The Oscars: Chris Rock and the Fresh Prints of Bel-Air

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My cynical side insists the whole thing was preplanned to liven up/get some notoriety for the Oscars and column inches for the Smiths and Rock.
The fact the twitterati leapt on it like a sign of the end times just shows how bored everyone is of the news being full of Covid and Uncle Vanya's Ukrainian outing.
 
David Johansen said:
Even if the words are "come at me bro?"

I think, sometimes, fist fight would make more sense than what goes on these days. The lawyers like the current system for some reason so you know that can't be good.
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For the record, I tend to agree, especially lately:shade:.

Majestic said:
Yesterday I was listening to Kevin Hart and his friends on Sirius Radio's "Straight from the Hart". One of them pointed out that to Black people, there are three things that are the absolute worst thing you can do to them:

1) Use the 'N' word
2) Spit on them
3) Slap them

They were saying that all three go back to the days of slavery, when each of those was a common experience. They claimed that a slap is far worse than a punch, as it was a straight-up sign of disrespect.

Another one shared an interesting anecdote: he had read Will Smith's biography and said that in the early chapters Smith explained how he grew up in a home where his father beat his mother. He felt like a coward as he never intervened, even though his siblings did. This person then said that perhaps some of this is what caused Smith to snap.
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Interesting cultural detail, that.
Around here, we just consider it a way to be educational and correct behaviour without causing undue injury...But presumably Smith would know that, right?
And at the same time, a good slap can totally floor you.

Black Leaf said:
Even I'm bored of the Rock/Smith spat now. Only Hollywood could make fighting boring.
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And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with Hollywood:grin:!
 
thesheeep said:
Making jokes about medical conditions of other people? I'd hope that most comedians are above that.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to, everything is allowed in jokes.
But I am saying that it's a pretty lame target and not a good look at all.



Losing their shit and getting violent over a joke?
That's definitely not what anyone should do or find normal.

In typical Hollywood fashion, everyone involved ended up looking bad in this.

I am, of course, ever grateful for the memes that it will spawn from this point forward.
Cause those are golden :hehe:
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Number of people posting about this event who knew Jada Pinkett Smith actually had allopecia is...somewhat less than the number of people posting about this event.

Pinkett-Smith is kinda known for rocking the shaved head, because she's done it quite a bit throughout her career.
 
CRKrueger said:
Number of people posting about this event who knew Jada Pinkett Smith actually had allopecia is...somewhat less than the number of people posting about this event.

Pinkett-Smith is kinda known for rocking the shaved head, because she's done it quite a bit throughout her career.
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The extent to which I couldn't give less of a shit about Will Smith, his bald wife, or the slap heard round the internet cannot possibly be overstated.
 
I do want to point out that if you're going to slap Rock, make sure you have the right one. Because if you get it wrong The Rock is going to kick the shit out of you.
 
The Butcher said:
Fuck that noise. The Godfather tribute made me want to see the theatrical te-release something fierce. (Even though I’ve see the first two movies literally dozens of times.)
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I just realized that I've never seen a Marlon Brando film from before he got fat
 
I don't think this particular incident is a great one for using as a proxy for the discussion that is happening around it (it was a celebrity event, it was a slap, not a punch, etc). But I don't think someone telling a roast joke at an awards show warrants any kind of violence. It was personal, I am sure she didn't like the joke, I am unclear on how much Rock knew about her condition, but comedians are meant to knock celebrities down a peg: and the smiths are definitely at the apex of that universe----it isn't like he mad a joke towards some random person in the street. And in terms of punching down, Smith hit Chris Rock who is smaller, has a meek demeanor and is famous for his skinny physique. I also think Chris Rock looked a lot more composed and came out looking much better than Smith (who just didn't seem to be in control: he could have hit him and looked in control, but this looked like someone who was being driven by their emotions). That said, I don't think anything needs to come of it.
 
