The Exalted and car talk thread

[Shipyard Locked]

You know what I know almost nothing about? Exalted.

When I think of Exalted, the first thing I think of is this eye-popping subcultural punchline:

Spoiler: Large NSFW image

The second thing I think about is people verbally (perhaps even physically) rending each other asunder over the 3rd edition of it. The third thing I think about is the many complaints about having to roll fishing nets full of dice. The fourth thing I think about is a meme about some Exalted PCs being able to kill other people with the concept of children's joy and other abstract weapons. The fifth thing I think about is numerous unflattering comparisons to late-stage 3rd edition D&D.

My lack of knowledge on the subject has left me out of many interesting gaming conversations, sort of how my lack of knowledge of motor vehicles leaves me unable to interact with some relatives. The last time I really cared about cars was when I was trying to collect these guys (the race car was a real female dog to find in Hong Kong for some reason):

Living in New York City means I haven't had to touch a steering wheel since my driver's license in 1999, which is fine by me. I save a lot of money on vehicle ownership, though if I ever have to move somewhere else in the country I'm probably screwed. Then again, self-driving cars are apparently just on the horizon, so if I'm willing to trust K.I.T.T. I may successfully skip that entire aspect of life.

So, how do you folks feel about these things?

 

[K_Peterson]

I have more of an appreciation for cars than I do Exalted. But not a great deal more.

I can appreciate a nice car; I enjoy watching episodes of Top Gear and The Grand Tour; I'd like to buy a newer and nicer car (even though nearly all my commuting is by bus); but, I wouldn't say that I'm a big car enthusiast. When I see a sports car or super car in person, or on TV, I'll think whoaahh. But that's really it. With other types of cars I think of function over form.

I know nothing about Exalted. It doesn't look like the type of Rpg that would appeal to me, any edition of it. For that matter, I've never played any Rpg produced by White Wolf (or its brands produced by other companies). I dropped out of gaming after high school and totally missed White Wolf's big splash in the gaming scene. When I returned to gaming (about 8 years later), their products were foreign to me, and have remained so.

I guess I miss out on some gaming forum discussions because of this gap in my gaming knowledge, but it doesn't really bother me. There's plenty of other gaming conversations that do interest me. I don't feel like I need to be an authority on every style of gaming, every Rpg produced, and every game-community controversy.

 

[The Butcher]

I approach cars like I approach game systems: I want to get from point A to point B with minimal fuel consumption, minimal maintenance, and some comfort if possible.

All editions of Exalted fail at all three. Attention-guzzling, high-maintenance and uncomfortable AF.

I’d put the Godbound engine under the Exalted chassis (setting) but really, despite compelling core ideas, it’s got enough über-NPCs to make Ed Greenwood blush.

 

[Endless Flight]

That cover is something else and I don’t mean that in a hawt way.

 

[Bunch]

I have more of an appreciation for cars than I do Exalted. But not a great deal more.

I can appreciate a nice car; I enjoy watching episodes of Top Gear and The Grand Tour; I'd like to buy a newer and nicer car (even though nearly all my commuting is by bus); but, I wouldn't say that I'm a big car enthusiast. When I see a sports car or super car in person, or on TV, I'll think whoaahh. But that's really it. With other types of cars I think of function over form.

I know nothing about Exalted. It doesn't look like the type of Rpg that would appeal to me, any edition of it. For that matter, I've never played any Rpg produced by White Wolf (or its brands produced by other companies). I dropped out of gaming after high school and totally missed White Wolf's big splash in the gaming scene. When I returned to gaming (about 8 years later), their products were foreign to me, and have remained so.

I guess I miss out on some gaming forum discussions because of this gap in my gaming knowledge, but it doesn't really bother me. There's plenty of other gaming conversations that do interest me. I don't feel like I need to be an authority on every style of gaming, every Rpg produced, and every game-community controversy.

I think you and I must be within a year or two age wise because I was going to say the same thing about White Wolf. Completely missed it and never had the urge to go back and look at it.

