The Exalted and car talk thread

[Baulderstone]

I think what finally stopped me worrying about the nail dissolving in coke was an npr piece... It made a comparison with stomach acid where clearly stomach acid is far more acidic than the coke... Nail dissolving way faster in the stomach acid and all that. The layman poses the question to the scientist 'but how does your stomach resist that level of acidity from you and not the acidity of the soda... It seems like your own acids would be burning a hole in you way faster than the soda would..." and the answer from the scientist is 'Yep. Your stomach lining is in a constant battle with the acid inside it. Sometimes the acid wins and we call them ulcers... Are your stomach walls immune to your own acid but vulnerable to the soda? No way.'

I'm also particularly enamored with the fact that the brand on the can in the picture above is Tab. When choosing sides in the cola war, hell doesnt choose coke or pepsi. its Tab and RC for these boys.

It doesn't reassure me as my teacher didn't flub the script on this one. He said the correct line, which is, "Imagine what this does to your teeth."

 

[Ladybird]

The sweeteners in diet coke(-style drinks) are even worse, but yeah. And I've read articles about people with eating disorders, where regular vomiting starts to cause noticeable dental damage, again due to the acids that come up.

 

[opaopajr]

Awww, Tab. That brings back memories. Next we'll talk about Diet Rite, or abominations like diet fudge soda.

Shipyard, your precautions have failed! The tangents shall not be denied! The tangents have spoken!

 

[Totentanz]

Exalted is in all ways a big game. It's got a big setting, it takes on big questions, and it tells big stories. In all editions, it's got a big system.

Exalted cranks default PC agency to 11. If the party wants to change the world, they will. They might literally rewrite the laws of the universe, ascend to become overgods, or literally dance on the corpse of the word. The changes they enact might not be good ones, or healthy ones, but Exalted is happy to let them do it. There are other games that operate on the same power scale as Exalted, but I've yet to play a game that sets the bar for PC accomplishment higher. This makes it a challenging game to run, and at times a challenging game to play.

Exalted doesn't take the easy way out on anything. It doesn't rationalize actions with objective morality, nor does it allow players to pretend their characters are the "good guys." It refuses to overlook the brutal and repressive nature of Bronze Age cultures and hierarchies. It doesn't let the ST hem PCs in with simple power differential. It takes punitive glee in quashing the conceits and roles of "traditional" fantasy RPGs. You can always toss part of its system, but Exalted wasn't built to do that.

Of all editions, arguably 3rd (the most recent) is the best incarnation. It's got more than its share of warts, many of them completely unnecessary, but it plays without segfaulting at crucial resolution points. I can't even imagine someone lifting the system for use elsewhere, but most fans I know have at least tried to make the setting work in another system, with limited degrees of success.

I love Exalted, but like most of its fanbase, I also kinda resent it for failing to live up to itself at times.

 

[Ronin]

I'm also particularly enamored with the fact that the brand on the can in the picture above is Tab. When choosing sides in the cola war, hell doesnt choose coke or pepsi. its Tab and RC for these boys.

While I agree with the Tab (Thinks about it and shutters) I will not stand by a listen to you disrespect Royal Crown Cola. It's a neat little treat once and awhile. Reminds me of when I was a kid.

 

[Totentanz]

Nah, orange crush and a dirt floor Texas BBQ is where it's at for soda pop.

Kept in a stand-up metal cooler with ice, and they would say "y'all can grab cokes over there." It's possible none of it would be coke products.

</native>

 

[Ronin]

While I do truly bow to Texas BBQ. We've gotcha covered if you'se ever wander up nort here.

 

[Ronin]

Sorry though I was posting in the food thread below

 

[Baulderstone]

While I agree with the Tab (Thinks about it and shutters) I will not stand by a listen to you disrespect Royal Crown Cola. It's a neat little treat once and awhile. Reminds me of when I was a kid.

When I lived in Kuwait for a few years as a kid, there was store near my house that had RC Cola in glass bottles stored so cold that is was slush inside. That was the best drink in the world on a 115 degree day.

 

[Shipyard Locked]

This makes it a challenging game to run, and at times a challenging game to play.

Would you say this is one of those games people talk about far, far more than they ever play it?

 

[Baeraad]

Would you say this is one of those games people talk about far, far more than they ever play it?

