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Sean W

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One that I'm finding interesting is Travellers on a Red Road, by Lukas Sjöström.

The system, as far as I've got in the rulebook, is fairly straightforward and looks sturdy enough. I wonder, though, if the book would have worked better as a supplement for an existing rule-set. My guess is that if I ever used the game, I would convert it to some rules I knew better rather than using its unique system.
I bought this, my players loved the rich chargen - the book feels like the complete package, no wasted space, lots of useful tables, but we couldn't get immersed in it the way we have with more vanilla fantasy or more exotic science fantasy. I would've liked more art that conveyed everyday life in a town, maybe a base-town write-up - because we ended up with these incredibly detailed PCs but the world seemed a bit vague - the tech level varied and I couldn't pin it down.

For me, the system had a problem, having ability go up in terms of dice size seems reasonable but my players kept rolling badly - I'd have preferred a solid modifier so they 'felt' a little more able at d8 than at d6.
 

CRKrueger

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I think Gumshoe is a much better fit than Mythras for the genre but YMMV.
It's just the old questions -
Do you need/want/desire overt genre mechanics for genre?
Is Gumshoe needed for investigations or is it a solution in search of a problem?
 

CRKrueger

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it came ready made in Gumshoe, and was in line with TDM's other product types. Likely a d100 in the future

I strongly suspect that Pete and Loz would love to have enough money to buy out Modiphius. Then they could produce the super premium deluxe Monster Island Boxed Set with a crocodile skin book cover, a 2A0 parchment map of monster island, tiki drinking cups with the tribe totem iconography, and a Port Grimsand playset.
What I really want to see is Pete's Conan Spell List. He's gone through all the Conan literature and put every magical effect in Mythras terms. That would be something to see.
 

Baulderstone

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I think Gumshoe is a much better fit than Mythras for the genre but YMMV.
I agree. A lot of the crunch in Mythras, like the combat special effects, just isn't going to serve a useful purpose in this kind of game. There is a good reason that Call of Cthulhu left large portions of RuneQuest mechanics lying on the table.
 

under_score

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You responded with your opinion on the matter. It seems odd to claim the topic should be off-limits as soon as someone weighs in for the other side.
My disappointment that TDM didn't use their own system for the game their publishing didn't make any claims about superiority for genre particulars. But my reply was mostly sarcastic, of course we can have that debate again.
I've looked at Gumshoe and felt it solves problems I never had. So my reply is that it is "better" only if you are a GM who has a problem with your game grinding to a halt due to failed investigation rolls.
Some back and forth, argue over training wheels and elitism, yada yada, and so it goes.
 

Baulderstone

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My disappointment that TDM didn't use their own system for the game their publishing didn't make any claims about superiority for genre particulars. But my reply was mostly sarcastic, of course we can have that debate again.
I've looked at Gumshoe and felt it solves problems I never had. So my reply is that it is "better" only if you are a GM who has a problem with your game grinding to a halt due to failed investigation rolls.
Some back and forth, argue over training wheels and elitism, yada yada, and so it goes.
I have issues with Gumshoe myself, but it is more on the action side of the mechanics. I can see being more comfortable with Casting the Runes, as I don't see it having much in the way of action.
 

Lofgeornost

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I bought this, my players loved the rich chargen - the book feels like the complete package, no wasted space, lots of useful tables, but we couldn't get immersed in it the way we have with more vanilla fantasy or more exotic science fantasy. I would've liked more art that conveyed everyday life in a town, maybe a base-town write-up - because we ended up with these incredibly detailed PCs but the world seemed a bit vague - the tech level varied and I couldn't pin it down.
I too was impressed by the way the game introduces elements of the world through chargen. I see your point about the difficulty of immersion--I think I would have it as well, if I ever get a chance to try the game out with a group. The background cultures are too unfamiliar for me. Since the game is supposed to be used for sandbox-style world exploration, the GM really needs a good grip on the world, how NPCs are going to act & react, etc.

I wonder if the game would be more accessible if, rather than describing 11 different regions very rapidly, it had focused just on one and gone into it in more depth. The region descriptions are evocative, if fairly brief, and I think if the underlying culture was more familiar to me (say premodern Europe) I could flesh them out without too much difficulty. But since I don't know much of anything about Siberian cultures, it's much harder. Even coming up with names would be difficult--the rules give you about a dozen personal names for each region, but I have no idea of how to create new ones that would sound reasonable. And the setting is 'serious' enough that just using generic fantasy names would be jarring.

For me, the system had a problem, having ability go up in terms of dice size seems reasonable but my players kept rolling badly - I'd have preferred a solid modifier so they 'felt' a little more able at d8 than at d6.
The system was intriguing enough--and unusual enough, from my perspective--that I put some time last weekend into figuring out the probabilities for different types of 'tests' as the rules call them. But this thread probably isn't the right place to discuss that.
 