I used to be a car guy but now I drive a minivan. I do get a laugh that in my traffic infested city I'm far more likely to be breaking the speed limit with my kids than the Ferrari in the fast lane stuck in 10 mph traffic. Go carpool lane!

 

[Ladybird]

I can appreciate a nice car; I enjoy watching episodes of Top Gear and The Grand Tour; I'd like to buy a newer and nicer car (even though nearly all my commuting is by bus); but, I wouldn't say that I'm a big car enthusiast. When I see a sports car or super car in person, or on TV, I'll think whoaahh. But that's really it. With other types of cars I think of function over form.

I wound up getting Amazon Prime mainly for TGT, and I was really disappointed with the first series; it all felt artificial and fake, like everyone was trying too hard, and James May seemed almost superfluous for a lot of it. I know New Top Gear was almost always incredibly tightly scripted, but at least they tried to hide it originally. Still, the first episode of series 2 was all right, a good mix of mucking around, serious car porn, and top banter; could have maybe done without the random celeb bit, but okay, at least it's not Celebrity Brain Crash. I'm interested in seeing what they do to get around losing their test driver; The American was just bad the way that he was wrote, and they missed a glorious opportunity to have an actual performance driver talk about the car for a minute or two.

Top Gear was also good this year, Harris / LeBlanc / Reid are a good trio of presenters, and it felt like they were trying to make the show their own rather than awkwardly wedge into Clarkson / Hammond / May's roles. Looking forward to seeing where they go with it.

I drive a tiny Hyundai hatchback, though, which is small and slow but it is also cheap which is a powerful motivator; any more car than that would just be a waste of money, and I don't even drive anywhere where it could be fun. I used to have a Vauxhall Corsa until it died in the manner traditional for it's kind; I rolled it.

re : Exalted, I've played some of 1E and it was okay, but I hate dice pool mechanics in general (They're the crate of game mechanics, what you go to when you've creatively given up on the project); and while there's enough to Shadowrun or Vampire or Star Wars that I'll play despite them, that didn't seem to be the case with Exalted. Maybe it was just the GM, I don't know, but I've never been interested enough to try it again, and what I hear about the complexity makes it seem very much Not For Me.

...but geez, that cover is awful. If there was some logic behind it, it might rise to just being bad; as it is, it's just some wank fodder stuck on the front of a book. It's not even a good cover; it doesn't say anything to make me excited about the content within. The nicest thing I can say about it is that it's not "three people standing in front of a gradient fill".

 

[K_Peterson]

I wound up getting Amazon Prime mainly for TGT, and I was really disappointed with the first series; it all felt artificial and fake, like everyone was trying too hard, and James May seemed almost superfluous for a lot of it.

I thought that there was some awkwardness to the first season of TGT, but overall, I enjoyed it. I'm hoping that they tighten the show up for the second season.

Top Gear was also good this year, Harris / LeBlanc / Reid are a good trio of presenters, and it felt like they were trying to make the show their own rather than awkwardly wedge into Clarkson / Hammond / May's roles.

I haven't watched TG since Clark/Hammond/May left. For me, they were Top Gear, and I think I'd be sorely disappointed by new presenters. Years ago, I watched a few episodes of Top Gear America and thought it was awful.

re : Exalted, I've played some of 1E and it was okay, but I hate dice pool mechanics in general

I don't mind dice pools if they're reasonable-sized. WEG Star Wars, Silhouette - both reasonable dice-pool systems. But I have no interest in rolling more than a handful of dice, much less many handfuls or more.

 

[Ronin]

I never have and do not foresee ever being interested in Exalted. I only know dribs and drabs about it, but it really doesn't interest me.
As for cars, hell yes! I love'm. Besides my personal interest its my job as well. I work as a parts counter person at a dealership. I love new stuff (I'm looking at you 2018 Shelby GT500) and old (Hello you beautiful little Shoebox Ford). But I really like ol skool hotrods! 32 Ford coupe, top chopped off, white wall tires on steel rims with chrome moon caps, powered by a flathead v8, with triple Stromberg 97 carbs, and lake style headers is my favorite flavor of vehicle. Unfortunately my budget doesn't match my dreams. So I bomb around the two lane blacktop world in my unassuming 08 F-150.

