The Star Wars Thread

Stevethulhu

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Most of the high fantasy elements in Game of Thrones felt like filler. Zombies? Wizards? Dragons? Who cares when you've got brutal rape torture betrayals going on with humans
Right, because the real threat in something based on A Song of Ice and Fire could never be the high concept one...
 

Necrozius

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Right, because the real threat in something based on A Song of Ice and Fire could never be the high concept one...
I speak for myself only: the high concept threat was a lot less visceral and disturbing to me than Theon's torture, wedding massacres and Sansa's traumas. Yikes, seeing frost zombies and dragons was a relief, actually. GoT felt like a horror movie at many times to me, and not because of CGI monsters and magic.
 

Stevethulhu

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I speak for myself only: the high concept threat was a lot less visceral and disturbing to me than Theon's torture, wedding massacres and Sansa's traumas. Yikes, seeing frost zombies and dragons was a relief, actually. GoT felt like a horror movie at many times to me, and not because of CGI monsters and magic.
I always felt that the human story was a distraction from the classic fantasy story behind it all. That all the stuff you mention didn't matter in the face of the existential threat to all lofe. That basically, people were fiddling while Rome burned, ignoring the real terror that was coming for them in favour of killing each other over a chair.
 

Necrozius

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I always felt that the human story was a distraction from the classic fantasy story behind it all. That all the stuff you mention didn't matter in the face of the existential threat to all lofe. That basically, people were fiddling while Rome burned, ignoring the real terror that was coming for them in favour of killing each other over a chair.
That's a really cool way to look at it :smile:. I hadn't thought of it that way.
 

Baulderstone

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I always felt that the human story was a distraction from the classic fantasy story behind it all. That all the stuff you mention didn't matter in the face of the existential threat to all lofe. That basically, people were fiddling while Rome burned, ignoring the real terror that was coming for them in favour of killing each other over a chair.
It seemed like that to me in the early seasons, but six years of winter not coming and the White Walkers staying on their side of the Wall, just diminished my anticipation year by year.

The White Walkers plot was also completely disconnected from the political plots. Babylon 5 had a similar story of political infighting weakening all the main characters while a larger threat was growing in the background, but there was also direct interplay between the two threads. In Game of Thrones, there was six seasons of nasty backstabbing... and there were also some dead guys out in the wilderness that were scary but weren't affecting the plot in any real way yet.
 

Stevethulhu

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It seemed like that to me in the early seasons, but six years of winter not coming and the White Walkers staying on their side of the Wall, just diminished my anticipation year by year.

The White Walkers plot was also completely disconnected from the political plots. Babylon 5 had a similar story of political infighting weakening all the main characters while a larger threat was growing in the background, but there was also direct interplay between the two threads. In Game of Thrones, there was six seasons of nasty backstabbing... and there were also some dead guys out in the wilderness that were scary but weren't affecting the plot in any real way yet.
To be fair, Game of Thrones doesn't compare well to B5 in a lot of ways. Sure, the budget was higher and the network was behind the show and made sure it went the distance. And yes, there were some pretty ropey effects. And some extremely ropey acting. BUt that's HBO for you :wink:

But in all seriousness, I can't think of a show before B5 that told a long form story over multiple seasons. Something that has become very much the norm today.
 

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This makes me think, what with Star Wars migrating to being a tv thing that lives behind a paywall, I may well be done with it at long last.
There will be films ... starting in 2022, and alternating with Avatar sequels.

Still sticking with my hand-picked subset of Legends. :smile:
 

Stevethulhu

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There will be films ... starting in 2022, and alternating with Avatar sequels.

Still sticking with my hand-picked subset of Legends. :smile:
I'm not into the Legends thing. More and more superweapons and clones of clones with uuuu names. There might be some good stuff in there, but it was never my thing.

And after TLJ, the best episode of 70s Battlestar Galactica for 40 years, I find it hard to get excited about a new Star Wars movie. Which is ironic, because I enjoyed Solo a lot more than most people seem to have.

I just don't think it's made for me anymore. But at least I'll always have the OT.
 
