the new Masks of Nyarlathotep

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Charlie D

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Anyone thinking of buying this for CoC 7E? I am intrigued.

"Black Pharaoh" by Loic Muzy for CoC 7E Masks of Nyarlathotep:
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Nice!

I own the core books but my group hate CoC so I’m not likelily to grab but nice art.
 
Nah. I own a few versions of the original. I don't need yet another.
 
Nah. I own a few versions of the original. I don't need yet another.
I had a version for 6E but it didn't really inspire me. Glad it works for you though.

This new version with the option for pulp and in full color grabs me.
 
I'm sure it'll have a healthy price tag.

Will it have any new content (besides a focus on pulp-mechanic play)? Or is it only colorized, and restatted, with the same packaged content? New content could be interesting, but a repackaging with 7E's worse system (IMO) doesn't inspire me.
 
It's not of interest to me, not being a fan of 7e or caring much about the art (which, from what I've seen, doesn't work for me in a horror context).
 
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I'm sure it'll have a healthy price tag.

Will it have any new content (besides a focus on pulp-mechanic play)? Or is it only colorized, and restatted, with the same packaged content? New content could be interesting, but a repackaging with 7E's worse system (IMO) doesn't inspire me.

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pre-release info sign-up: http://eepurl.com/dwlxJ9

announcement: https://www.chaosium.com/masks/

The definitive Call of Cthulhu tabletop campaign, reimagined.

In the decades since the beloved campaign Masks of Nyarlathotep captured imaginations, it's been played countless times. Year after year, investigators discover the world-spanning conspiracy that threatens to engulf the world, and race to avert a cataclysm from beyond our stars. In the new edition, the adventure is expanded and deepened with new challenges and foes.

With clearer navigation and informative guidance, the new edition is easier for Keepers, old and new alike, to weave together and run this definitive campaign for their investigators. Reimagined and updated, with comprehensive appendices, here is everything needed to run the campaign in 7th edition, for Call of Cthulhu or Pulp Cthulhu.

 

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I could do with a new, full colour edition...and I agree that it segues into the same ball park as Pulp Cthulhu, meaning that you may get a different feel to the campaign than previous editions. Moreover, I'm also getting the audiobooks and prop set this time round, so I'm all in for it. It'll be my big rpg investment this year.
 
It's very much on my group's to play list and therefore on my to buy list. I do have the older version and the companion but something finished in 7e format saves me prep and conversion time that I don't really have. Bring it on.

As far as I'm aware the new version is intended for Pulp Cthulhu and has designed with that in mind.

The only thing that consistently annoys the heck out me is all the pre-order hoopla and nonsense (not exclusive to Chaosium I have to add). Just release the bloody thing when it's ready and you can have my cash then.
 
Excited about it! I want to run that and Two-Headed Serpent as one giant, ultra-mega Pulp Cthulhu campaign.
 
If I go to a fine restaurant I don't expect to pay $4 because that is what Taco Bell charges for fast food. And I think it is fine if some people prefer Taco Bell over fine dining. But not all restaurants should be Taco Bell.
Weird fucking analogy. Or perhaps I've touched a nerve with you, and you're insulted, and it's making you passive aggressive. Taco Bell. Really? One of the most lauded campaigns in the history of gaming is Taco Bell.... :trigger:

If the original "beloved" campaign is Taco Bell to you, and the 7E version is haute cuisine then I think we'll fundamentally disagree on this topic. The content - the actual adventure content - and not the fluffy trimmings are what's most important to me. If the content is generally the same, then both products are high-quality tacos. How they're served up - via a food truck vs. a renowned restaurant - is the difference.

Clearly, presentation is a vital factor for you. Maybe the most important factor. Cool for you; go nuts. I have far more interest in the content than the packaging that the content comes in.
In the new edition, the adventure is expanded and deepened with new challenges and foes.
That's what I wanted to know. There have been changes to the core material.
 
Weird fucking analogy. Or perhaps I've touched a nerve with you, and you're insulted, and it's making you passive aggressive. Taco Bell. Really? One of the most lauded campaigns in the history of gaming is Taco Bell.... :trigger:

If the original "beloved" campaign is Taco Bell to you, and the 7E version is haute cuisine then I think we'll fundamentally disagree on this topic. The content - the actual adventure content - and not the fluffy trimmings are what's most important to me. If the content is generally the same, then both products are high-quality tacos. How they're served up - via a food truck vs. a renowned restaurant - is the difference.