 

[Shipyard Locked]

Ha! The notorious camel toe pic;

Hmm, I thought that was a seam in the material, like on the boots or near the edges of that boob-covering bib-thing. Surely they didn't dare go that far?

 

[Bunch]

Ha! The notorious camel toe pic; that's about the full knowledge I have of Exalted, I know a few other bits from reading other people's conversations about it.

Cars, yeah, I was a gearhead for a long time, even had a speedshop in California for around ten years. My daily driver was 71 Chally w/440 magnum, black on black, pass anything but a gas station. I raced an A body Cuda too; not that this means anything to anyone, it was fun for a while, helped put my kids through college. I'm pretty much done wrenching on rides, if I wanted back into it all, I'd go buy a new Challenger, except that's a lot of money, trouble, gas guzzling I don't need. Oh wait, is that '69 C10 w/a mouse on fb for fifteen hundred?

I swore at one point my next car would be a mid 60's pickup truck with a straight six. Something I could easily work on with a huge engine bay so I wouldn't have to kill myself to get at everything. Never did it. I think I moved to LA and bought a Jeep instead. Handy for some of the LA curb heights.

 

[Ladybird]

I haven't watched TG since Clark/Hammond/May left. For me, they were Top Gear, and I think I'd be sorely disappointed by new presenters. Years ago, I watched a few episodes of Top Gear America and thought it was awful.

I only saw a few episodes of the first series of Top Gear America, and I wasn't impressed either. I've heard that eventually they stopped using the studio format and just did road trips and that was pretty cool. I guess it helps that America was basically designed for epic road trips...

I do see what you mean regarding the presenters... but they were going to leave in a few years anyway (According to May, they were about to sign for another three years and then call it a day, before the fracas - and the Amazon contract is for three years, so I can't see them going past that), so this was eventually going to happen. But still, I think it's worth giving series 24 a shot (Don't bother with 23, unless any of the cars really interest you - it wasn't good); it's overall one of the better series for quite a while.

 

[Baulderstone]

Hmm, I thought that was a seam in the material, like on the boots or near the edges of that boob-covering bib-thing. Surely they didn't dare go that far?

Even if it is a seam, it's existence is purely the choice of the artist, and they had to know what they were making it look like. The entire picture is composed to draw your eye to her crotch, so everything about it deliberate. If one of the soldiers in the background had a helmet that looked vaguely like a penis, that might be inadvertent, but everything about that crotch piece is intentional.

 

[Ronin]

Ha! The notorious camel toe pic; that's about the full knowledge I have of Exalted, I know a few other bits from reading other people's conversations about it.

Cars, yeah, I was a gearhead for a long time, even had a speedshop in California for around ten years. My daily driver was 71 Chally w/440 magnum, black on black, pass anything but a gas station. I raced an A body Cuda too; not that this means anything to anyone, it was fun for a while, helped put my kids through college. I'm pretty much done wrenching on rides, if I wanted back into it all, I'd go buy a new Challenger, except that's a lot of money, trouble, gas guzzling I don't need. Oh wait, is that '69 C10 w/a mouse on fb for fifteen hundred?

It means something to me! While I'm a blue oval boy, old MOPAR iron is seriously cool. 440 is a work horse and a good runner. I have always been partial to a 426 max wedge with cross ram intake. Kinda rare, but kinda freaking sweet! Cudas are bad ass, I love the strobe stripes on some of them. Like SS stripes and hood scoops, just screams bad ass.

 

[Ronin]

I agree, cars (of any make) dont have the class and style of years past, anymore. But realistically cars today are more efficient, reliable, and more powerful. They just don't have any soul.

 

[Bunch]

I agree, cars (of any make) dont have the class and style of years past, anymore. But realistically cars today are more efficient, reliable, and more powerful. They just don't have any soul.

I think this happens every time we get an obsession with fuel economy and before enough efficiency improvements come about to allow for design beyond maximum aerodynamics. Give it a few years and I think we'll see a return of style.

