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Yub Yub... err yup yupYeah SW has always been about the plots. Remember in RotJ when they had to blow up the Deathstar...again?
Trailers don't do that anymore, really. Not for movies that are so heavily dissected by fans as these are. Something new, like the new Vin Deisel one, sure... but not for an established IP that is not based on a book or previous works. They keep it under wraps or risk spoilers.So a lot of people have been mentioning this, and I have to echo. What's the plot of the film? A trailer, especially a 2+ minute one, usually gives a direction, but all we got was flash and size comparisons.
I'm so glad they're fitting in older footage. It's nice to say one last goodbye.Luke: "The Force will be with you..."
Leia: "...Always."
I need a tissue.
Personally, I think no Star Wars is better than bad Star Wars. And after the way the dreadful TLJ was praised and defended by the media and the way the actually quite good Solo was savaged by the same, I have little to no faith in the makers of Star Wars.I grew up with old Star Wars (Pre Remastered) and played most Lucas arts and west end games versions of Star Wars games. Loved them all, love the new stuff too.
It's been too long to capture Original Star Wars anymore, the actors have aged out of the roles and a new cast with new ideas is needed. I would rather more Star War than no Star Wars.
Personally, I think no Star Wars is better than bad Star Wars. And after the way the dreadful TLJ was praised and defended by the media and the way the actually quite good Solo was savaged by the same, I have little to no faith in the makers of Star Wars.
It doesn't help that I find JJ Abrams to be at best a mediocre director. Hes good at beginnings, struggles with middles and can't make an ending work to save his life. The whole Mystery Box concept.can only lead to disappointment for the audience. But he really doesn't get that.
So yes, I have no real enthusiasm for the next toy ad in the series.
...JJ Abrams...The whole Mystery Box concept.can only lead to disappointment for the audience. But he really doesn't get that.
But if it never makes money to recoup that, and instead loses money, at what point do they stop, let it fallow and then try again?Disney paid big money for Star Wars, they won't be burying it in the vault for more than a couple years. Investments need to make money. They might eventually figure out a formula that works for them. They gave us the plucky rebels against the overwhelming space Nazi menace again instead of the rebuilding of the republic and the struggle against the remnants of the Empire. I think this was a mistake. We needed a new menace and quite possibly a force related one. It's hard to keep these things on tone. It's good to have call backs to stuff from previous movies but you don't want Star Wars to become a static and self referential trap devoid of new ideas either. Well, unless you're Disney and want to hedge your bets by not taking any risks with your expensive new franchise.
Also, the problem with bigger and bigger fish is that you eventually lose the awe as you go from Star Destroyer to Executioner to Dreadnaught.
I kinda feel the new Star Wars is like the worst elements of Legends... feels like fanfic. And I'm not saying that to shit on fanfic. I'm saying it's like "bad fanfic".I will go to every opening weekend of Star Wars until the day I die.
They've already recouped their original investment and they make money on the Star Wars brand hand over fist. Who told you otherwise?But if it never makes money to recoup that, and instead loses money, at what point do they stop, let it fallow and then try again?
Well this is what happens when
I kinda feel the new Star Wars is like the worst elements of Legends... feels like fanfic. And I'm not saying that to shit on fanfic. I'm saying it's like "bad fanfic".
That's the thing, I've been hearing they have not. That's why they're deluging the market, why they're panicking with putting all this Star Wars things behind a subscription system to get some money back.They've already recouped their original investment and they make money on the Star Wars brand hand over fist. Who told you otherwise?
You'd be amazed at how far that bit of non-canon is still going to this day. Again, despite Lucas HIMSELF making it non-canon by changing the Clone Wars from the more interesting Insane Cloned Jedi vs The Galaxy to Meat Robots vs. Metal Robots. That invalidates the entire Zahn Trilogy.No, the worst elements of Legends are Chewie getting killed by a moon crashing into him, the Vong, Luuke the Clone, the list goes on and on. Meanwhile the three original heroes live to be 150. The goodwill of the Thrawn trilogy can only go so far.
They haven't yet. That's the problem. They NEED the money NOW. The merchandising for their movies have been utter and complete failures. They helped run Toy'R'Us U.S. out of business! Millions of dollars of toys, pencils, toothbrushes, shirts are rotting on shelves, as kids are wanting Marvel Movie stuff instead.They’ll make the money back.
