The Martial Arts Thread

BedrockBrendan

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I have a couple of mates who do Judo in their forties and they are paying the price now. :smile: I know a lot of trad Martial Artists who are also in a bad way from snapping their punches out with nothing to absorb the impact. It's really bad for the joints.

I think it is the getting thrown with the Judo.

With punches it is hard either way. I've done traditional and done more combat sport stuff. Lately I have been balancing more snapping in the air and using something like a heavy bag or pads (or sparring partner). There is definitely value in terms of balance and technique of snapping in the air. But in terms of injury, I have hurt joints with both methods. With snapping in the air its easy to over extend. With heavy bags, it's easy to destroy your wrists, your hands, and your shoulders. I do find warming up and stretching help. Some people are just lucky or unlucky too. I know one guy whose hip joints are completely deteriorated. I am exactly the same age as him and mine are fine. We did many of the same martial arts.

I don't know if there is a magic formula, but I try to read my body more. When I was young, I would do anything and I didn't worry about injuries. Now I think more long term. About ten years ago, I remember being asked to kick a thick bamboo pipe. I had done it before, with smaller bamboo and similar objects, but this one just seemed too dense (it simply felt like I was asking for problems if I kicked it hard), so I just tapped it with my shin instead of kicking full force like the instructor wanted. Later during the drill he explained that one student had broken a femur on the thing.
 

AsenRG

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So, guys, I have a question for you and I'm sure you'd all agree it's a relevant one.
First Daughter is kinda worried the "class bully" might get to her as well (seems unlikely, and I suspect he wouldn't fight a girl, but I might be dead wrong here). And apparently he's been training "kung-fu" and showing-off kicks, which made her realize that she needs to learn some fighting, after all...:grin:
I think I've seen the guy fighting, seems completely untrained to me.
So what should I teach her?
My current plan is to teach her a simple system of front kicks (mae-geri, not teeps...) to keep the distance, and palm strikes, elbows and knees if he closes. And if they get to the ground...well, she does BJJ. He, apparently, does not. So we just need to work on her sweeps a bit, in case she's the one on bottom:angel:.

But now I'm curious, what would you teach a kid in this situation?
For reference, her school has a supposed "no-violence policy". I plan to engage a lawyer to look into the legality of that, as I'm unconvinced it is legal in my country...:thumbsup:
But for now, it is what it is. And I'm going to wait for First Son to get accepted before engaging a lawyer.
OTOH, I'm 100% sure she won't start it first.

I think it is the getting thrown with the Judo.

With punches it is hard either way. I've done traditional and done more combat sport stuff. Lately I have been balancing more snapping in the air and using something like a heavy bag or pads (or sparring partner). There is definitely value in terms of balance and technique of snapping in the air. But in terms of injury, I have hurt joints with both methods. With snapping in the air its easy to over extend. With heavy bags, it's easy to destroy your wrists, your hands, and your shoulders. I do find warming up and stretching help. Some people are just lucky or unlucky too. I know one guy whose hip joints are completely deteriorated. I am exactly the same age as him and mine are fine. We did many of the same martial arts.

I don't know if there is a magic formula, but I try to read my body more. When I was young, I would do anything and I didn't worry about injuries. Now I think more long term. About ten years ago, I remember being asked to kick a thick bamboo pipe. I had done it before, with smaller bamboo and similar objects, but this one just seemed too dense (it simply felt like I was asking for problems if I kicked it hard), so I just tapped it with my shin instead of kicking full force like the instructor wanted. Later during the drill he explained that one student had broken a femur on the thing.
...the only way I'd kick that thing would be with a forward kick (side or front), connecting with my heel:shade:!
 

AsenRG

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This was a front kick, with your shin hitting the bamboo
I can't picture this, unless the bamboo was set in a horizontal position?
My statement would stand, though - front kick of the smashing variety, contact with the heel. Shin to the bamboo makes no sense to me, there's enough soft targets on the human body:thumbsup:!
 

BedrockBrendan

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So, guys, I have a question for you and I'm sure you'd all agree it's a relevant one.
First Daughter is kinda worried the "class bully" might get to her as well (seems unlikely, and I suspect he wouldn't fight a girl, but I might be dead wrong here). And apparently he's been training "kung-fu" and showing-off kicks, which made her realize that she needs to learn some fighting, after all...:grin:
I think I've seen the guy fighting, seems completely untrained to me.
So what should I teach her?
My current plan is to teach her a simple system of front kicks (mae-geri, not teeps...) to keep the distance, and palm strikes, elbows and knees if he closes. And if they get to the ground...well, she does BJJ. He, apparently, does not. So we just need to work on her sweeps a bit, in case she's the one on bottom:angel:.

I think this very individual. I would be careful with making her overconfident but I also think showing her how to protect herself is a good idea. My preference is to teach basic boxing and fairly safe kicks (nothing fancy). Also if you do teach her kicks, teach her the counters for when someone grabs her leg (for instance you can twist and pull someone into you when they grab your leg to regain control). If she already has grappling and ground knowledge, you probably want her to know how to move for striking and how to understand distance. Also one of the big learning curves for punching is getting people to stop arm punching and punch by torquing their body into the strike. I think maybe one of the most practical things you can do, if you are just going to teach one thing: teach her how to cage and how to bob, weave and parry. For kicks, those can do a lot of damage if the kid is wearing shoes and using his toes or balls of his feet at a striking surface, so I would probably lean on teaching her to avoid kicks (you can teach her blocks but if there is a considerable size difference, she could break her arm trying to block a kick: that was one of the more common injuries I saw in competition).

In terms of the bully with Kung Fu. If you can, I would talk with the school. Find out what is going on exactly. Let them know your concerns. When I was a kid there really wasn't much schools would do about bullies, but these days I imagine they are more likely to step in if some kid is taking Kung Fu to enhance his bullying tactics.
 

BedrockBrendan

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I can't picture this, unless the bamboo was set in a horizontal position?
My statement would stand, though - front kick of the smashing variety, contact with the heel. Shin to the bamboo makes no sense to me, there's enough soft targets on the human body:thumbsup:!

It was horizontal.

The way we did front kicks at this school was the ball of the foot as the striking surface. But this was a shin strengthening exercise.

When I did muay thai, and this wasn't a muay thai school (he was doing this for other reasons), you have to condition your shins because you used them to block kicks. My shins are pretty filled bumpy now. But the way he did it was on a very hard and dense heavy bag (I do think they use bamboo and trees in Thailand for that but I have never done that).
 

BedrockBrendan

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I can't picture this, unless the bamboo was set in a horizontal position?
My statement would stand, though - front kick of the smashing variety, contact with the heel. Shin to the bamboo makes no sense to me, there's enough soft targets on the human body:thumbsup:!

