The Perfect Mecha RPG

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TristramEvans

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Spinning off from several of the answers in the "Get to Know Me" thread...

X. MECHA Pass, HERO could do it but with poor vehicle rules not a strength. Maybe GURPS. I've not found something that does mecha well. Like Battle Tech but Mech Warrior was kind of meh.

X. MECHA I've been trying to find a perfect system, but I think a heavily houseruled Heavy Gear could do the trick

X. MECHA - None. Wish there was one I liked, as I love the Mecha stuff


This seems to be a common sentiment - that no RPG gets Mecha "quite right". It's one that I've shared over the years. Mekton was allright, but I never cmpletely "clicked" with the Fuzion system outside of TFOS, and Mekton Zeta wa a lt of fun in the same way as Burning Wheel - very enjoyable to fiddle around with the creation rules on my own time, but I can only imagine being a nightmare to actually use in a game. Alt of mech games seem to be either to light/handwavy (BESM) too crunchy for not-a-miniatures-wargame (Time of War), or too restrictive/tied to their own lore (Lancer, Heavy Gear). Nothing I've encountered yet has hit that "sweet spot".

So, since I'm not the only one that feel that way, the question is, what would a "perfect" Mecha RPG look like? What does it asolutely have to include? What should combat/build rules be like? If there was a Mecha RPG that was to mecha as Ars Magica is to magic, Pedragon is to Arthurian legends, H.O.L. is to holes, what pitfalls of prior games does it need to avoid and what does it need to do that those games can't or won't?
 
Spinning off from several of the answers in the "Get to Know Me" thread...








This seems to be a common sentiment - that no RPG gets Mecha "quite right". It's one that I've shared over the years. Mekton was allright, but I never cmpletely "clicked" with the Fuzion system outside of TFOS, and Mekton Zeta wa a lt of fun in the same way as Burning Wheel - very enjoyable to fiddle around with the creation rules on my own time, but I can only imagine being a nightmare to actually use in a game. Alt of mech games seem to be either to light/handwavy (BESM) too crunchy for not-a-miniatures-wargame (Time of War), or too restrictive/tied to their own lore (Lancer, Heavy Gear). Nothing I've encountered yet has hit that "sweet spot".

So, since I'm not the only one that feel that way, the question is, what would a "perfect" Mecha RPG look like? What does it asolutely have to include? What should combat/build rules be like? If there was a Mecha RPG that was to mecha as Ars Magica is to magic, Pedragon is to Arthurian legends, H.O.L. is to holes, what pitfalls of prior games does it need to avoid and what does it need to do that those games can't or won't?
Fight the fighting game RPG 2e is the only mecha game I'd entertain:shade:!
Your mech is your Fighter. Outside of it you're an extra.
 
I liked the early designs that Michael Prescott for a PbtA/The Regiment Mecha game. I know PbtA isn't your thing but know that while the early designs were very focused on getting the mecha combat right he intended to develop the out-of-mecha character/soap opera elements aspect of the game. He seems to have moved on to working on a cool little space salvage game now but I thought he had lots of good ideas in his design.


I'm not a Mecha fanatic but I grew up with the cartoons and what grabbed me as a kid was the dynamic, fast-paced, slightly gritty battles combined with the romance and interpersonal melodrama of the characters outside their mechs. That balance would be the key to me.

The combat is tricky because to me it can't get too crunchy because it should feel fast and furious but also with enough depth to be fun and strategic because combat is so important to the genre and so you can feel like a badass.
 
So for me, as someone who has been searching for the "Perfect Mecha Game" there are some very specific things that I'm looking for where a lot of games fall short:

1. Mecha controlled by very few stats of the character itself. So being good at piloting a mecha is just "have high Agility/Dex and Pilot Skill". This leads to every pilot feeling samey and interchangeable in mechs unless someone just builds their character as "less good" at being a pilot.

2. Games that just stat mecha as a completely separate character, so your character's stats mean NOTHING to being in a mecha. This works if you never ever use a different mech, but my general thought is "If Heero Yuy jumps in a Leo, he still kicks your ass cause he's Heero Yuy".

