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Moonglum

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I hadn't realized there was about to be a wave of people seeing this for the first time! I was in on the original kickstarter and have been gaming with the Legacy Edition boxed set (and add ons) for months. It is amazing - the freshest take on the overall experience of table top fantasy gaming that I've seen in many years. That sounds like crazy praise, but it is true: the boxed set finally realizes the original intent that TFT would be a game that fully bridges the gap between the experience of playing board games and the experience of playing roleplaying games, supported with great physical components and easy ways to experience the game at a big range of complexities.
 

Moonglum

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Pretty amazing, isn't it! Have fun playing your way through it all. One of the things I love about TFT is it is just so 'gamey' as opposed to 'read-y' - whereas the experience of exploring many modern games is mostly one of leafing through hundreds of pages of dense text, working your way into TFT is all about the tactile, real-word experience of manipulating the components on the table top and playing through games of ever increasing complexity.

I think a great way to learn and experiment with the core combat system is to propose some crazy situation and play it through to see what happens. Like, what if a giant and a gargoyle and a green slime encountered a 2 hex dragon and a basic wizard and a basic fighter, and they fought on the rubber roll-out wizard map with all terrain features 'on', and the conditions of victory were something crazy, like the winner is whichever side is in possession of some heavy object that has to be moved from the bottom of one of the pits to the top of one of the pedestals. Oh yes, and another of the pits is on fire. Whichever side you think is most likely to win, that sort of situation is a recipe for a really fun, interesting hour of gaming.
 

Gringnr

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Fantasy Trip question: I know that when you "shift", you have to stay adjacent to any figures you're engaged with. But is it possible to shift OUT of engagement? Frex, shifting from an opponent's front hex to their side hex? TIA peeps.
 

Gabriel

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Fantasy Trip question: I know that when you "shift", you have to stay adjacent to any figures you're engaged with. But is it possible to shift OUT of engagement? Frex, shifting from an opponent's front hex to their side hex? TIA peeps.

I'm relatively sure the answer is ... yes???

Since all movement happens first, I think the defender you have shifted behind gets to respond before the attack phase?

It's been a while since I played any Melee or Wizard.
 

Gringnr

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Thank you. A little digging seems to indicate this is something of a point of contention among TFT fans, but the by-a-slim-margin consensus seems to be that you can shift out of engagement (which is how I read the rules). I like this, as it keeps engagement from being a "gimme", and forces both combatants to stay on their toes. But a lot of TFT fans seem to have misunderstood or straight-up houseruled this as "no shifting out of engagement".
 

Moonglum

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The answer is definitely yes. In fact this is a standard tactic people try to employ, particularly in fights with several combatants on a side, where it might be possible to shift to the side hex of a foe who will not feel free to rotate to keep up with you because it would expose them to another foe. If you just follow the exact letter of the law on this rule you will be fine: if you are engaged you can shift to either adjacent hex so long as it keeps you adjacent to your foe, even though it is possible this will bring you into his or her side hex, meaning you've effectively disengaged for free, unless that foe gets to move after you and uses that movement to turn and re-face you.
 

Skarg

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It's definitely yes, you can shift to a side hex, as long as you remain adjacent to all hostile figures who engaged you at the start of the turn.
 

Gringnr

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If I Force an opponent to Retreat, can I still move into the hex I force him out of, even if doing so would take me.out of engagement with other opponents with whom I am currently engaged? Or does engagement trump forced retreat?
 

robertsconley

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Fantasy Trip question: I know that when you "shift", you have to stay adjacent to any figures you're engaged with. But is it possible to shift OUT of engagement? Frex, shifting from an opponent's front hex to their side hex? TIA peeps.
Note the phrase must stay adjacent to all figures to which it is engaged. And yes this means if you are engaged with multiple opponents you can't shift to move around one them only disengage. The only case that I know of where you can shift if you have two opponent attacking you and they are positioned in a way that there is one hex between them. You could then shift into that hex as that still leave you adjacent to both.
1615987019357.png
 

Gringnr

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If I Force an opponent to Retreat, can I still move into the hex I force him out of, even if doing so would take me.out of engagement with other opponents with whom I am currently engaged? Or does engagement trump forced retreat?


Self-quote here, but the answer to this question is you cannot move into your opponent's former hex if doing so would break engagement.

Anpther question: when your figure suffers a -2 penalty to DX due to taking 5 or more hits, the rulebook says it's until your next action. This means same turn, if you have yet to act, or next turn, if you have already taken your action for the current turn, correct?
 