 

[noman]

Look upon my wall of text, ye hungover, and despair!

So, how do you folks feel about these things?

Exalted

Exalted is the Mountain Dew of RPGs. People either love it or dislike it. And like Mountain Dew, Exalted is sugary sweet, bubbly, gets you going, and gets you where you want to go. And it's not mainstream either. You don't just walk into some place that serves sodas and order a Mountain Dew; you get a Coke or Pepsi. Ever try go order a Mountain Dew at a restaurant that serves sodas? They look at you like you're an idiot. Similar reaction I get when I say I like Exalted. It's the sort of thing you have to commit to. You have to buy it in bulk, or get it from some cheap fast food place, or something like that.

People who drink Mountain Dew are only really comfortable drinking it with other people you also drink Mountain Dew.

Just like Exalted.

And the thing is, it's not that great at first. The color looks like laminated piss, the flavor, is...weird. It doesn't have the bite that a Coke has, but is sweater than a Pepsi.

But the more you drink it, the more it grows on you. It draws you in. It seduces you. The more you drink it, the more you want it. And soon , you come to the realization that it's the only soda you ever want to drink. That's it's the best soda, and those people who don't like it don't really know what they're missing.

Just like Exalted.

And many people, who would never be caught dead drinking Mountain Dew, are happy to mix it with other things, most notably cocktails (a Dew Me will get ya drunk!).

Just like Exalted.

How many people are running the Exalted setting using some other ruleset? Godbound? Fate? etc. Why? Why go to the trouble? I mean, if you are turned off by E3's rules, just run Gods of the Fall for Hell's sake! It's just like Exalted's setting (if Exalted's setting was a dark, broodier, hellscape murderyard that hates you) with a much lighter ruleset.

But nooo! They won't run Gods of the Fall because something something Cypher System, something something Monte Cook, and something something GM intrusions.

To which I reply, "Drink this Mountain Dew. Drink it! Do it! DO IT!"

Because it's a Mountain Dew. It's not a Coke, or a Pepsi, or a beer, or even a Dew Me. It's a Mountain goddamn Dew, and it's delicious and fun! Either drink it, appreciate it for what is is, or FO and drink a coke with the rest of of the losers.

Cars

When I was a kid, I never really got cars. It was something I used to get me to jobs and dates.

That changed while I did the whole popo thing. Suddenly, cars took on a whole new significance.

It's funny. I didn't really get the importance of it all until much later. You take this job, and somebody with authority slaps a badge on your chest, gives you a gun, and tells you go out there and enforce the law. And I'm like, "Isn't there somebody else more qualified?"

And the Top Cop is like: "No, son. There isn't. Now go get 'em! Oh, and by the way, here's this really expensive car we want you to drive. It's not yours; it belongs to the County, so try to take care of it, m'kay?"

You quickly realize that car is more than just what you use to get from call to call. It's a transport, an interceptor, a public relations tool, my office cubicle (where I answered calls via radio and phone, did my reports, ate lunch, etc.), an actual use of coercive force (people's behavior changes when a cop, or a cop car, becomes visible), my mobile supply unit (with all my extra ammo, first aid stuff, emergency stuff, etc.), and a defensive platform in the event things got hairy (hide behind the engine block if taking fire). It's your all in one lifeline to everything you do.

I quickly realized that this thing was important. I came to think of it like one of the tools on my duty-belt, and sought to keep it clean and it good condition. I tried to learn about cars in general, as it was often necessary to be able to identify the make and model of various vehicles that were suspects in a crime. In this manner, I began to educate myself somewhat. I was, and am, no expert, by any measure. But I learned enough to get by.

Other guys were changing their own oil. I was just happy to be able to check mine. Other cops, the old guys, would get into a pursuit, driving at 110 mph, with one hand on the steering wheel while smoking a cigarette in the other, flicking the ashes out the open window, while tracking the car they're chasing through mirror aviation sunglasses with the mirror on the inside. Me? I'm white knuckle, both hands on the wheel, full concentration mode, Dear God Don't Let Me Hit A Civilian Get This Bastard Arrrrrg!!!

