The Perfect Mecha RPG

[Silverlion]

Anybody look at this...

OneBookShelf

www.drivethrurpg.com

... Seems to have a fair few cheap add-on supplements too to expand based on needs?

I'm no mecha expert but I do agree with many that when I've tried looking at a game system that scratches my itch they are either way way waaaaaaay too crunchy or too narrative in their pitch.

EDIT: Actually, there's a free quickstart... https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/79879/MECHA--Quickstart?manufacturers_id=2550

It's a rather good game. Pretty loose, but its movement system takes some thought. I'm still absorbing it.

 

[Telok]

Alright. Gonna give Lancer another shot. Four noob mecha built from what I learned last time. Same opposing force, although I'm thinking of replacing the scout with something else. Slightly different map. In fact, I'll let you all choose the map.

It's just a bit up the road from the last try, instead of "find the guy with info" the mission will be "extract guy before others get him". But there's three versions of the map.

#1, big like last time. Still apparently a freaking insane huge map by Lancer standards, even with 20 foot wide hexes. At least it's interesting.


#2, subsection of the big map. Still 20 foot hexes which makes the shooting range 16 hexes long. Feels very... confined.


#3, the big one but with hexes inflated to 50 feet across. While it makes the map "reasonable" for Lancer, the side effect of poofing everything up is that only some of the trees on the map are as tall as a mech amd the terrain is functionally flat. So we have to lie about building and wall sizes to make them matter. Plus we lost lots of details.

 

[EmperorNorton]

Anybody look at this...

OneBookShelf

www.drivethrurpg.com

... Seems to have a fair few cheap add-on supplements too to expand based on needs?

I'm no mecha expert but I do agree with many that when I've tried looking at a game system that scratches my itch they are either way way waaaaaaay too crunchy or too narrative in their pitch.

EDIT: Actually, there's a free quickstart... https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/79879/MECHA--Quickstart?manufacturers_id=2550

I have the original printing of it (only difference as far as I know is the cover art). It is... fine. It is a pretty light game. The combat is actually a neat little light tactical mini-game. The in between fights part is really really loose.

It is very much narrative outside of combat.

I don't think it would be to the taste of most people here tbh.

 

[ffilz]

Alright. Gonna give Lancer another shot. Four noob mecha built from what I learned last time. Same opposing force, although I'm thinking of replacing the scout with something else. Slightly different map. In fact, I'll let you all choose the map.

It's just a bit up the road from the last try, instead of "find the guy with info" the mission will be "extract guy before others get him". But there's three versions of the map.

#1, big like last time. Still apparently a freaking insane huge map by Lancer standards, even with 20 foot wide hexes. At least it's interesting.


#2, subsection of the big map. Still 20 foot hexes which makes the shooting range 16 hexes long. Feels very... confined.


#3, the big one but with hexes inflated to 50 feet across. While it makes the map "reasonable" for Lancer, the side effect of poofing everything up is that only some of the trees on the map are as tall as a mech amd the terrain is functionally flat. So we have to lie about building and wall sizes to make them matter. Plus we lost lots of details.

This is a challenge with table sized battle maps. At any reasonable scale for miniatures, a table top just isn't very big.

I'm really starting to appreciate virtual table top and the ability (despite repeated warnings) of having huge maps. The biggest I have done is a roughly 200m x 300m map with 1m hexes. I took one of the pages of the map of The Free City of Haven and dropped it into Roll20 and then adjusted the scale of things to get 1m hexes. Earlier I had done a whole village map the same way but it was smaller. For my Cold Iron campaign, I set up a 400m x 400m battle map with 2m hexes. These maps would never have been possible table top.

But even with that, for modern weaponry, it would be impractical to do things as small as 1m or 2m hexes. At least not without an app based VTT that downloads the whole map to the app and just continuously updates token information and scribbles (so over a short amount of time, only a modest amount of data is being transmitted). It would be cool to go there because it would be cool to have very large battle maps (1km x 1km for low tech, 10km x 10km for high tech) with hexes/squares in the 1m to 3m or 1 yard to 10' range and let the maps be very detailed. Of course grid should be optional.

 

[ffilz]

BTW, the scan of the 8"x10" Haven map scaled up just fine, here's a screen shot of part of the map:


And here's a shot of the village map, where I dropped an appropriate scaled scan of a separate interior map onto the big map:

That was just super cool and something that would have been a pain to do on table top. In the old days, if I needed some of the exterior, I would have put that interior map (which was scaled 5' to the inch) under my clear hex mat, and then hand drawn the area around the shop. With VTT, I could combine maps at two different scales.

 

[Telok]

Heh, I got a 1.7 km spaceship deck into owlbear rodeo with 2m hexes. Mostly to see if the site could hangle it. I wouldn't expect any actual fight on the ship to use more than 200 - 300 meters at a time.

Of course I also did a beach fight with 10m hexes that worked fine, because the opening shot was a rocket launcher to the face at 350m. They actually ended the fight in melee lopping off a head.

What I came up with, weirdly similar to the Chris Perkins Mecha bullseye, was a small "scrimmage" map off to the side. When a multi-person melee happens (not needed for just 2 or 3 people) a token goes on the big map and a bit with 4 edge zones and a center zone goes on. Some simple rules and your having a reasonable scrum in the middle of a big map firefight.

 

[Moracai]

I just dug out my old copy of Battletech. I don't know from what year it is from but it says FASA copyright 1985, and it has MAD-3R Marauder mech in it, which mysteriously vanished from at least some later editions, probably due to copyright issues would be my guess. Man, Marauder rox!!

An early fanmade PC mech game named Titans of Steel: Warring Suns was one of my favorites. It had a bit wonky tonnage system, and IF I remember correctly 1 km hexes . I remember blasting an enemy mechs head off in it with a plasma cannon from about 9-11 hexes. Good times...

 

[TristramEvans]

I just dug out my old copy of Battletech. I don't know from what year it is from but it says FASA copyright 1985, and it has MAD-3R Marauder mech in it, which mysteriously vanished from at least some later editions, probably due to copyright issues would be my guess. Man, Marauder rox!!

Marauder is one of the Reseen

 

[Moracai]

Marauder is one of the Reseen

At a quick glance Battletech wiki said about the MAD-3R specifically that it is one of the Unseen. Other models of Marauder are Reseen.

 

[TristramEvans]

At a quick glance Battletech wiki said about the MAD-3R specifically that it is one of the Unseen, whatever that means...

here's a whole thread explaining what that means...