Skarg

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I would say that while you can't Shift to a hex that's not adjacent to someone engaging you, you actually can move out of engagement when following a forced retreat, because it's just one hex, happens outside usual movement, doesn't mention a restriction there, and happens after combat, so you already did stay adjacent for an attack by the enemies engaging you. I'm not aware of any specific rule that says you couldn't do that, other than the Engagement rule, which it seems to me is talking about "during the movement phase", not during the Action or Forced Retreats phases.

For the other question, I would say yes, it affects your next action, and that could be either this turn or next, as you described.
 

Moonglum

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Confirmed; the -2 penalty applies to your action on the same turn as the injury if you have not yet acted at the time of the injury, or to your action on the next turn if you already acted on the turn of the injury.
 

D-503

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Did they ever introduce non-combat magic? I always thought the lack of it a flaw in an otherwise very good system.
 

Skarg

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Yeah, the original Advanced Wizard had quite a few non-combat spells, as well as rules for making magic items and potions. The Legacy edition has even more out-of-combat magic.
 

D-503

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I don’t recall much beyond Illusion spells and even those seemed combat focused.

I’ve never heard of Hexagram. Was that a magazine for the game?
 

Skarg

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Basic Wizard is just an arena game, and has images and illusions.

Advanced Wizard has lots of other stuff, and is included in the new In The Labyrinth, which adds more non-combat spells.

Non-combat spells that were in original Advanced Wizard include: Lock/Knock, Light, Far Vision, Detect Life, Trailtwister, Persuasiveness, Reveal/Conceal, Geas, Glamour, Long-Distance Teleport, Telepathy & Long-Distance Telepathy, Create/Control Gate, Spellsniffer, Words of Command, Zombie, Create/Destroy/Control Elemental, Summon Demon, Open Tunnel, Fresh Air, Astral Projection, Calling, Pentagram, Trance, Write Scroll, Unnoticeability, Cleansing, Insubstantiality, Remove Cursed Object, Curse, The Little Death... if none of that rings any bells, you may not have seen Advanced Wizard.

Hexagram is the new TFT fanzine. There are also a few examples of new spells and other magic posted as articles on the official TFT web site, for example:
 

Voros

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I'm quite happy with the quality of the reissues but have to admit I find the art a disappointment.

The decision to include backers faces in the art was a mistake, no offense but too many clumsily drawn faces of the guy from IT or accounting is the result.

I love the very 70s flavour of the original art and wish they had retained that approach but as unlikely as that is just a more modern feel would have been okay too. Instead we got the worse of both worlds, dated and slightly amateurish (less because of the artists themselves, more because of what they were asked to do).
 

D-503

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Fascinating. Thanks Skarg. I wonder if maybe I haven’t seen advanced wizard.
 

Dyrnwyn

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The decision to include backers faces in the art was a mistake, no offense but too many clumsily drawn faces of the guy from IT or accounting is the result.

LOL, yeah, I'm not a fan of companies that do this in Kickstarters. One of the Shadowrun video games did this for character portraits, and it was really obvious.
 

Moonglum

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I feel like the product line as a whole has great art of a style that is broadly in keeping with the look of the game ca. 1980. You get lots of Danforth pieces, in the book and in the counter art, and the non-Danforth stuff is mostly really good (judged by the standards of game book line art). If 1 is Napoleon Dynamite's sketches of Ligers and 10 is Liz Danforth in her early Tunnels and Trolls era, then I'd say most of this art is in the 8-9 range. It is true that the backer drawings are goofy - sometimes in way that is funny and charming (like the little adventurer dog!) and sometimes in way that is just goofy. But I'm not bothered by it; the point wasn't to try to seize the high ground in the game book art arms race.
 

Gringnr

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Overall, I'm more put off by the errata than the pics of backers.

Still, I'm digging the game so far, which is loads of fun, but not good for the ol' pocketbook.
 

Gringnr

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Can anyone speak to the quality of the Gaming Ballistic adventure titles for TFT? I picked up Adventures, but I was t sure about getting the third-party stuff...
 

Moonglum

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The GB stuff is great; there is a 5-adventure series that fills the role for TFT that A1-3 or G1-3 did for early D+D, and several really good solo's, plus a couple of stand alone adventures that are really fun. GB works very closely with SJG, so their stuff feels more or less like it is part of the official lineup.
 