Some of my best experiences on the job was in that car. Rolling through the Hood with the windows down, chatting up the local thugs. Patrolling the neighborhoods on Halloween night, lighting up the blue lights for the benefit of the kids and doing the whole PR thing. Enjoying a quiet moment at three in the morning, eating my lunch in the middle of an old graveyard because nobody is going to go in there to ambush me. Fun.

I learned how dangerous cars are. Automobile accidents are a leading cause of death in the US, and I got to see much of that first hand.

Over time, I developed both a respect and dread for automobiles.

I'm a civilian now (thank the gods), but I still pay attention to the cars around me: their make, model, how people drive, etc. I'm very interested in the technological changes in the automobile industry. I'm enthusiastic about most of it, and very unhappy with some of it, but it is what it is. New tech brings change, both good and bad. I have to accept both for what they are, make the best of it, and enjoy the ride.

Just like Exalted.

 

[Nick J]

Mountain Dew is shit.

That's an objective truth.

 

[Baulderstone]

Ever try go order a Mountain Dew at a restaurant that serves sodas? They look at you like you're an idiot. Similar reaction I get when I say I like Exalted. It's the sort of thing you have to commit to. You have to buy it in bulk, or get it from some cheap fast food place, or something like that.

I went through a Mountain Dew phase when I was a teen. The real reason nobody orders Mountain Dew in restaurants is that fountain Mountain Dew is usually awful (more than usual!). Fountain pop is always an iffy proposition, but Mountain Dew is especially bad when they don't get the mix right.

Godammit, Noman! Now we have turned this thread in a food and beverage thread as well. Don't tell me you didn't know what were you were doing with that analogy.

 

[noman]

I went through a Mountain Dew phase when I was a teen. The real reason nobody orders Mountain Dew in restaurants is that fountain Mountain Dew is usually awful (more than usual!). Fountain pop is always an iffy proposition, but Mountain Dew is especially bad when they don't get the mix right.

This is quite true. I never drank the stuff unless it came from a bottle or can.

Godammit, Noman!

Now we have turned this thread in a food and beverage thread as well. Don't tell me you didn't know what were you were doing with that analogy.

You're too clever, Baulderstone. Too clever indeed! You saw through my devious plot. No matter. The seeds have already been sown. Now they sprout wicked weeds that will overtake this forum.

Soon, my diabolical noman powers will convert every thread on this forum into a food and drink thread! EVERY THREAD! And that's only the BEGINNING! From here, it shall spread to Pundit's forum, and The Purple Site, and even the Onyx Path forums, where talk of how awesome Exalted 3E is will be replaced with tales of sugary carbonation! AND THAT's ONLY THE BEGINNING!

I'll overtake the ENTIRE RPG HOBBY with talk of food and drink! I'll destory it from the inside! Corrupt it with the dark powers of American Obesity!

And nothing will stop me! Nothing! NOTHING!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *Deep breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...cough, cough...HAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[noman]

Preach. As a Firefighter/First Responder, 90% of calls involved first aid to injured motorists, then I became a statistic at an accident being hit by a drunk driver, I was the flagman.

Dude, that's both true and sucks.

If I had a dime for every time some asshole nearly ran me down while I was directing traffic, I'd have sixty cents.

You guys want to be cured of talking about food? I remember the first time someone vomited in my mouth while giving them CPR: cheap beer, cheeseburgers, and cigarettes... yum.

Some people pay for that kind of service you know.

 

[Baulderstone]

Preach. As a Firefighter/First Responder, 90% of calls involved first aid to injured motorists, then I became a statistic at an accident being hit by a drunk driver, I was the flagman.

You guys want to be cured of talking about food? I remember the first time giving someone CPR that they vomited in my mouth: cheap beer, cheeseburgers, and cigarettes... yum.

I'm up for talking about vomit. I have crippling stomach problems, so I do it on a regular basis. One thing that helps the abdominal cramping is taking coated pills with peppermint oil in them. The coating stops the oil from getting broken down so it can soothe my whole digestive tract.