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Chris Brady

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There was nothing really wrong with Solo. Well, other than it wasn't Han Solo (he shouldn't have been that nice a guy, it makes A New Hope's redemption arc a bit pointless) frankly, it was a movie no one wanted. But it wasn't terrible by any stretch of the imagination.

The issue is that it came after The Last Jedi, the worst film in all of Star Wars, and the fans, angry at being duped that pretty much took a dump over the setup of the previous film, decided not to show up for it. It's how franchises die, it's never the bad film that shows the death, it's the next one. It's always the next one.
 

Stevethulhu

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There was nothing really wrong with Solo. Well, other than it wasn't Han Solo (he shouldn't have been that nice a guy, it makes A New Hope's redemption arc a bit pointless) frankly, it was a movie no one wanted. But it wasn't terrible by any stretch of the imagination.

The issue is that it came after The Last Jedi, the worst film in all of Star Wars, and the fans, angry at being duped that pretty much took a dump over the setup of the previous film, decided not to show up for it. It's how franchises die, it's never the bad film that shows the death, it's the next one. It's always the next one.
It's also the producers not realising what the backlash is against. All they see is the bottom line, so TLJ is a success. In the boardroom. The fact that it failed on many other levels is irrelevant.
 

Endless Flight

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The Last Jedi is the worst Star Wars film ever???
 

Stevethulhu

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The Last Jedi is the worst Star Wars film ever???
I'd say so. The whole thing starts with a Your Mom joke and goes downhill from there. All the elements are in place for it to be a great addition to the body of work, but Rian Johnson handles things so badly that it becomes a shambles. You can't subvert everything and turn everything on it's head just for the sake of a series of bad jokes. In exactly the same way that Zak Snyder missed the point of Superman, Rian Johnson missed the point with Star Wars.

And got tons of praise for it and offered a new trilogy to direct.
 

Ghost Whistler

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So they got a new trilogy pencilled in for 2022,4,6.

It. Will. Never. Stop

And that's ok...as long as the content isn't shit
 

Stevethulhu

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The Holiday Special is the worst Star Wars film. You cannot defeat this argument!
The Holiday Special is cheesy made for TV fun. And also gave us Boba Fett. I found that the reality of it isn't anywhere near as bad as the reputation of it.
 

Necrozius

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The Holiday Special is cheesy made for TV fun. And also gave us Boba Fett. I found that the reality of it isn't anywhere near as bad as the reputation of it.
I absolutely hated it. I thought it was boring, awkward, cringe worthy and ugly. None of the prequels ever bored me so much and at least they were nice to look at and had great music.
 

Baulderstone

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The Holiday Special is cheesy made for TV fun. And also gave us Boba Fett. I found that the reality of it isn't anywhere near as bad as the reputation of it.
You have a point. It is just an average '70s variety special, not a movie at all. While I found it bitterly disappointing as a kid, that was really on me. There's no rational reason to expect a TV special of that era to be anything like a blockbuster movie.
 

Chris Brady

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The Last Jedi is the worst Star Wars film ever???
No matter what people think of it, positive or negative, it has effectively split the fanbase AND it has soured most of them from seeing any more Star Wars, nor is anyone buying The Force Awakens or The Last Jedi merchandise, which is a massive money maker. Or rather, was.
 

Necrozius

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The Last Jedi had its moments. I only started to see issues with it once I watched nitpicking videos online. Still, I didn't think it was nearly as bad as others claimed, nor as revolutionary as others proselytized.

Then again, I'm not a typical Star Wars geek. I never liked much of the Expanded Universe ("Legacy") or the games, tv shows or comics. I like the Ewoks and Gungans, and genuinely feel sorry for JarJar; poor fucker was partly responsible for Darth Sidious' rise to power and Padme's death. Shrug.
 

Stevethulhu

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The Last Jedi had its moments. I only started to see issues with it once I watched nitpicking videos online. Still, I didn't think it was nearly as bad as others claimed, nor as revolutionary as others proselytized.