3. Games where personal combat and mech combat feel identical. Give me some differences! Otherwise it doesn't feel like there is a point. (This is one where I have an example of a game that does this well: Jovian Chronicles has a different damage system in personal vs mecha, personal has a generic death spiral, mecha have damage to specific systems. Additionally the Space movement rules are dope and make me want to run every mecha fight in space).

There are more things I complain about, but those are the big three.
 
1) Mecha should have rules to make them feel important to the game.

2) Mecha should have weight. I'm not saying you should keep track of a unit's weight but in play, it should give a subtle nod to being a reasonably large warmachine in action.

3)The system should allow for constructing (mechanically or narratively) different mecha for different campaigns so the game has a lot of replayability without always going back to the exact same setting.

4) Play should be quick. Battletech fails horribly at this both in the game and in the setting. In realistic terms, one modern missile would end a Battletech unit's day. So rather than focus on big war machines that crawl across the landscape with rules that feel like death by a thousand cuts, focus instead on fast results in play and rapid action in the game setting. Gundam is worth noting that it runs all over the map, but it always feels 'fast' relatively when mecha are doing things. Even Votoms with its 'tin cans' feels like the mecha are reasonably fast in action and slow mechanics slow down that feel.

5) The game should allow both "troop" design and individual custom mechs for PCs. Rules might differ for handling a hero on named villain mechs, rather than a hero on mook mechs. Though it doesn't have to.

6) Pre-constructed parts. IF the game has rules for making all the mech parts, make sure you've dozens of pre-built parts for every category, so that in a pinch one can throw a mecha together for play.
 
Mecha is kind of a broad genre so what kind matters. Battle Tech with its big fighting robots is quite a bit different from Macross with its transforming mecha. I'm not super familiar with Gundam but I gather it is somewhere in between Macross and Battle Tech, maybe leaning more to the Battle Tech side. Then you have some stuff that is more like super duty power armor than pure mecha (Heavy Gear? been quite sometime since I looked at it). Then you have your Steam Punk / Diesel Punk Mecha like Gear Krieg, again more on the power armor end.


For me I like Battle Tech for the mechs, but didn't feel like Mech Warrior lived up to my wants. It has been a very long time so I can't offer specifics, other than being very underwhelmed. Battle Tech also had the issue of screwing everything other than mechs, not through mechs being superior but by basically using mook style rules for non-mechs.

Anyway my ideal would be something like Battle Tech with a few changes and a good RP system. The Car Wars RP rules actually worked pretty well for what was an after thought, and there are many similarities. In a game where the real focus is on the machinery (mechs or armored autos), the machinery fighting rules are critical.
RP rules I want something good enough that the PCs have individual character, and can do stuff outside of the armor, but it doesn't have to be highly detailed because 80-90% of the action is going to be in the armor, meat sacks in a game like Battle Tech or Car Wars are just too soft and squishy.
 
Mecha is kind of a broad genre so what kind matters.


This is true, I feel like there are three overall categories -

Mecha as fighter ships - Gundam, Robotech, Voltron
Mecha as tanks - Battletech, X-O Squad
and Mecha as Psychological Projections - Evangelion, Gurren Lagann

I think the Ideal Mecha game would be able to handle all three, but I also think there's probably an argument for ideal games focusing on just one
 
I'll reiterate some of the above:
  • The need for a game where everyone is a mecha pilot that there has to be some differentiation (Hotshot, Survivor, Veteran, Commander, Rookie, etc.)
  • Awesome stuff going on inside and out of the Mech.
  • Details about the Conflict and the Mechs make a difference.
  • I want quick rules and quick mech construction (modular?)
 
I feel like mecha is a little like supers and wuxia in that a lot of the RPGs that cover the genre focus on trying to recreate all of the possibilities without reflecting a lot of the appeal. As such, most mecha RPGs seemed focused on constructing mecha even though that forms very little part, if at all, of most popular mecha shows. Personally I would like to see a mecha RPG that allows mecha stats to be an extension of, and influenced by, the pilot. The pilot would also be an interesting character by themselves. Mecha combat should be personal combat with an additional layer to represent the interface between mecha and pilot.