 

[Telok]

Well tried Lancer mech action again. Tons of niggly little fiddly bits. Still took near 3 hours despite less looking up. Many more attacks but more misses, although that was because of the number of inaccurate weapons, which was because those extra 5-7 hexes of range and no loading prop make a huge difference in getting to act and the -d6 only seems to matter 1/3 of the time (as in: of all the shots with penalties being 75% because a fucjton of cover this map we'd see hits go from ~45% to ~70% if and only if absolutely nobody ever had any cover or penalties at all).

Any ways, spoiler crap.

Spoiler

+++++ ART +++++
size 1, armor 0, sensor range 10, save TN 10, attack +0
hull: hp 16, repair cap 6, mod +2
agl: evade 8, speed 4, mod +0, agility checks & saves +1d6
sys: e-def 8, tech attack +0, SP 6, mod +0
eng: heat 6, bonus limited +0, mod +0

modules: at rest 1 repair = 1 structure
personalization[1sp](+2 hp),
jump jets[2sp](fly when boosting & end on ground),
2 open SP for mission specific

--1/scene quick action as free action
--1/mission core power protocol (start of turn free action toggle) for rest of scene +d6 all attacks check saves
& 1/turn free action boost(move speed)
1/round reaction overwatch quick action attack target for leaving weapon threatened space
1/round reaction brace resist attack's damage and to EONT -1d6 attackers & no free action & no reactions
& no normal move & no overcharge & no full action & only one quick action
1/turn reaction on any miss fly 2 spaces
1/round on attack with auxiliary melee fly 3 spaces towards target before attack & ignore engagement & reactions

heavy= main cannon, range-15, arcing, inaccurate(-1d6), blast-1, 1d6+1 explode,
main= main CQB, range-5, threat-3, 1d6 kinetic, +1d6 at range 3-
flex(aux/aux)=
aux melee, overkill(1 dmg=+1 burn), reach-1, 1d3+1 energy
aux CQB, range-5, threat-3, reliable(1 dmg on miss), 1d3 kinetic, +1d6 at range 3-

+++++ BEN +++++
size 1, armor 0, sensor range 10, save TN 10, attack +0
hull: hp 16, repair cap 6, mod +2
agl: evade 8, speed 4, mod +0, agility checks & saves +1d6
sys: e-def 8, tech attack +0, SP 6, mod +0
eng: heat 6, bonus limited +0, mod +0

modules: at rest 1 repair = 1 structure
personalization[1sp](+2 hp),
jump jets[2sp](fly when boosting & end on ground),
2 open SP for mission specific

--1/scene quick action as free action
--1/mission core power protocol (start of turn free action toggle) for rest of scene +d6 all attacks check saves
& 1/turn free action boost(move speed)
1/round reaction overwatch quick action attack target for leaving weapon threatened space
1/round reaction brace resist attack's damage and to EONT -1d6 attackers & no free action & no reactions
& no normal move & no overcharge & no full action & only one quick action

heavy= heavy cannon, inaccurate(-1d6), range-8, 2d6+4 kinetic,
main= main cannon, range-15, arcing, inaccurate(-1d6), blast-1, 1d6+1 explode,
aux/aux= _TWO_ aux CQB, range-5, threat-3, reliable(1 dmg on miss), 1d3 kinetic, 1st atk your turn +1d6, +1d6 at range 3-

+++++ CIA +++++
size 1, armor 0, sensor range 10, save TN 10, attack +0
hull: hp 16, repair cap 6, mod +2
agl: evade 8, speed 4, mod +0
sys: e-def 8, tech attack +0, SP 6, mod +0
eng: heat 6, bonus limited +0, mod +0

modules: at rest 1 repair = 1 structure
personalization[1sp](+2 hp),
jump jets[2sp](fly when boosting & end on ground),
2 open SP for mission specific

--1/scene quick action as free action
--1/mission core power protocol (start of turn free action toggle) for rest of scene +d6 all attacks check saves
& 1/turn free action boost(move speed)
1/round reaction overwatch quick action attack target for leaving weapon threatened space
1/round reaction brace resist attack's damage and to EONT -1d6 attackers & no free action & no reactions
& no normal move & no overcharge & no full action & only one quick action
3/mission (recharge 1/rest if at zero) 1/round free action order/suggest to ally & they get +1d6 to go with it

heavy=heavy melee, reach-1, 2d6+1 kinetic,
main=main cannon, range-15, arcing, inaccurate(-1d6), blast-1, 1d6+1 explode,
flex(aux/aux)= _TWO_ aux nexus, vs e-def, range-10, 1d3 kinetic, 1st atk your turn +1d6

+++++ DEL +++++

size 1, armor 0, sensor range 10, save TN 10, attack +0
hull: hp 16, repair cap 6, mod +2
agl: evade 8, speed 4, mod +0
sys: e-def 8, tech attack +0, SP 6, mod +0
eng: heat 6, bonus limited +0, mod +0

modules: at rest 1 repair = 1 structure
personalization[1sp](+2 hp),
jump jets[2sp](fly when boosting & end on ground),
2 open SP for mission specific

--1/scene quick action as free action
--1/mission core power protocol (start of turn free action toggle) for rest of scene +d6 all attacks check saves
& 1/turn free action boost(move speed)
1/round reaction overwatch quick action attack target for leaving weapon threatened space
1/round reaction brace resist attack's damage and to EONT -1d6 attackers & no free action & no reactions
& no normal move & no overcharge & no full action & only one quick action
1/round on nexus crit target system save vs slowed+impaired

hv & mn= _TWO_ main cannon, range-15, arcing, inaccurate(-1d6), blast-1, 1d6+1 explode,
flex(aux/aux)= _TWO_ aux nexus, vs e-def, range-10, 1d3 kinetic, ON CRIT, 1st atk your turn +1d6

OPFOR, two tanks on the road, three squads searching, one scout

TANK (assault vehicle) two tanks
size 1, armor 1, sensor 8, save 10, skills +1
hp 15, ev 8, ed 8, heat 8
speed 4 (straight line), no arms, only melee is ram, no self right from prone
** main rifle, d20+1, range 10, 6k, reliable 2
-- 1/turn reaction on hit gain resistance to the hit
ignore difficult terrain
may carry one squad or one size 1/2 unit