I wouldn't - people seem to play it often enough. But it's certainly a game where talking about it is a large part of the fun.

 

[Shipyard Locked]

Shipyard, your precautions have failed!

Eh, it's a pub, not a conference panel.

 

[Totentanz]

Would you say this is one of those games people talk about far, far more than they ever play it?

I'd say there are many people who do talk about it and never play it. One of the jokes on the old forums was "Do any of us actually play this game?" In fairness, most of those people would like to play, but couldn't find a group.

That being said, it's got a pretty robust community online, and plenty of chat/voice games are going on. It's niche enough that in-person play is somewhat rare, from my informal sampling. It's also an intimidating game to pick up. It's hard to recruit for it.

 

[Baulderstone]

I'd say there are many people who do talk about it and never play it. One of the jokes on the old forums was "Do any of us actually play this game?" In fairness, most of those people would like to play, but couldn't find a group.

That being said, it's got a pretty robust community online, and plenty of chat/voice games are going on. It's niche enough that in-person play is somewhat rare, from my informal sampling. It's also an intimidating game to pick up. It's hard to recruit for it.

I've brought this up in relation to WoD before, but White Wolf has always been really good at making game books that appeal to people who don't actually play them. That's not to say that people don't play them. Obviously, there are plenty that do. Based on my past in gaming retail, I just think that Exalted and WoD have higher numbers of customers that don't play than average.

 

[Totentanz]

I've brought this up in relation to WoD before, but White Wolf has always been really good at making game books that appeal to people who don't actually play them. That's not to say that people don't play them. Obviously, there are plenty that do. Based on my past in gaming retail, I just think that Exalted and WoD have higher numbers of customers that don't play than average.

That's fair. WW's marketing was aimed at "non-traditional gamers" for a decent portion of the 90's. And Exalted was explicitly designed to tap into the anime/"weaboo" demo. A nice chunk of the Exalted community I belong to don't interact meaningfully with the wider gamer world.

 

[Shipyard Locked]

I've brought this up in relation to WoD before, but White Wolf has always been really good at making game books that appeal to people who don't actually play them.

I fear that despite my initial excitement, Demon: The Descent is turning out to be this. It's dripping with cool, but actually getting a game off the ground is incredibly daunting for the GM and players. Consider just the following:

- Character gen is super convoluted, with 80+ regular powers and two dozen superpowers that are ALL immediately available (pick four), all have different attribute requirements, and all have mechanical descriptions that are three or four paragraphs long. Then you must choose from barrels of skills and benefits that also have multi-paragraph descriptions, AND assemble a demon form that has seven components from a list of, you guessed it, two dozen options that are one to two paragraphs long each. If you're the GM, you must then invent new special powers that the players will get as they interlock new powers they buy later.

Just imagine trying to induct new players into this stultifying web, and remember that demons were never human so you can't really do a simplified tutorial with humans that become supernaturals.

- Angels, which are primary antagonists that the rules expect you to throw in small squads at the players from time to time, have no generic stat blocks provided - there are some examples of highly ideosyncratic individual angels, but no 'thugs' or 'goons' or 'elite agents'. The process for creating an angel stat block is as convoluted and dense as creating a player demon and uses completely different rules that involve ethereal states of being! C'mon fuckers, a functional bestiary is way more important than a sample adventure.

- I tried to give the CoD way of doing things a fair shot, but once you try to actually lay it all out for ease of use, the prospect of tracking all those condition and tilt cards really does seem like office-level bookkeeping for very little payoff. Never mind trying to remember all the little pluses and minuses in combat rolls. 5e D&D was on to something with those Advantage rolls.

If Exalted is anything like this, I'm not surprised it's doomed to perpetual nichedom.

 

[The Butcher]

I fear that despite my initial excitement, Demon: The Descent is turning out to be this. It's dripping with cool, but actually getting a game off the ground is incredibly daunting for the GM and players. Consider just the following:

- Character gen is super convoluted, with 80+ regular powers and two dozen superpowers that are ALL immediately available (pick four), all have different attribute requirements, and all have mechanical descriptions that are three or four paragraphs long. Then you must choose from barrels of skills and benefits that also have multi-paragraph descriptions, AND assemble a demon form that has seven components from a list of, you guessed it, two dozen options that are one to two paragraphs long each. If your the GM, you must then invent new special powers that the players will get as they interlock new powers they buy later.

