The Last Jedi (and related Star Wars talk)

Best Selling RPGs - Available Now @ DriveThruRPG.com
I love those photos.

Oddly enough, despite being an adoring fan of all the movies (ALL of them, even the reviled Prequels) I'm not that excited about this film. I can't explain why. The trailer didn't captivate me as much as any other Star Wars trailer in the past.

Maybe the next trailer will hook me?
 
The second trailer for The Force Awakens was better than the first. I don't expect any different with this movie's trailers. The next one will be the clincher.
 
I love those photos.
Oddly enough, despite being an adoring fan of all the movies (ALL of them, even the reviled Prequels) I'm not that excited about this film. I can't explain why. The trailer didn't captivate me as much as any other Star Wars trailer in the past.

I envy you, because I sadly feel that I'm 'done' with Star Wars and I'm not totally sure why. It goes deeper than apathy or antipathy toward the last two movies.

And I'll back you up on Revenge of the Sith, that was about par with Return of the Jedi (fittingly enough).
 
I'm an adoring fan like Necrozius as well, prequels, Clone Wars, Rebels, the whole nine yards. There's really nothing Disney could do that would ruin how I feel about Star Wars because I was four or five when I saw A New Hope (then just Star Wars) in a theater and it set off my imagination during my formative years. I've said before that I could never repay Lucas for the joy he has given me in my life.
 
And I'll back you up on Revenge of the Sith, that was about par with Return of the Jedi (fittingly enough).

To me it's the music. Revenge of the Sith has my favorite John Williams score ever. Well also Palpatine is fucking awesome. What a cheeky guy.
 
I envy you, because I sadly feel that I'm 'done' with Star Wars and I'm not totally sure why. It goes deeper than apathy or antipathy toward the last two movies.

And I'll back you up on Revenge of the Sith, that was about par with Return of the Jedi (fittingly enough).

I likewise envy anyone who still takes joy in the franchise. Sadly, I no longer do.

While there were elements of the prequels that really annoyed me, I didn't hate them, and they didn't turn me off, in and of themselves. But I could see the patterns, and I knew where Hollywood was going to take the franchise in the future.

And no, I'm not going to explain that. I'm done with Star Wars, and I have formalized reasons as to why, but I won't spew those reasons here, out of respect for those who still love the movies. I wouldn't want to try to take away from that.

It'd sound like haterade and FUD anyway. :sad:

But in keeping with my weird cinema choices, my favorite movies from the originals and prequels were Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith.

Why? Both movies give Sidious a good deal of screentime, and ROTS gave us fragments of backstory. I enjoyed this immensely.

Whenever I talk to people about Star Wars, they always bring up Vader as the key bad guy. They ignore the Emperor (later Sidious) who was the real villain. Vader was just his idiot pawn. I wanted to know more about that guy, not his henchman. :p
 
To me it's the music. Revenge of the Sith has my favorite John Williams score ever. Well also Palpatine is fucking awesome. What a cheeky guy.
Palpatine's awesomeness is actually my problem with the prequels. I don't mean the performance. That's great. It's just the Emperor is the closest thing to a protagonist that the prequels have, and everything goes his way the whole time. Obviously, we knew he was going to win, but the movies could have at least eked some suspense out of it. Instead, he is the only smart guy in the universe, and he effortlessly manipulates all the dum-dums that surround him,

I know it was supposed to be the story of the fall of Anakin, but there isn't much story there. I always thought he was central in betraying the Jedi, but no. Palpatine is so awesome that he can just push a button and have the clones kill all the Jedi. Anakin is just a secondary character that gets too much screen time for some reason.

Obi-Wan gets robbed of his central drama too. In the original trilogy, Obi-Wan is trying to atone for deciding to train Anakin. But we find out that it wasn't his decision. It was Qui-Gon who made that mistake, and Obi-Wan just got stuck with Anakin. Of course the whole thing is deflated anyway because Anakin wasn't that important to the fall of the Jedi anyway.

Anyway, enough griping. I'm looking forward to the next movie. I agree with Endless Flight that the first trailer is just a teaser. They are holding back for the second trailer to really sell it.
 
Leaving all the problems with the prequels aside, taken by themselves they have a fatal flaw. Vader is rather weak and pedestrian as a character played by an actor without any good performances.
At least Rogue One returned Vader to undiluted 100% awesomesauce.
 