HIVE one
size 1, armor 0, sensor 10, save 12, agl+0 sys+2 eng+1, hull-1
hp 20, ev 8, ed 8, heat 8
speed 5
** nexus, d20+2 vsEdef, range 8, BURN 3, (AP & eng save @ end of target turn repeat|clear)
** "drone", quick tech, d20+2, range sensors, IGNORE LOS, target choose immobilized & impaired
_OR_ free move 5 spaces attackers choice
** swarms, "drone" quick action, recharge 4+, unlimited ammo, lasts until HIVE destroyed, range sensors
in empty zone, IGNORE LOS, blast 1, allies soft cover, enemy start/enter on their turn = BURN 2

SQUAD (squad) three squads
size 4(1/2each), armor 0, sensor 10 save 10, skills+2
hp 10, ev 8, ed 8, biological(immune tech except lock&scan & take heat as damage)
speed 4, immune grapple ram kb stun & cannot melee, does not count as taking up squares
always soft cover & never hard cover
resist all damage not from AOE
** guns (2x if hp>5), d20+2, rng 5, 2k
** big gun, d20+1, rng 10, 5k

SITREP FOR OPFOR
agent with data hiding in a building
scan and apprehend
deploy from east map edge
attempt to capture alive
drive off any enemy units if possible
kill agent if necessary to prevent escape

SITREP FOR PCS
agent with data hiding in a building
scan and evacuate
deploy from west map edge
kill agent if necessary to prevent capture.

-----

OK, just going with the big map because the others are... blech-scale... and we're set up, ABCD on the east edge, H T1 T2 Q1 on the west edge, Q2 and Q3 in the tanks. Also, everyone is color coded this time. Also didn't remember before starting to decide what the last 2 sp each mech was so they all get a passenger seat.

turn 1: turn 2: turn 3: moves & boosts & scans, H & T1 & T2 all took 1 heat for overcharge just to get places, then H scanned the building the agent was in and stuff got urgent, the tanks can't climb the wall so they're moving to cut off ABCD

A d0 h0, B d0 h0, C d0 h0, D d0 h0, H d0 h1/8, T1 d0 h1/8, T2 d0 h1/8, Q1 d0, Q2 d0, Q3 d0

turn 4: A= boost, move, 1/scene=boost, overcharge=boost, and can't do anything with the last half action. H= moves to the top of the wall and down into compound, uses swarm to block a zone. B= matches A's move. Q1= moves up, we're still over 20 squares away from the nearest target. C= core protocol activate, free boost, 1/scene=boost, move, overcharge boost, tech buff A because we can't do anything else with that half action, boost. T1= move & boost through the trees and disgorge Q2 adjacent. D= duplicate C's turn but tech buff B. T2= duplicates T1 except overcharges for +2 heat for more distance before discharging Q3. Q2 & Q3 both move & boost, 2 for intercept and support Q1 while Q3 goes for the agent.

A d0 h1/6, B d0 h1/6, C d0 h1/6, D d0 h1/6, H d0 h1/8, T1 d0 h1/8, T2 d0 h3/8, Q1 d0, Q2 d0, Q3 d0

turn 5: A= move, boost, lob a shell at Q3 d20-2d6 9-(3|5) miss. H= swarm recharges on 6, move, boost, swarm. B= move, boost, lob a shell rolled a 4. Q3= move, potshot A 4+1-2 miss, boost into compound. C= move, free move, lock Q3, drop a shell between T1 & T2 10-6 & 8-4 misses, fine then overcharge 2 heat for a second shot 7-1 & 18-4 T2 reacts to resist damage 3+1->2. Q2 moves, boosts, fires small gun twice at C 5+2-3 & 8+2-5 misses. D= move adjacent to C and begin barrage consume lock on Q3 +d6-2d6=-d6 & roll twice -> 6-4 & 5-6 second shot 6-(5|3), overcharge +3 heat, 1-(5|2) miss. Q1 move and shot once at C 10+1-4 miss. T1 & T2 move & boost and still are too far to shoot anything.

A d0 h1/6, B d0 h1/6, C d0 h3/6, D d0 h4/6, H d0 h1/8, T1 d0 h1/8, T2 d2/10 h3/8, Q1 d0, Q2 d0, Q3 d0, attacks=14, 2 hits

turn 6: C= lock on Q2, move, free boost, cannon at H +d6-d6 -> 12 hits 4+1. H= no recharge, move, "drone" tech C 9+2 hit & C chooses immobilized & impaired, boost move into swarm for cover. D= free boost, move next to C, barrage C1&2 using C1 lock +2d6-2d6 (17|20) on Q2 and 6-3 on Q1... I've been switching C & D this whole time, ok, swapping names in the text file so it matches the map & commentary here... damage is (3|6)+1 -> 7, second shot both rolls at +d6-2d6 13-6 & 7-4 misses. Q2= move, shot at d 6+1-6, boosts to back off. A= we're all rolling like utter shit so activate core protocol, move, free boost, barrage & hunter lets us fly 3 before the aux melee attack on Q3 5 miss, aux gun 20 damage is (2|2), main cqb 5 miss. Q3= barrage A 13+2->2, 14+2->2, 4+1 miss. B= move, barrage, hv cannon at Q3 15-(5|1) -> 9/2=5, cannon at Q1&Q2 5-(5|2) & 17-(6|4) -> 4 to kill Q2. Q1= move, boost, shoot at B 9+2-3 hit 2 & 10-4 miss. T1= moves, overcharge +1 heat boosts, locks on B & shoots 7 miss -> 2. T2 moves, locks on B & shoots 9 -> 6.

A d4/14 h1/6, B d10/14 h1/6, C d0 h3/6 immobile impaired, D d0 h4/6, H d5/20 h1/8, T1 d0 h2/8, T2 d2/10 h3/8, Q1 d3/10 Q2=DEAD, Q3 d7/10, attacks=21, 8 hits

turn 7: B= move up one, barrage, move back one, shoots is 2 aux at Q1 13+3 & 8 -> 3/2+2/1->3 then hv cannon at T1 8-(6|6) miss. H= swarm recharges, overcharge +3 heat to swarm, move into it, full tech invade on D 13+2 hit of +2 heat and impaired then "drone" A 18+2 who chooses move and gets shoved 5. C= cannon between Q3 & H 15-6 & 2-4 so Q3 takes ouchy 7 and dies, lock on H. Q1= barrage B 9+2-5 & 9+2-4 & 8+1-3 all misses, then fall back a bit. D= barrage cannon H with lock & Q1 +2d6-26d (14|8) -> H takes 6+1, 15-2 hits Q1 for 1+1, move, free boost next to B, overcharge +4 heat blowing the heat cap taking stress damage, roll on table exposed until we clear the status, lock on T1. T1= shoot at B 14+1-4 -> 6 roll on structure damage table for impaired to end of next turn, lock on B, then move back. A= start in swarm & burn 2, barrage main cqb +2d6-d6 2+4 miss, cannon +lock on +2d6-2d6 6 miss, move, free boost, eng check 14 clears the burn. T2= move, boost, shoot C 13+1 -> 6.