Just imagine trying to induct new players into this stultifying web, and remember that demons were never human so you can't really do a simplified tutorial with humans that become supernaturals.

- Angels, which are primary antagonists that the rules expect you to throw in small squads at the players from time to time, have no generic stat blocks provided - there are some examples of highly ideosyncratic individual angels, but no 'thugs' or 'goons' or 'elite agents'. The process for creating an angel stat block is as convoluted and dense as creating a player demon and uses completely different rules that involve ethereal states of being! C'mon fuckers, a functional bestiary is way more important than a sample adventure.

- I tried to give the CoD way of doing things a fair shot, but once you try to actually lay it all out for ease of use, the prospect of tracking all those condition and tilt cards really does seem like office-level bookkeeping for very little payoff. Never mind trying to remember all the little pluses and minuses in combat rolls. 5e D&D was on to something with those Advantage rolls.

If Exalted is anything like this, I'm not surprised it's doomed to perpetual nichedom.

 

[Baulderstone]

- Character gen is super convoluted, with 80+ regular powers and two dozen superpowers that are ALL immediately available (pick four), all have different attribute requirements, and all have mechanical descriptions that are three or four paragraphs long.

Having them all available is the real killer. I have been playing Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate lately, and being a wuxia game, it has a ton of combat techniques; I would say twice as many as Demon. However, you start as a member of a martial sect, and that only gives you access to a dozen or so techniques to start. That's pretty reasonable. The descriptions are pretty to the point as well. When I find myself needing to look one up during a session, I can absorb how it works at a glance.

- Angels, which are primary antagonists that the rules expect you to throw in small squads at the players from time to time, have no generic stat blocks provided - there are some examples of highly ideosyncratic individual angels, but no 'thugs' or 'goons' or 'elite agents'. The process for creating an angel stat block is as convoluted and dense as creating a player demon and uses completely different rules that involve ethereal states of being! C'mon fuckers, a functional bestiary is way more important than a sample adventure.

This is a killer for me. Looking for a "generic NPC" section became one of the things I would do when perusing new RPG books to decide if I wanted them.

- I tried to give the CoD way of doing things a fair shot, but once you try to actually lay it all out for ease of use, the prospect of tracking all those condition and tilt cards really does seem like office-level bookkeeping for very little payoff. Never mind trying to remember all the little pluses and minuses in combat rolls. 5e D&D was on to something with those Advantage rolls.

I always remember a great piece of advice from Unknown Armies. It has a section on combat modifiers, and it says just to think of the overall circumstance and then stick one modifier on it. If a player is trying to shoot someone in a dark alley in heavy rain while running, just slap a single big penalty on the roll. Don't catalog each bad thing, assign numbers to each and then add them. It is something I have carried with me into all games with modifiers since then.

 

[noman]

Shipyard, your precautions have failed! The tangents shall not be denied! The tangents have spoken!

Maybe it's not me. Maybe Shipyard is a Tangent Magnet.

*Hopes it's not me*

Exalted is in all ways a big game. It's got a big setting, it takes on big questions, and it tells big stories. In all editions, it's got a big system.

Exalted cranks default PC agency to 11. If the party wants to change the world, they will. They might literally rewrite the laws of the universe, ascend to become overgods, or literally dance on the corpse of the word. The changes they enact might not be good ones, or healthy ones, but Exalted is happy to let them do it. There are other games that operate on the same power scale as Exalted, but I've yet to play a game that sets the bar for PC accomplishment higher. This makes it a challenging game to run, and at times a challenging game to play.

Exalted doesn't take the easy way out on anything. It doesn't rationalize actions with objective morality, nor does it allow players to pretend their characters are the "good guys." It refuses to overlook the brutal and repressive nature of Bronze Age cultures and hierarchies. It doesn't let the ST hem PCs in with simple power differential. It takes punitive glee in quashing the conceits and roles of "traditional" fantasy RPGs. You can always toss part of its system, but Exalted wasn't built to do that.

Of all editions, arguably 3rd (the most recent) is the best incarnation. It's got more than its share of warts, many of them completely unnecessary, but it plays without segfaulting at crucial resolution points. I can't even imagine someone lifting the system for use elsewhere, but most fans I know have at least tried to make the setting work in another system, with limited degrees of success.

