The first Moderation Discussion thread of 2023

[TristramEvans]

 

[CRKrueger]

 

[chuckdee]

 

[Acmegamer]

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Ah, Age of Conan mmorpg. Man, I just will never forgive Funcom for dropping the ball on the development on AoC nor on dropping the ball on The Secret World mmorpg as well. Soo much promise and in the end they proved that couldn't build, expand and sustain mmorpgs. Am I bitter? You betcha, fuck Funcom.

 

[chuckdee]

Ah, Age of Conan mmorpg. Man, I just will never forgive Funcom for dropping the ball on the development on AoC nor on dropping the ball on The Secret World mmorpg as well. Soo much promise and in the end they proved that couldn't build, expand and sustain mmorpgs. Am I bitter? You betcha, fuck Funcom.

Though.. yes, to the sentiment (at least I have Conan Exiles now, though it's a different beast), I don't get how it relates to what he posted? Or ... am I missing the joke?

 

[Acmegamer]

Though.. yes, to the sentiment (at least I have Conan Exiles now, though it's a different beast), I don't get how it relates to what he posted? Or ... am I missing the joke?

This...



That's from an event for Age of Conan. Sorry about that.

 

[CRKrueger]

This...

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That's from an event for Age of Conan. Sorry about that.

Leia's slave gear does fit the aesthetic. As does the attitude.

I really liked Age of Conan and Conan Exiles. I particularly like the modding done for Conan Exiles.

One of the problems with AoC was, the rest of the game didn't contain the same focus, depth and detail as the 1-20 Tortage experience. Also the interface design was just...off somehow.

I've been doing MMO's before they were called MMORPG's so at this point I can't summon much stamina for Progression Grinding so I doubt I have many MMO's left in me. Unless someone pulls off another SWToR.

 

[Acmegamer]

Leia's slave gear does fit the aesthetic. As does the attitude.

I really liked Age of Conan and Conan Exiles. I particularly like the modding done for Conan Exiles.

One of the problems with AoC was, the rest of the game didn't contain the same focus, depth and detail as the 1-20 Tortage experience. Also the interface design was just...off somehow.

I've been doing MMO's before they were called MMORPG's so at this point I can't summon much stamina for Progression Grinding so I doubt I have many MMO's left in me. Unless someone pulls off another SWToR.

Yep, after you experienced Tortage, finding the rest of the game world felt rather lacking though it still was nailing the vibe/feel. The Interface and the bugs were really bad as well. They did better with The Secret World in a lot of those areas that they dropped the ball in AoC, but still in the end couldn't deliver a fully fleshed out world.

They ended up abandoning The Secret World for Secret World Legend which just felt gimped. I predicted that it was nothing more than a cash grab and that they'd not follow through though they made a lot of promises. Sadly I was right, they pulled the same crap. So yeah, fuck Funcom.

 

[TristramEvans]

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[CRKrueger]

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Someone should remind these Neo-Pagan whatever they ares that their ancestors would have put their head on a pike for crying like that and not being blackout drunk.

 

[TristramEvans]

Someone should remind these Neo-Pagan whatever they ares that their ancestors would have put their head on a pike for crying like that and not being blackout drunk.

there are legitimately manly reasons for crying, and running out of crab rangoons is on that list.

So is the ending to The Iron Giant and that Futurama episode with Fry's Dog

 

[TristramEvans]

 

[chuckdee]

I've been doing MMO's before they were called MMORPG's so at this point I can't summon much stamina for Progression Grinding so I doubt I have many MMO's left in me. Unless someone pulls off another SWToR.

That's why I like ESO. You can do all of the content without grinding. You can grind and do even harder content and get even better gear, but you don't need it. And even the grinding you do for that gear isn't bad... it's just... grindy.

 

[CRKrueger]

there are legitimately manly reasons for crying, and running out of crab rangoons is on that list.

So is the ending to The Iron Giant and that Futurama episode with Fry's Dog

The ending of the Iron Giant (Giant Robo & Johnny Socko/Voyage Into Space) invokes manly tears at such a glorious death.

A lack of Crab Rangoons just means it’s time to raid China, or maybe San Francisco.

 

[CRKrueger]

That's why I like ESO. You can do all of the content without grinding. You can grind and do even harder content and get even better gear, but you don't need it. And even the grinding you do for that gear isn't bad... it's just... grindy.

Elder Scrolls is very cool, I revisit there every so often.

 

[Tulpa Girl]

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How dare you.

 

[Endless Flight]

there are legitimately manly reasons for crying…
So is the ending to The Iron Giant…

 

[Gringnr]

guys, even obviously in jest, please let's not use homophobic slurs

That I'm aware of, that word is not a slur, and it certainly wasn't intended as such. That having been said, if anyone took offense, I sincerely apologize. I've never seen or heard that word used or categorized in an offensive manner by anyone, gay or straight, any more than the terms, "bear", "top", or "bottom". But, hey, I might be oblivious or out of line here. Wouldn't be the first time.