Gringnr

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The GB stuff is great; there is a 5-adventure series that fills the role for TFT that A1-3 or G1-3 did for early D+D, and several really good solo's, plus a couple of stand alone adventures that are really fun. GB works very closely with SJG, so their stuff feels more or less like it is part of the official lineup.
Thanks! Similarly, which of the old Metagaming adventures would you recommend? Or how about Dark City Games' stuff?
 

Moonglum

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If you are playing the new Legacy Edition, the only old things I'd recommend are the new editions of Tollenkar's Lair and the two Death Tests. They are both relatively affordable and updated to the power scale that is appropriate for new-edition PC's. Grailquest might be the best of the old things that hasn't been updated yet, and it should be playable given its assumed PC power level. Dark City Games has some pretty good things; I'd say you won't go too far wrong with Sewers of Redpoint, Island of Lost Spells and Crown of Kings. But be aware that the rules set differs a bit from 'real' TFT, and the maps and counters that come with DC games are not at the same scale as the new TFT table-top components. I just convert them on the fly, but if you aren't familiar with the game you might find a couple of things confusing.
 

Gringnr

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If you are playing the new Legacy Edition, the only old things I'd recommend are the new editions of Tollenkar's Lair and the two Death Tests. They are both relatively affordable and updated to the power scale that is appropriate for new-edition PC's. Grailquest might be the best of the old things that hasn't been updated yet, and it should be playable given its assumed PC power level. Dark City Games has some pretty good things; I'd say you won't go too far wrong with Sewers of Redpoint, Island of Lost Spells and Crown of Kings. But be aware that the rules set differs a bit from 'real' TFT, and the maps and counters that come with DC games are not at the same scale as the new TFT table-top components. I just convert them on the fly, but if you aren't familiar with the game you might find a couple of things confusing.
Cool, thanks. I have the Legacy Edition. I also have a copy of Security Station, but from what I understand, it's not for beginning characters.
 

Moonglum

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There is a bit of cognitive dissonance between classic-edition and Legacy edition when it comes to PC power level. There are enough new useful talents and spells that a PC with 36-38 stat points can be quite powerful, but there is just no comparison with the 50-60 stat point monsters that used to roam the prehistoric swamps of TFT campaigns. It's a little like playing D+D with an effective level cap of 6 or 8 when you used to play an 80th level fighter/mage using the crazy Arduin rules. The key insight to reach with that comparison is that D+D played with 6th level characters is awesome and D+D played with 80th level characters is a pathetic joke. But, the bottom line is, don't try to play an old-version module intended for PC's with 40+ stat points or you may well get your butt handed to you.
 

Gringnr

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There is a bit of cognitive dissonance between classic-edition and Legacy edition when it comes to PC power level. There are enough new useful talents and spells that a PC with 36-38 stat points can be quite powerful, but there is just no comparison with the 50-60 stat point monsters that used to roam the prehistoric swamps of TFT campaigns. It's a little like playing D+D with an effective level cap of 6 or 8 when you used to play an 80th level fighter/mage using the crazy Arduin rules. The key insight to reach with that comparison is that D+D played with 6th level characters is awesome and D+D played with 80th level characters is a pathetic joke. But, the bottom line is, don't try to play an old-version module intended for PC's with 40+ stat points or you may well get your butt handed to you.
How powerful should a party be before attempting Security Station?
 

Moonglum

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I would say a 3 person starting party (32 points each) should find Security Station competitive but possible. A solo PC probably would need ~38 points, plenty of talents or spells and a couple of items. There is nothing super powerful in there, but three or four encounters that offer a decent chance of nuking a lone PC or even a duo. Three or four modest chances of getting nuked adds up to a likely TPK.
 

Skarg

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One thing to keep in mind with TFT is your characters are not necessarily expected to survive an adventure. The game features doing what you can to hopefully survive.

Security Station in particular isn't a good adventure into which to send your favorite PCs you really hope won't die. But it has guidelines for recommended character levels to send in. Just don't be too attached to them. ;-) Without giving spoilers, it's not really about needing great characters either. It's pretty much designed to create new characters using the rules in Security Station for doing so... and expecting they may or may not die.

And be sure you have the errata for Security Station, as there's a broken link that won't let you out without it:
there are 2 paragraphs replaced:

17: You come to a 3-way intersection. You can go west(184), east(265)
or up the stairs to the north(90).