Essentially, I think for me, there would be two ideal mecha RPGs. The first would be one that would have a PC focused traditional system with a mecha overlay. The mecha options would provide a variety of choices, but need not be too granular. A dozen mecha models would be fine. Cthulhutech is almost very much this RPG and would need a little work to streamline it further. The second would be one that fully leans into the narrative and drama of mecha shows. I would be looking at something like Hearts of Wulin or Masks but for mecha. This would leave a lot of the mecha detail flexible and open, and the style of the PC would be used to guide what a PC can do in their mecha.
 
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Mekton Zeta - Pretty much has everything everyone has been saying must have. The game is fast to play and easy to play. You can have troopers, trooper in battle suits, vehicles, large vehicles, and space craft all with the same rules. You do have to build your own setting (though it comes with one).

Also note: You can fight at various scales and interact (yes, you can shoot a handgun at a mech and maybe plink enough damage over time to do more than paint scratches).

Plain old Mekton (if you can find it) if you want the giant robots of the early anime era. Argol has a feel much like Voltron with the Lions.


And You can easily use Hero 4/5 for Mecha. The vehicle rules are very very complete. Star Hero will be the go to. (dig out Robo-Hero if you can). Build what you want (which is part of the problem as it varies too widely... so the GM should build all the base mecha). It is a little less exciting than Mekton or certain mecha games, as you are using much of the same mechanics as a character fighting. A mecha game would require too much GM pre-work before the chronicle started.
 
Also note: You can fight at various scales and interact (yes, you can shoot a handgun at a mech and maybe plink enough damage over time to do more than paint scratches).
Not so much, not the way Kills work IIRC. Admittedly this is how I one Front Mission 3 (they'd destroyed my main's mech, but he had a pistol and kept plinking, yes it worked because I hit it every round, and it missed every round eventually pistol vs mech won.)
 
Anyway my ideal would be something like Battle Tech with a few changes and a good RP system. The Car Wars RP rules actually worked pretty well for what was an after thought, and there are many similarities. In a game where the real focus is on the machinery (mechs or armored autos), the machinery fighting rules are critical.
RP rules I want something good enough that the PCs have individual character, and can do stuff outside of the armor, but it doesn't have to be highly detailed because 80-90% of the action is going to be in the armor, meat sacks in a game like Battle Tech or Car Wars are just too soft and squishy.

Interesting thought there, bringing up the Car Wars rules, and the way they added the RPG stuff after. Its kind of weird that SJG or someone didn't make a Mech version of Car Wars (obviously not counting Ogre, not the same thing...) Seems like it wouldn't be hard to do, it definitely supported a different feel for most cars and weapons in the game, and your driver's skills definitely affected how well you could do certain maneouvers and stunts.
 
So I've heard marvelous things about Lancer, and while I did read some, I remember nothing. Might be worth checking out though.
Lancer has been highly recommended to me by several people and it's been on my "to read" pile for a while. The core rulebook is free on itch.io. I've heard good things about their digital toolset. Since I don't have to work tomorrow I am going to check it out tonight!
 
Having just recommended it I think I should probably read it as well. I was working off of the considered opinions of others, but I like to make up my own mind too.
 
There are streamlined, "cinematic" rules included with the Mekton Zeta GM screen, for those who find the full ruleset too clunky.

I've always been curious about Mecha Aces, since it's FUDGE-based, but I've not gotten around ro buying it yet. I think the folks behind it made an anime-themed FUDGE game, called Heart Quest, or something like that?
 
I found Lancer incredibly restrictive - you're basically only able to play in the setting of Lancer, and adapting it to any other Mecha settting would require so much work you'd be essentially writing a new game.
 
I found Lancer incredibly restrictive - you're basically only able to play in the setting of Lancer, and adapting it to any other Mecha settting would require so much work you'd be essentially writing a new game.
This is what I found as well. You can play any setting you want with it, as long as that setting is Lancer.