For me front kicks with the heel are usually more for push kicks or teeps. But if I am kicking by lifting my knee and extending my shin and foot into the kick, I like the ball of the foot with the toes pulled back because you can put all that power into a very small space (especially when you learn to get your hips into the kick right). This was the kick the old school TKD guys used to use (and by old school, I mean old school in the early 2000s: so guys who did it in the 70s). I learned to really respect this approach when I was holding pads for someone who did them that way and he struck it so hard, it went right into my gut and made me instantly sick. It was the only time I ever vomited during a class (Made it to the bathroom thankfully). It is one of the most gratifying kicks if you land it well.
 
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BedrockBrendan

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I am in between heavy bags (the old one was so saturated with rain water and grime it sprayed black liquid when you hit it). I am thinking of getting an 80 or 100 pound once to replace it in the backyard, and I am thinking of getting a double end bag for my living room. Anyone know of good outdoor heavy bag brands and does anyone know a good indoor double end bag brand (I don't want to get something that makes the hole house smell like chemicals or plastic if I can avoid it).
 

BedrockBrendan

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Shin to the bamboo makes no sense to me, there's enough soft targets on the human body:thumbsup:!

I wouldn't go with bamboo personally. I was told by a muay thai instructor that if you didn't grow up doing that kind of conditioning, it isn't wise to start later in life (don't know if that is true or not, but it sounded true enough I stuck with it). And I generally tried to block kicks with my elbows rather than shins when I could do so. But Your shins and feet will take a beating if you do any kicking style. Even if it isn't like muay thai using the shin as the striking surface. When I did TKD leg clashes were incredibly common and I saw a broken shin at a competition from that. Most of us got injuries of various kinds from it. It doesn't hurt to have a little conditioning there. The condition I have found most useful is shins of a nice solid heavy bag, and balls of the feet on a nice solid heavy bag. If you can strengthen those up and condition them, it really helps with kicking. Just don't go crazy. My first month of muay thai my shins had goose eggs all over them and it hurt to even tough the bag.
 

AsenRG

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I am in between heavy bags (the old one was so saturated with rain water and grime it sprayed black liquid when you hit it). I am thinking of getting an 80 or 100 pound once to replace it in the backyard, and I am thinking of getting a double end bag for my living room. Anyone know of good outdoor heavy bag brands and does anyone know a good indoor double end bag brand (I don't want to get something that makes the hole house smell like chemicals or plastic if I can avoid it).
...no idea about your question (I've never had where to hang a heavy bag at home), but now I want to add a punch bag that sprays black liquid when you hit it, at a crime scene in an RPG:grin:!

I wouldn't go with bamboo personally. I was told by a muay thai instructor that if you didn't grow up doing that kind of conditioning, it isn't wise to start later in life (don't know if that is true or not, but it sounded true enough I stuck with it). And I generally tried to block kicks with my elbows rather than shins when I could do so. But Your shins and feet will take a beating if you do any kicking style. Even if it isn't like muay thai using the shin as the striking surface. When I did TKD leg clashes were incredibly common and I saw a broken shin at a competition from that. Most of us got injuries of various kinds from it. It doesn't hurt to have a little conditioning there. The condition I have found most useful is shins of a nice solid heavy bag, and balls of the feet on a nice solid heavy bag. If you can strengthen those up and condition them, it really helps with kicking. Just don't go crazy. My first month of muay thai my shins had goose eggs all over them and it hurt to even tough the bag.
Definitely true about the conditioning, and the kung-fu style I've trained does use shin kicks (I've suspected it's actually a SE Asian kuntao variant).
I've just been told it's better to condition the shins using a heavy bag...and it makes total sense to me:thumbsup:!
Also, suffering is part of fighting...:shade:

It was horizontal.

The way we did front kicks at this school was the ball of the foot as the striking surface. But this was a shin strengthening exercise.

When I did muay thai, and this wasn't a muay thai school (he was doing this for other reasons), you have to condition your shins because you used them to block kicks. My shins are pretty filled bumpy now. But the way he did it was on a very hard and dense heavy bag (I do think they use bamboo and trees in Thailand for that but I have never done that).
OK, that figures. And shin conditioning is good...I just don't like this way to do it. Shins filled with bumps doesn't sound like the goal to me, but they also sound as a likely result of such training.

I've seen the bamboo and trees they kick in Thailand, and I've read in a MA journal something that confirms my suspicion: they're kicking young, relatively soft and springy trees. Also, that practice was due to them lacking the money for other equipment and is out of vogue now, reportedly.

For me front kicks with the heel are usually more for push kicks or teeps. But if I am kicking by lifting my knee and extending my shin and foot into the kick, I like the ball of the foot with the toes pulled back because you can put all that power into a very small space (especially when you learn to get your hips into the kick right). This was the kick the old school TKD guys used to use (and by old school, I mean old school in the early 2000s). I learned to really respect this approach when I was holding pads for someone who did them that way and he struck it so hard, it went right into my gut and made me instantly sick. It was the only time I ever vomited during a class (Made it to the bathroom thankfully). It is one of the most gratifying kicks if you land it well.
Yeah, that "old-school" kick is what I was taught in kung-fu, half a world away, but roughly at the same time. That school was definitely old-school, too. (My biggest hematoma from sparring was an irregular triangle with sides roughly 22-18-13 cm on my shin...no, not due to blocking with it, due to a heel kick aimed at the shin, though the blow almost straightened my leg and hurt my knee joint. It probably says something about me that I was back in the sparring soon afterwards...)

What you described is also the front kick that I call "mae-geri, not teep". Teep kicks push. That kick is meant to drop you.

I think this very individual. I would be careful with making her overconfident but I also think showing her how to protect herself is a good idea. My preference is to teach basic boxing and fairly safe kicks (nothing fancy).
I can't really teach her boxing, though - not the complete system, at any rate. My handwork is closer to dumog.
And that should be closer to what she learns in BJJ, so I don't plan on teaching her much boxing.

Also if you do teach her kicks, teach her the counters for when someone grabs her leg (for instance you can twist and pull someone into you when they grab your leg to regain control).
If she already has grappling and ground knowledge, you probably want her to know how to move for striking and how to understand distance.
Also one of the big learning curves for punching is getting people to stop arm punching and punch by torquing their body into the strike. I think maybe one of the most practical things you can do, if you are just going to teach one thing: teach her how to cage and how to bob, weave and parry.
All good notes, especially the kick counters. I just need to remember better ones than those I use...I suspect she would hesitate to use mine.
But yes, footwork, long strikes, and clinch-with-knees-and-elbows should be the basis of what I teach her. I just plan to replace the fist strikes for palm strikes and rakes...which all aim to set up a kick, knee or elbow. (Again, I can't teach her boxing, and she has enough sports already to add another one).
I am going to incorporate the CPI holds that were suggested in this thread, too...maybe with some minor variations to make them more viable:angel:.

I have been teaching her caging, and I can add some bobbing and weaving, but if he's a kicker, I doubt that bobbing-and-weaving would do her much good. I've always used (waist-level) kicks at bobbing opponents.