A d8/14 h1/6, B d2/14 h2/6 impaired, C d6/14 h3/6, D d0 h4/6(3/4) exposed, H d10/20 h4/8, T1 d0 h2/8, T2 d2/10 h3/8, Q1 d5/10 Q2=DEAD, Q3=DEAD, attacks=16, 4 hits

turn 8: A= extract & load up the agent, free boost, overcharge +3 heat to cannon at H 8-(4|6) miss. T2= blast C 1+1 miss -> 2, overcharge +1 heat re-blast 4+1 miss -> 2, lock on, move a little bit. C= move & free boost to T2, hammer 4+5 hit 8+1 reaction -> 5, 2 aux nexus +2d6-d6 3+4 miss & 3 miss, overcharge +2 heat, re-hammer 17+5 -> 7+1 -> dead. H= swarm does not recharge, move, full tech to "drone" A 6+2 who chooses immobile and impaired, then nexus C 8+2 -> 3 burn. B= start core protocol, move, free boost, 2x cqb... frak, I've been forgetting C's leadership and the tanks armors all this time, too damn much stuff to track... 2x cqb T1 +2d6-2d6 4 & 7-4 misses, hv cannon T1 using lock -2d6+2d6 16 -> 9+4-1 reaction/2 -> 6, overcharge +3 heat, re-cannon T1 18-6 -> 5+4-1 -> 8 and dead. Q1= moves up and barrages D 13+2-3 -> 2x2=4, 12+2-4 -> 2x2=4, 3+1-3 miss. D= move, free boost, barrage Q1 +d6-2d6 14-1 & 9-2 one hit for 5+1 and dead.

A d8/14 h4/6, B d2/14 h5/6, C d14/14 h3/6, D d8/14 h4/6(3/4) exposed, H d17/20 h4/8, T1=DEAD, T2=DEAD, Q1=DEAD Q2=DEAD, Q3=DEAD, attacks=18, 8 hits

turn 9: C= take burn damage, lock on H, move, free boost, cannon H +d6-d6 14 -> 6+1. H= swarm recharges, swarm & drone since they don't require LOS, 15+2 and A choose to be immobile and impaired. D= free boost, fire both cannon consuming lock on first +2d6-1d6 (18+6|4+2) -> 1+1 & 17 -> 1+1 and dead.

A d8/14 h4/6, B d2/14 h5/6, C d14/14 h3/6, D d8/14 h4/6(3/4) exposed, H=DEAD, T1=DEAD, T2=DEAD, Q1=DEAD Q2=DEAD, Q3=DEAD, attacks=5, 3 hits

Now if the tally I tried to keep is right... 56 attacks with 25 hits (46%), eight with +1d6 where it made a difference all of twice (not stat significant trials), 42 with -1d6 to -3d6 where it made a difference 13 times (31%), and 6 times of all shots the difference between a 8 & 10 defense number would have made a difference (9%). Of course I was pretty well rolling like shit a lot of the time too. Yeah, fewer inaccurate weaons would help but those main cannon were the best range I could reasonable get and that extra range made a real difference. You just have such crap choices at starting level here. On the plus side everyone got to attack this time, nobody went down (though slap D with two tech hits to trigger another overheat and you have a 1/3 chance of taking out that mech). I really have no idea how tech attacks that don't need LOS should work. That would seem to be like arcing shots and ignore cover, or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding the Hive mech's attacks. And again there's just a massive annoying fuckton of stuff to try to keep track of. I'm sure it's easier when you're a player with one mech, but DMing this just feels like combat would be a pain in the ass. The books stat blocks are not friendly to me and I didn't figure any way to make them nice for my use. Of course I didn't work too much at that either. Focus fire will completely hose PCs and they will be vulnerable to shooting OR tech attacks no matter what. Although tech attacks have a pretty serious limit with sensor range and most stuff having such short range sensors. Which actually fucks with trying to do a PC tech attack mech.

 

[SavAce]

Recently, Dream Pod 9 have been releasing Heavy Gear 1e and 2e in "Heavy Gear Revitalized" editions. Basically, someone was able to dig up the old original Mac PageMaker files and get them converted, so that we no longer have to deal with the dirty scans they were selling before. On the other hand, they are selling these clean new versions at a fairly hefty price. In mid-April though... Heavy Gear 4th edition is supposed to hit Kickstarter, so I'll be checking that out.

Heavy Gear 4th Edition Roleplaying Game Update! – Dream Pod 9

Welcome to Dream Pod 9

www.dp9.com

 

[gale_wolf]

I've got BRP Mecha but haven't ever tried it. Does anyone have any experience playing with Mecha using BRP?

 

[gruagach]

As to Lancer, I like the setting. A lot. I'm not a tactical combat skirmish game enjoyer - but the game play seems like it could be fun with the right group. However, I see a lot of potential for neat stories in the setting - but I'm noodling either dropping the mechs entirely and using something like M-Space, or using a lighter Mecha rules set.

Speaking of, has anyone subscribed to this thread played the Mecha Hack, mentioned upthread?

I think, like many potential mech games, you could get a lot of mileage out of re-imagining the visual aesthetics of the mechs to deliver different flavors of mech.

I'm also not that into "reality simulation" - so the short ranges of Lancer don't bug me too much either. I mean, if I'm being honest, the only "realistic" treatment of mechs in a modern warfare context would be that a squad of mechs would be what modern soldiers might refer to as a "target rich environment". Because, seriously, even a little thought into it tells me mechs are about the dumbest formfactor for an armored unit on a modern battlefield.

So then I start thinking of games that could do genre emulation well, like say Cortex Prime or FATE. The challenge there is that one won't find a lot of fiddly mechanical differentiation between say a turret mounted rail gun and shoulder mounted auto-cannons.

The whole thing's a conundrum. It's like trying to find the perfect game to emulate "swords & sorcery". Mecha may be too broad a category for a single game.

 

[yosemitemike]

If such a thing exists, I haven't found it yet. I have a bunch of mecha rpgs that are fine and work fine. Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, Mechasys, Mekton Zeta, That Palladium Robotech one, BESM mecha and several others. There are about a million more that I know nothing about though so such a thing may be out there somewhere.

 

[Torque2100]

I've got BRP Mecha but haven't ever tried it. Does anyone have any experience playing with Mecha using BRP?