Black Leaf said:
I simply avoid making jokes about other people's autoimmune conditions.
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I think this is a complicated topic. But I have several autoimmune issues. I have long been of the opinion it is much better for people to be able to joke about them with me, even at my expense if we are chop busting (which is how the Rock joke read to me), than to have it be this off-topic forbidden thing where people have to wear rhetorical kid gloves around me. I get that not everyone with a condition is going to share that view. But I do think treating people like they are special or their feelings are that fragile, and creating a silence of humor on the topic, can be just as bad, if not worse. Personally, that isn't a joke I would have made. I don't think it should be off the table for comedy though. And I definitely don't think the best response to being offended by when it is directed at you or someone close to you is to slap the person. If Will Smith and his wife were offended, that is fair. That is a reasonable reaction. But I think talking to him after the event, would have been a much better way of handling it.
 
Smith resigned from the Academy before they could decide on punishment for his actions. He can still attend shows, be nominated for an Oscar, etc. He won't be able to vote on anything though. SAG is considering disciplining him too. I'm doubtful he'd lose his membership, so I guess we'll see
 
Voros said:
Yeah this is crazy behaviour from Smith because of the public nature of the situation.

If it had happened at a drunken party that would have been something else but on an international broadcast?

And his speech after was delusional and beyond egoistic. He seems unbalanced, probably either mental health or drug issues or a combo of both. Or he's a terrible person.

And look, I used to get into street fights in my early 20s if anyone said anything insulting to me or my gf but I eventually realized that it was pointlessly dangerous and macho nonsense that could lead to either myself or the other guy getting seriously injured or dying. So I grew up. My macho behaviour back then is embarrassing.

Smith could have talked to Rock later and demanded an apology or called him out for the disrespect during his speech or to the press after the awards

Also by hitting him in that situation Smith is cowardly as he knows that there's no way that Rock could respond in kind, Rock was the one who had to be professional and he knew it. Could you imagine how humiliating it would have been for the Black community in the US if Rock had thrown hands in return?

Here is a guy who makes a living hitting people, really hard, who I'm sure as a Cuban had a much tougher background than Smith AND he has alopecia with a far more mature and non-macho stance than the guy whose career is built on 'Parents Just Don't Understand.'

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I agree a lot of what you said about past macho behavior. Similar experience as well. I think growing up with that kind of behavior, you also see where it can lead (it is great to be protective of family, your girlfriend, your wife, but I've also seen things happen like the wrong guy get beat up because of mistaken identity). I also have come to see the kind of behavior Chris Rock displayed while being hit as more "macho' than what Will Smith did. There is something to be said for taking the hit, moving on, not pressing charges

Also violence is one of those things that can go sideways fast. Slapping and punching doesn't normally lead to anything too serious, but it can. And it isn't nothing. It certainly isn't on the same level as a mean joke. I don't think there was any serious risk to rock. But I did watch and rewatch that slap on youtube to see how Smith moved into the hit, and there was more force in that than a light slap (he torqued his shoulders, put his hip into it and even pivoted a bit on his rear foot). It could have been enough to knock him out if Rock wasn't bracing for it or didn't see it coming. Probably wouldn't have happened, but a possibility. Just doesn't seem like the slap, the shouting after, really matched what had happened.
 
Stumpydave said:
My cynical side insists the whole thing was preplanned to liven up/get some notoriety for the Oscars and column inches for the Smiths and Rock.
The fact the twitterati leapt on it like a sign of the end times just shows how bored everyone is of the news being full of Covid and Uncle Vanya's Ukrainian outing.
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This is kind of crucial for me. Part of it, I imagine, is people are tired of grim news like war and pandemics, and this was almost like a moment of levity in the culture (but maybe we are locked in a kind of doom and gloom about, so painting the slap in apocalyptic terms was just natural for everyone). My feeling is it was a celebrity awards ceremony. I expect antics. I am not surprised if someone loses their temper in this way. I don't think there need to be any consequences for it beyond any embarrassment any of the involved parties feel the next day. There is a discussion though around violence, honor and words that is interesting and probably worthy of having (because clearly people are split pretty down the middle not that topic). I do think the specific circumstances that led to it being discussed is probably not the best one in the world, and it isn't evidence of the world going to hell or anything (just celebrities being celebrities).
 
urbwar said:
Rock seems to be rebounding just fine post-slap. Ticket prices for his new tour have gone up, and he got a five minute standing ovation from the audience at the first show of the tour in Boston after he asked "So, how was your weekend?"
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That show has been all over the local news here. I saw one interview of a guy who was pissed he paid so much but Rock only briefly mentioned the incident on stage.
 
