The Curious Case of Gail Gygax

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Jetstream said:
I don’t really get why they don’t just adapt Dragonlance or something :tongue:
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Probably because

1. They tried on the cheap and it didn't do well at all;
2. As TJS said, it's dated;
3. Internal and fan politics mean you have to get Weis & Hickman's buy-in, which may be difficult at this point and may add complications they don't want to deal with for building a franchise.
 
Edgewise said:
This was a very solid article. I went over to Tenkar's blog to see what he was saying when this was posted. It was a bunch of utter nonsense.
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I remember when that happened. I've never known Tenkar well, mainly reading his blog to catch up on Kickstarter drama, but I'd assumed he was a rational older gamer with a taste for drama. What I saw in his reactions to the reporter attempting to get his side of the story was something akin to the exact same level of paranoia that Gail is now known for. And that he posted this on his site like he was somehow proud of how he'd given the journalist this weird run-around showed this strange lack of self-awareness that I can't help compare to people off the deep end like Dave Sim. I've only been back to Tenkar's once or twice since, as I can no longer consider him a reliable source of information.
 
TristramEvans said:
What I saw in his reactions to the reporter attempting to get his side of the story was something akin to the exact same level of paranoia that Gail is now known for. And that he posted this on his site like he was somehow proud of how he'd given the journalist this weird run-around showed this strange lack of self-awareness that I can't help compare to people off the deep end like Dave Sim.
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1) I feel this whole thread is dancing really close to political at this point. It sounds like a thread at one of The Other Places.
2) I'm not very familiar with either Gail or Tenkar.
3) I haven't read the posts you're referring to.

For the above reasons I'm hesitant to add my two cents, but I'll do it to address one very particular point.

I'm not defending anything in particular Tenkar may have done, but in the last decade I've seen many, many incontrovertible examples of reporters willfully cherry-picking, misquoting, and distorting the people they've questioned for stories. This is especially likely to happen when the person being questioned is on the "wrong" side of the story. I don't blame anyone in such a position for being wary of reporters or avoiding them altogether. If that's "paranoia", I believe that at this time it's really on the lighter end of the spectrum.
 
Shipyard Locked said:
1) I feel this whole thread is dancing really close to political at this point.
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I’m not sure why you would say this. I do find it strange you’d opine on a bunch of posts about other posts that you admit you’ve never read. I don’t know what kind of politics you’d have to subscribe to in order to see Tenkar as not a jackass in this particular case. Honestly this was a he-said/she-said situation of the sort that any injection of politics is a bit of a red herring. I think if you’re going to lecture people you should know a little more.
 
The situation isn't political, it's just drama over the rights to Gygax's legacy and Gail's inheritance and plans for a Gygax memorial. Gail believes there are people "out to get her", as does Tenkar apparently. It's a sad state of affairs, mostly for those people who wanted to celebrate Gygax's life after his passing, but his Widow decided to make a power play instead, meaning we probably won't see Gygax's "lost works" published until after she passes on, meaning probably years after they would have had an avid audience, not to mention the sad demise of Gygax magazine.
 
Edgewise said:
I think if you’re going to lecture people you should know a little more.
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I didn't lecture anyone.

I said I felt something, a personal reaction. I said I felt it was "dancing close to political", not that it was political yet. I said it sounds (to me, a personal perception) like one of those threads because I'm familiar with how some of the most divisive threads at those places go, and the words and tones that have been used in this one were reminiscent of that.

Perhaps I shouldn't have made the comparison to other places. I apologize.

I said all these things to preface my real ambivalence about making the comment that followed. I was concerned about fueling something that could become political.

I didn't go on a tirade. I didn't reprimand anyone. I didn't even defend Tenkar. I made a passing, semi-detached comment about a general situation in the world.

Edgewise said:
I do find it strange you’d opine on a bunch of posts about other posts that you admit you’ve never read.
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Perhaps I should have read the article and blog first. I apologize. My post was really only about the notion of trusting reporters in general.

Edgewise said:
Honestly this was a he-said/she-said situation of the sort that any injection of politics is a bit of a red herring.
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He-said/she-said AND a reporter from Kotaku jumping into the fray. If I go any further into this, however, it will get political, exactly what I wanted to avoid.
 
Endless Flight said:
I’m skeptical there’s anything in his “lost works” that’s worth much of anything. If there was gold in them there hills, it would have been dug up already.
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Come on, I bet there are at least two more gems on the level of Cyborg Commando and Gord the Rogue buried amidst his fast food receipts, lawsuit proofs of service, and other papers.
 