View attachment 61687

I looked into this. I want this product but it's no longer on DTRPG.
:,(

 

[TristramEvans]

Ive tried for a while to articulate in my mind what the 'perfect' mech rpg would entail, and I think tonight I stumbled on one part of that when I came across this picture from a Battletech videogame:



that there pushes my one of my geek buttons - I want the equivalent in my RPG experience. I want to feel like I'm piloting a walking tank/articulated starship, looking at digital readouts of my vehicle's capabilities and statuses, and I accept, even want, the added crunch that might entail if the character sheet invokes that feeling. This is one reason i like the BattleTech mechsheets:



even tho mostly these days I prefer the faster-paced play of Alpha Strike



There was a Star Trek game in the 80s that had a full on deck/ display console for each player and I was enamoured of that.

Of course, there are certain types/genres of mech that this doesn't work for, such as the biomechs of Evangelion or psyche-piloted mechs as per Gurren Lagann. It probably wouldn't be appropriate for something like Voltron either.

So ideally in a system it would be an optional system, advanced rules that a group can integrate with a fast, streamlined core system. My ideal crunch level would be somewhere inbetween alpha strike and BT (or BESM and Mekton Zeta in RPG terms).

Silhouette I thought had a lot of potential. Very modular system with a solid, robust yet simple core.

But I'd want a hybrid. Dice pools feel right for fast actions, unloading a bunch of tiny missiles or spraying laserfire, etc, But percentage feels right for systems/shields statuses, technical capabilities and operational actions.

 

[Jacob Rodgers]

Just skimmed the thread, but I've recently returned to Battletech after taking a couple of decades off, and gotten the mecha bug again.

At various points, doing mecha in 5e (fantasy or sci-fi) has been on the table. And my core idea has been to make it be as swapping subclasses: you have one subclass out of the suit, and one in. You temp HP, new AC, new attack actions, etc. And disadvantage on Stealth, Acrobatics, DEX saving throws, etc.

At least one project is still nominally on the back-burner, behind all the other pots. So maybe one day...

 

[Gabriel]

I just dug out my old copy of Battletech. I don't know from what year it is from but it says FASA copyright 1985, and it has MAD-3R Marauder mech in it, which mysteriously vanished from at least some later editions, probably due to copyright issues would be my guess. Man, Marauder rox!!

Every Marauder I ever played in a game of Battletech died the same way. First action of the game, it would suffer a headshot from a Gauss Cannon, AC20, or Clan ER PPC. This happened in probably over half a dozen games. Oh, you're shooting at my Marauder? Of course, it's a head hit.

 

[DornKratz]

I'm keeping tabs on Salvage Union myself. It's shaping up to be a straightforward system -- roll a single, unmodified d20 for a range of results -- but it has the kind of salvage and repair gameplay loop that made Battletech so addictive.

 

[chuckdee]

I'm keeping tabs on Salvage Union myself. It's shaping up to be a straightforward system -- roll a single, unmodified d20 for a range of results -- but it has the kind of salvage and repair gameplay loop that made Battletech so addictive.

It looks interesting - that unmodified die roll is what trips me up. And I didn't find a lot of the systems straightforward other than that core mechanic.



25% chance on every roll of failure with no modifiers due to anything seems a bit harsh.

 

[DornKratz]

Just wondering, how important do you all find these things for a satisfying crunch?

1. hexes/squares and unit facing
2. armor as health and structural damage
3. hit locations and part destruction
4. heat management
5. ammunition tracking
6. non-humanoid mecha and other unit types
7. pilot health and morale
8. extensive weapon catalog
9. terrain and environmental effects

 

[Gabriel]

Just wondering, how important do you all find these things for a satisfying crunch?

1. hexes/squares and unit facing
2. armor as health and structural damage
3. hit locations and part destruction
4. heat management
5. ammunition tracking
6. non-humanoid mecha and other unit types
7. pilot health and morale
8. extensive weapon catalog
9. terrain and environmental effects

1. Really only important if you're focusing on tactical combat combined with full squad tactics. Has a tendency to skew things towards a wargame style, but not necessarily.

2. This one strongly depends on the type of mecha. It's more important with mecha which are supposed to be pounded on for hours before being disabled. So it's mostly a western style stompy mecha thing.

3. I've found over the years that this element is irritating to deal with in play, and I don't find it overly fun.

4. Is there anything other than Battletech where this is an element of mecha combat? I have never seen it come up anywhere else.

5. Over the years I am less and less interested in bean counting, and I was never much a fan of it in the first place.

6. There should certainly be the provision for such things. Giant mechs attack tanks and planes. Giant mechs can be just flying torsos with arms, centaurs, giant squids. It all depends on the theme of the world.

7. In anime the morale and emotions of the pilot are often more important than other factors. I'd say the problem in nearly all older mecha RPGs is the pilot is a relatively non-important component of the mecha, whereas in the anime source material the mecha is a projection of the character.

8. It is nice to have weapon and attack options. It gets old just spamming the same old attack. So yes, there absolutely need to be more options than just "I fire my gun again."

9. Absolutely critical. These are the things that make the battles interesting.

 

[TristramEvans]

Just wondering, how important do you all find these things for a satisfying crunch?

1. hexes/squares and unit facing

Not important

2. armor as health and structural damage

Modelling armour/structural damage is important , don't know what 'armour as health" entails

3. hit locations and part destruction

Important

4. heat management

Only applies to BattleTech

5. ammunition tracking

Not overly important but shouldn't be handwaved

6. non-humanoid mecha and other unit types

If they exist in the setting

7. pilot health and morale

Important

8. extensive weapon catalog

Important

9. terrain and environmental effects

Important

 

[chuckdee]

Only applies to BattleTech

I've seen it elsewhere, and think it can be an important factor, or some sort of power management.

 

[chuckdee]

4. Is there anything other than Battletech where this is an element of mecha combat? I have never seen it come up anywhere else.

I know I've seen it elsewhere. Just offhand, I know Salvage Union has it.

 

[DornKratz]

Is there anything other than Battletech where this is an element of mecha combat? I have never seen it come up anywhere else.

It really doesn't come up much in fiction, but it's fairly common in RPG. The Mecha Hack uses a reactor die. Roll a 1 or 2, and the die degrades. Degrade a d4, and the mecha overheats and you essentially lose a turn. Lancer also has some heat management; if it goes too high, you start making Engineering checks to avoid complications.

don't know what 'armour as health" entails

There are three main ways to do armor: (1) deflection, like D&D's Armor Class; (2) damage reduction, like Cairn, where it subtracts (and potentially negates) incoming damage; (3) an extra pool of hit points that degrades to zero before you start taking 'health' damage and going down the death spiral. Battletech makes me associate mecha with number 3, but I may be in the minority here.

