The Perfect Mecha RPG

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Skywalker said:
Briefly. It seemed more in the camp of generic rules light, much like FATE or Tinyd6, which I tend to bounce off of. I usually like some structure to my narrative focused RPGs.
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Make a note that there are also 2 Robotech games - that one, and one for Savage Worlds
 
bleys21 said:
Yeah, but it's GURPS. :grin:

I mean, we all know that you *can* do Mecha with GURPS... but we also know that you don't *want* to do Mecha with GURPS.
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You underestimate how much some of us love d6s. And it's based off the old vehicle rules so it's not that bad... other than the fistful of d6s. And when we were running something at that scale, we'd actually come up with a way to roll fewer d6s with not that much skew from probabilities.
 
chuckdee said:
You underestimate how much some of us love d6s. And it's based off the old vehicle rules so it's not that bad... other than the fistful of d6s. And when we were running something at that scale, we'd actually come up with a way to roll fewer d6s with not that much skew from probabilities.
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Yeah, I couldn't resist the joke :-)

And seriously, it seems like everyone except me loves those bastard little d6's. But when you have a Terminator squad, and you roll your armor saves and get like all 1's and a 2... lets just say, me and d6's, we got a problem, you see? :grin:
 
Giant Robot Class: Walker
Cost: 5 724 000
Technology Factor: 40
Empty Mass: 143.1t
Loaded Mass: 149.2t
Volume: 133m3 (Size +60)
Acceleration: 2.1 m/s2 (Signature +80)
Top Speed: 13m/s / 46km/h
Range: 20 hours
Fuel Capacity: kl
Crew: 1 Pilot
Passengers: 0
Life Support: Basic
Cargo Capacity: 0
Carried Craft: none
Sensors: Wide Spectrum 20km
Arms: 120t Capacity, Strength 2191
Weapons:
Missile Pods
Auto Cannons
Lasers
Armour: 786
Structure: 160t capacity, rating 2828
Hit and Damage Locations:
1 & 11 Head 1 - 2 Pilot 3 - 4 Sensors 5 - 6 Lasers 7 - 10 Turret Mechanism
2 - 3 & 12 - 13 Torso 1 Missile Pods 2 - 3 Power Plant 4 - 6 Fuel 7 - 10 Turret Mechanism
4 - 5 & 14 - 15 Arms 1 - 2 Autocannons 3 - 5 Actuators 6 - 10 Ammunition
6 - 10 & 16 - 20 Legs
 
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Toadmaster said:
That is a GURPS book I've actually never seen, but I was actually meaning a standalone game like Car Wars or Ogre, something comparable to Battle Tech. It seems like the mini-games format of the past is no longer popular, Metagames, Task Force Games, early SJG.



On the plus side I just saw SJG offers all or at least a lot of the old CarWars stuff in digital format.
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A lot of the old Car Wars stuff is available in physical format again as well. I mean, A LOT.
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David Johansen said:
So there was this one time I wanted to do Mecha with GURPS and put the time in to make some mechs and some 1" = 15' hex maps and we started playing and it soon became aparant that machine guns were vastly superior to missiles. Afterwards, I checked my math and found my error. The missiles should have been doing 840 dice not 84 dice, so my bad but I never did get to do it again. I was accused of wanting GURPS Vehicles 4e for wargaming (here on the pub irrc) by Dr Kromm or Phil Reed IRRC. To which I responeded with a hearty hell yes!

Ah well, GURPS Vehicles is fun but it would be 1000 x more fun if it was in metric. Can I say "megafun" without getting sued by Palladium? Oh well, I've done a mech up in Galaxies In Shadow but I'm not really a big mecha guy.
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In the real world I'm bi-metrology favoring US Customary (aka "Imperial" which is actually a 3rd system used in the UK but not the USA), but fully fluent in metric. However in RPGs I do tend to favor the metric system unless it impacts the game flavor. Even then it is fairly easy to use metric for mechanics and the appropriate system for time and place in descriptive text.