I actually didn’t think they paid that much for it. Go into any store like Target or Walmart and see how much Star Wars merchandise there is. Not just toys, but cups, shirts, pencils, toothbrushes, Blu-rays, food. Disney makes a small cut off of every one of those.
Taste, subjective, you know the drill.
They haven't yet. That's the problem. They NEED the money NOW. The merchandising for their movies have been utter and complete failures. They helped run Toy'R'Us U.S. out of business! Millions of dollars of toys, pencils, toothbrushes, shirts are rotting on shelves, as kids are wanting Marvel Movie stuff instead.
And again, Disney's real money maker have ALWAYS been the theme parks, and it ain't doin' it this time.
I'm more willing to believe a Disney insider than a media agency that's been known to publish lies and spin. Especially given the evidence of desperation and double talk they're doing to cover their failing business venture.This is wrong. Disney has made its money back. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/six...sfilm-disney-has-recouped-its-investment.html
You can add the CW cgi series in there too. It’s mere existence really riles people. That it has actual fans makes it even worse."As a Star Wars discussion approaches infinity, the probability of it becoming a gripefest about the EU, Special Editions or Prequels approaches 1"--a recasting of Godwin's Law I came up with about 15 years back and that still holds true today.
Are you talking to me? I LOVE Star Wars. I eat up EVERYTHING they have, even the bad stuff. I try to follow the lore as best I can. I also understand that it's not perfect either. But I ABSOLUTELY ADORE the franchise. I'm upset at how badly it's been treated.Chis, I think you are projecting your distaste at Star Wars into something it isn't. EVERYTHING I've been able to find on this subject has been that it did not do as well as the Force Awakens but was still a massive success. It was still the ninth highest grosser of all time pre end game, and it is still sitting at number 13.
I get you don't like the movie, and that is fine, but I simply don't believe what you are saying to be true here as almost everything else says differently.
Still not seeing it. Still think it's projecting. People do it all the time... when they encounter something they viscerally dislike, they look for things, and only for things, that validate their opinion.Are you talking to me? I LOVE Star Wars. I eat up EVERYTHING they have, even the bad stuff. I try to follow the lore as best I can. I also understand that it's not perfect either. But I ABSOLUTELY ADORE the franchise. I'm upset at how badly it's been treated.
I'm also a writer, though. Not professional, not yet. But I'm working on that. Here's the thing: The rules of writing, such as they are, are more like suggestions than anything hard, but the Prequels and Sequels have several issues in terms of their mythology.
There are things like setting consistency that allow an audience to stay hooked, things that won't cause them to question it. It also is not that deep either. You don't need to be a loser lore nerd like myself to actually see how the two Sequel films don't work.
Episode 7 in terms of story structure, I've already explained elsewhere. They worked backwards from the ending, and relied on coincidence and the actors having read the script to have happen in the way it did. Also, according the FIRST movie, Star Wars, or a New Hope, a ship CANNOT hyperspace into a planetary atmosphere. It also requires incredible amount of mathematical computations to get it right and not end up dead, again, straight from the first movie in 1977.
Episode 8 actually destroys the franchise. By ignoring A New Hope, they allowed a single ship to destroy a fleet. It's a GORGEOUS effect, it's very cool, impactful and awe inspiring, it's also stupid because that's not how the FIRST MOVIE established how Hyperspace worked. But the real damage comes apparent if you're a loser lore nerd like me. Hyperspace travel has been around for 15,000 years. And you're telling ME that a Space Hippy figured out the setting's greatest, and literally unstoppable, anti-space fleet weapon? Not ONE weapons engineer figured it out?
I'm passionate because I CARE. If I didn't I wouldn't be here. I'd let it die. But I can't. And I'm just a little guy with a keyboard and knowledge of how Hollywood works...
And watch this, when the MCU declines (and it will. To a lot of people it's been a great 10 years, but it's done now. Time to move on.) the executives will blame 'Superhero Fatigue' as to why it's not so hot anymore, and then Disney will Black Cauldron it.
