- May 3, 2017
- Reaction score
OK, I just "met" a guy who believes your back is less important to protect than the front. Because your back has strong muscles and can take more punishment. He believes that this is why our hands bend in a way that allows them to protect the front better.
It's a martial arts youtuber, BTW. And obviously he knows his stuff: I agree with him more than I agree with other guys.
Let me repeat: I quite liked the clip. It's a rather good explanation of the 9 gates (and the preferable defences - though I think he underestimates interceptions...and told him that as well). I just disagree with his assessment of targets that aren't allowed under most/any combat sport rulesets.
Anyway, the following exchange of ideas followed.
Me: "So a punch in the kidneys - which are on your back - isn't going to do as much damage as a punch in the diaphragm? Your call, but I'd prefer a strike in the diaphragm. It's less likely to piss blood afterwards.
Personally, I feel that the reason we don't use hands to protect our backs is much simpler. In other words, our hands don't really bend that way."
MA Youtuber: "Any blow hard enough to the body cavity where there’s less bond and muscle can definitely drop somebody if there not ready for it. Kidney punches are illegal in boxing abc some mma circuits.
The liver is connected directly to our respiratory systems and is easier to get to. Human arms were meant to reach behind our backs to protect. We are bipedal organisms and we were designed to be protected from behind with our back muscles and bones. Even the skull from behind is relatively durable .
All humans vitals are in front of us, eyes, throat, diagram, groin, knees, etc. But again most fights don’t end in one blow to our body’s legs, toros area. What I call the bio computer which is our see, breathe and think systems are all in close proximity of one another."
Me: "Wait, are we talking about "structural integrity" or "which are the most damaging & legal (under what ruleset?) options"? Since you had mentioned the consequences of a groin kick (in the video), I'd assumed you weren't talking about MMA...(even though the clip is "defenses for MMA").
But even in some MMA rules kidney strikes are allowed (though underutilized).
And no ruleset that I know of allows (intentional) strikes to the back of the head or the spine. Reason: those can lead to death or lifelong crippling injuries. That's why "rabbit punches" are INfamous and considered dirty: you're not supposed to by trying to kill an opponent in a sporting contest.
Yeah, I definitely would prefer to get punched in a the diaphragm or face a couple times over taking strikes to the base of the skull, back of neck, spine or kidneys. The odds of dying are simply less!
The liver, sorry, doesn't count. It's on the side of the body, you can access it from behind of from the front (and I've seen a "liver hunter" who managed to hook the liver while being at the left side of the opponent). But the opponent has a harder time preventing you from liver hunting if you're behind.
Also: I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the human animal.
We are bipedal organisms meant, like almost all organisms on Earth (amebas and such possible excluded) to fight by facing the opposition - like a gun turret). That's why getting behind the opponent is a huge advantage - and that's why it's one of the goals of most wrestling, as well as ba gua zhang. On top of having targets that are at least as valuable, the opponent has a hard time counter-attacking...so you can safely "put your heart and soul into the strike" .
Evolutionary speaking we're meant to protect from this by having friends who protect our backs. The second option is simply by outrunning the attacking predator (human or otherwise): usually animals don't face the other direction unless they've chosen "flight".
But that's the difference: fighting with said friends (to establish "pecking order", say), you'd punch in the faces. Fighting against another, hostile group...well, anything goes. Including attacks from the back and weapons. Case in point: commando raids. But same commandos don't do that to their friends in a bar brawl, do they?
You can see that in nature and life as well, among animals, and other species. You'd hunt or slaughter dangerous animals from behind, or failing that, from the side. Too, a wolfpack, or a hunting lioness, would be trying to get to you from behind - in order to get a free shot at you without retaliation. The rules are similar for most living organisms.
At the same time, if they're fighting the same species, and it's a mating fight (which doesn't need end in death), they'd usually avoid going to the back and attacking the spine. Same thing with animals that have horns: they bash their skulls to show dominance, but try to disembowel you and me. Because we're from a different species and different rules apply."
Was there supposed to a be clip of his video Asen?
Without much context to go on, I don' know. I think the bigger issue is its really hard to protect your back, but it is also really hard for people to strike your back when you are facing them. That said, kidney shots, like you point out, are pretty painful. Yes a liver shot is horrible (no argument there). After years of doing full contact martial arts (from taekwondo to muay thai to boxing), I can't say I've had too many injuries to my back. My worst injury was a rib injury, which I suppose was more on the side (I guess it might be considered the front depending on how you are dividing things). That probably could have happened anywhere along the ribcage. All my worst injuries were probably taken from the front but then most full contact striking martial arts you are facing one another. And if I had a choice between being slammed face down or face up, probably would go with face up. I do feel like there are probably more vulnerabilities in the front, but that might just be from not getting attacked all that much from behind. The only part of my back I've really been that conscious of in exchanges is my kidneys.