I wouldn't say I'm "done" with Star Wars — I did make my peace with the idea that any new movies might be as revolutionary or exciting or captivating as the original trilogy.

But after the tepid prequels and the senseless reskinning of ANH that was TFA, Rogue One at least made me sit up and realize that there's a real chance for storytellers to explore the SW universe in the same manner the old EU (including the Star Wars RPGs) have done in the past.

In fact, I posit that Rogue One could perfectly have been an old school WEG Star Wars session: a motley crew of misfits put together by Alliance heavies for a raid on a strategic Imperial installation, and nary a Jedi in sight (Force-sensitive monk notwithstanding).
 
I enjoyed Rogue One and I agree with Butcher about it being a great RPG session.

The Force Awakens was embarrassing, especially after all the hype. The prequels, which are vastly imperfect, were at least original-ish ideas.

As for feeling the love, I just go to the SW movies and the Star Trek movies to see Space Adventures and eat popcorn. I know Guardians of the Galaxy is equally corporate, but there seems to be far more fresh energy, originality and better acting in those flicks.

If I had to see the movies at full price, I'd probably be pissed. But at $3 at a cheapo 2nd run theater? Can't complain.
 
I know Guardians of the Galaxy is equally corporate, but there seems to be far more fresh energy, originality and better acting in those flicks.
I've said it before elsewhere, but GotG was my favorite Star Wars movie since Star Wars.
A big chunk of it is that the official Star Wars movie felt increasingly weighed down by commercial concerns of their franchise. It became 'too big to fail' and every moment just felt so measured and sanitized.
GotG is a part of a larger franchise as well... but somehow escaped that sort of impotence... it still felt loose and playful (though I cynically expect future installments to sink under the weight of its earlier success).
 
Opinions of the upcoming film aside... thanks for posting this. I hadn't seen this Vanity Fair series, and this shot is beautifully sad.

Ditto this
 
A new poll on the likeability of Star Wars characters find that more people like Jar-Jar Binks than like Kylo Ren.

A new survey conducted by polling and research firm Morning Consult asked 2,200 adults in the United States about the Star Wars franchise, taking stock in topics such as their favorite films and characters. The firm states that people in the age 30-44 demographic responded more favorably than others.

One poll measured the favorability of the characters in the Star Wars franchise. Jabba the Hutt ranked with 42 percent favorability, compared to Finn and BB-8's 39 percent, Rey's 38 percent, and Kylo Ren's 32 percent. Supreme Leader Snoke and Rogue One's Jyn Erso ranked the lowest of the new characters, at 26 and 29 percent respectively.

Leia Organa registered as the most favorable character with a whopping 73 percent. Luke Skywalker, Chewbacca, and Yoda all came in one point below at 72 percent, while R2-D2 ranked at 71 percent.

Interestingly, Jar Jar Binks is viewed more favorably than Kylo Ren.

My 5 year-old nephew loves Kylo Ren.
 
I wonder if it's because it is now "cool" to hate on Kylo Ren. Jar-Jar hate is so '00s.

I mean, I get hating Kylo: he killed Han Solo after all! :cry: But I'm willing to bet that hating Kylo is tied with his flawed, whiny "Millennial" status.
 
I wonder if it's because it is now "cool" to hate on Kylo Ren. Jar-Jar hate is so '00s.

I mean, I get hating Kylo: he killed Han Solo after all! :cry: But I'm willing to bet that hating Kylo is tied with his flawed, whiny "Millennial" status.

I think part of it is it's trendy to hate on the new reboot franchises because they're new reboot franchies. So Kylo hate is > than Jar Jar hate.
 
I like Kylo and I wasn’t upset that he killed Han. I guess I had this meta knowledge that Harrison Ford always wanted Han to get killed off in Empire. But Lucas thought the character had a purpose past that and we see the culmination of that of course in TFA.

I have this theory about the timing of character deaths in Star Wars because of what we see in Rogue One and some of other films but I won’t clutter this thread with it.
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one who recognized that Jyn Erso was a bland character with an unconvincing performance. I confuse her for the similarly uninspired Rey all the time.