So funny tangent. I just logged into Starz on my Roku. In the list of "Featured for You" is a Chris Rock movie (Spiral: From the book of Saw). Right next to it is a Will Smith movie, which just happens to be Concussion. I now this is likely just some algorithm, but I still had to laugh when I saw that
 
AsenRG said:
Interesting cultural detail, that.
Around here, we just consider it a way to be educational and correct behaviour without causing undue injury...But presumably Smith would know that, right?
And at the same time, a good slap can totally floor you.
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This is an interesting point. I imagine our different locations and cultures is shaping a lot of peoples reactions. The US has a lot of gray areas around this which also probably makes it a little hazy. And it varies considerably from state to state (self defense laws where I live are very, very strict). For example you can easily be arrested and charged with assault for slapping or punching someone, but like others have pointed out, more serious altercations happen all the time at parties, bars, etc. There are bar fights all the time around here. People usually look the other way. And I see lots of fights after parties on my street (seems like less these days but during the summer I feel like I hear a fight once a week). And even when police do arrive, it is normally after the fight, no one seems to get charged (I am sure it happens I just haven't seen anyone on my block get put in a car). No one really bats an eye at these. But if the police wanted to, if a person who got hit wanted to, someone could still get in serious trouble. And there are lots of different attitudes about the right way to behave in this situation. I've heard of people spending 6 months away for what sounded like not much more than a bar fight.

One thing I think makes this a little different to me, is one person slapping another person, wouldn't normally be seen as a corrective to behavior here. A parent slapping a child would be considered a corrective (probably not any more but when I was growing up it would have been pretty typical punsihement for bad behavior). An adult hitting another adult is a different story. It would be seen as inviting a like response. I think the general attitude is if someone hits you or slaps you, you hit them right back or they are going to walk all over you. This is also different from bar room altercations and scraps at parties, where most of what I have seen has been two people both engaging each other and escalating incrementally until it comes to blows. Whereas this was Smith walking up, slapping him, Rock doing nothing, and Smith turning his back and walking away (which I don't think would happen in a bar room situation). Also I think there is a general attitude of this is the kind of thing people can get away with in their 20s, but the older you get the more likely it is you are going to see someone press charges or people react negatively.
 
BedrockBrendan said:
I think the general attitude is if someone hits you or slaps you, you hit them right back or they are going to walk all over you.
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Those are different stories in my book. The crucial difference IMO is, there's no intent to continue with the corrective punishment.

Like, what you seem to be thinking about is a classic bully tactic. Someone stays at range, calls you names, if you don't do anything, proceeds to pushing, slapping, then harder hits...and yeah, if you don't hit him right back, he is going to walk all over you.
But that's just an insecure bully testing whether you're ready to retaliate. And it's all part of his dance, serving to help him to persuade himself he's that big bad angry predator that can do whatever without anyone daring to respond in kind.
Going from 0 to 100 should actually deescalate this one. Or if it doesn't, it couldn't be avoided anyway (and yes, there are situations like that), at least not at this stage. Maybe you could have done something else at an earlier stage, but honestly, at this point it's too late to care.

