The D6+ System: My Star Wars Adaptation

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TristramEvans said:
Looking good. A minor suggestion - if you were to move the picture of Old Luke on the first page down to above Jedi Training on the second page, it would move the description of Sense up to the first page, so you don't have a stranded title between pages. But I'm really persnickety about that sort of thing, it's not a big deal.
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Yes, I will probably end up moving some of the pictures around so that they aren’t always on the top.
 
TristramEvans said:
Looking good. A minor suggestion - if you were to move the picture of Old Luke on the first page down to above Jedi Training on the second page, it would move the description of Sense up to the first page, so you don't have a stranded title between pages. But I'm really persnickety about that sort of thing, it's not a big deal.
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I was going to comment on the 'Sense' title being stranded as well (there's a name for this but I can't remember its correct title), but I would argue that it is something to be rectified rather than not being a big deal!
 
Yeah I saw it after I posted but I know it’s going to be fixed. I actually noticed a few more mistakes after you pointed that out. I was honestly more worried about pictures always being in the same places. I still have to write more for this chapter. I do appreciate all feedback!
 
Thorgrimr77 Thorgrimr77 thank you for the compliment. I just love me some Star Wars and figured I could make a few small changes. D6 is a really good system, so while you may have all these crazy ideas at first, you end up really paring it down after a while. I got some more stuff to show really soon.
 
Fenris-77 Fenris-77 - Thanks....glad to be here.

Endless Flight Endless Flight - Yes D6 is a superbly fluid system, you can push it crunchy or narrative, you can push it tactical, you can even push it by genre.

So I have been doing a rework of D6 to fit another IP, not SW, even thought it is still my favorite RPG or all time. Even more crazy is that I am doing a fantasy setting that has magic, divination, and techno/biomancy complete with clone army...so I have quite a bit of work, but this has been ongoing for about 2 years in my spare time....Every time I see someone modify the D6 system, I take a deep dive on what they are changing on how it impacts the game....

With that said, I think you came to the same conclusion I did about the skills.....my most recent iteration has it being a bonus added to the attribute die code. Nice work on your posted work so far....really nice. I think it feels lighter and more "fun" which I know is more opinion than concrete feedback, but your rules so far make it feel like a fun adventure vs. heavy crunchy, which I think the REUP and OpenD6 rules were a little too crunchy and lost a bit of 1E's fun factor.....

I can't wait to see your playtest PDF.....might cause me to rethink other things as well.
 
Endless Flight said:
For about the last year or so I’ve been working on a variant of the D6 system, which I call D6+. The basics are very similar to the West End Star Wars version, but I’ve taken some bits and pieces of other Star Wars games and other systems and worked them in.

My system doesn't use bucket fulls of dice; the players will rarely roll more than five at any one time, even with Force points in play. Skills are now what I call a “fixed value”, similar to the way they are in d20. This makes my system a little less swingy than the old D6 system. Also, I use eight attributes instead of six and I also use static defenses, which is used in Mini-Six, among other games.
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So, like the Kuro RPG? I approve, obviously:thumbsup:! I like this modification better than the option taken in d6 games that revert to success-counting...

Do you also have support for non-SW SF games:shade:?

Either way, we're waiting for the playtest PDF...:grin:


Also, welcome, Thorgrimr77 Thorgrimr77 ... huh, what's with the 77 number on this site, it's unexpectedly popular:tongue:!
 
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I’m thinking my Christmas present for the Pub will be the playtest. The only thing that might not be included will be the vehicle rules. But it will have character creation, skills chapter, combat, the Force and some equipment.
 
Endless Flight said:
Getting closer to finishing up the combat chapter.

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I like the way you're approaching it. Do you want my thoughts on this:grin:?

(If not, just for the glory of all that's good and right add a note "for combat tactics that depend on success level, you can take a version requiring lesser success as well". Otherwise Disarm might be a gamble because in some situations* result #1 is way better than #2, and in some even #3 might be worse than either #2 or #1...:shade:

*Say, "you disarm an opponent with a blaster, but suspect he has a spare, lighter weapon". If the weapon goes away, he's going to reach for it. If it's in his feet, he might plausibly try to go for it, giving you a free all-out attack.
Similarly, "you're on defense, grappling over a gun/knife and you hear security is coming". If they enter at the wrong moment, they'd most probably arrest whoever is holding the weapon. Now, do you want to take over the gun, pardner, or do ya want it down and away, while you keep restraining the attacker:gunslinger:?)
 