The weird thing is when I puke after taking one of those. My puke is all minty fresh. It feels like I just brushed my teeth.

I had a paramedic in my gaming group in Chicago in the '90s. He's always show up with some fresh takes of horror at every session or when he stopped by my store. One that stays in my mind involves peeling a putrefying corpse off carpet during Chicago's incredibly humid August. The punchline to the story was the discovery all the stab wounds on the side of him that was stuck to the carpet.

I have complete admiration for people that can deal with shit like that every day. Well, the people that respond, that is. Not the guy that made the stab wounds.

Is this where you wanted things to go, Noman? Poor Shippy just wanted to talk about Exalted and robots that turn into cars, but look where you have lead us. Monster.

 

[noman]

Is this where you wanted things to go, Noman? Poor Shippy just wanted to talk about Exalted and robots that turn into cars, but look where you have lead us. Monster.

I honestly feel bad about it.

I've noticed some of my posts seem to take a discussion away from the OP. Not always, but sometimes, and strangely, often on Shipyard's threads.

I don't do this on purpose. I write a post hoping it's relevant or funny, and sometimes it works, sometimes it falls flat, and sometimes it starts a divergent discussion. Most of the time I'm just doing a bit; I'm not looking to troll or hijack or anything like that.

*Shrugs*

I guess chaos...ah...finds a way.

 

[TristramEvans]

Never cared for driving. I got my license at 16, had my first car for 2 years, and since then have lived in large cities where driving isn't in anyway necessary. I walk most everywhere, or take the skytrain if needs be. And I have GFs with cars. I'm just not a car guy.

As for Exalted. I read the first edition, and I couldn't really get into the aesthetics. I saw the appeal to players, but there just wasnt anything to sink my teeth into. The one exception was a single supplement for the first edition, The Fair Folk, which I found full of fascinating ideas, that didnt mesh with the overall game at all, but still provided tons of inspiration.

I never kept up with Exalted after that. So missed 2nd edition entirely, and don't even know what the drama surrounding third was.

 

[Bunch]

This is quite true. I never drank the stuff unless it came from a bottle or can.



You're too clever, Baulderstone. Too clever indeed! You saw through my devious plot. No matter. The seeds have already been sown. Now they sprout wicked weeds that will overtake this forum.

Soon, my diabolical noman powers will convert every thread on this forum into a food and drink thread! EVERY THREAD! And that's only the BEGINNING! From here, it shall spread to Pundit's forum, and The Purple Site, and even the Onyx Path forums, where talk of how awesome Exalted 3E is will be replaced with tales of sugary carbonation! AND THAT's ONLY THE BEGINNING!

I'll overtake the ENTIRE RPG HOBBY with talk of food and drink! I'll destory it from the inside! Corrupt it with the dark powers of American Obesity!

And nothing will stop me! Nothing! NOTHING!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *Deep breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...cough, cough...HAHAHAHAHA!!!

I think I'll see if I can feed the geese mountain dew. Probably kill the evil bastards.

 

[TristramEvans]

I think I'll see if I can feed the geese mountain dew. Probably kill the evil bastards.

add in some alka-seltzer

 

[Bunch]

add in some alka-seltzer

The priest at my church growing up told us how he did that to some seagulls as a kid. The sight of them flying off and dying haunted him the rest of his life.

 

[TristramEvans]

The priest at my church growing up told us how he did that to some seagulls as a kid. The sight of them flying off and dying haunted him the rest of his life.

Yeah, its pretty cruel, even for geese. Guns and axes seem more humane.

 

[Bunch]

Yeah, its pretty cruel, even for geese. Guns and axes seem more humane.

I'm not into that intentional cruelty. It's easy enough to be cruel by accident.

 

[The Butcher]

You guys want to be cured of talking about food? I remember the first time someone vomited in my mouth while giving them CPR: cheap beer, cheeseburgers, and cigarettes... yum.