Granted if it is the setting you want, it is a nifty game.
 
There's always Mekton Zero. :closed: (I kid, I kid. That was one of the few Kickstarter campaigns that burned me good.)


Essentially, I think for me, there would be two ideal mecha RPGs. The first would be one that would have a PC focused traditional system with a mecha overlay. The mecha options would provide a variety of choices, but need not be too granular. A dozen mecha models would be fine. Cthulhutech is almost very much this RPG and would need a little work to streamline it further. The second would be one that fully leans into the narrative and drama of mecha shows. I would be looking at something like Hearts of Wulin or Masks but for mecha. This would leave a lot of the mecha detail flexible and open, and the style of the PC would be used to guide what a PC can do in their mecha.

Have you taken a look at the Robotech RPG by Strange Machine Games? I think it strongly scratches your second itch.
 
My favorite Mecha wargame was Adeptus Titanicus as I experienced it in the 80s. At that time all you did was pick up a mech body and in round robin and back pick arms and shoulders weapons. So easy and fast. Not as cool as say Battletech with its different weight classes but easy to get into.

Then layer any Roleplaying element on top of it. Should be fun.
 
Merton Zeta is probably still my favourite system, but the rules as written could be a bit cumbersome to say the least.
I think it’s a fair statement to make; that various sub-genres of ‘mecha’ deserve game systems that best represent them.
Gundam-styled mecha being different from ‘super sentai’ styled robots, or something like Mighty Atom.

Kids today! Recommend Lancer, but I confess I am yet to see the system.
 
I had a lot of fun playing in a campaign that mixed TT Battletech with Mechwarrior. We did all the out-of-mech bits TotM and then busted out the figs when we suited up and just roleplayed over the tabletop stuff. There was some connection on the stats side, but I don't remember how that worked.
 
I had a lot of fun playing in a campaign that mixed TT Battletech with Mechwarrior. We did all the out-of-mech bits TotM and then busted out the figs when we suited up and just roleplayed over the tabletop stuff. There was some connection on the stats side, but I don't remember how that worked.
That’s how I would be tempted to run it. That said if you are doing super agile anime Mecha, especially adding in flying, I would probably default to a lighter game with TotM for mecha combat as well.
 
That’s how I would be tempted to run it. That said if you are doing super agile anime Mecha, especially adding in flying, I would probably default to a lighter game with TotM for mecha combat as well.
Yeah, flying really changes the whole project. Unless that was specifically what I wanted this is also the reason I would probably make Mechs non-flying. I find a lot of aerospace TT games to be over fiddly for my taste.
 
I've been looking for the "perfect" mecha game for a long time as well, and it's hard. Very hard to do well.

First of all, "mecha" is very broad. "Mecha as a super giant robot against enemy armies" is completely different from "mecha as mass-produced tank alternative". The two options require completely different assumptions.

Second, there's an incredibly difficult balancing act required between "mecha combat rules are so simple and generic to become boring and samey" and "welcome to the RPG equivalent of Star Fleet Battles. Have you filled your 32-impulse energy and movement allocation form for the next turn yet?"
On one hand, I would like fast, dynamic, tactically interesting combat. On the other hand, there has to be a significant difference not just between Veritechs and Destroids, but between different models of them too, otherwise what's the point of having them in the first place?

Third, you have the "inside the mecha / out of the mecha" duality. I suspect having two essentially separate systems is almost a requirement here, but it comes with the pain of having to learn and use two systems at the same time. Not everyone is going to be willing to do it.
 
Not for nothing, but there were some Lost Worlds style Battletech combat books, by Alfred Leonardi. Not suggesting these as a viable substitute for anything mentioned here, just saying they were pretty cool.
 
GURPS Vehicles of course! There's a Pyramid article called Modular Mecha by David L Pulver that does a decent job of a lighter, faster Mecha system for GURPS. You can also do Mecha reasonably well with GURPS Spaceships and they even statted out Megatron.

Though, the Spacemaster Privateers Tech Law Vehicles would do as well. One of the things I always feel that SPAM got right is the complexity level of vehicles and vehicle design.
 