Gringnr said:
A lot of the old Car Wars stuff is available in physical format again as well. I mean, A LOT.
1f07cb.png
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Hmmm that could be useful. I had a near complete collection of the classic era and still have a large portion of it, but would be nice to have new particularly for maps and counters.
 
This is not the Fate Core Mecha game I went looking for, but it's the one I found.

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It has a bunch of stuff available, including a Super Sentai expansion. Obviously this is very much one particular flavour of the mecha-pop.

The one I was thinking of must be in the Fate Worlds book I have in storage.
 
JAMUMU said:
This is not the Fate Core Mecha game I went looking for, but it's the one I found.

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It has a bunch of stuff available, including a Super Sentai expansion. Obviously this is very much one particular flavour of the mecha-pop.

The one I was thinking of must be in the Fate Worlds book I have in storage.
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No. there's another. It's by Machine Age Productions and is one of the KS that I'm very mad at because I was stupid enough to give them money after they fact when they said they were ready to deliver the print which has never come.

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chuckdee said:
No. there's another. It's by Machine Age Productions and is one of the KS that I'm very mad at because I was stupid enough to give them money after they fact when they said they were ready to deliver the print which has never come.

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Super frustratingly it's not that one either. I want to say Excaliber Trigger or something like that.

But yeah as to those MAP guys? Fuck those MAP guys! Imma hate them for you.
 
chuckdee said:
No. there's another. It's by Machine Age Productions and is one of the KS that I'm very mad at because I was stupid enough to give them money after they fact when they said they were ready to deliver the print which has never come.

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They also were going to do several smaller setting ones along with the main one that never materialized. You can still find the playtest docs for Princess Drive though which was a magical girl mecha setup.
 
EmperorNorton said:
They also were going to do several smaller setting ones along with the main one that never materialized. You can still find the playtest docs for Princess Drive though which was a magical girl mecha setup.
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Add to that the fact that they're still publishing stuff for iHunt (which I didn't look at on principle... about the i, not the KS lol) and it makes me even angrier.
 
JAMUMU said:
Super frustratingly it's not that one either. I want to say Excaliber Trigger or something like that.

But yeah as to those MAP guys? Fuck those MAP guys! Imma hate them for you.
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CAMELOT TRIGGER! That's what it's called. Mecha Houses in the Sol System fighting each other. Different factions holding the different planets. Build-your-own-mecha rules as part of character creation. I need to dig that out.
 
JAMUMU said:
CAMELOT TRIGGER! That's what it's called. Mecha Houses in the Sol System fighting each other. Different factions holding the different planets. Build-your-own-mecha rules as part of character creation. I need to dig that out.
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Ah... it's in Spanish- that's why I'd not heard of it. It also appears that it's in Worlds in Shadow also, which I assume would be in English, so I'll check it out!
 
chuckdee said:
Ah... it's in Spanish- that's why I'd not heard of it. It also appears that it's in Worlds in Shadow also, which I assume would be in English, so I'll check it out!
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I have Worlds in Shadow but it's in storage and I didn't do the storing so I'm unlikely to see it soon. Glad I remembered the name though, means I'm not as badly damaged as I thought!
 
I need to deep dive Lancer at some point. I did a character for the January thing and was... uninspired. Although that could be because starter characters seemed super limited. Plus the free pdf is kinda crap for sorting through the options and upgrades.
 
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sharps54 said:
Well those and the original, superior Palladium Robotech :shade:
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Palladium Robotech is one of the few Palladium games that was not a disappointment to me. It functioned pretty well for Robotech, and would have to be at the top of Mech RPGs I've tried, but that is a low bar.

Really not bagging on Palladium, love a lot of the settings generally not pleased with the implementation.
 
I finished off the free Lancer pdf this morning and give it two thumbs up. Pardon my brief and incomplete writeup, it's more of a hot take than a comprehensive review. Here is a professional review that does a far better job of explaining how everything works.

I happen to see great potential in the setting. The possibilities of post-scarcity civilization have not been explored enough in RPGs. Much like Star Trek, in Lancer I see an opportunity to explore ethical and social issues with PCs acting as the vanguard of Union bringing civilization and justice to far-flung worlds. That being said, there's absolutely nothing preventing players from being mercenaries or pirate scum if they prefer.