I did not care for much of Rogue One, Jyn Erso included. I liked it more than the prequels, but that isn't saying much.

All of the characters felt like tropes with the exception of the droid, and them all dying at the end just felt like a cop-out to explain their absence from the original trilogy, all wrapped in a neat bow.

Rey is about as uninspired as the original film's Luke, IMO. I understood The Force Awakens. It was essentially a reboot to wash away the bitter taste of the prequel trilogy and re-introduce the Star Wars mythos to a new generation. What better way to do that than with some Force-chosen Mary Sue and an even bigger, badder, Death Star? I just hope The Last Jedi builds upon and improves it.
 
Rey is about as uninspired as the original film's Luke, IMO. I understood The Force Awakens. It was essentially a reboot to wash away the bitter taste of the prequel trilogy and re-introduce the Star Wars mythos to a new generation. What better way to do that than with some Force-chosen Mary Sue and an even bigger, badder, Death Star? I just hope The Last Jedi builds upon and improves it.

^ This.
 
I don’t care what anyone says. Daisy Ridley is probably the best ambassador for Star Wars going forward through the next twenty years. I’m kind of in a strange place as a fan. I think I hold Star Wars fans my own age in contempt more than any fan under the age of 25. Maybe it was the “Lucas raped my childhood” stuff from fifteen years ago. Jar Jar ain’t my favorite character but I would feel like doing my best Ahmed Best impersonation around those people.
 
I don’t care what anyone says.

Thats the best way to be a fan. Ultimately, everyone has their own tastes, their own experience of these films , and there's no universal way of talking about them. I envy those who can get the enjoyment from things that I cannot, for one reason or another. Just as I pity those who cannot experience the joy that certain things bring me. We're all individuals, and the interaction between art and the individual, with their singular experiences, tastes, and emotions, is always a unique interaction, that no one else has the capacity to comprehend or judge. This is why I think criticism (which I don't think is a bad thing) always says as much about the critic as it does the thing they are commenting on.
 
UoghyJV.jpg
 
I don’t care what anyone says. Daisy Ridley is probably the best ambassador for Star Wars going forward through the next twenty years.

Nah, that's Finn, BB-8, and Poe.

I think I hold Star Wars fans my own age in contempt more than any fan under the age of 25..

Star Wars makes me feel like I'm 10 again.

That's why the hatred can't flow through me.

I don't know that it has to be so all or nothing. For instance, I don't think of myself as a Star Wars fan so the two most recent films rolled off my back, but I'm definitely a James Bond fan. I can trash View to a Kill or Diamonds are Forever in excrutiating detail, scene, detail by detail, but when I watch them I always enjoy them anyway.

I believe that despite all the vocal minority rage on the net, most fans can operate on two levels that way.
 
I don't have a problem with people who look at the Star Wars films objectively. ALL the films, not just anything that's been released since 1999. I think it's fine to pick out the flaws in the new movies, but if we are honest, let's pick out the flaws in the original trilogy while we are at it. And there are flaws, many flaws. They are willing to take a dump on the new movies, while holding the originals up to some standard that they are not. The Empire Strikes Back is my favorite movie ever, not just Star Wars, and it has flaws. I can tell you that if Return of the Jedi had been released in the last ten years, it would have been beaten to a bloody pulp. I think Chewbacca doing a Tarzan impression is silly, but it's all in good fun. Some people can't take a joke.
 
Most of my favourite films of the last few years are not only flawed in obvious ways that have been picked apart mercilessly, but also tend to be incredibly divisive, with some people absolutely hating them and going on copious ragestorms about them.

I'm thinking here of Watchmen, Prometheus, many of the Marvel films, etc.
 
Most of my favourite films of the last few years are not only flawed in obvious ways that have been picked apart mercilessly, but also tend to be incredibly divisive, with some people absolutely hating them and going on copious ragestorms about them.

I'm thinking here of Watchmen, Prometheus, many of the Marvel films, etc.
Prometheus is a movie where I can agree with most every criticism that is made against, and I still really enjoy it. As I get older, I get better at being acknowledge a movies failings and still enjoy what works.

That doesn't mean I can enjoy everything though. I caught some of Revenge of the Sith on TV the other night, and it still doesn't work for me on any level.
 