My favorite Mecha wargame was Adeptus Titanicus as I experienced it in the 80s. At that time all you did was pick up a mech body and in round robin and back pick arms and shoulders weapons. So easy and fast. Not as cool as say Battletech with its different weight classes but easy to get into.

Then layer any Roleplaying element on top of it. Should be fun.
Forges of Mars has a titan legion pack as one of the side-stories, and the interpersonal jostling for rank between legio members would be fun to play out, but it seems more of a discrete scenario thing than something that would make a fun campaign (Especially as some characters are basically brains-in-jars...).
 
First of all, "mecha" is very broad. "Mecha as a super giant robot against enemy armies" is completely different from "mecha as mass-produced tank alternative". The two options require completely different assumptions.
I believe this is one of the reasons why Mecha RPG systems are married to settings and tend to be narrow in scope. "Mecha" is a big tent that encompasses dozens of tropes and setting assumptions. It's far easier to craft a system that accommodates some of them in a stellar manner than to craft a system that does all of them adequately.
 
Silhouette is the closest any game I've seen gets to what I want. But it's also one of those ones where I'm like "man, this needs a bit of streamlining" but then I see someone tried to streamline it and it loses the magic if it is streamlined much.

(Jovian Chronicles 1e is 100% my go to for Silhouette).
 
Interesting thought there, bringing up the Car Wars rules, and the way they added the RPG stuff after. Its kind of weird that SJG or someone didn't make a Mech version of Car Wars (obviously not counting Ogre, not the same thing...) Seems like it wouldn't be hard to do, it definitely supported a different feel for most cars and weapons in the game, and your driver's skills definitely affected how well you could do certain maneouvers and stunts.

It is kind of surprising that SJG never got on the mechs bandwagon. It was certainly a popular thing when CarWars was hot, and as you say doesn't seem like a big jump to go from cars to mechs. Not mechs in Carwars but simply a lot of the basics were already there. I'm guessing it was all the focus on that new GURPS game they were dealing with, and SJGs interest in CarWars seems to have been spent by the late 80s.

GURPS Autoduel was actually one of the most underwhelming GURPS books to me. They completely dumbed down the vehicle side which is so strange considering that GURPS vehicles would later be a notoriously dense system. Had they been smarter about it, GURPS Autoduel would have simply integrated the GURPS RP aspects with CarWars for the on the road stuff.
 
There's a Fate Core mecha game that I liked mechanically, though I think it was cod-Arthurian and I didn't like that so much. I'll need to have a look and see if I can dig it out.
 
Have you taken a look at the Robotech RPG by Strange Machine Games? I think it strongly scratches your second itch.
Briefly. It seemed more in the camp of generic rules light, much like FATE or Tinyd6, which I tend to bounce off of. I usually like some structure to my narrative focused RPGs.
 

That is a GURPS book I've actually never seen, but I was actually meaning a standalone game like Car Wars or Ogre, something comparable to Battle Tech. It seems like the mini-games format of the past is no longer popular, Metagames, Task Force Games, early SJG.

On the plus side I just saw SJG offers all or at least a lot of the old CarWars stuff in digital format.
 
Yeah, but it's GURPS. :grin:

I mean, we all know that you *can* do Mecha with GURPS... but we also know that you don't *want* to do Mecha with GURPS.
So there was this one time I wanted to do Mecha with GURPS and put the time in to make some mechs and some 1" = 15' hex maps and we started playing and it soon became aparant that machine guns were vastly superior to missiles. Afterwards, I checked my math and found my error. The missiles should have been doing 840 dice not 84 dice, so my bad but I never did get to do it again. I was accused of wanting GURPS Vehicles 4e for wargaming (here on the pub irrc) by Dr Kromm or Phil Reed IRRC. To which I responeded with a hearty hell yes!

Ah well, GURPS Vehicles is fun but it would be 1000 x more fun if it was in metric. Can I say "megafun" without getting sued by Palladium? Oh well, I've done a mech up in Galaxies In Shadow but I'm not really a big mecha guy.
 
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