 

[TristramEvans]

I've seen it elsewhere, and think it can be an important factor, or some sort of power management.

I read the question as 'what's important for a mecha game to have"?

 

[TristramEvans]

There are three main ways to do armor: (1) deflection, like D&D's Armor Class; (2) damage reduction, like Cairn, where it subtracts (and potentially negates) incoming damage; (3) an extra pool of hit points that degrades to zero before you start taking 'health' damage and going down the death spiral. Battletech makes me associate mecha with number 3, but I may be in the minority here.

I don't care for option 1, don't mind 2 or 3

 

[Simlasa]

I don't think I know enough about mecha to be picky... mostly I want cool designs, more Robotech (bell bottom pants!) than Battletech (too boxy!)

I've got the BRP Mecha book, but it's not aimed at the gearhead crowd. It has stuff for the more 'realistic' mechs, but I think its intended thrust is the godmecha like Mazinger and such. The really huge guys that operate as superheroic individuals.
A line in the introduction of BRP Mecha reads, "If you find the Mecha of the classic anime series unrealistic, and prefer an approach where a 'Mech is a two-legged weapon platform, then maybe this game is not for you."
It's got rules for emulating those sorts of anime stories, but I've never used them in a game. The last time I had a mech in a BRP game I used the stats for a Tyrannosaur with some added powers from the BGB.

I've also got Mekton (one of them, not sure which) but IIRC it was chunky on the rules.
Also, Akashic Titan for DCC... though the mechs in that are more like ancient spaceships, with small crews inside.
I recently jumped in on the Kickstarter for Aether Nexus, but it's much more of a fantasy/Escaflowne thing, based on the Mecha Hack which is based on the Black Hack (whatever that is).

 

[Telok]

3. hit locations and part destruction
- Should exist in some form but doesn't need to be extreme. Without it everything is just formless hit point blobs.

6. non-humanoid mecha and other unit types
- Yes. If the only real difference between infantry, tanks, planes, boats, and mecha is how fast they move across terrain then you're back to formless blobs.

7. pilot health and morale
- Highly desirable. Also, crewed vehicles and infantry units probably need to be differentiated from mecha in this regard.

8. extensive weapon catalog
- Define "extensive"? A game with 10 real choices is better than one with 50 where 40 are useless, traps, or just minor variations on each other. I'd rate it on how much variety you see in actual play. If there is one main weapon that's practically ubiquitous across a particular section of the game (low levels, light mechs, artillery role, etc.) there's an issue.

9. terrain and environmental effects
- Different effects are important. If your only three terrain & environment effects are "half speed", "-3 to hit", and "can't target" then it's probably too few unless the game is super zoomed out to something like mass battles or very abstract zones & one-roll resolution levels of play. Likewise there are potential issues with a mecha's ability or inability to interact with terrain. Examples; firing flamethrowers into forests or wooden buildings has no effect other than damaging mechs, there's no difference to anything underwater vs above water or across the air/water interface.

 

[Malckuss]

It really doesn't come up much in fiction, but it's fairly common in RPG. The Mecha Hack uses a reactor die. Roll a 1 or 2, and the die degrades. Degrade a d4, and the mecha overheats and you essentially lose a turn. Lancer also has some heat management; if it goes too high, you start making Engineering checks to avoid complications.

There are three main ways to do armor: (1) deflection, like D&D's Armor Class; (2) damage reduction, like Cairn, where it subtracts (and potentially negates) incoming damage; (3) an extra pool of hit points that degrades to zero before you start taking 'health' damage and going down the death spiral. Battletech makes me associate mecha with number 3, but I may be in the minority here.

I was also going to point out Lancer does heat. I seem to recall Armor Astir also has some form of resource management.

Just wondering, how important do you all find these things for a satisfying crunch?

1. hexes/squares and unit facing
2. armor as health and structural damage
3. hit locations and part destruction
4. heat management
5. ammunition tracking
6. non-humanoid mecha and other unit types
7. pilot health and morale
8. extensive weapon catalog
9. terrain and environmental effects

1. hexes/squares and unit facing - position and facing are mildly important, but I don't want any kind of grid. What I envision is a hybrid of Chris Perrin's Mecha and Warbirds: a large hex or octagon with smaller hexes imbedded, each representing a range band. The center hex is dueling range, the second ring is close quarters, the third ring is distant, and the final ring is remote, or out of combat range. Mecha can move between range bands and positioning and facing still matter, but it takes up less table space and would be far less time intensive.
2. armor as health and structural damage - armor and structural integrity are important. I would combine 2 & 3. I would use a simpler version of Battletech, similar to Battletech Destiny. To this basic chassis, I would apend a version of system damage as seen in CthulhuTech 1E where where players select which systems are affected, or alternatively, where sensitive systems are located.
3. hit locations and part destruction - see 2.
4. heat management - I want less heat management and more resource management. We see in media where mecha and powered armor are involved rerouting power to various systems for a variety of reasons. Bleeding excess heat off, or venting gases that have built up when systems are damaged. You could even further dail into elective bits by accepting complications like heat build up to deflect system damage.
5. ammunition tracking - I wouldn't care to track every piece of ammo. That sucks. It's too fiddly, too much like a wargame. I would rather track units, similar to Fragged Empire 2E, where it depends on the weapon type. So spending a unit for a single-shot gun lasts one battle, or one fully-automatic salvo, a flight of rockets, or a single HE missile or grenade.
6. non-humanoid mecha and other unit types - the best example I can think of in this regard is Mekton Zeta. A good mecha rule set is a vehicle rule set. I would simplify and streamline the process and add vehicle categories to make building something easier.
7. pilot health and morale - I feel like this is important, but also could be fiddly. If a pilot gets hurt inside their mech, they are generally dead due to scale. I do feel morale is important. I would probably use some narrative mechanics here, similar to Fate Core or Cortex Prime. I also want to see pilots as more than just a plug in interface for a vehicle. I prefer the treatment they get in Battle Century G Remastered and Lancer, more fleshed out, equally important as their mech.
8. extensive weapon catalog - noping out right here. I do not desire an extensive list of weapons, mostly for reasons others have elucidated. I want an extensive list of weapons types and ways to modify them, with a few examples for each type to see the method in action and for folks whom would rather simply choose. EDIT: I would agree with another poster in that a variety of maneuvers is desirable, not simply more dakka.
9. terrain and environmental effects - while these are important, I would like to see smaller package of rules instead of an exhausted list of terrain.