Clearly, presentation is a vital factor for you. Maybe the most important factor. Cool for you; go nuts. I have far more interest in the content than the packaging that the content comes in.

That's what I wanted to know. There have been changes to the core material.


Your response seemed weird to me too, as if charging a decent price for an RPG was out of bounds. In fact, all four of your responses are mostly or partially negative. Did you think I'd change my mind and forgot all about CoC 7E and the new Masks because you don't like them? I'm not going to take CoC old editions or your Masks out of your hands or away from your table. But talking about CoC 7E and the new Masks is also okay. I just pulled the Taco Bell reference out so as not to trigger anyone again:trigger:.

You like it and that's great. But it isn't the end all be all of gaming campaigns. I don't think a Keeper could easily just grab it and the CoC rules and just run it:
http://www.yog-sothoth.com/topic/28167-masks-of-nyarlathotep-i-dont-see-why-its-so-good/

I'm fine with the original version. I used to own it and I've read it but it never inspired me to run it. Don't know why. It is softcover and black and white and requires a lot of prep to run as I understand it. I know a whole other book was written to provide support for it and it seemed like a lot of people were okay with that, so if an update takes that support and adds it that makes sense. I know keeping characters alive through the original was a concern for some Keepers.

I do want good content (although I have seen nothing to make me think this won't have good content) but I think packaging matters too for the health of the hobby overall. Art is part of an RPG and so is layout. I think black and white and softcover for a solid reason is fine (DCC RPG modules and the interior for Forbidden Lands comes to mind). But a solid hardcover with great content (rules, writing, editing, layout, art, and presentation) works well for a lot of RPGs. Yes, adventure content (I can underline too) includes everything in the book and quality extends to the cover, binding, paper quality, and more.

CoC 7E sees a lot of play at conventions and gets a lot of support from Chaosium. That is positive for the gaming community.
 
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I've already run the campaign three times, so I don't know it I need to do it again.

I'm a little iffy on the idea of changing a classic campaign too. It can probably do with a little re-organizing here and there, but adding so much additional content seems like messing with masterpiece. Was anyone's issue with MoN that it just wasn't long enough?

I don't know about adding a prologue adventure either. MoN has a great opening. The initial session is always very exciting and gets the players involved instantly. There is advice for writers that you always want to start your novel as late into the story as you can get away with. Adding more content onto the front of a classic campaign seems a questionable idea. Apparently, the idea is for the prologue adventure to give the players a chance to get to know NPCs before shit hits the fan. That just doesn't seems as compelling an opening as the one the original has. It feels like inventing a problem that none of my players ever had just so it can be solved.

Maybe all the new content will be fantastic though. Despite my concerns, I am hoping for this to be a success.
 
I've already run the campaign three times, so I don't know it I need to do it again.

I'm a little iffy on the idea of changing a classic campaign too. It can probably do with a little re-organizing here and there, but adding so much additional content seems like messing with masterpiece. Was anyone's issue with MoN that it just wasn't long enough?

I don't know about adding a prologue adventure either. MoN has a great opening. The initial session is always very exciting and gets the players involved instantly. There is advice for writers that you always want to start your novel as late into the story as you can get away with. Adding more content onto the front of a classic campaign seems a questionable idea. Apparently, the idea is for the prologue adventure to give the players a chance to get to know NPCs before shit hits the fan. That just doesn't seems as compelling an opening as the one the original has. It feels like inventing a problem that none of my players ever had just so it can be solved.

Maybe all the new content will be fantastic though. Despite my concerns, I am hoping for this to be a success.

I think it wouldn't be viable for Chaosium to continue to sell an adventure from the 80s for an edition they no longer support. Like it or hate it, most companies update RPGs when they need to make a major reprint and this includes adventures.

The good news is a whole new generation can enjoy the adventure now without trying to convert the rules. And the original can still be played too. So win win.
 
I think it wouldn't be viable for Chaosium to continue to sell an adventure from the 80s for an edition they no longer support. Like it or hate it, most companies update RPGs when they need to make a major reprint and this includes adventures.
I don't have any issues with them adapting it to 7th edition. That just makes sense. I'm just worried about them tinkering with the adventure itself.
 