Edit: I also realize that I don't get to choose how people feel about the words I use or the things I do, so, again, if I jested or posted inappropriately or insensitively, I am sorry. Doing some self-reflecting, and, at the risk of being "that" straight" guy, talking to some gay friends about this. Anyone needs to bitch at me, talk to me, or ask me questions, feel free to do so, here or in DMs.

 

[Jetstream]

That I'm aware of, that word is not a slur, and it certainly wasn't intended as such. That having been said, if anyone took offense, I sincerely apologize. I've never seen or heard that word used or categorized in an offensive manner by anyone, gay or straight, any more than the terms, "bear", "top", or "bottom". But, hey, I might be oblivious or out of line here. Wouldn't be the first time.

Edit: I also realize that I don't get to choose how people feel about the words I use or the things I do, so, again, if I jested or posted inappropriately or insensitively, I am sorry. Doing some self-reflecting, and, at the risk of being "that" straight" guy, talking to some gay friends about this. Anyone needs to bitch at me, talk to me, or ask me questions, feel free to do so, here or in DMs.

No, you’re not wrong or out of line. Twink, bear, etc. are not slurs. Whoever said they were is either stirring shit, or not paying attention.

I’m not gay myself, but I’ve spent more than enough time around friends, and been called “bear bait” personally to know how those words are used.

 

[JAMUMU]

No, you’re not wrong or out of line. Twink, bear, etc. are not slurs. Whoever said they were is either stirring shit, or not paying attention.

I’m not gay myself, but I’ve spent more than enough time around friends, and been called “bear bait” personally to know how those words are used.

Anyone calls me an otter, and I'm out!

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

That I'm aware of, that word is not a slur, and it certainly wasn't intended as such. That having been said, if anyone took offense, I sincerely apologize. I've never seen or heard that word used or categorized in an offensive manner by anyone, gay or straight, any more than the terms, "bear", "top", or "bottom". But, hey, I might be oblivious or out of line here. Wouldn't be the first time.

Edit: I also realize that I don't get to choose how people feel about the words I use or the things I do, so, again, if I jested or posted inappropriately or insensitively, I am sorry. Doing some self-reflecting, and, at the risk of being "that" straight" guy, talking to some gay friends about this. Anyone needs to bitch at me, talk to me, or ask me questions, feel free to do so, here or in DMs.

Yeah, "twink" isn't a slur and I think Tristram was just mistaken.

I think you can probably see why as a mod team of largely het guys (I don't want to categorically assume anybody's sexuality but that's my impression) we may be a bit overly cautious about terms aimed at the LGBT+ community if we're not absolutely sure they aren't slurs. I'm pretty sure this is what happened here and while I can understand it being frustrating I do think overall it's probably better if we occasionally overcompensate in this area.

Especially as (while I don't think this is one of them) there are certain terms used internally the gay community that aren't slurs per se, but can be pejorative depending on context. And I'm not sure any of the mods are set up to judge that nuance tbh, especially taking regional and national variation into account.

 

[Gringnr]

Yeah, "twink" isn't a slur and I think Tristram was just mistaken.

I think you can probably see why as a mod team of largely het guys (I don't want to categorically assume anybody's sexuality but that's my impression) we may be a bit overly cautious about terms aimed at the LGBT+ community if we're not absolutely sure they aren't slurs. I'm pretty sure this is what happened here and while I can understand it being frustrating I do think overall it's probably better if we occasionally overcompensate in this area.

Especially as (while I don't think this is one of them) there are certain terms used internally the gay community that aren't slurs per se, but can be pejorative depending on context. And I'm not sure any of the mods are set up to judge that nuance tbh, especially taking regional and national variation into account.

Yeah, that's my take on it. I don't have any beef. I just want to make sure that if I did cause offense, everyone knows that it was unintentional. Even if the gay dudes I know don't and/or wouldn't take offense to that term, the 'Pub isn't mine or my friends' living rooms. As I said, I've never heard the term used pejoratively, but I'm a straight dude, so I don't know what it feels like as a LGBTQ+ person to hear that coming from a straight person. I defer to the mods here, and am currently reaching out to people I know about this, who might be able to shed some insight on it for me.

 

[TristramEvans]

Yeah, I'm no expert, and I very well may have misunderstood but in the context I thought it was parodying the homophobic religious group and I just didnt want anyone to see it and take it as a slur. But the world is a minefield these days.

 

[CRKrueger]

In the context of MMO's a Twink is a low level character whose player also has a high level character with so much shit saved that they can outfit the Twink always in the best gear available.

If someone calls gay men Twinks that's the first I've heard about it.

 

[Gringnr]

Yeah, I'm no expert, and I very well may have misunderstood but in the context I thought it was parodying the homophobic religious group and I just didnt want anyone to see it and take it as a slur. But the world is a minefield these days.