Fun fact: technically, she has kung-fu practice as well. But it was a forms-and-conditioning based school - at least in what they were teaching the kids...which was basically the kind of training that kick-boxers laugh at, with good reason (the adults were doing different exercises).
So we can basically scratch that off.
For kicks, those can do a lot of damage if the kid is wearing shoes and using his toes or balls of his feet at a striking surface, so I would probably lean on teaching her to avoid kicks (you can teach her blocks but if there is a considerable size difference, she could break her arm trying to block a kick: that was one of the more common injuries I saw in competition).
Actually, the size difference wouldn't be that big, she's almost as tall as her mom already (admittedly, her mom is short). Aggression is where he outmatches her, not size.

In terms of the bully with Kung Fu. If you can, I would talk with the school. Find out what is going on exactly. Let them know your concerns. When I was a kid there really wasn't much schools would do about bullies, but these days I imagine they are more likely to step in if some kid is taking Kung Fu to enhance his bullying tactics.
I would, but there wouldn't be any point. The teachers have been trying to work with him since day one.
So if I talk with the school, I'd have to be in the presence of witnesses, to make sure nobody misremembers anything.
 

AsenRG

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Today, I just want to share with you something written by a guy named Chris Price on Quora. He says he is doing bare-knuckle boxing, combining old and new school, and supplementing it with wrestling. Apparently he lives in a nasty town in the UK where street fights are common.
I haven't checked his credentials, but what he writes is logical and my experience confirms it.

Chris Price
Started in the 60's in boxing. Been a long road.
Question: "Why do professional Muay Thai fighters not try to block kicks? Is it on purpose?"


A: "Thanks for asking me.

There are all sorts of reasons why you might think this. Some are listed below:
  • Blocking in the same way as is taught in many martial arts will just get you a broken arm in Thai boxing.

    The foot is not used as the impact tool in a round kick or angle kick, the shin is. It is many times harder and more powerful than striking with the foot, which is a bunch of more than 20 small bones. Using the foot for round kicks in boxing gets a broken foot. So when boxers block, they do it in a different way to the basics taught in other martial arts - perhaps because you don’t see such blocks, you might think no blocking is done.
  • A 3-point block or 4-point block is used to stop a round kick, but it is better to evade, or evade and absorb, as these are quicker and take less effort. The 3-point block takes effort and it takes the arms low away from the guard, if a body kick is blocked.

    To execute the 3-point block on your right, against his left body kick, drop the right guard arm down to body height and hold it tight into the body, fist clenched. Drop the left guard hand down to the height of the incoming shin and open the hand. As the kick impacts, it strikes 3 places: the right upper arm, the right lower arm (across the back of the forearm and both bones), and the palm of the left hand. Breath out sharp and absorb, with a small shift to the left if needed. The left hand can spring the leg away and assist a lead into a counter; or it can slide over the top of the shin while the right hand drops under and hooks the leg for a trap. Then counter and/or takedown. This block might not be seen clearly as a block as it has no exaggerated movement, compared to other systems. Especially when it is abbreviated and just the right arm is used as the defender expects a weak kick.

    The 4-point block, or side cover, adds the raised shin. This covers for a low, mid or high kick.
  • Absorption by itself is often used as it uses little effort and leaves you prime for a counter. If you just move, sharply, an inch or two away from the direction of the hit, it takes a significant amount of the power out of it. This would probably not be seen by an onlooker unfamiliar with boxing / fighting methods.

    Absorption is a defensive method with complex moves in and of itself, involving getting the movement and breathing just right. It is not something that can be taught in a syllabus according to a book method, and therefore not something familiar to non-fighters.
  • One of the many aspects of fighting skills that is not seen or understood by non-fighters is durability. Again this can’t be taught out of a syllabus and so it is not a familiar aspect for non-fighters; some attempt is often made to recreate it by busting lengths of timber over the non-fighter but this is just one of those workarounds that only does half the job: it takes no account of dynamic versus static systems.

    Fighting is a dynamic process in which chaos is experienced and tamed; the fighter is hit every which way while moving. Static approaches to this problem are not efficient.
  • Fighters gain head durability and body durability, which are different things. Some combat systems only involve one of those. Boxers build so much head durability that their ability to take head punches is beyond the comprehension of non-boxers.

    The beginner in the gym is floored by a jab; a year later they don’t notice it much and can fire back a hard right that will loosen your fillings. Much the same thing takes place for the body. So when you see a boxer take a shot without any visible defence, then you’re probably missing an element of absorption and durability, which is not seen by the non-fighter as these are foreign concepts. Many things are learned in fights and they are mostly unknown concepts to non-fighters: control of the endocrine and exocrine systems, extreme durability, ability to absorb shots and not waste effort - all these are specific to fighters, unknown to non-fighters, and of far more value than for example questions about technique, which are the beginner’s concern and always a major issue for non-fighters.

    As these fight skills do not exist in a formal syllabus, it can be something of a foreign language to those who train in a more classical / formalised manner.
  • Beginners and non-fighters worry endlessly about technique. Fighters don’t, as they are past that. There are more important things. One of the easiest ways to distinguish the novice from the expert fighter is what their concerns are:
    • the novice is concerned with basic technique - beginners are always thinking or worrying about technique;
    • the intermediate fighter is concerned with tactics;
    • the veteran fighter doesn’t think about anything and is just looking for an edge: in the area of fitness and conditioning before the fight, and strategically during it.
  • Thai boxing differs country to country, culture to culture, level to level. In Thailand it is very common to see contests that are essentially toughman battering contests in which both fighters stand toe to toe and batter the other, and do little to avoid taking too much punishment themselves. This is remarkably similar to one era in old English bareknuckle boxing, where defence was seen as unmanly and unwanted. It seems the fight culture here back then, and over there now, have some similarities. And so you will see that many Thais put little value on defence, valuing toughness more; in the West we usually work more on defensive skills, these days.

    In fact you could take two people who trained the same length of time, of different nationalities, Thai and for example Dutch: you will find the foreign fighter knows more about defence than the Thai, on average. It just has more value to foreigners than to Thais.
  • Defence gains more value as fighter weight goes up. A punch in the head from a flyweight could be survivable, but absorbing a punch in the head from a heavyweight could be a bad idea.
  • Thai boxing has developed specifically for winning under certain conditions: perfected for small men, standing up, with little in the way of rules, in a ring, with a soft floor that makes throws of low value. That is why it looks like it does - why it is what it is. Move some of those parameters and you need something different.
Seeing beyond the surface
What you are looking at when watching a boxer at work is someone who has trained in a different way with different goals and gained different skills to those of many of the spectators.

Often what they do looks imprecise or even sloppy; they seem to use little or none of the precise technique learned in syllabus-based combat systems; none of ‘the basics of fighting’ seem to be there - at least, the basics as taught by formalised systems. And what they do which is comparable to the formal versions, appears to be different in some inexplicable way: hits are not sharp, but more fluid, in some way that the onlooker cannot define.