Voros

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My disappointment that TDM didn't use their own system for the game their publishing didn't make any claims about superiority for genre particulars. But my reply was mostly sarcastic, of course we can have that debate again.
I've looked at Gumshoe and felt it solves problems I never had. So my reply is that it is "better" only if you are a GM who has a problem with your game grinding to a halt due to failed investigation rolls.
Some back and forth, argue over training wheels and elitism, yada yada, and so it goes.
Not sure which debate you're referring to honestly, I tend to tune out the old/new game or mechanics debates these days. I get that Mythras fans are an ethusiastic lot for the system though so I get your complaint I just don't agree with it.

I actually quite like Mythras but don't see how its high crunch combat would be needed for the Jamesian genre imo, the attraction to me for Gumshoe isn't the clue system, although that's fine as well, but how the character focused chargen, broad skill system and streamlined mechanics lead to faster play more suited to a game of gentlemen ghost stories.

One could probably strip down Mythras for this purpose but then that would just be CoC wouldn't it?

Which would be fine too, I'm all in favour of multi-system releases if that is viable for the publisher. Let a hundred flowers bloom and all that. I'm sure if there's enough demand DM would consider a Mythras release but this strikes me as a bit of a niche game at the moment, James isn't nearly as well known in rpg circles as he should be but perhaps this game will help with that.

To get back to the point of my earlier post, I'm wondering about nicking ideas from Turn of the Screw (too familiar?), Edith Wharton's terrific ghost stories (there's one about a letter in particular...), Saki's 'Srendi Vashtar,' perhaps even Peter Straub's chilling modern ghoststory Julia. Or Du Maurier/Roeg's Don't Look Now.

I think I may shoot for something bit darker than James tends to be, a bit more of that Saki cruelty or Straub's melancholy and repressed trauma.

I'd probably keep it in Edwardian times, I think most great ghost stories can be easily ported into the era, as it is less familiar than others and is an interesting time of repression and simmering rebellion, both political and erotic (I think I'm most familar with it from the films based on E.M. Forster's novels). WWI hangs over it all.

I need to dig into the sample scenarios. I think the ghost story has tremendous potential for rpgs but as previously mentioned most of the CoC scenarios I'm familar with are older and more overt in their horror. I think I'd even consider de-emphasizing the investigative aspects to a degree and shoot more for creepiness.
 

Armchair Gamer

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My copy of Perceforest from Aeon Games arrived last weekend. I've given it a readthrough, and if you want "Pendragon with Mythras," this is going to be your one-stop shop. I would have preferred sticking with the original material's 'pre-Arthurian Britain through medieval eyes' setting instead of painting over the serial numbers, but there's plenty of meat here.
 

Lofgeornost

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My copy of Perceforest from Aeon Games arrived last weekend. I've given it a readthrough, and if you want "Pendragon with Mythras," this is going to be your one-stop shop. I would have preferred sticking with the original material's 'pre-Arthurian Britain through medieval eyes' setting instead of painting over the serial numbers, but there's plenty of meat here.
I hope this will be available in the U.S. soon; it doesn't seem to be as yet.
 

chuckdee

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I have issues with Gumshoe myself, but it is more on the action side of the mechanics. I can see being more comfortable with Casting the Runes, as I don't see it having much in the way of action.

I think the one-on-one variations solve that problem with the action mechanics. At least, in my estimation. I've adapted them to regular Gumshoe for all my games.
 

Lofgeornost

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I'm in the US, but I preordered directly from Aeon Games.
Good to know that is possible. I was hoping for a U.S. distributor to avoid high shipping costs and delays. It would be nice if Aeon would sell the .PDF of the game on its own without the physical copy--that would get rid of the shipping issues.
 

chuckdee

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Swords of the Serpentine doe a pretty nice job giving Gumshoe some teeth for better combat.
You're still spending points from your pool, which is the part that I dislike for action. I really do love the game, but that spending your pool bit...

My game log for my playtest: https://write.as/cityoftowers/

As much as I don't like it, I just realized that I basically did the same thing for the game I just designed, though in my case, it is more wagering than spending.
 

Raleel

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I actually quite like Mythras but don't see how its high crunch combat would be needed for the Jamesian genre imo, the attraction to me for Gumshoe isn't the clue system, although that's fine as well, but how the character focused chargen, broad skill system and streamlined mechanics lead to faster play more suited to a game of gentlemen ghost stories.

One could probably strip down Mythras for this purpose but then that would just be CoC wouldn't it?
I have occasionally dickered with pulling in a Gumshoe philosophy into mythras. Not every game should be about the combat, and sometimes you want a different system for it. But then again, it's not like you can't have your cake and eat it too here. The system, whichever one it is, is there to support what you want to emphasize in the story.
 

Baulderstone

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I have occasionally dickered with pulling in a Gumshoe philosophy into mythras. Not every game should be about the combat, and sometimes you want a different system for it. But then again, it's not like you can't have your cake and eat it too here. The system, whichever one it is, is there to support what you want to emphasize in the story.
Yeah, if you and your group are already invested in Mythras, the additional weight isn't really an obstacle.
 

Endless Flight

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There’s something about a skill with d100% that just doesn’t ever totally sit well with me. I’m not even sure what it is. If a skill is a mod (ie +5) or a whole number it doesn’t bother me at all.
 