I don't have any issues with them adapting it to 7th edition. That just makes sense. I'm just worried about them tinkering with the adventure itself.

I understand. I just can't think of any updates to an adventure to a new edition that doesn't get tinkered with. I'm not sure designers can easily help themselves!

And as my link above shows, some people do see a need for changes.
 
My group is going to be playing the new MoN as soon as it finally comes out. Lauren is really looking forward to running it. I think she's planning on using either Pulp Cthulhu or Trail of Cthulhu instead of CoC 7E though. She has the older version and the companion but is looking forward to the new material and prologue in Peru.
 
I've already run the campaign three times, so I don't know it I need to do it again.

I'm a little iffy on the idea of changing a classic campaign too. It can probably do with a little re-organizing here and there, but adding so much additional content seems like messing with masterpiece. Was anyone's issue with MoN that it just wasn't long enough?

I don't know about adding a prologue adventure either. MoN has a great opening. The initial session is always very exciting and gets the players involved instantly. There is advice for writers that you always want to start your novel as late into the story as you can get away with. Adding more content onto the front of a classic campaign seems a questionable idea. Apparently, the idea is for the prologue adventure to give the players a chance to get to know NPCs before shit hits the fan. That just doesn't seems as compelling an opening as the one the original has. It feels like inventing a problem that none of my players ever had just so it can be solved.

Maybe all the new content will be fantastic though. Despite my concerns, I am hoping for this to be a success.

You can always skip the prologue. Or re-work into its own, separate thing.
 
I understand. I just can't think of any updates to an adventure to a new edition that doesn't get tinkered with. I'm not sure designers can easily help themselves!

And as my link above shows, some people do see a need for changes.

And a lot of people in the thread you linked are very positive, and the issues that people have are mainly from people that didn't run it, or are things I wouldn't want to see "fixed". For example, the most common complaint is that it is a deadly adventure, but if that is the kind of problem the new version is going to address, then it is not going to be the same kind of experience at all.

One of the guys in the thread complains about how the adventure doesn't provide any support for replacement PCs, completely ignoring that it suggests a number of NPCs who can graduate to PC status, and that the publisher in New York can become a patron the group that they send notes back to, meaning that even in a TPK, he can assemble a new party in possession of the party's notes.

The chapter most complained about in the thread is the Australia chapter, which was wisely cut from the original version and later added in the '90s revision. That underlines my point. Last time they decided to make MoN longer, they made it weaker. Should I be excited that they are adding even more to it?

It's also notable that the guy who started the thread before fully reading it reconsiders partway through, becoming enthusiastic about running it after he finishes reading.
 
I've never run it myself, nor CoC or Pulp Cthulhu. I've seriously considered Pulp Cthulhu a number of times, though I don't know why I shouldn't use Mythras for it, or that it would make a lot of difference.

should I run MoN? Do we like Pulp Cthulhu?
 
And a lot of people in the thread you linked are very positive, and the issues that people have are mainly from people that didn't run it, or are things I wouldn't want to see "fixed". For example, the most common complaint is that it is a deadly adventure, but if that is the kind of problem the new version is going to address, then it is not going to be the same kind of experience at all.

One of the guys in the thread complains about how the adventure doesn't provide any support for replacement PCs, completely ignoring that it suggests a number of NPCs who can graduate to PC status, and that the publisher in New York can become a patron the group that they send notes back to, meaning that even in a TPK, he can assemble a new party in possession of the party's notes.

The chapter most complained about in the thread is the Australia chapter, which was wisely cut from the original version and later added in the '90s revision. That underlines my point. Last time they decided to make MoN longer, they made it weaker. Should I be excited that they are adding even more to it?

It's also notable that the guy who started the thread before fully reading it reconsiders partway through, becoming enthusiastic about running it after he finishes reading.

A straight up reprint might be preferred but I can't see any medium to large sized company doing that when upgrading to a new edition. At the very least it would have to be in color and hardcover I'd think to match the existing line. Even the Runelords adventure path from Paizo got updated when it was converted to PF and that launched their whole game and product line.

I guess I'd prefer a new version than no in print current edition version. It not like the new version will set fire to the old versions or make them unplayable. YMMV.
 