The reason is that the goals are different, and the method developed to fit the goals. The boxer / fighter is only concerned with winning fights, there are no other goals. The entire approach needs to be different because the goals are different. In the end what they are doing is like another language - you might find a common word or two but the whole thing is a different culture.

Two paths
Imagine two combat systems starting out 300 years ago. Mostly they will consist of wrestling as all fighting back then utilised weapons - unarmed people died. Some strikes will be incorporated.

Some people also developed half-and-half striking/grappling methods as their access to weapons was restricted.

All close-range fighting in the real world ends up as a mix of weapons/striking/grappling when averaged out.

Both our two systems became obsolete when firearms took over the battlefield, and the unarmed systems that worked with hand weapons mostly moved across to the civilian population. Unarmed combat for the military now consists of a few days’ training and it is mostly for morale and fitness. Gunners and radio operators no longer have to skewer opponents with a halberd, or resort to unarmed combat when their weapon breaks - they call an air strike.

The adherents of our two classical combat systems will both want to transmit their valuable, hard-earned systems onward down the generations.
  1. One group chooses to formalise the system and write it in a book. It survives excellently, taught as kata or similar, with a strictly controlled syllabus that must never be altered because the founders of the art embodied perfection: they were perfect and the art they built was perfect.
  2. The other group decides to keep it going by having contests. They develop rules and restrictions that keep the contestants alive, and mostly uninjured. The contest must look exactly like their idea of perfection (which changes dramatically over time). The contests persist down the ages; sometimes the fights look much like the original art (meaning that a lot of injuries occur and deaths are plentiful - so this would have to be in less-developed countries where life has less value); and sometimes the contests look like a pale shadow of their former selves, but at least very few people die in them.
  3. In the second type of system - the contest-based art - change is normal and desirable. As there is no syllabus, what wins fights is what is used and trained in. The individual changes their method according to their wins and losses; the system changes when something better for winning fights comes along. Improvement is part of the goal, at both an individual and system level; by definition, improvement means change.
The values of each system are different. They are different concepts. Neither is especially good for real-world use any more - they have to be rebuilt for any practical purpose since both have been emasculated - one group cannot fight any more; the other has lost most of the practical technique, has large gaps in its technical canon, and has adopted ring attrition practices that mean it is unreliable for use as a fighting art in the real world since the values are skewed.

One suits formal and disciplined people who like a rigid structure. The other suits people who like to fight and who don’t care for rigid authority and structure. One has lots of good fighting technique but has forgotten how to use it in the real world. The other is good at fighting but only knows a fraction of what their forefathers knew about combat, and has numerous bad habits.

Both need a drastic rebuild for practical use. As they are different languages, people who only speak one of them don’t understand what the other is on about. Both approaches have value for fighting: one still has most of the technique but falls over when they get punched hard in the face; the other is tough but knows very little, has huge gaps in knowledge, and thinks ring attrition moves like jabs, left cutter elbows and round kicks to the body are fine for real-world use.

Neither of them is exactly suited to what you need on a dark night in a car park somewhere when things go bad.

If you marry them the result can be pretty good; the child of such a union speaks both languages. They are more likely to be able to figure out that everything needs to change to suit different environments. Once they have grasped that, real progress can be made: they are able to see the faults of each type and how they must be changed in order to work with 100% efficiency on the day.

Fighters are mentally flexible, as they have to manage chaos. Good fighters are even more flexible. The fighter must adapt to the environment in order to win against strong opposition. However if a fighter only trains in one art, they can only think in the narrow way dictated by that art. In order to cope with varying environments they need to train in different arts. Each art has different priorities because each encourages excellence in its own narrow area of specialisation; outside of that, a single art is almost worthless.

In the end, contest-based arts tell us how to fight, and syllabus-based arts hold the knowledge needed to cope with a wide range of situations. It helps to remember that close-range combat without projectile weapons comprises striking + grappling + weapons. No single art can possibly cover all of that well, and the details change over time: sword skills are utterly useless now but knife use is high value. Times change although the basic outline is evergreen.

……………..

This was a complicated way of saying: learn another language, or combat system. It broadens the mind. You will learn how the other person thinks. And then you yourself will be able to think better."

Conversely, I'm noticing that I get faster and better results if I'm playing a mental game: I assume my partner might get angry and punch me, or someone else might appear and soccerkick me.
Makes me really fight for top position, and controlling the hands from the inside (or smothering them from the outside). Which are good practices in both striking and grappling...the trick is, for me, to find the mental space where I can access my previous habits without that leading to rules-breaking actions on instinct.
 

AsenRG

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Fun fact, kinda continuing the last part of the above observations: Demian Maia (the UFC fighter) recommends half-guard and butterfly guard for MMA to prevent being punched out. Which is, amusingly, what I was recommended to focus on - for different purposes, but what does it matter:shade:?

He also voiced the same concern that Neil Melanson did: that if you play guard, people would get up and avoid the ground game (which is sub-optimal for a ground fighter, even if it's good sense on the street:grin:). Melanson has a whole video series named "snap guard" which deals with this...

Also of note regarding Maia: his recommended punch defense doesn't look a lot like what most boxers would recommend (and which he undisputably knows) since he is putting both hands on one side. You might almost think that he'd recommend something else when not having gloves, and when the likely attack is a strong accentuated strike with full body rotation:tongue:!

Also on Maia: Amazon.de and Amazon.fr just offered me to buy his "science of jiu-jitsu" at a price far higher than on the publisher's site:shock:!
 
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AsenRG

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Nothing interesting today, other than my string of victories against younger newbies* continuing:tongue:! I managed to land a hip bump sweep and tried the Melanson guard system where you use the legs to manipulate his lower legs and destabilize him - though I didn't persist, since I wasn't sure if I'm doing it right. It seemed to work, and I'm going to experiment more.
Also note to self, need to try the Irish Collar and Hammerlock-Double Wristlock-Guillotine grip combo (I forget what Melanson called them:thumbsup:).

More relevant to you, I started teaching the daughter. She is no longer doing preparatory exercises (as in the kung-fu school), I'm teaching her triangle footwork, slaps, knees and straight kicks.
Again, the assumption is that if anyone tries to get her to the ground, BJJ should be enough. So I'm focusing on stance, footwork, angles and defensive posture.
Her opinion was that I'm good enough to train other people. I pointed out that regardless of whether she's right, this isn't a really perspective profession in our country (because it isn't, apart from combat sports, and even then it's really about love for the sport, I suspect:shade:).

*Younger people with similar or superior experience in BJJ continue to be a problem. One of those (he's training less time in months, but trains more often) landed two submissions today on me. I am quite happy, though, since I did manage to get him to mount...it's just that he managed to escape and gain superior position in turn.
Hey, I was almost going to evade the second submission, too! But it is no-gi, and we were so slippery from the sweat that when I tried posting, the palm of my hand was sliding on the mat:grin:!
 

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Ah, sorry brothers, I lost track of this thread.