I love Exalted, but like most of its fanbase, I also kinda resent it for failing to live up to itself at times.

This is brilliant.

I wouldn't - people seem to play it often enough. But it's certainly a game where talking about it is a large part of the fun.

^ Pretty much this, yeah.

The problem with talking about Exalted you have to get past the "Exalted is bad / nobody plays it / it screwed up the KS / it's a dead game part of the discussion before you can actually begin talking about the game itself.

The problem with playing Exalted is finding people who want to play Exalted. Because totes crunchy and, like, a zillion charms to choose from. Players get juiced, then crack open the rulebook, then become overcome with information overload and decision paralysis.

These are hard times for crunchy games. I wanna grab a hardcore Hero GM and get some meta-level information on how he deals with this stuff before I run my E3 game.

 

[Totentanz]

The problem with talking about Exalted you have to get past the "Exalted is bad / nobody plays it / it screwed up the KS / it's a dead game part of the discussion before you can actually begin talking about the game itself.

The problem with playing Exalted is finding people who want to play Exalted. Because totes crunchy and, like, a zillion charms to choose from. Players get juiced, then crack open the rulebook, then become overcome with information overload and decision paralysis.

These are hard times for crunchy games. I wanna grab a hardcore Hero GM and get some meta-level information on how he deals with this stuff before I run my E3 game.

Yes, particularly in certain larger RPG communities, the Exalted discussion revolves around the delays and squabbles over the KS, the squabbles the devs and community picked with each other, and now the squabbles that erupted from the change in dev teams. Belonging to the Exalted community can be, for lack of a better term, partisan. And it's hard to actually discuss the game through all that.

And Exalted is a very crunchy game: 900+ charms (individual powers that combine like magic cards) in the core.

I'm not sure what a Hero GM is, but I ran a 14-month Ex3 game, and then assisted with another four month game. LMK if I can help.

 

[noman]

Yes, particularly in certain larger RPG communities, the Exalted discussion revolves around the delays and squabbles over the KS, the squabbles the devs and community picked with each other, and now the squabbles that erupted from the change in dev teams. Belonging to the Exalted community can be, for lack of a better term, partisan. And it's hard to actually discuss the game through all that.

That seems to be the way it is everywhere, these days. The Pub is one of the few places I've found where I can have a resonable disccsion without it degenerating into derp.

And Exalted is a very crunchy game: 900+ charms (individual powers that combine like magic cards) in the core.

It's overwhelming, and I love crunchy games.

I'm not sure what a Hero GM is, but I ran a 14-month Ex3 game, and then assisted with another four month game. LMK if I can help.

Hero system GM.

And your offer is much appreciated; I may very well take you up on it at some point.

 

[Bunch]

We don't degenerate to derp. We degenerate to tangency!

 

[noman]

We don't degenerate to derp. We degenerate to tangency!

Speaking of...

My drink of choice growing up was water. Cool, clean, delicious water.

Then the popo thing started, and I found myself operating 12 to 16 hour night shifts, running on SoBe Adrenalin Rushs, Starbucks Double Shots, Mountain Dew Code Red, and lots and lots of coffee -- prepared by grizzled former Marines and served black. Actual food was an afterthought, and was whatever was available. If I was properly prepared, I'd pack my own lunch, but sometimes it'd be whatever fat-laden local crap that was available.

I was fucking lit, man. Truckers were like, "Dude, ease off the gas." The local thugs thought I was a meth-head. So did my employers, I think, as I was required to submit to a "Totally random drug test" more than any other deputy. Always came back clean, though. 'Cause I was.

High-stress, plus high-caffeine, plus high-sugar, plus bad diet: that shit ruined my health. I mean seriously. It took me years to heal myself using diet, yoga, and meditation. Years. And it was a rough ride.

My advice: use caffeine in moderation and stay the everloving fuck away from the energy drinks.

These days, It's back to water, fruit juices, and herbal teas. #MellowNoman

 

[Vincent Takeda]

Dentist: so do you eat a lot of candy like carmel and gummy bears?
Me: No
Dentist: Do you drink a lot of soda or sugary drinks?
Me: One or two...
Dentist: Cans?
Me: Liters
Dentist: A week?
Me: A day.
Dentist: you gotta cut that out man.