That's my wishlist. I basically want a version of Mekton Zeta Plus in a smaller, tighter package with narrative elements that have mechanical heft.

EDIT: Cleaned up language due to OCD and added an observation regarding MOAR GUNZ!

 

[Silverlion]

That's my wishlist. I basically want a version of Mekton Zeta Plus in a smaller, tighter package with narrative elements that have mechanical heft.

Seriously, I'm with you here, mostly.

 

[chuckdee]

I read the question as 'what's important for a mecha game to have"?

So your "Only for Battletech" is saying that it's only important if you're playing Battletech?

 

[TristramEvans]

So your "Only for Battletech" is saying that it's only important if you're playing Battletech?

yes, it's setting-specific, not a universal aspect of Mecha fiction

 

[Chris24601]

Mechwarrior Destiny combined with some of Death From Above Wargaming’s “Battletech Destiny” house rules* (most notably the Torso armor calculations and mechanics for more advanced gear that MWD mostly leaves to fluff) hits my sweetspot for a Mech-based campaign.

The MWDestiny rules are basically a revamp of the FASA Legionnaire rpg for Renegade Legion and provide a gameplay feel that’s much closer to being one of the novel protagonists with its own streamlined Mech/Vehicle combat rules (instead of previous editions’ tendencies to default to standard Battletech for Mech-scale combat complete with the 1-in-36 per hit (and mechs can get hit a lot) of instant death by headshot).

Said combat also has options for theatre of the mind combat.

A word of clarification; while it uses a lot story-game sounding terms (ex. you take a “narration” instead of a “turn”) their actual use in the mechanics is bog standard ttrpg (a “narration” functions exactly like a turn with a finite number of actions you’re able to take and checks to roll to see if you succeed). This is basically my warning that storygamers will likely be disappointed and ttrpg players shouldn’t let the nomenclature blind them to the underlying mechanics.

I know some people punched out of Battletech early, but in the “present day” of the setting there’s everything from advanced infantry (including combat cyborgs), battle armor (0.5-2 tons; humanoid or quad, flight and submersible options), protomechs (2-10 tons; also humanoid or quad), standard mechs (10-100 tons; biped, arms or armless, quads and tripods) and superheavy mechs (100+ tons; also biped, arms or armless, quads and tripods), and all manner of vehicles (from bikes and jet packs to mobile ground bases, battleships and spacecraft in the hundred kiloton range).

Special equipment includes improved jump jets (and vehicle jump jets), glide wings (Protomechs can even use a WiGE style flight system), submersible equipment, transforming Land-Air Mechs (i.e. Macross Valkyries) and Tank-Quad Mechs, a wide array of melee weapons (and Mech scale tasers), specialized ammunition for ballistic and missile weapons, advanced armors, sensors, torso-mounted cockpits, physical shields and even limited energy shields, etc.

Plus whole catalogues of units for both heroes and villains to use and a very well established human-only scifi universe.

Basically, Battletech has come a long way where it likely was when you last looked at it.

So, if you don’t want all the complexities of Mech construction like Mekton Zeta Plus, but do want a vast array of options to pull from (with the option to build a custom unit if needed) it’s reasonably possible to adapt into other Mecha-based universes.

If that’s for you, you might want to check it out.

* https://firebasestorage.googleapis....ia&token=c555a37c-01d2-4bff-b6b4-f2a8cb38742f

 

[Hairless Bear]

Mechwarrior Destiny combined with some of Death From Above Wargaming’s “Battletech Destiny” house rules* (most notably the Torso armor calculations and mechanics for more advanced gear that MWD mostly leaves to fluff) hits my sweetspot for a Mech-based campaign.

The MWDestiny rules are basically a revamp of the FASA Legionnaire rpg for Renegade Legion and provide a gameplay feel that’s much closer to being one of the novel protagonists with its own streamlined Mech/Vehicle combat rules (instead of previous editions’ tendencies to default to standard Battletech for Mech-scale combat complete with the 1-in-36 per hit (and mechs can get hit a lot) of instant death by headshot).

Said combat also has options for theatre of the mind combat.

A word of clarification; while it uses a lot story-game sounding terms (ex. you take a “narration” instead of a “turn”) their actual use in the mechanics is bog standard ttrpg (a “narration” functions exactly like a turn with a finite number of actions you’re able to take and checks to roll to see if you succeed). This is basically my warning that storygamers will likely be disappointed and ttrpg players shouldn’t let the nomenclature blind them to the underlying mechanics.

I know some people punched out of Battletech early, but in the “present day” of the setting there’s everything from advanced infantry (including combat cyborgs), battle armor (0.5-2 tons; humanoid or quad, flight and submersible options), protomechs (2-10 tons; also humanoid or quad), standard mechs (10-100 tons; biped, arms or armless, quads and tripods) and superheavy mechs (100+ tons; also biped, arms or armless, quads and tripods), and all manner of vehicles (from bikes and jet packs to mobile ground bases, battleships and spacecraft in the hundred kiloton range).

Special equipment includes improved jump jets (and vehicle jump jets), glide wings (Protomechs can even use a WiGE style flight system), submersible equipment, transforming Land-Air Mechs (i.e. Macross Valkyries) and Tank-Quad Mechs, a wide array of melee weapons (and Mech scale tasers), specialized ammunition for ballistic and missile weapons, advanced armors, sensors, torso-mounted cockpits, physical shields and even limited energy shields, etc.

Plus whole catalogues of units for both heroes and villains to use and a very well established human-only scifi universe.

Basically, Battletech has come a long way where it likely was when you last looked at it.

So, if you don’t want all the complexities of Mech construction like Mekton Zeta Plus, but do want a vast array of options to pull from (with the option to build a custom unit if needed) it’s reasonably possible to adapt into other Mecha-based universes.

If that’s for you, you might want to check it out.

* https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/dfa-wargaming.appspot.com/o/public_files/DFA Destiny Rules Reference v4.2.pdf?alt=media&token=c555a37c-01d2-4bff-b6b4-f2a8cb38742f

As Mechwarrior: Destiny has been delivered to me yesterday morning, I appreciate the link, and I'm glad someone likes it. Hopefully I will too.

 

[Brander]

Just wondering, how important do you all find these things for a satisfying crunch?