Oh man, I've been there. Not quite as gross (no mouth to mouth) but you should see (and smell) the stuff one finds inside the abdomen of a homeless person with a perforated stomach ulcer.

Didn't cure me of my food obsession, unfortunately.

 

[Baulderstone]

I think I'll see if I can feed the geese mountain dew. Probably kill the evil bastards.

I don't know. That sounds like an early scene from some low-budget Gremlins ripoff.

 

[TristramEvans]

 

[noman]

So missed 2nd edition entirely, and don't even know what the drama surrounding third was.

The drama comes in two forms.

The first is general, RPG haterade. "Hey! Look at this game system (E3) that I don't like but some other people do! I think I'll spend a lot of time trash-talking it!"

The second, which is a legitimate criticism, is the E3 post-Kickstarter rollout was a dumpster-fire dropped from a large building to land on an orphanage. Meaning the production of E3 related books was a ongoing clusterfuck for years. There were a variety of reasons for this, incompetence and health issues being the big two.

The good news is it looks like they're getting their crap together. Two books have been produced, the latest being a much-needed expansion for the the crafting rules that has been well-received.

It's hopeful for E3's future. And in this instance I'm not a haterade guy as much as I'm a fan of hopium.

Also, biscuits and jam.

 

[Baulderstone]

The second, which is a legitimate criticism, is the E3 post-Kickstarter rollout was a dumpster-fire dropped from a large building to land on an orphanage. Meaning the production of E3 related books was a ongoing clusterfuck for years. There were a variety of reasons for this, incompetence and health issues being the big two.

Don't forget the avoidance of any serious playtesting because they needed to keep the system super secret, while simultaneously having the manuscript leaked. Then they restricted playtesting even more to a tiny circle of people that couldn't hope to have a chance of looking at the thing with the objectivity required of a playtest, and they had another leak.

I'm with you though. I get no particular joy from games failing, so while I have little interest in Exalted, I'd like to see it get things together.

 

[TristramEvans]

The second, which is a legitimate criticism, is the E3 post-Kickstarter rollout was a dumpster-fire dropped from a large building to land on an orphanage. Meaning the production of E3 related books was a ongoing clusterfuck for years. There were a variety of reasons for this, incompetence and health issues being the big two.

Funny how often "health issues" come up in Kickstarter fulfillment problems.

 

[noman]

Don't forget the avoidance of any serious playtesting because they needed to keep the system super secret, while simultaneously having the manuscript leaked. Then they restricted playtesting even more to a tiny circle of people that couldn't hope to have a chance of looking at the thing with the objectivity required of a playtest, and they had another leak.

Correct. I'd bundle all of this under the umbrella term "incompetence". That seems to have changed, though, as project management has changed hands. *fingers crossed*

I'm with you though. I get no particular joy from games failing, so while I have little interest in Exalted, I'd like to see it get things together.

Agreed. E3 is a good game for what it is, and it has a lot of potential to grow. While I agree some of the criticisms of the game, I do think many of them are outdated, relating to its production problems rather to the game itself. it's not perfect, by any means, but no game is.

Funny how often "health issues" come up in Kickstarter fulfillment problems.

Don't get me started.

When I got burned by Simple System, the creator started off by citing health issues. Later, when he realized he wasn't going to be sued, he just came out and admitted that it was too much work and was giving up on the project.

Meanwhile, Miranda Russell is fulfilling the kickstarters her late husband left behind while taking care of her newborn daughter.

 

[Bunch]

Funny how often "health issues" come up in Kickstarter fulfillment problems.

It definitely leaves me with the feeling RPGs are not a healthy hobby. When XXXL is referred to as gamer large it's not a sign that health is ranked high on group values

 

[Ladybird]

Funny how often "health issues" come up in Kickstarter fulfillment problems.

I dunno... I think a lot of people aren't cut out for the amount of work that product development entails, and doing it in such a public way, with backers who are understandably anxious to get what they've paid for (And running all the way from "pleasant but determined" to "utter cunts who think $50 means you owe them your life") certainly can't help their mental health either; even a "successful" kickstarter creator can come out of it hated if the final product doesn't meet fan expectations. In the old days, projects tended to die more quietly, with the only consequences being sad "I thought that sounded cool, oh well " posts on forums if it got cancelled or wasn't very good.

