgers

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Nah. I just compared this 5e version to the original to see how much of the kitchen sink was added to please the D&D crowd. The extra classes look fine. They seem to fit the setting. Adding five more intelligent species as playable races is not an improvement. This seems like a missed opportunity to introduce a tightly-focused setting to 5e, which despartely needs such settings.

Up to you of course, but all of the Origins provided in Ruins of Symbaroum are integral to the setting (and quite different in many cases from their standard portrayals). We strongly recommend using only the origins and classes provided in these new rules.
 

Acmegamer

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Already backed at the start of the Kickstarter for around $250.00. I'm hoping that that you all do a pass over the layout and sentence structure of the books for 5e. Reading the original Symbaroum English translation books left a bit to be desired. I felt I was translating it into what was intended even in English. If that makes any sense?

It's my only real criticism of the books honestly. I backed the Forbidden Lands, Twilight 2000 and The One Ring Kickstarter's "all in" each time. Free Leagues does some awesome work over all and I always look forward to seeing what they've got coming next.

I've also enjoyed your interactions on the Free Leagues YouTube channel Jacob, you're good at explaining what's going on and what's intended. :smile:
 

Voros

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I pledged, the interview with Lilja I posted above sold me on it as he seems to have a clear and tight idea of how to do the redesign and while I have the Symbaroum BoH I'm more likely to convince my group to play the 5e version.
 
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zanshin

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This looks interesting. I have already tried my groups patience for new systems with 13th age Glorantha, so if I am going to try Symbaroum (which does sound very cool) then 5e will be an easier sell.
 

Mankcam

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I'm in at the Warden level, and it looks like those books just got upgraded to being a slipcase - sweet! :thumbsup:
 
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