AsenRG AsenRG Yeah, you can take a lesser success. I actually don’t want too many levels of these things because it can lead to analysis paralysis. What usually happens is I overwrite rules and then tone it down the longer I look at it. I do like having cool combat options though.
 
Endless Flight said:
AsenRG AsenRG Yeah, you can take a lesser success. I actually don’t want too many levels of these things because it can lead to analysis paralysis.
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Yeah, my point is "make it explicit if you haven't" (if it's in those pages, I've missed it:thumbsup:).

Endless Flight said:
What usually happens is I overwrite rules and then tone it down the longer I look at it. I do like having cool combat options though.
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Where is this familiar from:shock:?!?

Also, the only other part I'm not keen on is that it seems that the only way to get those combat options is to either stop defending, or to stop attacking...while in reality either one would make getting such an effect less likely, according to what I've been taught:shade:.
 
AsenRG said:
Yeah, my point is "make it explicit if you haven't" (if it's in those pages, I've missed it:thumbsup:).
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No, I’ll make it a point to put that in there.
AsenRG said:
Where is this familiar from:shock:?!?

Also, the only other part I'm not keen on is that it seems that the only way to get those combat options is to either stop defending, or to stop attacking...while in reality either one would make getting such an effect less likely, according to what I've been taught:shade:.
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No, the only way to get the options is to go full press attack or defense. You have to basically spend a full round action to get the options. There’s actually lightsaber options too, but I haven’t shown those yet.
 
Malckuss said:
What main differences do you think your hack has over the core WEG D6? Would folks be able to get away with using a blank, fill-in the skills D6 sheet?
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It’s not much different. I will definitely be able to do a sheet, it just won’t be uber pretty.
 
Endless Flight said:
No, I’ll make it a point to put that in there.

No, the only way to get the options is to go full press attack or defense. You have to basically spend a full round action to get the options. There’s actually lightsaber options too, but I haven’t shown those yet.
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Yeah, I don't mind the full action, but again, sacrificing either attack or defense seldom works. DCC gets that one better with the Mighty Deeds being in addition to damage, IMO:thumbsup:.

Of course, your system, your call. I'm just giving my feedback.
 
Endless Flight said:
I think what I am going to do is create a new Advancement Point so that Character Points are only used for rolls. Advancement points will be acquired by failing skill checks without using Character Points or Force Points.
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That's exactly the system I use in Phaserip, "Continuity Points" to separate advancement out from Karma, earned when Heroes fail rolls (so it is by establishing a character's limits that they character is provided the opportunity to learn and grow).

Of course it loses that dichotomy player choice of instant reward vs long term benefits, but I just overall didn't find that was enjoyable enough from a player perspective, and it encourages hoarding.
 
This is developing nicely....can't wait to see where it lands.

As AsenRG AsenRG mentioned, my gut is telling me that to only get these options when going full attack or full defend makes it feel like a penalty...even though the risk can pay off in fun and more advantageous ways than a normal attack or defense action. I am looking into the idea of these tactics after you mentioned them.....I am now going back to games that have stunts and other advanced combat techniques and trying to see what works and why....not sure if it should be tied to extremely good/bad rolls OR if it makes sense to open as an option once a hit has been successful.....and paired with damage being dealt....something like a special "finishing move" could be fun, but some of your other options don't really fit with that......still thinking about it.

Good progress though. I love seeing what you are making.
 
Yeah, I feel like there’s risk involved, which makes it interesting. If you use a full attack, you can actually fail at hitting your target but you could push them back several meters. An example would be Luke pressing Vader in the carbon freezing chamber in TESB. He goes full fury and Vader blocks all his blows but he falls backwards over the ledge. Then Vader would have to roll an Acrobatics check to not take any damage.

The thing is, if Vader used full defense, Luke gets none of those options. The options only work if the opposing player picks the standard attack or defense.