Ah, your decision makes a lot more sense now lol. No, I was thinking more of the side convo we were having about a sexualized T&T module. My post was meant as an exclamation of lustfulness, presumably from one character to another, rather than some vitriol spewed by a religious bigot. But I can totally see how that would have been inferred, given the broader discussion.

 

[Acmegamer]

In the context of MMO's a Twink is a low level character whose player also has a high level character with so much shit saved that they can outfit the Twink always in the best gear available.

If someone calls gay men Twinks that's the first I've heard about it.

It's much older than mmo gaming in the gay culture, I first heard it around the start of the 1980's. I've also been a big online multiplayer gamer since the start of the 1990's. The term as used by mmorpg players I didn't to run across until the early 00's and made me seriously laugh every time someone used it at the time. I still internally chuckle when I'm playing an mmorpg and someone uses it. Google the term along with gay slang and you can read the definition. I'm on my tablet and don't feel like doing that much more finger typing. Lol

 

[Necrozius]

Phew I thought that this was targeted at my Monty Python image. Comedy from the 70s is rife with outdated terms and sensibilities to modern audiences.

For example, I showed my family the Lumberjack song… then worried about how that could be interpreted today so insisted that the kids not sing that song in public… oof

edit: yes they thought it was fucking hilarious. My wife had never seen that bit and laughed for so long.

 

[thebigh]

I always liked the Philosopher song.

 

[Endless Flight]

I do think overall it's probably better if we occasionally overcompensate in this area.

For the record, I drive a small vehicle.

 

[Stumpydave]

Small is subjective.

 

[Luca]

I'm pretty sure this is what happened here and while I can understand it being frustrating I do think overall it's probably better if we occasionally overcompensate in this area.

If someone wants to get offended, he/she will find an excuse no matter what.
And "context/intention do not matter" is the biggest pile of bullshit ever uttered by a human mouth.

 

[Stumpydave]

Context is key. Language mutates over time so what the word means depends on the speaker's intent. Though those looking to take offense will do so on the flimsiest evidence.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

I don't think anybody has said context/intent doesn't matter. Are people arguing with people on other forums again?

 

[Tulpa Girl]

Eh, while twink is a pretty neutral term with in the gay community, it is sometimes used as a slur outside of it, usually to imply that a guy isn't very manly or macho.

It's much older than mmo gaming in the gay culture, I first heard it around the start of the 1980's. I've also been a big online multiplayer gamer since the start of the 1990's. The term as used by mmorpg players I didn't to run across until the early 00's and made me seriously laugh every time someone used it at the time. I still internally chuckle when I'm playing an mmorpg and someone uses it. Google the term along with gay slang and you can read the definition. I'm on my tablet and don't feel like doing that much more finger typing. Lol

It reminds me somewhat of metalheads adopting the biker aesthetic while being hilariously unaware of why Rob Halford was rocking that look.

 

[chuckdee]

Just a question to make sure of a line...

A few thoughts/gripes about recent game modern game design.

I'm preparing to run City of Lies using the more recent Legends of the Five rings game and I've noticed a few things in the system that I've encountered a few times recently, in particular in 2d20 games but also as a more general feature of more recent games. 1) Universal conflict systems - are...

www.rpgpub.com

There was a descent earlier into namecalling, but later, we were making fun of the argument and the thread was closed. Was making fun of the argument out of line?

 

[Necrozius]

In between the memes, insults were being thrown about, and it was getting a bit nasty, to be honest.

 

[Bunch]

I locked the thread because I couldn't really tell if the comments were in jest or just ignoring it.
It felt to me like it was devolving and not by any one particular person. I could easily have read it wrong so I noted to the other mods they could reopen it if they liked. The thread has not felt kind for a while now and I was hoping it would shift back after my first mod comment.

I'm open to hearing whether or not I made the right call from people's various perspectives.

 

[ffilz]

Yea I’m m not sure what went so wrong there. I don’t know if I said anything out of line. I did feel pretty attacked by a statement suggesting I liked bad games and instead of responding but feeling I couldn’t be totally quiet I used ghd reporting mechanism to blow off some steam.

I would love to tease a reasonable conversation out of that thread but when different views if what types of games are enjoyable are not respected it just turns into mud slinging.

 

[Bunch]

Yea I’m m not sure what went so wrong there. I don’t know if I said anything out of line. I did feel pretty attacked by a statement suggesting I liked bad games and instead of responding but feeling I couldn’t be totally quiet I used ghd reporting mechanism to blow off some steam.

I would love to tease a reasonable conversation out of that thread but when different views if what types of games are enjoyable are not respected it just turns into mud slinging.

That's why I locked the thread. Not you in particular but the general decent into the least charitable interpretations vs opposing debate.

My intent was to only lock the thread long enough to enforce the idea that we all should return to a more civil discourse vs mudslinging. No more than 24 hours is my goal.

 

[chuckdee]

Ok, I was having fun memeing and wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything out of line. Well, other than memeing and not discussing.