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Yeah, I HATED Adam West's Batman as a kid. It wasn't until much much later I could appreciate the camp, but still, he was really never a good Batman.
 
Yeah, I HATED Adam West's Batman as a kid. It wasn't until much much later I could appreciate the camp, but still, he was really never a good Batman.
Hand in your Generation X card right now!

Seriously, 30 years of shit grimdark takes on Batman have left me colder than I care to find a simile for. People rave about Keaton and Nolan. But for me, those movies are all but unwatchable now. Relentlessly grim, lacking in soul. And in the case of The Dark Knight, about 40 minutes too long.

I guess it's part of Warner's inability to embrace the essentially camp nature of the superhero. And the struggle the Powers that Be at Warner have in actually admitting that these movies should be fun.

And anyway, Batman is a guy who gets dressed up in fancy dress to go out at night and punch mentally handicapped people. Am I the only one that sees the problem here?

:wink:
 
Hand in your Generation X card right now!

lol, nothing says Gen X like...Caesar Romero and Sammy Davis Jr...

I guess it's part of Warner's inability to embrace the essentially camp nature of the superhero. And the struggle the Powers that Be at Warner have in actually admitting that these movies should be fun.

Batman is at it's best when it embraces camp you say?

BatmanRobin.0.jpg


And anyway, Batman is a guy who gets dressed up in fancy dress to go out at night and punch mentally handicapped people. Am I the only one that sees the problem here?

Considering the box office revenues...probably.
 
lol, nothing says Gen X like...Caesar Romero and Sammy Davis Jr...
Or Star Trek, The Brady Bunch, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Land of Giants. You know, syndicated tv from the 60s that was on endless reruns in the 70s and in to the 80s.

Batman is at it's best when it embraces camp you say?

BatmanRobin.0.jpg




Considering the box office revenues...probably.
Theres a difference between fun, self aware and camp and camp with bad writing, self indulgent actors and a sense that the director was losing control on the set.

The thing is, the costumes, situations and characters in the superhero genre are inherently camp. Marvel has embraced that and doesnt deny it. Theres an element of 'yes they dress up in flamboyant costumes and solve all their problems with punching. Just go with it and enjoy the ride.'

Warner, on the other hand, dont seem to be able to grok that. They seem to feel that darker, more serious is the way to go. Possibly because of the Nolan Trilogy. Which always felt a little embarrassed about the central character being a billionaire martial arts expert vigilante with a thing for fancy toys and punching clowns.
 
... Christian Slater too young, but in a few years would have made an interesting pairing with Nicholson's Joker)...

I feel this would have been too weird because Christian Slater spent most of his career doing an impression of Jack Nicholson. It's especially obvious in Heathers.
 
Or Star Trek, The Brady Bunch, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Land of Giants. You know, syndicated tv from the 60s that was on endless reruns in the 70s and in to the 80s.

Some of those I knew of, some not, but syndicated TV from a prior generation is still indicative of a prior generation. I could certainly tell the difference between reruns of Bewitched and current episodes of Cheers or Married with Children. Adam West's Batman embodied the tastes and sensibilities of my parent's generation. Those same sensibilities were, ironically, killing the comic book sales, and DC was on the brink of actually cancelling the Batman comics until they were revitallized under Denny O'Neill.

Theres a difference between fun, self aware and camp and camp with bad writing, self indulgent actors and a sense that the director was losing control on the set.

Well camp is, by definition "an aesthetic style and sensibility that regards something as appealing because of its bad taste and ironic value." I associate it with John Waters, Hipsters, and Godzilla films. You seem to be using it synonymously with "light-hearted".

The thing is, the costumes, situations and characters in the superhero genre are inherently camp. Marvel has embraced that and doesnt deny it. Theres an element of 'yes they dress up in flamboyant costumes and solve all their problems with punching. Just go with it and enjoy the ride.'

I wouldn't call any of the Marvel films "camp". Maybe the Sony Fantastic Four flicks, just because there were elements done so tastelessly. The Marvel formula has effectively mixed comedy with melodrama and action, but that's not really "campy". The characters still take themselves seriously within the context of the stories, and the dangers they face are played straight.