The difference with corrective punishment is quite large, IMO. And the lack of intent to continue is crucial.
Someone calls you whatever, you slap or cuff him, maybe twice, but then stop. If the guy does accept it, the "social contract" is that you're not going to hurt him any more.
Too, an important part is that the party being hit knows he did wrong and why exactly he is getting slapped, or punched.
Yes, it can lead to people trying to escalate, if they don't accept that this is bad behaviour on their side (or if they mistake it for the "bully probe", above). Or if the guy thinks you're not going to stop before putting him in hospital...
Now, the caveat is, going from 0 to 100 on someone that's giving you a lesson like this is invitation to stomp you* into the ground. There's more than one reason, but above all: you showed yourself to be disputing the fairness of the punishment, so you need a lesson to remind you that it's bad to do that kind of stuff.
Basically, the guy is trying to make sure you're going to have nightmares about committing that specific transgression...:devil:

Now, that's again different from someone who considers himself so slighted only sending you to hospital or worse would settle it. That's not "corrective slapping", though, that's vengeance...and usually due to something far more serious than mouthing off (although it depends what you mouthed off and regarding whom:shade:).


*Unless you can finish it right there, of course. In which case it's not about who was right.
 
While it is technically a less violent action than punching, a slap carries some of its own baggage related to dominance. At least with males of many cultures a slap is more "triggering".

Consider that a slap was often the prelude to declaring a duel. A slap signified a challenge differently than a more "manly" punch.
 
Toadmaster said:
While it is technically a less violent action than punching, a slap carries some of its own baggage related to dominance. At least with males of many cultures a slap is more "triggering".

Consider that a slap was often the prelude to declaring a duel. A slap signified a challenge differently than a more "manly" punch.
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As far as I know, in the era of duels (like, 17th century), a punch would have lead to a challenge as well.
 
Stewart Lee has pitched in and as always it's so heavily laden with irony I'm still unsure of his actual views.

Rock is one of the world’s greatest standups, and his 1996 routine about the black community’s perception of itself is in the all-time top 10. Hosting the Oscars is quite frankly beneath him and they should have just let Ricky Gervais do it again, as he has no dignity to lose. Rock wouldn’t host a corporate Christmas gig for a logistics company and agree to mention the CEO’s wig and the time Sally from accounts was sick in a plant pot, so why is he whoring himself out in the same way to the Academy? Rock brings shame on the nobility of the standup’s profession.
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From https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-will-smith-i-certainly-did-oscars-chris-rock
 
Black Leaf said:
Stewart Lee has pitched in and as always it's so heavily laden with irony I'm still unsure of his actual views.



From https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-will-smith-i-certainly-did-oscars-chris-rock
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Neither am I. But from what meaning I could glimpse between the lines of irony, it seems he thinks that Will Smith was in a lose-lose position anyway, and that both him and Chris Rock were losers, including for dancing to a script that ultimately benefited someone else:shade:.
Can't say I disagree with most of it:thumbsup:.
 
I can't stop laughing.

From The Mirror: "UFO expert genuinely believes aliens could be scared of Will Smith after watching Oscars"


Will Smith could be scaring off alien life if they have intercepted our TV broadcasts and mistake Men in Black for reality, an expert has claimed.

Nick Pope, 53, worked for the British Government and probed UFOs for the MOD, and said it is likely that extraterrestrial life is aware of our existence and could even be monitoring us.

He said it would be easy for an advanced race to watch our TV, but they may not be aware of what fiction is and might think that Men in Black and Independence Day are documentaries.

Nick said that after watching the Oscars, where Smith appeared to slap comedian Chris Rock, any alien lifeform thinking about visiting earth could now be rethinking it.
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Man, even UFO experts have to weigh in on the Will Smith/Chris Rock altercation.
 
Apparition said:
I can't stop laughing.

From The Mirror: "UFO expert genuinely believes aliens could be scared of Will Smith after watching Oscars"




Man, even UFO experts have to weigh in on the Will Smith/Chris Rock altercation.
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"If we never make contact with UFOs, it's not that I've studied any kind of non-existent subject, it's that THEY WERE SCARED WILL SMITH MIGHT SLAP THEM!"
 
AsenRG said:
While I wouldn't exclude it, yes, it might have given him a pause.
OTOH, if it was Vinney Jones and Will Smith had done the same, it would have been way more entertaining:shade:!
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That it would have been! Poor old Will would have had to go to the hospital to get a few teeth removed from his head. Old Vinne J. was a notorious biter. ;)
 
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