Shipyard Locked said:
I said all these things to preface my real ambivalence about making the comment that followed. I was concerned about fueling something that could become political.
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Fair enough. Please don't get the impression that I was upset with you. I was just saying that I don't see anything political about this situation at all, and I think you might agree if you knew a bit more about it.
Shipyard Locked said:
If I go any further into this, however, it will get political...
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Geez man, I really don't know why. I still don't get why you feel this has to bring in politics. Sometimes a situation is just a situation, and not representative of a movement or whatever.
 
There's tons of politics in gaming, but I don't see the usual suspects having anything to do with this. I also don't see anyone criticizing or supporting Tenkar due to his stance or involvement in any of the famous political gaming shitfests.
 
Edgewise said:
Geez man, I really don't know why. I still don't get why you feel this has to bring in politics. Sometimes a situation is just a situation, and not representative of a movement or whatever.
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I'll send you a private message to explain my apprehension if you'd like.
 
Endless Flight said:
I’m skeptical there’s anything in his “lost works” that’s worth much of anything. If there was gold in them there hills, it would have been dug up already.
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I think there may be stuff there of academic interest but I've never heard of a game design archive, although it seems possible something like MIT may have that based on their history of publishing (small g) game theory.

But archives for academic purposes don't pay (or very, very rarely do), it has to be a donation, although you can get a tax receipt for the donation.

I think that would have been the best move if anyone involved had a real sense of the actual value of the material.
 
If I understand correctly, part of the issue is the film rights for a Gygax biopic that Gail alledgedly sold years ago and is now suing or being sued over. I honestly haven't read up on the situation for a few years though.
 
So I two questions regarding the magazine Gygax. 1) Did the brothers get legally threatened by her to stop publication? 2) Did she want a cut of the profits, however small they probably were, or did she felt like the magazine soiled the Gygax legacy somehow?

I didn’t read the magazine but I think it’s a damned shame they couldn’t keep doing that. It seemed to be well received.
 
Endless Flight said:
So I two questions regarding the magazine Gygax. 1) Did the brothers get legally threatened by her to stop publication? 2) Did she want a cut of the profits, however small they probably were, or did she felt like the magazine soiled the Gygax legacy somehow?

I didn’t read the magazine but I think it’s a damned shame they couldn’t keep doing that. It seemed to be well received.
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That's discussed in the article. I think it was done to protect the supposed value of the 'Gygax' name. Which is honestly so tiny as to have no value outside of a niche of a niche hobby.

Seems the long term goal was a biopic and a video game based on Castle Greyhawk.

The article, which is quite reasonable in tone, makes it clear that Gail is probably not in the best state of mind. But that doesn't make internet fools like Tenkar calling her a 'cunt' online and then being all coy about it anymore acceptable. Could you imagine if Gary Gygax was alive to see how his supposed 'fans' are treating his widow?

Tenkar's behaviour is pathetic for a grown man, let alone a senior citizen. Seems extended adolescence is not just a curse of the hated millenials.
 
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Yeah, Gail sued Gygax's sons over the use of the name "Gygax". Before that point I wasn't aware anyone could legally own a surname. But it may have never gone to court for monetary reasons. I'm sure I have some old links on the debacle saved somewhere, I'll try and dig them up when I get home tonight
 
If anyone's still in contact with Benoist, I'm sure he has the inside story as he's been working with Luke on a Kickstarter IIRC
 
TristramEvans said:
Yeah, Gail sued Gygax's sons over the use of the name "Gygax". Before that point I wasn't aware anyone could legally own a surname. But it may have never gone to court for monetary reasons. I'm sure I have some old links on the debacle saved somewhere, I'll try and dig them up when I get home tonight
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That’s the thing I don’t understand. It wasnt called Gary Gygax. Maybe the legal fees would add up, but I don’t think you would lose that case based on what I see there. Of course I’m not a lawyer and never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
 
Endless Flight said:
That’s the thing I don’t understand. It wasnt called Gary Gygax. Maybe the legal fees would add up, but I don’t think you would lose that case based on what I see there. Of course I’m not a lawyer and never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
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According to the article what prompted to case was the Gygax brothers trying to copyright the name of the magazine. I could see how if they had succeeded that could complicate things down the line for a biopic or 'Gary Gygax's Castle Greyhawk' video game. But again it is all pretty academic as I doubt either of those projects would have much chance of ever coming to fruition.
 
AsenRG said:
Sorry, guys, but the US law system is messed-up... which, I suspect, many of you would agree with :smile:!
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Maybe but I seem to recall he changed his name because the contract he signed with a label was for X albums at a rate below what he wanted. He changed his name because it was essentially his band name and by changing it he wasn't producing albums as that band even though all the players (himself) were the same.

