chuckdee

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Imagine NOT being entitled to what you paid for. Entertainment IS NOT FREE. Nor is the money that most people have, it's EARNED through their jobs.
You paid for a seat to a movie. You could choose not to- some you like and some you don't. Disney paid much money to Lucas for something he created. Whether they make what you want to see or not is their choice. Entitlement is thinking that their choices should be the ones that you'd want them to make.
 

PolarBlues

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Millenials are shabby but unique generation of cynical smuggling ships and Gen X-wings are the pristine but mass produced ships of plucky yet naive rebels? I feel like there's a joke here.

I feel you just made that joke. Of course if you are a Boomer, you fall under Battlestar Galactica lore... or Bubblegun Crisis.
 

TristramEvans

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This attitude blows my mind.

Imagine NOT being entitled to what you paid for. Entertainment IS NOT FREE. Nor is the money that most people have, it's EARNED through their jobs.

It's like going to a famous, reputable steakhouse, plunking down fifty bucks for their signature steak meal with the works, and all you get is a week old salad with a light slathering of steak sauce and expected to still pay that $50 with tax.

I don't know of anyone who would accept that. And yes, this is the SAME thing, whether it's Star Wars, Star Trek, Pixar, Warner/DC, MCU... Whatever, if your going to put out content based on something that people have liked before don't just pump out crap and expect people accept it because it's got a label on it.

These are MULTI-BILLION dollar corporations with CEOs that have been giving themselves raises and screwing over their employees (The stories you can find in BUSINESS trade papers about how so-and-so just voted to give themselves a raise, while having to let go hundreds of people are EVERYWHERE), if they can't give us what we PAY for, then screw it. I'm going to take my money elsewhere.

And NOBODY should feel guilty about doing that, no matter how many names these major corporations want to call us.

Chris, I don’t think you understand what I mean by entitled. I pay lots of money for Star Wars stuff. I enjoy it. It doesn’t mean I’m entitled to it. I think Disney panders too much to my cynical age group and needs to move on.


I think you are both right, and both missing the forest for trees.

I think what is wrong about the situation is Disney owning another piece of our culture (that they had no hand in creating).
 

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I wonder what we'd be seeing if the length of copyright was 30 or 40 years instead of whatever it is.

Everyone would be free to do whatever they want with Star Wars.

But is that what most fans would want? The whole idea of canon would become completely untenable.
 

TristramEvans

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I wonder what we'd be seeing if the length of copyright was 30 or 40 years instead of whatever it is.

Everyone would be free to do whatever they want with Star Wars.

But is that what most fans would want? The whole idea of canon would become completely untenable.

I'd suggest "personal cannon" is already a well-regarded concept and at this point one would find very little value in allowing Disney to dictate cannon anyways.
 

Rich H

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I think some people make the mistake of thinking others criticising are the same as being entitled. Criticism and entitlement aren't the same thing. Not calling out anyone here, specifically, over that but its definitely a thing.
 

Endless Flight

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It’s like the Kenobi show. Most Gen-Xers hate the prequels but they always usually say “but I liked Ewan McGregor as Kenobi”. Disney did not make the Kenobi show for Millennials. They made it for the aging Gen-X fan fan base who they are trying to squeeze every last drop of nostalgia from. Honestly the pandering started with The Force Awakens and has never left. The Rise of Skywalker doubled down on it and here we are.
 

Rich H

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It’s like the Kenobi show. Most Gen-Xers hate the prequels but they always usually say “but I liked Ewan McGregor as Kenobi”. Disney did not make the Kenobi show for Millennials. They made it for the aging Gen-X fan fan base who they are trying to squeeze every last drop of nostalgia from. Honestly the pandering started with The Force Awakens and has never left. The Rise of Skywalker doubled down on it and here we are.

... We're here because of bad writing not because of any pandering. Look at episode 5 of Kenobi and the two transport issue; the characters in the underground resistance would have known they had two transports, and it's highly likely Kenobi would have seen the second one, and yet their discussions were around just having one transport and needing to get the people off on it before being able to take Leia back to Alderaan. It's fucking awful storytelling as it was completely central to them hanging around and delaying their escape.
 

Endless Flight

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... We're here because of bad writing not because of any pandering. Look at episode 5 of Kenobi and the two transport issue; the characters in the underground resistance would have known they had two transports, and it's highly likely Kenobi would have seen the second one, and yet their discussions were around just having one transport and needing to get the people off on it before being able to take Leia back to Alderaan. It's fucking awful storytelling as it was completely central to them hanging around and delaying their escape.
That's looking at the small picture. I want Disney to make the galaxy bigger. Not keep rehashing stories with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader and Boba Fett. Take on the Old Republic. Or move the galaxy forward a thousand years! Stop staying in the thirty year window. When George Lucas saw The Force Awakens, he even said "there's nothing new".
 