Character creation is simple. You pick 4 triggers, a couple mech skills, 3 talents and some gear. As you can see below, there's not much to it. PCs are largely defined outside of their mechs by "triggers" that reflect their background, training, personality etc. somewhat similar to PbtA and BitD mechanics. For mech combat there are 4 mech skills and talents which are analogous to feats. Here's an example of how simple character creation is:

Brock “Bronco” Savage
Background: Celebrity Athlete
Triggers:
  • Apply Fists to Faces +2
  • Charm +2
  • Lead or Inspire +2
  • Stay Cool +2

Mech Skills:
  • Hull +1
  • Agility +1
  • Systems
  • Engineering
Talents:
  • Brutal
  • Executioner
  • Tactician

Play is structured around missions with clear goals. Before and after the missions, play outside of the mech uses freeform narrative mechanics that are elegant, simple and fast. This is also the time where PCs prepare for missions. Notably, the mechs are modular which means pilots can customize their kit for a particular mission which I thought was cool.

Things get more granular and structured once the mission starts. The system switches to tactical turn-based play that brings to mind the better parts of D&D 4e. I feel like tabletop representation of some kind is pretty much mandatory, whether it's a hex map and counters or the excellent and free COMP/CON app. Even though the system is simple to learn I'd probably run through a couple skirmishes solo or with a friend to nail things down before hosting a game.
 
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Mecha Hack, which is a riff on Black Hack, captures everything I want in a Mecha game.

Though, Lancer is an amazing game. It’s not that hard to refluff it to whatever setting you want
 
chuckdee said:
we have one side that says it is, and another that says it isn't. Any big reasons either way that can be presented?
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well, there's an easy test. User Lancer to make a Gundam, a BattleTech Atlas, and an Eva from NGE...
 
I actually really like Palladium Robotech, before it got splatted out to oblivion. I also liked the Shadow Chronicles corebook.

Mega damage as a concept worked really well when it was restricted to mechanized combat. Veritechs were a little fiddly, but pretty fast when it came to mecha dogfights.

There's been a bit of noise around Lancer, but I've not really read or played it.
 
TristramEvans said:
well, there's an easy test. User Lancer to make a Gundam, a BattleTech Atlas, and an Eva from NGE...
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I've managed that in Dungeons the Dragoning (which is appropriate for that game, and it supports rough modeling of bicycles through to Dune sandworms as vehicles in about 20-22 pages) but I don't know about Lancer. I can see the echos of BT and a bit of other stuff but the mechanics are... I'll try.

One thing, I've got the free version. It has no pictures. This sort of thing changes the tone of the game quite severely. I'm only seeing the hard numbers and bare mechanics, without any interpretation. I'll try a those three mecha.
 
chuckdee said:
we have one side that says it is, and another that says it isn't. Any big reasons either way that can be presented?
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TristramEvans said:
well, there's an easy test. User Lancer to make a Gundam, a BattleTech Atlas, and an Eva from NGE...
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I don't have enough system mastery to definitively say whether Lancer can adequately emulate all of the distinctive mechs from notable IPs like Battletech or Gundam but my gut tells me that the answer is probably no. For example, Battletech has a different weapon mounting scheme, armor, hitboxes, facing, heat, etc that Lancer doesn't bother with so you'd have to either handwave it or kludge a homebrew. Gundam and Macross mecha have flight and extreme mobility that Lancer would struggle to emulate; for example I am pretty sure no Lancer mechs can fly into orbit.

What gets people excited about Lancer's system and setting is that is can emulate many of the mech tropes and setting conceits right out of the box so to speak. The distinction between freeform narrative play and tactical turn-based mech combat structured around missions provides a solid base for a lot of campaign styles

  • A Robotech-style soap opera where combat missions are an interlude in between the personal storylines? Sure
  • A gritty war story with the narrative elements focused on preparing for the next mission instead of personal drama? Simple.
  • A campaign focused on urban arena mech combat with WWF-style drama between rival celebrity pilots? Yep
  • Faction play and corporate intrigue on the wild frontier of human space? Easy.
 