The only thing that consistently annoys the heck out me is all the pre-order hoopla and nonsense (not exclusive to Chaosium I have to add). Just release the bloody thing when it's ready and you can have my cash then.
Chaosium want you to spend money at their store, presumably because they get a fuller cut of the profit. By making you pre-order, and get the pdf initially (rather than at drivethrurpg) for 'free', they can also add you to their database as a potential long term customer. It's good business practice really.
 
I've never run it myself, nor CoC or Pulp Cthulhu. I've seriously considered Pulp Cthulhu a number of times, though I don't know why I shouldn't use Mythras for it, or that it would make a lot of difference.

should I run MoN? Do we like Pulp Cthulhu?
I think Pulp Chthulhu is the logical extension of where the 7E rules were heading with as much inspiration from 'pulpy' modern games like Savage Worlds or Fate more than anything. That is, it's downplaying the bleak, nihilistic vulnerability of characters in favour of something more heroic and action-orientated.

Masks of Nyarlathotep is good enough to stand on it's own merits plotwise, as a potential purchase, and will have high production standards this time round (full colour layout, lots of evocative art). However, it could be always interpreted in slightly more action orientated way anyway. the new CoC 7E rules aren't my favourite, but all these things certainly compliment each other well, though.

You could use Mythras - indeed Raiders of R'Lyeh is an unofficial Cthulhu ruleset based on Mythras rules - but you'd need to spend time on conversion and offset some of the grittier aspects in the combat rules to match what is presented in Pulp Cthulhu.
 
I think Pulp Chthulhu is the logical extension of where the 7E rules were heading with as much inspiration from 'pulpy' modern games like Savage Worlds or Fate more than anything. That is, it's downplaying the bleak, nihilistic vulnerability of characters in favour of something more heroic and action-orientated.

Masks of Nyarlathotep is good enough to stand on it's own merits plotwise, as a potential purchase, and will have high production standards this time round (full colour layout, lots of evocative art). However, it could be always interpreted in slightly more action orientated way anyway. the new CoC 7E rules aren't my favourite, but all these things certainly compliment each other well, though.

You could use Mythras - indeed Raiders of R'Lyeh is an unofficial Cthulhu ruleset based on Mythras rules - but you'd need to spend time on conversion and offset some of the grittier aspects in the combat rules to match what is presented in Pulp Cthulhu.

I have RoR as well, and I think I understand how to deal with the grit. I'm getting some feel for that in playing with savage worlds and classic fantasy, which are decidedly less gritty. I've been looking at pulling in some aspects of Flash Gordon as well (simplified skill list, creative combat options doing double duty as special effects in Mythras).
 
I ran the original version two years ago, but we stalled in Egypt and then the game ran out of steam. Always been wanting to pick up where we left off

We were using CoC 6E + homebrew Pulp Adventure rules. It needed rules to help survival to stop it being a TPK, plus the tone of the campaign easily lends itself to the pulpy action of Indiana Jones or The Mummy movies.

We played this monthly for at least 12 - 18 months, and only got 30-40% thru the campaign. Lots of fun sessions we had with this, although I just ran out of steam and became interested in other settings and systems.

Since then I have bought CoC 7E and Pulp Cthulhu. I think I may port those characters to Pulp Cthulhu 7E, and may resume the campaign at some stage.

This new edition is certainly not necessary, although the art looks great and it may help me regain my inspiration for this huge campaign.

I think I'll definately be buying the new version later this year.
 
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I think Pulp Cthulhu is great, personally. It keeps the evocative horror and vulnerability but you can fight back against it a little harder and add more weird-science aspects.
 
I think Pulp Cthulhu is great, personally. It keeps the evocative horror and vulnerability but you can fight back against it a little harder and add more weird-science aspects.
Sorry, how can you keep the vulnerability and fight back harder? The point is that, one of the characteristics of Call of Cthulhu was that fighting back in a heroic sense wasn't a sensible option meaning that the characters were more vulnerable than in typical heroic fantasy - making it a horrifying experience - and that, by extension character's usually had to think about other options.

Now, I don't mind the heroic action status of Pulp Cthulhu, but the tone of any game should be noted. Making characters more heroic and capable of dealing with threats changes the tone of the game accordingly.
 
Chaosium want you to spend money at their store, presumably because they get a fuller cut of the profit. By making you pre-order, and get the pdf initially (rather than at drivethrurpg) for 'free', they can also add you to their database as a potential long term customer. It's good business practice really.