It's the flaws that help bring out the beauty of a movie.*

The SW movies to date have flaws. That doesn't mean they're bad movies and people shouldn't enjoy them.

But there's a difference between being flawed and sucking diseased goat testicles. :argh:

It's my sincere hope that SW: TLJ will merely be flawed. :grin:

* Or an RPG, or a person, or...
 
That doesn't mean I can enjoy everything though. I caught some of Revenge of the Sith on TV the other night, and it still doesn't work for me on any level.

I notice the flaws every time I watch it (some of which are bad), but there are a lot of moments in the film that are pure magic for me and that's why I give it a good grade (I'd put it at a B/B- if I graded it). Ewan McGregor's performance alone is enough for me to like the movie. I think out of the prequels, the one I have the worst problems with is The Phantom Menace, and it's not because Jar Jar exists.
 
I've been listening to and reading several reviews and it's been said more than once that Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher give their best performances in this movie.
 
Which is fortunate because it is the least essential one and easily ignored. Ever heard of Machete Order Star Wars?

Yes, I have.

I think if you want the complete story of how Palpatine hoodwinked the Republic, you should really watch TPM. I know that George Lucas wanted people to watch in the numeric order, but I would still sit a child down and watch it 4,5,6,1,2,3,7,8,9. Maybe throw in Rogue One if you are feeling generous, but it's not necessary for first viewing.
 
Just read up on the spoilers and reviews, because why not.

Yeah, I'm definitely in no rush to see this now. I will eventually, because it's Star Wars after all, but I'm ok pushing it deeper into the to-do box next to the newest Star Trek movie and a bunch of mid-tier Marvel movies.
 
I notice the flaws every time I watch it (some of which are bad), but there are a lot of moments in the film that are pure magic for me and that's why I give it a good grade (I'd put it at a B/B- if I graded it). Ewan McGregor's performance alone is enough for me to like the movie. I think out of the prequels, the one I have the worst problems with is The Phantom Menace, and it's not because Jar Jar exists.
Ewan McGregor is the one thing in the movie I genuinely like. It's just not enough to save the movie for me. Part of it comes down to me seeing acting as a collaborative act. Really good acting happens when two or more people are really playing off one another. Ewan McGregor is giving a good performance, but he is stuck in scenes with people giving flat performances, so it never really sparks.

I'm with you on The Phantom Menace being the worst, and yeah, I didn't like Jar Jar, but he isn't the reason it is bad. People often try to find one thing to latch onto the explain why a movie is bad.

It's like how people complain about all the politics in the prequels. There are scarcely any scenes of politics in those movies. I think the movies might actually have been better if there was some real political drama in it. I think Padme and her allies needed to come close to stopping Palpatine for it to have the feel of real tragedy. Instead, Lucas knew Palpatine would win, so he made the mistake of writing the whole thing as Palpatine's easy and inevitable victory.

There is a thing in acting called "playing the ending". An example would be if your character is going to be defeated in the story, you play them as a loser from the beginning. The better choice is to play them as a victor, and then when they lose, it has more power. Playing them as a loser from the beginning flattens the story. Lucas did the same thing from a writing perspective.

There are certainly lots of things I could nitpick in the original trilogy as well, it's just that I get enough pleasure out of them to forgive them. In the interest of fairness and balance, I will make one nitpick about the OT. Over the course of the first two movies, a definite love triangle has been set up between Han, Luke and Leia. It's true enough in the theatrical cut, and it is even heavier in the ESB deleted scenes.

It seems like something that is going to come a dramatic head in the third movie. Instead, we have the reveal that Luke and Leia are siblings, and the love triangle ends with an accepting shrug. Maybe it is because the plans for movies beyond RotJ were scrapped, they just wanted to tie up loose ends as quickly as possible. It's doesn't even come close to ruining the movies, but it feels a it odd.
 
I'll admit though, I'm an unabashed Star Wars fan and I give the franchise a lot more leeway than a lot of other people would. My family and friends basically knows I'm the SW nut out of anybody. My dad took me to see the first one when I was like four or five. George Lucas is one of the top two people (the other is Larry Hama) who shaped my world of entertainment as a child (and even as a 44 year old) who I can never repay. I just love it.
 
Banner: The best cosmic horror & Cthulhu Mythos @ DriveThruRPG.com
Back
Top