Brock Savage

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There’s something about a skill with d100% that just doesn’t ever totally sit well with me. I’m not even sure what it is. If a skill is a mod (ie +5) or a whole number it doesn’t bother me at all.
Characters with percentage skills feel incompetent and combat is whiffy.

Edit: I admit it could have something to do with the obfuscation of odds in most systems
 
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AsenRG

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Yeah, if you and your group are already invested in Mythras, the additional weight isn't really an obstacle.
Yeah, I was just going to say that it's easier to make a Mythras characer with bits that aren't going to be used,than to learn a new system - even one as light as Gumshoe.
 

Chris Brady

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Yeah, I was just going to say that it's easier to make a Mythras characer with bits that aren't going to be used,than to learn a new system - even one as light as Gumshoe.
Familiarity with a system will do that for ya. I can do the same with M&M 3e, because of how much I played it and D20 in general.
 

AsenRG

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Familiarity with a system will do that for ya. I can do the same with M&M 3e, because of how much I played it and D20 in general.
Yeah, I guess... though I can't imagine getting to that point with M&M3:grin:!

Anyway, if you can import the GUMSHOE-specific bits, you should have an easy time running the same game in Mythras. Now, if something didn't fit the d100 framework, it would be an argument for using GUMSHOE.
But I'm yet to find such a thing (the note about "learning a new system" referred to my players and not me, I'm already familiar with GUMSHOE:tongue:).
 

Baulderstone

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Anyway, if you can import the GUMSHOE-specific bits, you should have an easy time running the same game in Mythras.
One good thing about GUMSHOE, whether you like the system or not, is that it is light. That means there isn't going to be a lot of mechanical bits in there, making the book a good value even if you plan to run it for another system. That hardest part of running an investigative game is coming up with good mysteries, clues and NPCs to encounter. Statting things up for Your Favorite RPG is comparatively easy.

I haven't read Casting the Runes yet, but I feel that anyone that runs Call of Cthulhu that doesn't buy Trail of Cthulhu adventures is really missing out.
 

Armchair Gamer

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I even think it's fairly easy to migrate some of Gumshoe's core conceits to d100 or Savage Worlds. Bear in mind this is napkin-sketch-level armchair theorizing:

Core clue: If you have the skill, you get the clue; no roll required.
1-point spend: Equivalent to a standard success
2-point spend: Equivalent to a special success (BRP) or a raise (SW).

I don't know that I've ever seen a 3-point or higher spend for a clue in my limited GUMSHOE exposure, but that would map to a critical or 2 raises.
 

Arcane_Avatar

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CtR has, to my eye, a more 'spendy' style of play with larger allocation of points to the Investigative skills and more reasons to spend those for extra/bonus information. It might be a result of development of the system through the various releases of the core GUMSHOE in new settings/genres though. I fully expect a new/2e release of Trail to be different to the original from 2008 as the 2e version of Esoterrorists (from 2006) has significant changes/improvements.
 

under_score

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I even think it's fairly easy to migrate some of Gumshoe's core conceits to d100 or Savage Worlds. Bear in mind this is napkin-sketch-level armchair theorizing:

Core clue: If you have the skill, you get the clue; no roll required.
1-point spend: Equivalent to a standard success
2-point spend: Equivalent to a special success (BRP) or a raise (SW).

I don't know that I've ever seen a 3-point or higher spend for a clue in my limited GUMSHOE exposure, but that would map to a critical or 2 raises.
It's the whole spending points of a metacurrency investigation pool thing that I dislike about GUMSHOE. Delta Green's already got a variation of the "if you have the skill, you get the clue", by creating clues tied to a minimum skill level (ex: if you have History 50+, you get this clue). I've already started using that in my Call of Cthulhu games.
 

chuckdee

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It's the whole spending points of a metacurrency investigation pool thing that I dislike about GUMSHOE. Delta Green's already got a variation of the "if you have the skill, you get the clue", by creating clues tied to a minimum skill level (ex: if you have History 50+, you get this clue). I've already started using that in my Call of Cthulhu games.
In the way that I've used it, it's just an alternate, easier way of getting to the same point. If you have the skill, you get the basic clues which are enough to move things forward. If you push the skill to show your mastery of it, you get more subtle nuances that can affect your investigation.
 

AsenRG

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It's the whole spending points of a metacurrency investigation pool thing that I dislike about GUMSHOE. Delta Green's already got a variation of the "if you have the skill, you get the clue", by creating clues tied to a minimum skill level (ex: if you have History 50+, you get this clue). I've already started using that in my Call of Cthulhu games.
Funny enough, I'm almost sure I got that idea from RQ6:thumbsup:.
 

CRKrueger

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Is Mythras the Pub’s first official darling?

:clown:
Darling, IMO, is one of those words that carries with it negative connotations. Calling a game an rpg.net darling isn't a reason to buy it.

Mythras popularity and Mythras players' fandom here is overblown by people who don't like it, ironically by the people who like a game system more deserving of the term, PbtA.
 
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