This is why initiative is so important. The lowest initiative declares first and that can set up interesting events. If the lowest initiative declares standard defense, then the higher initiative can pick full attack…or not. Because if he picks full attack and choose an option, he has opened himself to having just passive defense that round, against any attack.

I dislike games where it’s kind of like “I move five feet and swing my lightsaber at the bad guy”. Need some stuff. But not ridiculous crunch either. I’m trying to put this in that medium crunch level.
 
Endless Flight said:
I think what I am going to do is create a new Advancement Point so that Character Points are only used for rolls. Advancement points will be acquired by failing skill checks without using Character Points or Force Points.
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I would recommend tapping into the old houserule: you need to spend character points on rolls before you could turn them into XP to improve your character. This encouraged more heroics like you see in the films and didn't penalize players for wanting to have competent characters.
 
Very sound reasoning here.....I think as you just explained it, makes much more sense to me your logic. I think it is actually pretty good. I was trying to unpack situationally how it would play out....thanks for the clarification....I might just swipe the mechanic, but play with the options for each to add some more diversity to the options.....maybe that would really put the risk/reward center stage for the players.....a bonus is that it really does make initiative mean something - which you could also play with.

The one caveat is that it doesn't work unless each player and each enemy roll separate initiative.....AND any groups that you want to "combine fire" would have to always default to a normal attack or defense...since they are acting as a unit....they are "mooks" afterall....like Stormtroopers shooting at the same target. If you aren't opening the door for combined attacks then it isn't really an issue at all.
 
Malckuss said:
I would recommend tapping into the old houserule: you need to spend character points on rolls before you could turn them into XP to improve your character. This encouraged more heroics like you see in the films and didn't penalize players for wanting to have competent characters.
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That might work. I would just say that if you spend the maximum amount of CP possible to get the advancement point.
 
Thorgrimr77 said:
Very sound reasoning here.....I think as you just explained it, makes much more sense to me your logic. I think it is actually pretty good. I was trying to unpack situationally how it would play out....thanks for the clarification....I might just swipe the mechanic, but play with the options for each to add some more diversity to the options.....maybe that would really put the risk/reward center stage for the players.....a bonus is that it really does make initiative mean something - which you could also play with.

The one caveat is that it doesn't work unless each player and each enemy roll separate initiative.....AND any groups that you want to "combine fire" would have to always default to a normal attack or defense...since they are acting as a unit....they are "mooks" afterall....like Stormtroopers shooting at the same target. If you aren't opening the door for combined attacks then it isn't really an issue at all.
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I’m no genius game designer. I just try stuff that might be cool and throw 99% of it out. I’m trying to remember how I came up with the idea, but the actual tactics were inspired by Mythras and other d100 games, not any D6 game. But I feel emboldened to continue if somebody likes what I am doing. The praise I get here has helped me push forward. A lukewarm response would have probably made me shelve it for years.

My initiative rolls are usually separate rolls for each important character and then a single roll for groups of less important enemies.
 
Makes sense. I have been reading tons of rule sets and variations on all the D6 games I can find.

In other news, I was thinking about your Difficulty Numbers and your skill bonuses.

If you are an average (Att) of 3D and a well trained (proficient, skill) employee in a certain skill, like Droid Repair, you would have 3D + 8. This nets a range of 11 -26, which means there is only 1 outcome allowing failure for a non-modified Moderate task (range starts at 12)......Not saying this is right/wrong, just curious if that was your intent? You are including a wild die, though, so that would always allow for a "complication" of some sort even if outright failure isn't an option.

Since skills here are flat bonuses and the attributes are flat "D" codes, it is pretty reasonable math.

I am asking since I have been toying with the idea of eliminating the wild die completely paired with making sure that skills represent a higher probability of both success and "critical successes" or "advantages".....it is the bottom end, chance of "complication" or "failure" that is harder to set, especially during the first few sessions of a less experienced character.
 
Yeah, I am not a fan of games where the outcome can fluctuate so much. Having a 3D-+10 skill vs a DN of 15 should really never fail.
 