Basically he didn't like his contract. Tried to renegotiate, failed. Changed name as legal trick around it. Eventually said "I can keep doing this but I'd rather go back to using my name". Sued to get out of his contract.
 
TristramEvans said:
Yeah, Gail sued Gygax's sons over the use of the name "Gygax". Before that point I wasn't aware anyone could legally own a surname.
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There's an old anecdote, perhaps apocryphal, that Gary Gygax was once sent a cease and desist letter from TSR over his own name.
 
Bunch said:
Maybe but I seem to recall he changed his name because the contract he signed with a label was for X albums at a rate below what he wanted. He changed his name because it was essentially his band name and by changing it he wasn't producing albums as that band even though all the players (himself) were the same.

Basically he didn't like his contract. Tried to renegotiate, failed. Changed name as legal trick around it. Eventually said "I can keep doing this but I'd rather go back to using my name". Sued to get out of his contract.
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BigJackBrass said:
There's an old anecdote, perhaps apocryphal, that Gary Gygax was once sent a cease and desist letter from TSR over his own name.
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Dumarest said:
Or...don't sign a contract you'll later regret and then throw a public fit over your bad judgment? Either way.
:thumbsup:
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Yeah, guys, I must clarify that I meant the more general idea of "owning a surname to the exclusion of people who actually have the same surname" :smile: .
 
AsenRG said:
Yeah, guys, I must clarify that I meant the more general idea of "owning a surname to the exclusion of people who actually have the same surname" :smile: .
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If you look into the laws around this it's hard to claim. As I read it you can only do it if your name is distinct and we'll know in a specific market.

If anyone could claim it, Gary Gygax is the person who qualified. It's says more about family issues that his son is getting sued by his wife than the law to me.
 
AsenRG said:
Yeah, guys, I must clarify that I meant the more general idea of "owning a surname to the exclusion of people who actually have the same surname"
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I don't believe this has anything to do with owning one's name so much as publishing and performing under one's name when one has signed a contract to do so through one's label. I'm saying this without doing any research into the matter but it is consistent with what I have heard about The King in Purple and his label struggles over the decades. I wouldn't be shocked if such a contract would also be legally binding in many countries.
 
Bunch said:
If you look into the laws around this it's hard to claim. As I read it you can only do it if your name is distinct and we'll know in a specific market.

If anyone could claim it, Gary Gygax is the person who qualified. It's says more about family issues that his son is getting sued by his wife than the law to me.
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Dweezil Zappa got a C&D from his own brother over calling his touring show "Zappa Plays Zappa."

Never underestimate just how screwed up things can get over a name. Especially a name you think you own because it's the one on your birth certificate.
 
The Gygax brothers should have just called it Old School Roleplaying or something so that Gail couldn’t shut it down. That way they could say they were publishing OSR by TSR.
 
Endless Flight said:
The Gygax brothers should have just called it Old School Roleplaying or something so that Gail couldn’t shut it down. That way they could say they were publishing OSR by TSR.
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The fact they didn't change the name and keep going suggests they saw value in trading on the name. I'm guessing it was a marginal money maker as Gygax. No way of telling if OSR would have worked better or worse.
 
I stopped going to Tenkar because the blog really isn’t a thing anymore. He spends a lot of time doing his podcasts and I don’t really see value in them. I don’t mind his long form podcast interviews depending on the person being interviewed.

I feel bad for Gail. There isn’t any value in the Gygax name anymore and she made some bad decisions in the last decade when she could have capitalized on his stuff for some money. Within a generation, Gary Gygax won’t really mean anything to anybody. Wizards of the Coast is doing their best to have themselves be listed as the creators of Dungeon & Dragons.
 
Ulairi said:
I stopped going to Tenkar because the blog really isn’t a thing anymore. He spends a lot of time doing his podcasts and I don’t really see value in them. I don’t mind his long form podcast interviews depending on the person being interviewed.

I feel bad for Gail. There isn’t any value in the Gygax name anymore and she made some bad decisions in the last decade when she could have capitalized on his stuff for some money. Within a generation, Gary Gygax won’t really mean anything to anybody. Wizards of the Coast is doing their best to have themselves be listed as the creators of Dungeon & Dragons.
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I agree but I doubt there was much to capitalize on a decade ago either. I think the biggest media profile Gary ever had was when he was a guest star on Futurama, not exactly a stepping stone to a big payday.
 
Ulairi said:
Wizards of the Coast is doing their best to have themselves be listed as the creators of Dungeon & Dragons.
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Wait, what? I haven't heard anything about this before
 
TristramEvans said:
Wait, what? I haven't heard anything about this before
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Well, technically it's WotC that created the last 3 editions, including the current one:smile:.
And, as people keep repeating, those are basically different games:wink:.
 
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