When I was a teenager, Mechton Zeta and Mechton Zeta Plus were amazing, but now they are too much. BattleTech is too much. Lancer is cool but isn't generic. I agree with the thread's premise; most are either entirely too crunchy or too handwavy.

The best one I have found that meets most of what I want is Battle Century G Remastered. It is still a bit lighter than I would like, but it is closer than most.

I would love to see a streamlined Silhouette Core with a damage system similar to the one seen in Cthulhutech 1st edition for mechs with a point system for customizing mechs that has both sample settings with prebuild mechs and a system to design your own tied into the skill/crafting system. With a system to divert power/bleed heat without getting too into the weeds. So, you know...probably some ridiculous app-assisted TTRPG/boardgame fusion.
 
Brock Savage said:
I don't have enough system mastery to definitively say whether Lancer can adequately emulate all of the distinctive mechs from notable IPs like Battletech or Gundam but my gut tells me that the answer is probably no.
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Having blown a couple hours last night I think it's do medium & heavy Battletech mechs ok. An Atlas can be roughly emulated (biggest mech is 30 feet instead of 30 meters) at level 15 but you'll probably be dropping the secondary armaments to get max armor. That's fine since without ammo there's no reason not to spam the best guns. What it'll struggle with is stuff like a Locust with three times the Atlas's speed. Looks like it's ok on veritech too, you'll just be using most of your space and first six levels or such to get real flight. It'll probably be... 'squint real hard & its ok-ish" where stuff is recognizable after you tell someone what its supposed to match.

Biggest things are that the squares are ten feet, so a mile is 528 squares and the max weapon range you're getting is probably under a hundred, with most being in the 10-40 range (the amount of "Battletech size/range fridge logic fail" is cubed). Then there's the dice. They really really really want you to stay in the -2 to +6 range. It's going to be rare to get an evasion or electronic warfare defense (to be hit/ac) of 17+. They've tightened the range of everything to fit it to a tabletop battlemat and make everyone able to catch, hit, and miss everything (like buildings & the ground being technically evasion 5). Also didn't see in the GM section anything about setting up types of missions, but that may just be the free version making bunker+arty style a thing on missions without timers.

Lancer really feels like it's trying to emulate s few certain specific mecha anime shows where the people are part of a major military with functionally unlimited resources. Married to a combat set up that's been forced (and it feels quite forced to me) down to fit on a two foot by three foot battlemat with one inch squares and minis, while keeping all the numbers in a specific, very constrained, range.
 
Brock Savage said:
For example, Battletech has a different weapon mounting scheme, armor, hitboxes, facing, heat, etc that Lancer doesn't bother with so you'd have to either handwave it or kludge a homebrew.
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Battle Tech has its issues (many) but it is the closest to what I want from a mech game. Most are far to soft edged and handwavy. I want something with hard crunch but at a complexity in the CarWars range. I like that Battle Tech made you make choices with speed, heat management, armor, firepower and range all being significant factors to consider.

Where Battle tech fails for me is where the took short cuts or just handwaved stuff. Disappointed that the never addressed non-human formed mechs, no 4 legged, tracked, bipedal armless, huge turret head etc, and the weakening of non-mechs through crummy tables rather than vehicles just being cheap and weaker things.

It has been a long time, so specifics are hazy, but where Mechwarrior failed for me, was mostly it just not lining up well with Battle Tech and being kind of a weak game overall.
 
TristramEvans said:
well, there's an easy test. User Lancer to make a Gundam, a BattleTech Atlas, and an Eva from NGE...
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That's just testing to see if it can emulate a specific setting. I think the more apt one is if it is tied to the setting because of something in the system, and I think the answer to that is no. It might not be able to do a specific setting, but that doesn't mean it's not able to be used outside of the Lancer setting.
 
chuckdee said:
It's not a generic system, so as with any system, some things might make a hack necessary. But it isn't tied to its setting as was also stated above.
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I don;t disagree with that, but your response was to my response to a specific claim.
 
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