Endless Flight said:
Yeah, I feel like there’s risk involved, which makes it interesting. If you use a full attack, you can actually fail at hitting your target but you could push them back several meters. An example would be Luke pressing Vader in the carbon freezing chamber in TESB. He goes full fury and Vader blocks all his blows but he falls backwards over the ledge. Then Vader would have to roll an Acrobatics check to not take any damage.

The thing is, if Vader used full defense, Luke gets none of those options. The options only work if the opposing player picks the standard attack or defense.

This is why initiative is so important. The lowest initiative declares first and that can set up interesting events. If the lowest initiative declares standard defense, then the higher initiative can pick full attack…or not. Because if he picks full attack and choose an option, he has opened himself to having just passive defense that round, against any attack.

I dislike games where it’s kind of like “I move five feet and swing my lightsaber at the bad guy”. Need some stuff. But not ridiculous crunch either. I’m trying to put this in that medium crunch level.
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OK, but this really incentivizes the lower initiative* to always pick one of the full options, likely full defense, and the higher initiative to always match with the opposing maneuver (unless he's losing already, in which case, he mismatches):thumbsup:.

Why? Because if you're the better one, you don't want the dice to have a say if you can help it. The side that's outmatched has to count on them, not you. (Vader is better in The Empire Strikes Back, since Luke hasn't finished his training).
That becomes kinda predictable, I'd say.

Again, if that's what you're after, go for it. I'm just thinking that this might be an unintended consequence.


*I'm kinda assuming here he's losing, usually better fighters also have better initiative:grin:!
Endless Flight said:
Yeah, I am not a fan of games where the outcome can fluctuate so much. Having a 3D-+10 skill vs a DN of 15 should really never fail.
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I agree.
And you might consider then adding an EABA-like rule "if it would be enough to roll all 1.5/2s on all dice, you don't need to roll against that TN". You can still roll, of course, in order to get special successes...but then you have nobody to blame if you still fail.

Or to make it a bit more different from EABA, "if your skill times 1.5 is enough to beat the TN without any dice added, you don't need to roll".

(As a bonus, it also allows dispatching minions faster in EABA).
 
Not necessarily. The lower initiative guy could be the better combatant. Initiative in my D6 variant is probably just going to be a unmodified Intuition roll.

There will be a way to move up or down the initiative turn, but it requires an action to do so. It’s basically reorienting yourself in combat.

If the lower initiative always goes for full attack or defense there can be unforeseen circumstances, like if there are three groups fighting each other.
 
It's looking really nice endless! I haven't commented on your work till now because I don't know too much about the Star Wars lore etc and the mechanics seem sound so I didn't have anything to add but that leads me to one possible improvement. Are the species described somewhere? If not, a descriptive sentence or two could be nice, just enough to remind the casual Star Wars enjoyer what's what.

And no worries, a "genius" is just a guy who didn't quit! Urdlenspeed to you!
 
Urdlen's best boy said:
It's looking really nice endless! I haven't commented on your work till now because I don't know too much about the Star Wars lore etc and the mechanics seem sound so I didn't have anything to add but that leads me to one possible improvement. Are the species described somewhere? If not, a descriptive sentence or two could be nice, just enough to remind the casual Star Wars enjoyer what's what.

And no worries, a "genius" is just a guy who didn't quit! Urdlenspeed to you!
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Thanks for the kind words. Yes, I did think about adding a brief description of the species and an example or two from Star Wars media. An example would be:

Description: Zabrak were a tough, carnivorous species from Irodinia and Dathomir notable for their two hearts. Some had small vestigial horns that circled their head.
Notable Members : Darth Maul, Mother Talzin, Savage Opress
 
Endless Flight said:
Darth Vader (as of The Empire Strikes Back)
Human Male Sith Lord
“Impressive. Most impressive.”
Size: medium, Age: middle age (45)
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valgunn said:
Nice effort!!!

You mentioned aging rules—how does that work?
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I want to know because I am older than Darth Vader... eek

Fantastic project!

FWIW, I liked the sans serif font you were using back in '22.
 
The san serif font? Which one (maybe an example from this thread). I’ve changed it a few times during this project.
 
Aging rules are pretty simple. A couple examples:

If you are an adolescent, you would reduce three attributes by 1D.

If you are middle-age, you would subtract 1D from one attribute.
 
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