Then again, I'm not a typical Star Wars geek. I never liked much of the Expanded Universe ("Legacy") or the games, tv shows or comics. I like the Ewoks and Gungans, and genuinely feel sorry for JarJar; poor fucker was partly responsible for Darth Sidious' rise to power and Padme's death. Shrug.
I saw issues right away with TLJ. To the point where I tried to watch it again and couldn't cope with it. There's some truly bad stuff in there that for me is best summed up by people in red and black in a red and black room fighting with some guy who is wearing black and armed with a red weapon.
 

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I heard this wild rumor that if you didn't particularly enjoy a Star Wars movie, you're free not to watch the next one. Is there any truth to that?
 

Necrozius

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I heard this wild rumor that if you didn't particularly enjoy a Star Wars movie, you're free not to watch the next one. Is there any truth to that?
It's the reason why I never saw Iron Man 3. I wasn't hugely impressed with part 2. I kind of regret it now, though.
 

Endless Flight

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I saw issues right away with TLJ. To the point where I tried to watch it again and couldn't cope with it. There's some truly bad stuff in there that for me is best summed up by people in red and black in a red and black room fighting with some guy who is wearing black and armed with a red weapon.
That’s one of my favorite scenes. I got a Praetorian Guard LEGO figure on my bookcase just because I loved that scene so much.
 

Dumarest

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It's the reason why I never saw Iron Man 3. I wasn't hugely impressed with part 2. I kind of regret it now, though.
I thought Iron Man 2 was not very good at all and Iron Man 3 was even worse. Avengers: Age of Ultron was okay for the first half and then went from bad to worse in the second half. Galaxy Guardians I didn't find remotely funny or interesting, but I never liked Marvel's "cosmic" comics so I didn't expect much. My kids like the Rocket Raccoon and Groot. I've pretty much given up bothering with Marvel movies. I'll see them in passing on DVD when my kids watch them, but I think they're incredibly overrated and nowhere near as good as they were at their peak (Iron Man, Thor, Captain America: First Avenger, The Avengers, and Captain America: Winter Soldier). Plus I find them all overblown now. I'll withhold judgment on the ones I haven't seen yet: Black Panther, Galaxy Guardians 2, Spider-Man: Homecoming,Captain Marvel, and Avengers: End Game. I did like Ant-Man's two movies. But I always preferred solo superhero comics to super-teams, and I'm not into the "cosmic" epics, so those may be factors in my disinterest as well. The last bunch of movies just have too many superheroes in them for me. I will say Marvel was smart when they started the trend of hiring good actors for superhero movies.
 

tenbones

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Endgame is over-rated, but a good movie (I give it a 7.5) I have several issues with the characterizations of specific characters - Thor in particular (and no it's not because of his gut - I liked that but they beat it to death). Guardians 2 - good movie. Black Panther - good movie. Spiderman: Homecoming - good movie marred by a couple of scenes of injected idiotic politics.

The *problem* with the MCU is that they've run the whole Thanos-Gauntlet storyline... and it's pretty apparent they're going to head the way of "modern" Marvel Comics if their recent offerings with clearly ideological sprinklings and zero context, are any indication. They're testing the waters for it. I predict, like Star Wars, Disney is going to cash in on the reputation they've built upon, and it'll start to erode.

TLJ might be one of the worst movies I've seen in a decade. And I'm saying that purely from a writing/directing/editing/structure perspective. That it's Star Wars only makes it worse.
 
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tenbones

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There was nothing really wrong with Solo. Well, other than it wasn't Han Solo (he shouldn't have been that nice a guy, it makes A New Hope's redemption arc a bit pointless) frankly, it was a movie no one wanted. But it wasn't terrible by any stretch of the imagination.

The issue is that it came after The Last Jedi, the worst film in all of Star Wars, and the fans, angry at being duped that pretty much took a dump over the setup of the previous film, decided not to show up for it. It's how franchises die, it's never the bad film that shows the death, it's the next one. It's always the next one.
I say this to a lot of my friends that are in full Disney-boycott mode. It shocked me that I didn't mind Solo at all. My ONLY gripe about the movie was the guy playing Solo wasn't really a good "Solo". If they had said this is "Zeb Buckaroo, Corellian Thief: The MOVIE" - I would have been perfectly fine with it. It was a fun movie.