AsenRG, my main style is Tai Chi Chuan in the Wu tradition, which I've been doing for 20+ years. I also practice some Yang style taiji and Baguazhang and drills/forms from Southern Boxing and knife fighting that I studied as a younger man. My Judo experience comes from one of my early Tai Chi teachers who was also a Nidan Judoka. And in the video I posted Running Thunder Hand does look A LOT like traditional striking, but it uses a "silk reeling" internal mechanic which gives it a different emphasis.

As for your daughter, I would teach her loud verbal de-escalators and to keep her distance (back-shuffle footwork, stance-swapping, using the fence), and if someone keeps trying to close that distance, two or three brute-finishers. The verbal cues and distancing part can be important when it comes to explaining shit to school authorities in the aftermath of your daughter breaking some guy's balls/nose.

Slaps are one of the main tools in my toolbox. There's a move in our form called "Turn Around And Plant The Palm Tree", which also translates as "Slap The Face". IME slaps can really sap the fight out of an aggressor. A vertical down-slap onto the nose is a particularly effective self-defendo technique, especially for ladies.
 
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AsenRG

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Ah, sorry brothers, I lost track of this thread.

AsenRG, my main style is Tai Chi Chuan in the Wu tradition, which I've been doing for 20+ years. I also practice some Yang style taiji and Baguazhang and drills/forms from Southern Boxing and knife fighting that I studied as a younger man. My Judo experience comes from one of my early Tai Chi teachers who was also a Nidan Judoka.
That's a respectable pedigree:thumbsup:!

And in the video I posted Running Thunder Hand does look A LOT like traditional striking, but it uses a "silk reeling" internal mechanic which gives it a different emphasis.
Yeah, the silk reeling mechanic is something I've been chasing for years. I think I might end up giving on it, though, for various reasons:shade:.

As for your daughter, I would teach her loud verbal de-escalators and to keep her distance (back-shuffle footwork, stance-swapping, using the fence), and if someone keeps trying to close that distance, two or three brute-finishers. The verbal cues and distancing part can be important when it comes to explaining shit to school authorities in the aftermath of your daughter breaking some guy's balls/nose.
Point. But I always teach the fence as a major part of the "guard".

Slaps are one of the main tools in my toolbox. There's a move in our form called "Turn Around And Plant The Palm Tree", which also translates as "Slap The Face". IME slaps can really sap the fight out of an aggressor. A vertical down-slap onto the nose is a particularly effective self-defendo technique, especially for ladies.
Also agreed. And there's just small modifications that are needed to give them decisive power!
 

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Josh Barnett made me laugh today. He probably intended to, though not specifically to make me laugh.
His advice? When you've taken the head and arm ride (kesa gatame) in a fight, watch out, or else the friends of the guy might come out and kill you while you're not watching. Also, remember that sporting is sporting, but martial arts are arts of Mars, the god of war:thumbsup:.
He is also demonstrating in much the same way as Neil Melanson: you hear his partner grunting from the, ahem, discomfort:shade:.

OTOH, that's still better than the guy (whose name eludes me) who was showing combat Tai Chi by beating up his own student:grin:!
 

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My leg is better (it withstood the pilates conditioning yesterday, despite the stretching) so I'm getting back to training BJJ today or tomorrow.
But the important part is another.
I was watching an instructional on my phone (the BJJ Fanatics app is great, BTW) when Second Son came to me and joined.
"I want to see how the (bigger boys)* are wrestling** and learn some new technique!"
...I'm not known for refusing such requests. Of course, I did urgently close off the guillotines instructional*** that I was watching, and let him pick one from the app!
He picked "shoulder trap" by Waldo Zapata, 4th dan BJJ. A very decent choice, I would say:grin:!
I explained to him what the guy was showing, and demonstrated the first part. We didn't get to the triangle, but then I'm not planning to teach him leg triangles yet, either...though it's better than arm triangles or guillotines (more of a sport move). However, I think he remembered the set-up, which is what the instructional is really about - and what is going to be most useful to him in rolling...:angel:

So that's another "real life wuxia" moment for me. And since I'm using this thread as a pseudo-blog anyway, I thought I should share:thumbsup:!


*Untranslatable in English otherwise, but like Japanese, Chinese, Hindi and many other languages, Bulgarian contains separate words for Bigger Boy/Brother, Elder Man, Bigger Girl/Sister, Elder Woman, and many separate kinds of realatives - for example, your father's brother and your mother's brother are denoted by different words. Which is why the wuxia system of naming never puzzled me...but anyway: the word he used was exactly that for Bigger Boys/Bigger Bros.
Now can you imagine a beginner in a wuxia story saying "I wanna see how the dailos are grappling":shade:?
**Conversely, there's only a single word for wrestling, struggling, and it's also used as part of "armed struggle" and, contextually, for individual combat when it comes to close quarters, even if it's armed. Then again, we've got scores of words for different moves used in wrestling, many of whom are relatively widely used (as in, when talking about such matters becomes relevant). Ain't languages a great thing:tongue:?
***First, kids can understand guillotines...I just don't want him to start using guillotines because he could well use them unsupervised. Second, the instructional wasn't really any good. I'm not really disappointed, per se - it did explain what it explained in good detail, multiple takes from different angles...
It's just that I've seen a better instructional for guillotines on Youtube. If you want to find it, google "island top team guillotine".
 

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The guy who has been giving me problems during rolls got awarded his blue belt today. I think it's well-deserved:thumbsup:!
For that matter, I think most of the other white belts were going to agree. At some point he ran out of willing partners (though I rolled with him twice). But then he's strong and obviously more technical than a white belt - I just didn't mind him scoring a win, or more than one...the biggest advantage of grappling is exactly that - you try something, you lose, you catch your breath and you can go again. With striking it's a bit harder to be so nonchalant:shade:!

Killing the ego is the first step to taking advantage of those opportunities, of course. The younger guys find that a lot harder, it seems:grin:! Then again, I've felt his pressure a lot today, and I can attest that he is applying lots of pressure, and his guillotines are real tight, but he is also taking precautions not to injure. Which is more than fine in my book!

Now him running out of willing partners lead me to think about a dual principle for training martial arts: Kill the ego, show kindness.
1)Killing the ego allows you to grapple with people far better than you. You're going to lose a lot, but that's why they're better. (The soon-to-be-blue-belt today showed me what I was doing wrong in armbar defense, for example...turns out I'd misunderstood the move. I need to look more into stopping his uchi-mata and getting out of kesa gatame, though).
I did that today, so yay, check!

Oh, and killing the ego makes it easier to avoid applying your skills outside of the school...though I'm not sure if I'm quite there yet, but I haven't used anything recently:tongue:!


2) Showing kindness means, to me, not using all your advantages. If you see someone is having trouble stopping you from a certain position, play from a harder* one! You learn more when you challenge yourself than when you repeat the same combo ad nauseam.
Showing someone how to use a counter that gives you trouble* is another option: this way, you can work on dealing with that counter.