Warner, on the other hand, dont seem to be able to grok that. They seem to feel that darker, more serious is the way to go. Possibly because of the Nolan Trilogy. Which always felt a little embarrassed about the central character being a billionaire martial arts expert vigilante with a thing for fancy toys and punching clowns.

I don't know what to tell you, really, different strokes for different folks. I don't think the "dark and edgy" thing worked for Superman, but Batman I personally see more as a gothic opera than anything. I know I don't want to see a self-aware, wink-wink to the audience Batman played for laughs as it calls attention to how silly it is, and nothing is played straight. But then, as I said before, I hated 60s Batman growing up. Give me the Burton films or Nolan trilogy over that any day.
 


I don't think I've laughed so hard in years...

When he said "Hughie Lewis and the News!" I lost it...
 
Well camp is, by definition "an aesthetic style and sensibility that regards something as appealing because of its bad taste and ironic value." I associate it with John Waters, Hipsters, and Godzilla films. You seem to be using it synonymously with "light-hearted".
90s kid posting80s stuff, gotcha.

Camp is about exaggeration and ostentation. There's a self deprecating aspect, but it definitely isn't ironic.

Personally, I have a feeling you're mixing and matching between camp and kitsch. Which is very much ironic.

The thing with camp is, it's a spectrum. Doctor Who, Star Wars, Star Trek. All camp as hell. But not in the sense of sending themselves up.
 

I was going to pick that up. I had read about it, but when I had, there were no pictures yet. I imagined a modded Sideswipe mold to make a Delorean, and it looks like that's what they went with.

And then they put it up as a Walmart exclusive in such a way that only bot using scalpers could get it. It sold out within a second.

Word is, that was only a limited release and there will be a wider non-exclusive release later ala Ectotron, but it's still irritating. It's doubly so because I'm currently struggling to get hold of a Skywarp and Thundercracker because Hasbro made those Target exclusives, and shopping for Transformers at Target is fucking terrible.

I despise exclusives. This is on top of toy distribution being absolute shit to begin with.

Edit:

This also isn't filling me with confidence about hunting down the Top Gun crossover (transforming F-14). I'm sure that will be an exclusive to one store or another.
 
90s kid posting80s stuff, gotcha.

I lived through the 80s and the 90s...presumably so did every surviving member of my generation...

Camp is about exaggeration and ostentation. There's a self deprecating aspect, but it definitely isn't ironic.

I mean, you can argue the definition with the dictionary if you like, it isn't going to make me personally like Groovy Psychadelic Batman any more....

Personally, I have a feeling you're mixing and matching between camp and kitsch. Which is very much ironic.

um, I'm not mixing and matching anything. I don't make the Batman films, I just know which ones I enjoy or not.

The thing with camp is, it's a spectrum. Doctor Who, Star Wars, Star Trek. All camp as hell. But not in the sense of sending themselves up.

Ok, well, you have your own definition, that's fine. Not like I'm not used to that on RPG forums.

And, of course you are welcome to your own tastes regarding comicbook adaptions, even if that means preferring Boomer Batman to Burton Batman.
 
I'm kinda over all the 80s nostalgia, but as a Gen Xer, I'm still okay with 70s nostalgia. Little known fact: the 70s actually lasted through 1983; the 80s didn't start until 1984. True story.

Carry on ...
 
I feel this would have been too weird because Christian Slater spent most of his career doing an impression of Jack Nicholson. It's especially obvious in Heathers.

That is why I said it might have been interesting, not so subtly playing on the two sides of the same coin thing. Not necessarily good, but potentially interesting.



Some of those I knew of, some not, but syndicated TV from a prior generation is still indicative of a prior generation. I could certainly tell the difference between reruns of Bewitched and current episodes of Cheers or Married with Children. Adam West's Batman embodied the tastes and sensibilities of my parent's generation. Those same sensibilities were, ironically, killing the comic book sales, and DC was on the brink of actually cancelling the Batman comics until they were revitallized under Denny O'Neill.


I lived through the 80s and the 90s...presumably so did every surviving member of my generation...