TLJ tho.... lordy...
 

Dumarest

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I say this to a lot of my friends that are in full Disney-boycott mode. It shocked me that I didn't mind Solo at all. My ONLY gripe about the movie was the guy playing Solo wasn't really a good "Solo". If they had said this is "Zeb Buckaroo, Corellian Thief: The MOVIE" - I would have been perfectly fine with it. It was a fun movie.
That's pretty much my exact opinion. The lead was a lousy Han Solo. The movie was fairly decent aside from too many explosions and chases. It would have been much more watchable with a better lead actor playing a different character. Personally I would like it better if Disney branched out and made movies that take place in the Star Wars galaxy but aren't tied to the original movies. There are so many stories they could tell.

I'm stealing the name Zeb Buckaroo next time I play WEG Star Wars, by the way, and you're not getting any credit for coming up with it.
 

Endless Flight

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That's pretty much my exact opinion. The lead was a lousy Han Solo. The movie was fairly decent aside from too many explosions and chases. It would have been much more watchable with a better lead actor playing a different character. Personally I would like it better if Disney branched out and made movies that take place in the Star Wars galaxy but aren't tied to the original movies. There are so many stories they could tell.

I'm stealing the name Zeb Buckaroo next time I play WEG Star Wars, by the way, and you're not getting any credit for coming up with it.
You’re in luck. The next two trilogies will have no ties to the Skywalker Saga.
 

Gabriel

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I like the OT. I even like the special editions. I also like the prequels. Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith are my favorite Star Wars movies.

I haven't liked any of the TV shows. Rebels did have that one moment of Obi Wan vs Darth Maul. That one bit was Star Wars, and exists in my canon. All the other parts I've seen of Clone Wars and Rebels... meh.

I've disliked the Disney films. I've seen The Force Awakens which I thought was tedious. I've seen Rogue One, which I thought was pretty awful. I can't even get through The Last Jedi because it's such a mess. More in a sec.

I did like Solo, but I have to view it as a movie not about Han Solo or even in the Star Wars universe. Instead I see it as a big budget version of a movie like Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone. I don't know why Lando and Chewie are in it, but movies are strange sometimes.

Back to The Last Jedi. I've tried to watch it, and I just can't. Two things stick out in the early scenes which bug me.

There's this zooming down shot, where rebel ships are evacuating, and the camera is zipping down, down to the planet. Then, instead of using modern SFX to zoom all the way to the planet, there's a jarring cut to people on the planet.

Uhm... why do it like that? You've just destroyed the visual spectacle. Even an old 80s movie where SFX were more primitive would have done a better transition.

Then there's the "your mom" joke which opens and sets the stage for the movie. It's saying right out of the gate, "This movie is stupid and juvenile shit." It's tonally at odds with everything ever seen in Star Wars. I'd daresay without any hyperbole or irony, that something like that wouldn't even really fit with the Star Wars Holiday Special.

The Rise of Skywalker trailer seems just like the trailer for The Force Awakens. It's blatant pandering. I'm happy to see Billy Dee back, but it feels so desperate.
 

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To each their own. The "your mom" scene reminded me of the lighter comedic dialogue in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. But that's just me, I guess.
 

Stevethulhu

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To each their own. The "your mom" scene reminded me of the lighter comedic dialogue in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. But that's just me, I guess.
But then it carried on and on and on. Every potential dramatic moment being undercut by stupid jokes. And oh my got the lightsaber choreography was embarrassing. I've seen better lightsaber work on Youtube.
 

Gabriel

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We must not forget that it’s not the high art of the Sarlacc Pit belching after swallowing Boba Fett or Chewbacca doing a spot-on Tarzan impression during the Battle of Endor in Return of the Jedi.
But those are also very quick jokes. They aren't in the important introduction phase of the plot. They're quick little giggle moments that don't linger and then on to something else. The whole Hugs thing goes on and on and on, and it's firmly in the section of the movie where everything is being established.

Chewbacca doing Tarzan is a brief interjection of fun humor in an action spectacle scene. The Hugs bit is establishing the threat level and tone of the movie.
 
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