Looking into it, Clone wars broke this "rule" first with micro jumps.I don’t remember anyone in A New Hope saying a ship can’t enter an atmosphere when it is Hyperspace. A ship cannot go through solid objects while in Hyperspace, but atmosphere? I don’t remember that. And even if a character did say it, it still doesn’t mean it’s not possible.
I personally think all the movies after The Empire Strikes Back haven't been very good or interesting, but I've found the best solution is not to watch them. I have the first three movies--original theatrical release versions--at home where George Lucas can't ruin them. I have the Marvel comic books. I have the Han Solo and Lando Calrissian novel trilogies and Splinter in the Mind's Eye. I'll never need more Star Wars than I already have. I don't really get why anybody cares if Disney makes money or not, or makes bad movies other people will pay to see.You can enjoy it or not, but I simply fail to get why some people need to scream from the rooftops how much they hate it in order to make other people hate it too.
I wen through this with the Abrams reboot of Star Trek until someone pointed out that I was being a douche and ruining it for others. So I stopped. Now I do not understand why I was like that. It's more fun to geek out over something you like than it is to moan about something you don't.I personally think all the movies after The Empire Strikes Back haven't been very good or interesting, but I've found the best solution is not to watch them. I have the first three movies--original theatrical release versions--at home where George Lucas can't ruin them. I have the Marvel comic books. I have the Han Solo and Lando Calrissian novel trilogies and Splinter in the Mind's Eye. I'll never need more Star Wars than I already have. I don't really get why anybody cares if Disney makes money or not, or makes bad movies other people will pay to see.
The trouble with fans is they invest themselves in a property over which they have no control yet feel as if they are somehow rightful owners simply for loving it. We need to realize it's just business and they're going to do whatever they think will maximize profits. Sometimes you just have to jump ship. I've had to take this course with Star Trek, DC and Marvel superheroes, James Bond, pretty much any franchise that goes on a long while or gets "rebooted." The Man from U.N.C.L.E., the Steed & Peel Avengers, even Clash of the Titans have all been brought back with inferior nee interpretations I pretend never happened. I decided to look at it this way: I still have the original versions that I enjoy (because we live in a golden age for reprints and rereleases) and all the money I'm saving on the new junk I can save or use to discover something else. All my comic book budget, for instance, now goes to Golden Age reprints of characters and stories that previously you couldn't get hold of unless you were (1) wealthy and (2) didn't mind potentially damaging a 75-year-old comic book by reading it. I was just writing about this in the "Whatcha Readin'" thread:
It's a lot more fun, and probably healthier, than bitching and moaning about why the modern Batman sucks or why the portrayal of Captain America is so out of character.
That's the thing, I've been hearing they have not. That's why they're deluging the market, why they're panicking with putting all this Star Wars things behind a subscription system to get some money back.
A lot of the misconceptions is that that they see that 'budget' and then make a mistake thinking 'gross' is the actual income. Thing is those numbers only show a tiny part. The Budget is just how much was spent making the movie. It doesn't cover marketing. Which is usually another 50% to 100%, sometimes even more. Also, if a movie gets reshot (like say Solo did, about 80% of it was) they give one of the budget's numbers to sites like Box Office Mojo.
Next is Gross. Which is total money earned. But it's not what the studios get. Because Gross doesn't factor things like taxes, theatre cuts and other fees. In the U.S. for example, the theatre tends to keep 20-30% of the movies gross (which is why drinks and food is so expensive, they need to recoup the loss), whereas overseas it's often higher, like China's whopping 70%. So we need to play it safe and cut the Gross in half.
Let's take Spider-Man Into the Spider Verse. 90m budget with 375.5m. Looks good! Except that the marketing, being generous, would add about 45m (although, I heard that it was actually closer to 90m) so a total of 135m. Now, the gross still looks great, except that after theatre cuts and fees brings it down to about 188m, so about 50m profit, not so hot. And if it was 180m with marketing, we're looking at 8m profit, NOT that Sony had hoped for. Executives want 3x their investments, after cuts.
Also we need to remember, The Last Jedi bombed in China. By the second week it had been dropped out of 98% of the nation's theatres. By the third, it was gone. It hasn't made it's money back YET. That's the issue.
And finally, the theme park. Which was a MASSIVE hit to their license to print money. It was supposed to help with the recovery of that investment. It has not.