So obviously this is partly an issue of perspective of early Gen X vs late Gen X, I lived through the end of the 1960s, all of 70s and was driving in the 80s. For me Star Trek, Adam West Batman, Bewitched, I Dream of Genie, the 1968 Spiderman, Underdog, the Flintstones, Six Million Dollar Man etc were huge influences for me as a kid, while Thundarr, Voltron, Masters of the Universe and Thunder Cats are kind of meh for me. Heck, they were giving away Thunder cats swag with kids meals when I worked at Burger King, so being an animation nerd I was familiar with it but at 17 I wasn't the target audience for it.

Cheers, was a new show when I was in high school, and Married with Children came out the year after I graduated (Class of 86).
 
I lived through the 80s and the 90s...presumably so did every surviving member of my generation...



I mean, you can argue the definition with the dictionary if you like, it isn't going to make me personally like Groovy Psychadelic Batman any more....



um, I'm not mixing and matching anything. I don't make the Batman films, I just know which ones I enjoy or not.



Ok, well, you have your own definition, that's fine. Not like I'm not used to that on RPG forums.

And, of course you are welcome to your own tastes regarding comicbook adaptions, even if that means preferring Boomer Batman to Burton Batman.
Definitions. You're reaching for an American one. I'm from the country that has pantomimes and gave us Carry On, Formation Mincing and John Innman.

Lived through the 80s means nothing. I lived through the 70s but as I was 8 when they ended, I cant say I remember much about them. I went to high school in the 80s. Class of 88, in American terms. And 85% of this thread is so far outside the UK experience as to be a surreal take on Ferris Buellers life.

As for Batman, there hasn't been a good movie adaptation yet. The 90s cartoons, on the other hand, are for me, definitive.

Oh, as for camp, read this. Mostly to do with fashion, but it's a big topic as to what is camp. Especially these days, where what is not camp might be easier to find.

 
I'm kinda over all the 80s nostalgia, but as a Gen Xer, I'm still okay with 70s nostalgia. Little known fact: the 70s actually lasted through 1983; the 80s didn't start until 1984. True story.

Carry on ...

Very true, there was a lot of bleedover from the 70s into the early 80s, just as the late 80s bled into the early 90s.

As a kid I didn't realize a lot of my favourite movies on TV were actually from the 70s or even late 60s.

In terms of camp, I think the Met Gala is too self-conscious to be camp in the way that Susan Sontag defined it for generations to come in her brilliant essay 'Notes on Camp' which popularized the formerly subcultural and very gay sensibility.


With a few exceptions I don't find most modern self-conscious camp successful, as John Waters notes these days making a purposefully bad film just doesn't have the same frisson as the trash films of the past. That is why something like The Room works and is so rare, it is deadly earnest.
 
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Another staple of late night cable and VHS rentals were 80s teen sex comedies. So much patience for the occasional flash of breast or bum or in the case of the less restrained Canadian sex comedies even bush.

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Almost all these films were released or distributed by major studios, some of the film posters (also used for their VHS box covers) are quite racy, can't imagine a major studio putting out something like these today.

Course in the great 'sell the sizzle, not the steak' exploitation tradition these posters promise a lot more raunchy action than what was actually present in the movies which were often pretty tame.

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I’ve never seen Porky’s and I have no desire to. I don’t remember ever seeing Revenge of the Nerds either.

As far as 60s Batman goes. I loved it as a little kid, despised it as teen and through my 30s. Only when I hit my 40s did I find the camp funny. My favorite Batman is actually the comics from the mid 80s and I don’t think any other media adaptation has gotten close to them, maybe the Justice League/Unlimited cartoons.
 
I watched Revenge of the Nerds so many times at a kid it is kind of embarrassing. I am not an expert on Batman by any means but my favorite version happens to be Batman: The Animated Series.
 
Have any of you fellow 80's kids considered why so many shows featured a main protagonist who was a drifter?
 
The concept of a “drifter” going around helping people was popular back when Westerns were a staple on TV, going back to the 50s. The 80s had quite a few too, the first that comes to mind is Highway to Heaven, the wholesome angelic show starring Michael Landon and Victor French doing good deeds in various towns.
 
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