Of course, you need a safe way to spar in order to do that. If not defending a good strike can give you a concussion it ain't working all that well!

Anyway. I've been doing that as well, lately - with people who had joined merely a few weeks ago (vs several months for me). The new blue belt was actually doing it as well - he gladly let me start on top of his guard. As a result, I can now attest that his scissor sweep is good.
But this also means that I must say that the other white belts must work more on killing the ego, I'm afraid.

Blog for today done:angel:!
 

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Fun fact: I drilled a sweep yesterday which is well-known as "the John Wayne sweep", which I figured should make it popular among Pub regulars:grin:!
I actually skipped the first two rounds of rolling, replacing them with more drilling with a guy who has injured his rib. So he doesn't roll freely, but he's drilling techniques. I don't know if that's wise, but he looks to be in his 30ies, I shouldn't be giving him health advice.

Also, I rolled with a newbie yesterday. I took side control twice using the exact same move, then stopped, returned to his guard and told him what I've been using to pass him (namely, he was trying to triangle me without breaking my posture or balance first, and even while my hands were in a defensive position). Thing is, if I can use an elbow defense against that, I only need to tilt my elbows and I've passed his legs. It's a very natural move, wondering why people don't use it more:angel:.

To put it in perspective for our striking-focused friends, that's kinda like taking the initiative against someone who's waiting in a crouched boxing stance...and then you're opening with a barrage of body hooks, straights to the body, and shin kicks to the midsection: you're going to batter his guard (voluntarily kicking and punching his elbows as a bonus...:shade:), but you're also basically asking to get countered.

He acknowledged he understands me, and then he made a half-hearted attempt to pull one of my hands towards him before...going for a triangle with all his speed:tongue:!
So we ended the roll with me in side control again, because my kindness only extends so far. OTOH, he got an opportunity to practice his side control escapes...which were really swift, BTW. At the least, he didn't let me lock up the kesa gatame position, or get to North-South, both of which he would have hated way more!
This one got some health advice from me, though, seeing as he got a muscle cramp while we were rolling. Ah well, I've got extensive experience with those...

Note to self, I need to work more on opening opponents up for attack from side control, and transitioning to the kesa gatame ("head and arm ride") or other dominant positions. When I have an advantage, I keep getting to this position, so it makes sense. (When I don't have an advantage, it's survival hour for me, instead:thumbsup:).
 

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Rolled last night as well. This time it was the "beginners group" - on Monday we have only beginners and advanced group, and I'm at least a few months too early for the advanced group.
I still liked it, and found a brown belt willing to show me why my scissor sweep sucked (I had the grips wrong). As a bonus, it turned out the guy is a journalist as well:grin:!

Fun fact, the advanced practitioners show up for the beginners group and basically use it as warm-up before their practice...:tongue:

Interesting enough, the beginners get "guided sparring". In this case, we started going "start on top in north south, either try to apply a kimura (or any other* submission), the one on bottom wins if he can get to guard or any better position without being submitted".
In fact, I'd say the "general group" needs more of this and less free rolling as well...but it's not my decision to make. I'm definitely going to try getting to more "beginners group" practices, though...alas, they usually don't fit my schedule.
Ah well, you get what you can get.


*I had misunderstood the rules to mean "apply a joint lock". So when a purple belt caught me in a cross choke, I allowed it, thinking it's a set up for a lock and hoping to counter the actual move for the joints.
And then I felt him strangling me with my gi, and had to tap, because of course, I had allowed him to get a grip on my lapel:shade:!
 

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Today, I'm thinking of the concept that all techniques have three stages: preparatory, getting there, and applying force.
More crucially, you can defend on any of the three stages. For example, the standard boxing defence is on the third stage; a karate parry - no, the meaning of "uke" isn't "to block", and in general there's no blocks in TMA, IME - or a sword parry often/usually defend on the second stage. Some palm defenses and elbow blocks defend on the third, though.
And then there's defending on the first stage, which is also known as "this guy ain't letting you work at all". It's misdirection* via body/head movement and not letting him get an angle for attacking, it's closing off the lines of attack, it's "jamming" the opponent's hands and feet before he can launch a strike or even preemptively, as part of moving in, and it's breaking his balance or at least manipulating his body alignment to deny him the impulse for a knee in the clinch. All of which is much easier said than done, I know. You have to be able to "read" or "sense" your opponent, which is why a lot of those moves aim to establish contact in the first place.
...And most importantly, it doesn't look good, because it's not letting your opponent work at all. As such, a contest where someone is constantly doing that (successfully) would be a boring one to watch, because nothing much would happen, except for the other guy getting pounded into oblivion (or submitted, or pinned, or whatever the criteria for winning are).

*As separate from moving your body/head out of the way before it connects, which is a third-stage defence usually.


Additionally, I watched a short video of Dan Kolov in the ring today.
If you didn't know who it was and from what year, it would probably look like a black and white recording of the Japanese MMA (it's happening on a ring with ropes). Or like a mix of MMA and WWF. Except neither allows for headbutts today...but it was obviously part of his arsenal. (Makes sense that old-school BJJ practices headbutt defense to this day, though!)
The video also clarified a lot of things I've been wondering about regarding wrestling and some of the moves I've been taught...
Also, it answered my question "why nobody practices hammerfists in the clinch, do people believe they don't work?" He used those quite proficiently, so I have to show the clip to some MMAers:angel:!
 

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I did BJJ tonight, much to nobody's surprise. I scored my first armlock from kesa-gatame (shout out to Fenris-77 Fenris-77 because I think he'd approve:thumbsup:).

Also, a heavier guy got me into his mount and I flubbed spectacularly the roll to prevent the juji-gatame (armbar) set-up.
However, I decided to let him try it and counter, so his armbar attempt actually ended up becoming my sweep. Or at least I started in mount bottom, and ended in his guard, on top. A marked improvement, if you ask me:grin:!
That was an application of my principle "there's no defense in a fight, only counterattacking":shade:.
 

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I managed some nice rolls today. The only time I got submitted was due to the slipperiness: my opponent and the floor were both like covered in oil (actually, just sweat). And it was no-gi, so nothing to absorb the sweat, nothing else to grab, and no way to recover if you slip during armbar defense...:shade:

Also I have a holiday (relaxing with the wife) incoming. The big question in my mind: is there a martial arts gym in the resort town (to relax from the wife), or at least a gym:grin:? Well, the hotel probably has a gym, but I mean a gym more suited to my tastes.
We'll see when we get there, I guess. I have found a martial arts gym, but I have no intention to just going there to train. Some places in small towns can be more extreme than I care to weather - at least than what I care for on what is, after all, a holiday:thumbsup:!
 

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No training was done during the holiday, alas. Me forgetting the bag with my gi didn't help, but it was the hotel's sauna that really sealed it...:grin:


But then I have a clip for you. Normally, arm drags are seen as merely a way to set-up a throw. But watch this and tell me...
...can you see how they can also serve as the basis for defending strikes and setting up your own strikes:shade:?
Funny, I watched this last year...and I didn't understand it well enough:thumbsup:.