1. hexes/squares and unit facing
2. armor as health and structural damage
3. hit locations and part destruction
4. heat management
5. ammunition tracking
6. non-humanoid mecha and other unit types
7. pilot health and morale
8. extensive weapon catalog
9. terrain and environmental effects

1) Optional but useful for competitive games
2) I like armor as armor.... either stopping damage or reducing it (AC or DR or both) Despite decades of Battletech I don't particularly like ablative armor. I am OK though with "hit points" for overall structural capacity.
3) Part destruction yes, but I'm ok if it's just the result of a crit and not generally targeting hit locations (I'm fine if the setting allows for hit locations, but that then begs the question of "why not always target the cockpit or control center"). I am OK with individual health and armor for locations, but again, need a reason everyone doesn't just target the weaknesses.
4) Battletech was worse for including this, it's a terrible gamey mechanic that is best left out. Resource management is way better (replace coolant charges between battles or something, everything has limited shots, if only for maintenance reasons).
5) Required, see resource management above. Doesn't need to be during the game except for limited ammo weapons like mecha-bazookas and the like. It's ok to expect the mecha to have enough ammo to fight the current battle unless part of the battle is limited supplies. Limited supplies should be a campaign level consideration most of the time
6) Required, crab and spider mecha (and the like) are awesome.
7) Both required but I'm fine with pilot health being "able to pilot" and "unable to pilot" with maybe "can or can't spot for others if wounded" and worry about the rest of the details after. Pilot morale is as important as the rest of the mecha. Most battles should be determined by who retreats, not who wipes out the enemy every time. I ran a lot of Mechwarrior for groups where the pilots were critical.
8) Preferred as long as they are legitimately useful and materially different, but can just be enough categories. "Medium Laser" is fine, as long as there are small and large (and maybe very small and very large) versions. Should be named on each mech even if not mechanically different (Battletech got this part right overall)
9) Terrain is critical in order to give reasons to not just take "best" mech for an open field (though money/availability can work too). Environmental effects need to make sense. It's irrelevant if it's a desert or arctic if the unit can function in space, though underwater can still matter.
10) I loved Battletech despite it's sins (though the Clans ruined the game and the setting, so pre-3049 only Battletech for roleplaying, but I'll happily destroy clan players in a wargame (and playfully mock them for poor taste :-) )), I loved Mekton but no one else was into it. Heavy Gear was an awesome setting, I liked the system, but never found opponents, so mostly liked it in theory. 40K Titans are ridiculous and awesome, but I somehow never got into Epic et al, even though I'm nuts about the 40K settings (yes plural (Rogue Trader is not current 40K but I like both), but I hate GW the company (they treat their customers and fans like dirt)). Mecha Hack looks fun but haven't tried it. CAV was fun, but I only ever had one other person to play it with and we ended up across the country from one another. Lancer has great art, but the system and setting don't appeal to me at all. Battle Century G looks interesting, but haven't done more than glance at it. I loved BESM 2E for mecha, 3E+ haven't grabbed me. Savage Worlds can handle mecha (like Savage Rifts) but I wouldn't use it for a mecha focused game without a fair bit of additional house rules. Gurps Vehicles was absurdly terrible even though David Pulver rocked it out amazingly with his work in BESM. I'm probably forgetting at least a couple I might have glanced at and maybe even one or two I've tried, but since this question wasn't actually asked, I guess I'll leave it at what I can recall.

 

[Gabriel]

The MWDestiny rules are basically a revamp of the FASA Legionnaire rpg for Renegade Legion

I think you're going to have to elaborate on that one, because I have both and don't see much similarity beyond militaryish characters with a strong vehicle focus. Destiny is 2d6+attribute+skill roll high. Legionnaire is multiple d10 based on difficulty roll under attribute + skill. Legionnaire has an alternate single die roll low resolution method which mimics the Renegade Legion board game hit rolls which is used exclusively for combat, while Destiny uses its regular die mechanic for combat. Both feature vehicle combat to stand in for their board games. Destiny more or less scales down the numbers and converts the boardgame procedure to opposed roll skill contests. Legionnaire goes for a sort of abstract resolution method. Legionnaire is also more of a narrow skill sort of game (it was made right at the start of the 90s).

I see Destiny as using 1st and 2nd edition Mechwarrior as inpiration, but mostly wiping the slate clean to create a traditional (can I use that word without being banned?) sort of game with some heavy storygame trappings which can be taken or left as desired.

 

[Brander]

...

The MWDestiny rules are basically a revamp of the FASA Legionnaire rpg for Renegade Legion and provide a gameplay feel that’s much closer to being one of the novel protagonists with its own streamlined Mech/Vehicle combat rules (instead of previous editions’ tendencies to default to standard Battletech for Mech-scale combat complete with the 1-in-36 per hit (and mechs can get hit a lot) of instant death by headshot).
...

I played Renegade Legion Interceptor and Centurion and I looked at a couple versions of those modified for Battletech, which were lots of fun, for variations of fun that involve a lot of detail. Thanks for the link, I do plan to look at it, I'm not recalling much of Legionnaire.

The 1 in 36 chance of head hit is a feature not a bug It's also only insta-kill with one weapon originally and yet another reason they ruined the game by adding Clans (as they added Clans*). Assuming you didn't have one of the few designs with less than full head armor (and yes, the whole "heads can have more armor" thing was silly too, unfortunately Battletech was designed for some goofy version of "balance" first. And yet I still loved it. I blame my youth and now nostalgia)

I've long thought Traveller would work best for the RPG aspects of Battletech, it being 2d6 based as well. Even the skill system works if you just use the skill level as a modifier on piloting from a base (something like 6 minus skill level for piloting, and 5 minus skill level for gunnery (one level of skill in Traveller being a big deal)). I nonetheless ran a LOT of Mechwarrior 2nd edition over the years, mostly set in Solaris and using the extra-detailed rules released for that.

*The clans would have worked as a bunch of LOWER tech invaders (have them end up at a common misjump spot and they finally nab enough ships to come back in force). The higher tech thing was silly, they took 1/1,000,000,000 (at best) of the inner spheres scientists and somehow managed to out-tech the inner sphere AFTER they had yet another internal war amongst themselves AND manifested into a warrior based society. They should have shown up with IC engine mechs using crappy autocannons and rockets, not beyond Star League tech. They have a space ork society somehow magically ultra-tech. And, YES I am a salty old grognard about Battletech.

Basically, Battletech has come a long way where it likely was when you last looked at it.

...

As noted in my previous reply, I consider anything post 3049 complete heresy. So that's actually NOT a selling point to me