Rich H

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That's looking at the small picture. I want Disney to make the galaxy bigger. Not keep rehashing stories with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader and Boba Fett. Take on the Old Republic. Or move the galaxy forward a thousand years! Stop staying in the thirty year window. When George Lucas saw The Force Awakens, he even said "there's nothing new".

I'm critiquing the writing which I don't think remotely qualifies as looking at the small picture, I'd suggest if anyone is doing that then its you by focussing purely on the alleged pandering. I'm critical because the writing is trash (in general) and writing in the 'bigger galaxy' won't address this, it'll still be gash - assuming the same team of people are used and there's nothing to suggest otherwise.
 
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Endless Flight

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I'm critiquing the writing which I don't think remotely qualifies as looking at the small picture, I'd suggest if anyone is doing that then its you by focussing purely on the alleged pandering. I'm critical because the writing is trash (in general) and writing in the 'bigger galaxy' won't address this, it'll still be gash - assuming the same team of people are used and there's nothing to suggest otherwise.
We aren't going to agree on that across the board. I think the writing has been good enough for most of the shows. Some Disney shows have been better written than others. The animated shows have been very good. The last season of The Clone Wars is some of the best Star Wars to ever be made. Disney has a decent record across all media.
 

TristramEvans

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It’s like the Kenobi show. Most Gen-Xers hate the prequels but they always usually say “but I liked Ewan McGregor as Kenobi”. Disney did not make the Kenobi show for Millennials. They made it for the aging Gen-X fan fan base who they are trying to squeeze every last drop of nostalgia from. Honestly the pandering started with The Force Awakens and has never left. The Rise of Skywalker doubled down on it and here we are.

I mean, if it's good, it doesn't matter who the target demogrphic is, to me.

That said, I havent seen the Obi show yet, but from what I understand it's all about referencing the prequels and the Clone Wars cartoon show, which doesn't sound like it's aimed at Gen X ...
 

chuckdee

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I think some people make the mistake of thinking others criticising are the same as being entitled. Criticism and entitlement aren't the same thing. Not calling out anyone here, specifically, over that but its definitely a thing.
Criticism is fine... but there's been a mix of both in the thread.
 

TristramEvans

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That's looking at the small picture. I want Disney to make the galaxy bigger. Not keep rehashing stories with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader and Boba Fett. Take on the Old Republic. Or move the galaxy forward a thousand years! Stop staying in the thirty year window. When George Lucas saw The Force Awakens, he even said "there's nothing new".

Personally, if I was put in charge of a new trilogy, I'd do a Droid rebellion.
 

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I'm enjoying Obiwan a damn sight more than I did the Book of Boba Fett. Wether its aimed at Gen X, Y or Z I'll leave to others to decide but I sure can empathise with the middle aged Jedi in Star Wars noir.
Its like someone took the failed jedi concept from WEG that I never got to play and made a series about him.
 

TristramEvans

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Book of Boba Fat wasn't horrible, it was just so mediocre that I found it demoralizing after the Mandalorian. The premise seemed so promising too, with the tagline "Every planet has an Underworld...", I was expecting, I dunno, the Star Wars equivalent of the Godfather or something

Instead we got Dances with Tusken Raiders meets a half-assed High Noon, with a break in the middle for The Mando show
 

TristramEvans

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The best episodes of the BOBF were the Mandalorian episodes.

I thought that at first, but upon reflection my thoughts were: 1) I'd rather be watchig a new season of the Mandalorian and 2) oh fuck, they're going to cop out and completely undo the ending of the Mando - yeah, yeah, fuck, they did it...
 

Endless Flight

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I mean, if it's good, it doesn't matter who the target demogrphic is, to me.

That said, I havent seen the Obi show yet, but from what I understand it's all about referencing the prequels and the Clone Wars cartoon show, which doesn't sound like it's aimed at Gen X ...
It really doesn’t though. He’s on a mission to rescue an OT character, little miss Leia. Disney has to keep the show about the OT and throw a crumb at younger fans who gush over Hayden Christensen by throwing it a half-hearted flashback.
 

Rich H

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... Was it just me that thought that Anakin in the flashback fight actually looked older than Obi-Wan in it? I thought that was really weird.
 

Chris Brady

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Chris, I don’t think you understand what I mean by entitled. I pay lots of money for Star Wars stuff. I enjoy it. It doesn’t mean I’m entitled to it. I think Disney panders too much to my cynical age group and needs to move on.
No they don't. Have you actually WATCHED any of the movies?

The complaints about the Book of Blah-Blah-Blah and The Leia and Reva show are BECAUSE they're NOT pandering to the original fans!

Here's what the consensus that I've been able to find, now this is anecdotal as there are no actual scientific de rigor to be found here, but...

The original fans wanted the OT trio on screen together one last time. Sure, maybe have them retire and hand over the reins to new heroes, but at least one movie where Han, Luke and Leia were together one last time for one scene. Just one. Now a sadly physical impossibility.