Also, I was thinking today about solo practice. It used to be a lot more popular in older times and reportedly, helped a lot in making well-rounded fighters.
Today it's out of vogue.
One wonders, why?
Then I remembered what my problems were when I was told to do solo practice. The main problem was, of course, "imagining an enemy in front of you".
I mean, I had no trouble with the imagining part, nor with the elaytiminem(sp?), a.k.a. immersion part. It was the GMing part that was the issue, a.k.a. "running the enemies":angel:!
Why? Well, I simply haven't been in enough fights to be able to predict what would make sense for an opponent to do. (And imagining the virtual opponent to be doing the same moves you saw last night Jackie Chan's opponent doing doesn't necessarily teach you how to behave to minimize/nullify the impact of real attacks...:tongue:)

OTOH, in the past brawling was a much-more-practiced spare time (hell, I've observed the amount of brawling lessening during my lifetime). So the people who made up the "solo" training methods expected their students to be quite able to imagine an attacker!
What they didn't have was access to our medicine. Which means that a nasty break sustained during practice, or even worse, torn ligaments... might well be something that you carry with you your whole life.
Solo practice makes much more sense in those situations, right?
 
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AsenRG

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Nothing important, but now I want to see that in some kind of modern game.
"Jiu-Jitsu: Connecting People since...well, we don't know, but at least since the 17th century! (Actually earlier, but we called it Yoroi Kumiuchi before that!)"

...Yes, I know, a joke that's only going to be funny for the likes of us, the readers of this thread:thumbsup:.
 

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I'm still sick, but I am going to sing the praises of Steven Whittier:grin:!
I mean, I've got other instructionals from him as well. But it's his "accelerator blueprint" that I liked the most.
Crucially, I like that he focuses on connection, principles, and maintaining position, instead of "do this and you submit him for sure, guaranteed". Not that there isn't space for both, but if I have to take one between position and attempting a submission, I've found that it pays to keep the position.
And he mentions that in his gym, submissions are relegated to the rank of less important moves, but his students still hit them during competitions. Why? Well, if you can keep the position and isolate an extremity, the submission often becomes a lot easier:shade:!

I really need to check his other materials as well:thumbsup:.
 

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I am looking at Dean Lister for escapes now. I like his attitude to those, which is best summed up as "let'im try, if I manage to thwart him, I've passed his guard".
See, there's a couple of guys in my gym who like guillotines...so I just tried his guillotine escape and surprise, it's a refinement of what I've been taught in kung-fu* about escaping the guillotine in standing position. But the kung-fu move had additional bonuses if you're standing.
The thing is, I can actually combine the two, they don't contradict each other:shade:.

Other than that, I'm almost back to health...though I've probably gained weight.

*Not sure if it was from kung-fu, or from the teacher's own experience, but does it matter:grin:?
 

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Dean Lister's escapes are great, unsurprisingly. He is all about angles, removing support points and protecting your own alignment or at least remaining close to its perfect form.
And then in the final hours, I bought myself* a Father's Day present - Black Belt Concepts course from GrappleArts (Stephan Kesting). It is a very different kind of conceptual course from the concepts of Rob Biernacki or the 32 Gracie Principles.

Watching it, I notice immediately that Kesting is using mosly what I called already "from the bottom up principles". No, I don't mean he is adapting ground techniques for the feet, I mean that he starts from the more practical advice like "choke the diaphragm" and gets towards different applications. That's literally the first of his principles:grin:!
Sure, he also has principles like posture and faking. But most of them seem more general. BTW, there's 26 "core" principles and 3 "bonus" ones.
Chewy from Chew Jutsu is also using the same"bottom to top" approach, it seems...though I'm not really sure.

Unlike him (or them), the Gracie principles seem to be stuff like "connection", "detachment" and the like (I haven't purchased it). A (presumably older) variant of Rob Biernacki's conceptual course has the principles like "Base, Posture and Structure", "Frames and Levers" and so on. He is now offering a newer variant of the same curriculum in his online school. I can spot that he has added "alignment" to the list, and there are probably some other differences. But both him and the Gracies are very much offering principles that are presented "from top down": more abstract knowledge, which is then to be applied to specific instances.

I suspect that it's very much a matter of presentation. Granted, Kesting is also training in submission grappling with Erik Paulson, who is known for knowing his catch wrestling moves.

So which ones do I choose? Why, I don't plan to choose:tongue:! I've got Kesting's course already. It's not a matter of "if", but of "when" I'm going to get access to Biernacki's course and the Gracie principles. Because in dealing with TMA people, I've learned to never trust one source for everything, and to never assume that said source is sharing everything he knows with you.
So, I'm cross-referencing people. As long as they're from at least roughly related styles, it works, IME...and being grapplers is all I need to count them as "related":angel:. (Now, referencing a grappler with a kick-boxer would be harder...but cross-referencing the grappler and a Muay Thai player known for clinching would be at least possible, if harder).


*With the Father's Day discount, while the course was on sale on top of it. It ended up being a lot less than the usual price...and well, I didn't get other presents anyway, so I got myself one:shade:.
 

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A note I just posted in the fitness thread regarding the BJJ name and its variants.

"(BJJ basically means) Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, it is usually shortened this way.

OTOH, it is also known as GJJ, for Gracie JJ, but that's a lot less common and AFAICT, mostly done as a 1) kind of trademark of the Gracies, which I totally get (everyone needs advertisement, marketing rules) or 2) a way to note that someone is training in the full curriculum and not just the sport of BJJ...though many that train the "old school" techniques just call it "BJJ for the street/MMA" instead, and alternatively, 3) as a way to show that someone has been studying with the Gracies themselves and "not some cheap knock-off thrice-removed from the source". That last part is the part I don't like.

Of course, I don't train with a Gracie teacher or direct student, I am (as of now, at least) only training the sport moves for fitness and basic proficiency (which is why I mention it in this thread at all:thumbsup:), which excludes striking for example, and I add without any concern for purity wrestling or even qinna/chinna moves I've been taught - assuming they're safe to use, of course (not all of them are). So I couldn't reasonably call what I do GJJ either way:grin:!"

And now I'm thinking...why am I training in BJJ and not one of the MMA clubs that have good groundfighting? Would it be more to my taste?
Well, yes and no. I am actually looking at BJJ without strikes as a way of applying Kano Jigoro's concept of "randori" in a manner that is as safe as possible: this way I can train the grappling moves, focusing on grappling (without concern for getting my head busted), and add the strikes back in once I achieve some grappling proficiency.
So...basically I'm using BJJ as a ground-focused way of applying Judo principles:shock:?
Well, yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. It surprised me as well when I realized it, but there you go!
 