 

[TristramEvans]

I love cool, crisp water. Mainly because it doesnt interfere with the taste of food. I tend to avoid coffee as I never got accustomed to it, so it makes me jittery and gives me stomach pain. I'll drink Earl Grey tea with lemon when its available, and I like chai tea, but I don't find them refreshing like water; a cup of tea actually makes me thirsty, rather than quenching it. Every once in a while, for a treat, I'll have a Dr. Pepper or a Root Beer. Maybe once every 2 months. Orange Juice I drink when I'm feeling sick.

 

[Bunch]

Dentist: so do you eat a lot of candy like carmel and gummy bears?
Me: No
Dentist: Do you drink a lot of soda or sugary drinks?
Me: One or two...
Dentist: Cans?
Me: Liters
Dentist: A week?
Me: A day.
Dentist: you gotta cut that out man.

My life is an attempt to scale back from obscenely bad habits to mildly bad habits.

 

[Ladybird]

My life is an attempt to scale back from obscenely bad habits to mildly bad habits.

The best time to make a change is a year ago, the second best time is today, and the worst is tomorrow because tomorrow never comes.

 

[TristramEvans]

My life is an attempt to scale back from obscenely bad habits to mildly bad habits.

This is why I vape

 

[Bunch]

Mostly though I swap one bad habits for a slightly less bad habits.
I used to buy an ungodly amount of new RPGs and games. Now I buy an ungodly amount of used/thrifted RPGs and games. Probably a 10x savings.
I used to drink gobs of Coca Cola. Then gobs of diet. Then coffee and now probably just a bit too much to average.
I used to eat fast food/restaurant food multiple times a day. Now it's multiple times a week.
I drink tons of water to hopefully stave off a second kidney stone. So far that's working.

 

[TristramEvans]

ditching fast food and soda would actually save a ton of money for games

 

[opaopajr]

Well, I am probably a hummingbird in a human body, hence my love for soda. That's what trans-species? Trans-avian?

 

[TristramEvans]

I'm sure there's an Otherkin term for that

 

[Bunch]

ditching fast food and soda would actually save a ton of money for games

Not if you replace it with sit-down restaurant food and coffee. Tried that. Much more expensive and not too much healthier I suspect. The patrons tend to be more attractive though.

 

[natty bodak]

Nah, orange crush and a dirt floor Texas BBQ is where it's at for soda pop.

With the occasional Peach Nehi when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[TristramEvans]

Not if you replace it with sit-down restaurant food and coffee..

Well, thats true.

Luckily I'm a big fan of sandwiches

Sliced roast beef with jarlsberg on fresh italian?
Prosciutto and maple ham with harvarti on pumpernickel?
Salami and Bresaola with robiola on sourdough?

That is my jam man.

 

[Baeraad]

I hate the taste of water. I tend to go for either orange juice or low-fat milk as my drinks of choice.

...

Yes, water does so have a taste! I'm apparently just the only one who's got a refined enough palate to discern it! :p It tastes like minerals and underground pipes. Blech.

Though it varies with location. There's a place in Italy I've visited a few times that has weirdly delicious water.

 

[TristramEvans]

water does have a taste. But it sounds like the tap water in your area isnt great. And the big secret of the bottled water companies is that most of it is actually just filtered tap water.

 

[Vincent Takeda]

I drink distilled water a lot. I've seen some articles that its bad for you and that it sucks the vitamins and minerals from your body, but its the only water that doesnt taste funky to me.

 

[TristramEvans]

I'm lucky in that the fresh water from the mountains up here in Canada is wonderfully untainted and delicious

 

[Totentanz]

That seems to be the way it is everywhere, these days. The Pub is one of the few places I've found where I can have a resonable disccsion without it degenerating into derp.

It's overwhelming, and I love crunchy games.

Hero system GM.

And your offer is much appreciated; I may very well take you up on it at some point.

Yes, the primary reason I signed up here is the atmosphere. I'm all for people being passionate; I'm a passionate guy. It just feels like many communities have accepted the fallacy that "different viewpoint" is a synonym for "being wrong."

Yes, I found 2e grokkable, despite the size. Ex3's presentation and intricacy make it harder to assimilate, even for a player focused only on their wheelhouse.

Also, is there a built-in multi-quote on this forum, or is that manual?