Not if I'm an annoyed consumer it doesn't.

I'm already a customer of the company so there's only one direction our relationship can change in. And the pdf is "free"? Really? Things are actually free? What they're trying to leverage is my early adopter tendencies and psychological need to be there at the start of something cool. Fortunately for me I have neither of those needs thus the burgeoning annoyance.

Of course, it might make good business sense as it applies to 99% of your customer base but I don't really care about them. If there are more miserable old gits like me though.....
 
Not if I'm an annoyed consumer it doesn't.

I'm already a customer of the company so there's only one direction our relationship can change in. And the pdf is "free"? Really? Things are actually free? What they're trying to leverage is my early adopter tendencies and psychological need to be there at the start of something cool. Fortunately for me I have neither of those needs thus the burgeoning annoyance.

Of course, it might make good business sense as it applies to 99% of your customer base but I don't really care about them. If there are more miserable old gits like me though.....
It's 'free' (and note I did use apostrophes) insofar that the cost of the PDF is offset against the cost of the physical product as a discount. If you don't want to purchase as a customer, then that's up to you - but I can't see how this action should be deemed offensive in any way.
 
I don't consider it offensive in any way and I think you're getting a little carried away with my simply off-hand comment on being merely annoyed with marketing. Move on. I have.
 
I don't consider it offensive in any way and I think you're getting a little carried away with my simply off-hand comment on being merely annoyed with marketing. Move on. I have.
I'm just responding to what you said. I haven't anything to move on from!
 
Sorry, how can you keep the vulnerability and fight back harder?
I once ran a Lovecraftian game for Savage Worlds back before there was an official setting book. My solution to your question was to allow PCs to be your classic pulp hero types from a physical perspective. If they wanted to take on a mob of cultists, they were a lot more likely to succeed than a standard CoC group. At the same time, the Necronomicon could still drive the crazy, and you can't punch Cthulhu.

Allowing the players to be big damn heroes on a human scale just made the things they couldn't face even more scary. Even Indiana Jones can't take a peek inside the Ark of the Covenant and hope to survive.
 
I once ran a Lovecraftian game for Savage Worlds back before there was an official setting book. My solution to your question was to allow PCs to be your classic pulp hero types from a physical perspective. If they wanted to take on a mob of cultists, they were a lot more likely to succeed than a standard CoC group. At the same time, the Necronomicon could still drive the crazy, and you can't punch Cthulhu.

Allowing the players to be big damn heroes on a human scale just made the things they couldn't face even more scary. Even Indiana Jones can't take a peek inside the Ark of the Covenant and hope to survive.
They are still less vulnerable (with Talents and double HP). Even if they can't punch Cthulhu, there is whole spectrum of monstrous beings out there, a load of which become a lot more survivable when you make characters more survivable.
 
Now, I don't mind the heroic action status of Pulp Cthulhu, but the tone of any game should be noted. Making characters more heroic and capable of dealing with threats changes the tone of the game accordingly.
Yes, in fact I think this is the aim of Pulp Cthulhu. It will work well with some campaigns, and I can see Masks of Nylarthotep being one of them.
I wouldn't use Pulp Cthulhu for one-shots however, as I feel that 'fragile' characters is what makes these short scenarios work quite well.
 
Yes, in fact I think this is the aim of Pulp Cthulhu. It will work well with some campaigns, and I can see Masks of Nylarthotep being one of them.
I wouldn't use Pulp Cthulhu for one-shots however, as I feel that 'fragile' characters is what makes these short scenarios work quite well.
Agreed - I mean, I don't think the climax in The Haunting, for example, would actually work as a horror if the characters could just kick ass!
 
Sorry, how can you keep the vulnerability and fight back harder? The point is that, one of the characteristics of Call of Cthulhu was that fighting back in a heroic sense wasn't a sensible option meaning that the characters were more vulnerable than in typical heroic fantasy - making it a horrifying experience - and that, by extension character's usually had to think about other options.

Now, I don't mind the heroic action status of Pulp Cthulhu, but the tone of any game should be noted. Making characters more heroic and capable of dealing with threats changes the tone of the game accordingly.

Just because you can fight back harder on an individual level doesn't mean the overwhelming cosmic horror won't be your undoing in the end; that's how.
 
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