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So...basically I'm using BJJ as a ground-focused way of applying Judo principles:shock:?
Well, yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. It surprised me as well when I realized it, but there you go!
Considering the history of BJJ, which pretty mcuh makes BJJ the OSR of Judo, why are you surprised? :grin:
 

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Considering the history of BJJ, which pretty mcuh makes BJJ the OSR of Judo, why are you surprised? :grin:
I agree with "the OSR of Judo"...hehehe, need to tell that to Todor once I'm healthy again and get to the gym:grin:!
But what surprises me is more about me applying the Judo principles. Most of my life, I've been all about training the most dangerous variants of techniques, with both strikes and grabs always included.
As an example, at one point I knew two ways to strangle a man (RNC/hadaka jime and guillotine) which allowed me to let go...and 5 neck cranks to break the neck. (Today, I've mellowed out, as I only remember 3 of them...and I know at least 5 ways to strangle a man, so I'm moving towards more civilian applications:tongue:).
But at one point, I realized that my grappling ability is lacking, which often screws up my techniques mid-way and makes me engage in strike exchanges. So I was all for doing some more grappling when the opportunity arose.
Then I realized that if I was to train in a place that excludes strikes, I could get more grappling quicker, and hopefully progress faster. Cue me training in BJJ today:thumbsup:.

Fenris-77 Fenris-77 might have something to say on this topic as well, I suspect:shade:!
 

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Also, today I'm watching* "Bread and Butter Bottom Wrestling: Escapes And Reversals" by 2-time NCAA Champion Matt McDonough. My immediate conclusion: his wrestling is basically an internal style (and possibly vice versa).
I suspect Mr. McDonough might be really surprised (and possibly not flattered at all, depending on what he's seen from such styles:grin:) to be compared to internal styles. But so far in over an hour he's made one move that might not be according to the principles of internal styles...and he keeps harping** about stuff that's basically straight out of some Tai Chi treatises:shade:.
You know, stuff like "keep centered", "keep the elbows down and close to the ribs", "imagine a steel pipe running from the top of your head to the other side of your body" and "keep the lower back straight"... you know, all of this stuff that people who trained BJJ with the Gracies consistently exhibit (but don't always explain).
It seems that people who studied from Rickson Gracie are especially likely to do so. I'm basing this mainly on Henry Akins and a clip of Rickson Gracie himself, though it's quite likely that he's not the only one to profess those principles - if anything, it seems he is simply the one that focuses more on this kind of stuff. Other Gracies also seem to be doing this, but they prefer to teach different things first (and just to be clear, no doubt that both approaches have merits:thumbsup:).

Back to McDonough, another thing I like is that he doesn't show techniques per se, he shows you principles that determine what you must achieve and what you must avoid, and a few moves that you have to use according to the opponent's possible actions. I like this approach, as is well-known by now...:tongue:
Well, sure, you can treat his instructional as a collection of techniques, if you wish, but since the techniques for different situations are pretty much the same with minor adjustments, and he shows how different actions by the opponent change them (or even better, that the same move still works), it seems quite obvious how it's intended to be practiced...


*"But, Asen, didn't you get yourself a present? Why not watch Kesting's course first?"
"Sure, grasshopper, but I can only access that one from my home computer, since it's not on Kesting's app. And I've been watching the above while in the bus/trolley".
**He even notes that he intends to keep on harping on this because he believes many people neglect it.

Also, a rough summary/draft of my houserules which include "touch fighting" is now in Design and Development.
 

AsenRG

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Apropos of nothing in particular, I love it when people say Oh, you know wrist control? I'd get out of it like this .... with no fucking clue how it works.
Which kind of wrist control? No-gi wrist control and yes-gi wrist control are two entirely different beasts, which also differ on the ground and on the feet, and that's before we get into "no-grab-touch-only" wrist controls...the latter of which you can easily "get out of", if doing so doesn't open you for anything nasty:tongue:.
That's a big "if" right there in the last sentence, though. In fact, that's a major challenge with all escapes from any grab or other negative position - you have to both achieve it, and avoid worsening your situation by doing so.


In other news, today I met a friend I hadn't seen for a while now, though I've learned a lot from him before he moved to a different country (possibly temporarily). We quickly found out that he's still much better than me in grappling, but that wasn't a big surprise.

OTOH, we worked on my guillotine escapes today (his guillotines are also pretty good), and he helped me to get it right. Now I should really get to the gym to try it out:grin:!
The only downside to training with him is that he doesn't see much point in "sports stuff":shade:.
 

AsenRG

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Guys, today I just have a question for you all:
Is this Paul Elliott guy shown in this video...

...the same guy as Paul Elliot from Zozer games:grin:?
 

AsenRG

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Guys, today I just have a question for you all:
Is this Paul Elliott guy shown in this video...

...the same guy as Paul Elliot from Zozer games:grin:?
The matter remains unresolved. I mean, if anyone had a picture of Zozer's head (Mithras), that would be easy...

Maybe we could ask Black Leaf Black Leaf directly, he seems to know everyone in England:grin:! Just to be clear, I don't need a picture, just someone taking a look and comparing it with the video.
Why do I bother, you might ask? Well, I have this theory that BJJ and reenactment attract an inordinate amount of geeks/nerds (I still don't know the difference). And we know Paul Elliott/Mithras is into reenacting, so what are the odds he might be a black belt in BJJ as well:shade:?

I mean, I guess that would explain me as well. I am a geek/nerd, I suspect:angel:.


On the not so bright side, I might have had a bad fall in the gym (more than one, really). If you're being thrown left, but try falling to your right, you end up falling flat on your back.
Ah well, I gave it a couple days of rest (or tried to, but sleeping on the floor probably didn't help), today it should get some movement:thumbsup:!

And finally, I spoke with a guy in the BJJ gym. He said he's "obsessed" with the idea of fighting in a MMA match and is training for that. Actually, he even has a relative that is doing exactly that, and joining BJJ was due to following his advice (the other choices were judo and sambo).
I thought for a moment what my previous trainers would have said, and I suspect know they wouldn't have been thrilled. Well, with BJJ, joining MMA might be a kind of tradition, it's the Gracie clan that launched UFC, after all!
But still, I'd feel weird if I was to do it myself (luckily, it's not required, either - there are plenty of grappling-only competitions, and that I'm fine with). And, as I've said before, the MMA guys are lots of fun to train with, so I'm kinda glad they are around.
The only problem is, the whole thing got me in a mood to play a pankratiast-style of character. Alas, that's not something I get to do often.
 

BedrockBrendan

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Apropos of nothing in particular, I love it when people say Oh, you know wrist control? I'd get out of it like this .... with no fucking clue how it works.

I know very little about grappling techniques, beyond the few things I picked up here or there, but "I'd just do this" is never a good strategy in my experience. Nothing every plays out how I imagine it in my mind before hand.
 

Rob Necronomicon

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I know very little about grappling techniques, beyond the few things I picked up here or there, but "I'd just do this" is never a good strategy in my experience. Nothing every plays out how I imagine it in my mind before hand.
Basically, we apply 'Murphy's Law' to all our training - Whatever can go wrong will go wrong (in a fight). ;)
 
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