The original fans wanted the characters to be respected, not turned into a deadbeat, failed revolutionary and attempted murderer. They wanted the established MOVIE lore to be respected. And by that I mean the characters. Most don't really care about the Holdo Maneuver and it's implications.

The original fans wanted to see a badass Boba Fett, not Gentle Grampy Crimelord. In fact, even Temura Morrison has voiced complaints on how Boba Fett takes his helmet off too often. And the Power Ranger Vespa Squad is best left unmentioned.

The original fans... Well, they didn't really want an Obi-Want show to begin with, because the alleged whole point of him being on Tattooine was to babysit Luke and keep him out of the hands of Darth Vader. Which makes for a boring show. Instead we got a 7 year old playing an overly precocious 10 year old who knows too much about everything dragging an old man along her adventures, while he neglects his real duties.

Not one thing that Disney Star Wars has done has actually pandered to the original fans, except any time they bring creepy de-aged Luke Skywalker into it.
 

TristramEvans

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I forget, does Leia mention how she knew Obi Wan to ask for his help in the OT? I seem to recall some throwaway line like "you helped my father such and such...", but it has been - well, since the Special Editions dropped in theatres
 

Endless Flight

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I forget, does Leia mention how she knew Obi Wan to ask for his help in the OT? I seem to recall some throwaway line like "you helped my father such and such...", but it has been - well, since the Special Editions dropped in theatres
She didn’t know Obi-Wan except from what her adopted father Bail told her. “Years ago you served my father during the Clone Wars…”. She wouldn’t have to tell him that going by this latest show. She could just say “remember me????”.
 

TristramEvans

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She didn’t know Obi-Wan except from what her adopted father Bail told her. “Years ago you served my father during the Clone Wars…”. She wouldn’t have to tell him that going by this latest show. She could just say “remember me????”.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering
 

TristramEvans

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No they don't. Have you actually WATCHED any of the movies?

The complaints about the Book of Blah-Blah-Blah and The Leia and Reva show are BECAUSE they're NOT pandering to the original fans!

Here's what the consensus that I've been able to find, now this is anecdotal as there are no actual scientific de rigor to be found here, but...

The original fans wanted the OT trio on screen together one last time. Sure, maybe have them retire and hand over the reins to new heroes, but at least one movie where Han, Luke and Leia were together one last time for one scene. Just one. Now a sadly physical impossibility.

The original fans wanted the characters to be respected, not turned into a deadbeat, failed revolutionary and attempted murderer. They wanted the established MOVIE lore to be respected. And by that I mean the characters. Most don't really care about the Holdo Maneuver and it's implications.

The original fans wanted to see a badass Boba Fett, not Gentle Grampy Crimelord. In fact, even Temura Morrison has voiced complaints on how Boba Fett takes his helmet off too often. And the Power Ranger Vespa Squad is best left unmentioned.

The original fans... Well, they didn't really want an Obi-Want show to begin with, because the alleged whole point of him being on Tattooine was to babysit Luke and keep him out of the hands of Darth Vader. Which makes for a boring show. Instead we got a 7 year old playing an overly precocious 10 year old who knows too much about everything dragging an old man along her adventures, while he neglects his real duties.

Not one thing that Disney Star Wars has done has actually pandered to the original fans, except any time they bring creepy de-aged Luke Skywalker into it.

I think you're both treferring to different things. I agree, that by and large, Disney's Star Wars output has't been faithful to the original films, and they've done a disservice to the fans overall.

OTOH, I think what Endess is expressing is that, instead of pursuing new ground, they keep trying to drag in old fans by recycling the same stories/characters.

I do think, whatever else, the sequels tried to cash in on nosalgia , especially the first and third film, and the Book of Boba Fett and this Obi Wan show. I think the Mandalorian was pretty good at the occasional fan service while stepping into newer territory. Not exceptional, but enough that I was OK with the finale reveal. But it still played it pretty safe at the same time. If anything, the sequels highlighted how much MORE imagination the Prequels had, even if most of it didn't work for me. I don't think imagination is Disney's strong suit, not these days, when their major output, besides Marvel flicks, is crappy live action versions of their former successes.

So, I agree with both of you.
 

Endless Flight

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They would be so much better served to just move on to new characters. This same situation is happening with the MCU with fans asking for RDJ and Chris Evans to come back and I keep saying:

 
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We aren't going to agree on that across the board. I think the writing has been good enough for most of the shows. Some Disney shows have been better written than others. The animated shows have been very good. The last season of The Clone Wars is some of the best Star Wars to ever be made. Disney has a decent record across all media.
Gah, the writing on both Kenobi and Boba Fett has been terrible, lazy is the word that comes to mind that I've said to my wife a few times. Hell I'm almost a baby boomer so maybe that's my problem, depending on whose age bracket system I fall under Gen-X or Baby Boomer. (Shrugs) Regardless, shitty writing is shitty writing and both have an abundance of shitty writing. If they were trying to cash in on my memories of standing in line back in the summer of 1976 to see Star Wars, they really shit the bed in my opinion.
 
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