There definitely are some scams, but I think they're rarer than raw numbers would suggest; ambition is the biggest kickstarter killer.

It definitely leaves me with the feeling RPGs are not a healthy hobby. When XXXL is referred to as gamer large it's not a sign that health is ranked high on group values

I was at Warhammer World a few months ago, and bought what I thought was an XL Skavenblight Scramblers tshirt (I know I'm overweight). When I come to try it on, turns out it was only kid's XL

 

[noman]

I dunno... I think a lot of people aren't cut out for the amount of work that product development entails, and doing it in such a public way, with backers who are understandably anxious to get what they're paid for (And running all the way from "pleasant but determined" to "utter cunts who think $50 means you owe them your life") certainly can't help their mental health either; even a "successful" kickstarter creator can come out of it hated if the final product doesn't meet fan expectations. In the old days, projects tended to die more quietly, with the only consequences being sad "I thought that sounded cool, oh well " posts on forums if it got cancelled or wasn't very good.

There definitely are some scams, but I think they're rarer than raw numbers would suggest.

^ This. So very much this.

I get frustrated with KS, especially when I think I'm getting had, but at the same time, Ladybird makes an excellent point. After Simple System, I had to remind myself that KS's are a risky investment, and investments often fail. I gotta deal with it and move on. I'm owed a product, certainly, but that's all.

If somebody says they're slowing down or quitting because of illness, I've got to give them the benefit of the doubt unless there's real evidence the claim is false. Otherwise, I'm being exactly the kind of 'utter cunt' Ladybird describes. No product is worth another's health or life, no matter how much I think I'm owed.

 

[Baulderstone]

I dunno... I think a lot of people aren't cut out for the amount of work that product development entails, and doing it in such a public way, with backers who are understandably anxious to get what they're paid for (And running all the way from "pleasant but determined" to "utter cunts who think $50 means you owe them your life") certainly can't help their mental health either; even a "successful" kickstarter creator can come out of it hated if the final product doesn't meet fan expectations. In the old days, projects tended to die more quietly, with the only consequences being sad "I thought that sounded cool, oh well " posts on forums if it got cancelled or wasn't very good.

There definitely are some scams, but I think they're rarer than raw numbers would suggest; ambition is the biggest kickstarter killer.

On top of all that, if things start to go sour, you can't easily show your face in the gaming community, which for a lot of us is a major social outlet. Losing that has to hurt.

And while we have high profile Kickstarters like the Exalted one that brought in a lot of money, most Kickstarters bring in closer to $15,000. That's not nothing, but it isn't exactly enough money to flee to Rio and live on Easy Street for the rest of your days. I can't buy many of failed Kickstarters were done with any intent to bilk people.

 

[TristramEvans]

I dunno... I think a lot of people aren't cut out for the amount of work that product development entails, and doing it in such a public way, with backers who are understandably anxious to get what they're paid for (And running all the way from "pleasant but determined" to "utter cunts who think $50 means you owe them your life") certainly can't help their mental health either; even a "successful" kickstarter creator can come out of it hated if the final product doesn't meet fan expectations. In the old days, projects tended to die more quietly, with the only consequences being sad "I thought that sounded cool, oh well " posts on forums if it got cancelled or wasn't very good.

There definitely are some scams, but I think they're rarer than raw numbers would suggest; ambition is the biggest kickstarter killer.

Yeah, I'm not saying its necessarily a scam when someone bites off more than they can chew, and I also have strongly stressed in the past that KS is an investment scheme not an ordering service, but at the same time there's a difference between being open and honest about the work taking much longer than initially expected and making excuses. And ultimately, the failure of a creator to do the proper research before engaging in a business venture isnt something that evokes any empathy on my part. There's very few health issues that actually prevent someone from doing work, and even then, its simply one delay among others and probably isnt worth mentioning if someone wants to come across as professional.