96: You are in room 303. Project Coordination (see map below). Roll
1 die. On a result of 1-3, go to 339. On a 4 or 5, go to 318. On a
6, go to 52.
 

Gringnr

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One thing to keep in mind with TFT is your characters are not necessarily expected to survive an adventure. The game features doing what you can to hopefully survive.

Security Station in particular isn't a good adventure into which to send your favorite PCs you really hope won't die. But it has guidelines for recommended character levels to send in. Just don't be too attached to them. ;-) Without giving spoilers, it's not really about needing great characters either. It's pretty much designed to create new characters using the rules in Security Station for doing so... and expecting they may or may not die.

And be sure you have the errata for Security Station, as there's a broken link that won't let you out without it:

Thenks. The copy I bought includes an errata sheet.
 

Gringnr

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Couldn't decide which TFT thread to necro, but this one'll do...

Here's a free, 100-page programmed adventure for TFT. I didn't make it, I'm just sharing it.
 

Skarg

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Couldn't decide which TFT thread to necro, but this one'll do...

Here's a free, 100-page programmed adventure for TFT. I didn't make it, I'm just sharing it.
I playtested this.

The "troupe play" design, and the support for other dynamic elements in a programmed adventure, is one of the most interesting design elements I've seen in any game project for several years.

For example, it features situations where none of the players' own PCs are present, but players play other characters doing some action situations, and the results of what happens with them impacts not only those NPCs (who may or may not be met later by the main PCs), but also what the situation will be like that the PCs will be entering into. What happens in each situation tends to shape what happens later in the adventure, and in epilogue situations.

So, that element is similar to one of the main things I like about how I tend to GM, making the game be about dynamic situations that depend on what happens during play due to logical cause and effect.

Note a strong GURPS player/GM who grokked TFT could use this with GURPS too.
 

MoonHunter

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First, wow. I have been a TFT fan since... well ITL and advanced were released. I had not seen any activity about the game since the various kickstarted boxes were announced or SJG released. It warms my heart.

The "troupe play" design, and the support for other dynamic elements in a programmed adventure, is one of the most interesting design elements I've seen in any game project for several years.

For example, it features situations where none of the players' own PCs are present, but players play other characters doing some action situations, and the results of what happens with them impacts not only those NPCs (who may or may not be met later by the main PCs), but also what the situation will be like that the PCs will be entering into. What happens in each situation tends to shape what happens later in the adventure, and in epilogue situations.

So, that element is similar to one of the main things I like about how I tend to GM, making the game be about dynamic situations that depend on what happens during play due to logical cause and effect.

Except for the programmed adventure part, this is how I GM. To keep players engaged at all times they are frequently assigned Non Protagonist Characters in a scene (given some stage direction and info) and they play out the scene with the PC that is there. This can let the game session run 2 to 3 times faster, as the GM is not the bottleneck for action. I also use cut scenes, allowing the players to "see the villains plotting/ threatening each other" and sometimes I have them play out scenes no protagonist character is present for (it was the combat scene when the villains betrayed each other). It is a great way to play as there is more player engagement with the setting and the NPCs.

I wrote about this in my blog with two posts in particular: My Favorite Game Session and How to - easy as 1,2,3
 
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Moonglum

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Love it! This is an amazing labor of love to create such an extensive and thoughtful document and then distribute it for free.
 

raniE

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First, wow. I have been a TFT fan since... well ITL and advanced were released. I had not seen any activity about the game since the various kickstarted boxes were announced or SJG released. It warms my heart.

Kickstarters for the game are happening all the time, including third party stuff. There's a community on Discord I can drop an invite to if you're interested in getting updates about what's going on?

Except for the programmed adventure part, this is how I GM. To keep players engaged at all times they are frequently assigned Non Protagonist Characters in a scene (given some stage direction and info) and they play out the scene with the PC that is there. This can let the game session run 2 to 3 times faster, as the GM is not the bottleneck for action. I also use cut scenes, allowing the players to "see the villains plotting/ threatening each other" and sometimes I have them play out scenes no protagonist character is present for (it was the combat scene when the villains betrayed each other). It is a great way to play as there is more player engagement with the setting and the NPCs.

I wrote about this in my blog.... (which is having issues... so I will post the link later.
 

MoonHunter

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Updated my post to include the Blog Entries explaining play style... now that rpg.net is back up.

Kickstarters for the game are happening all the time, including third party stuff. There's a community on Discord I can drop an invite to if you're interested in getting updates about what's going on?

Please and Thank you.
 
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