The "sweet spot" for Sci-Fantasy?

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The SWEETEST spot for Sci-Fantasy?

  • Star Wars

    Votes: 22 48.9%
  • Gamma World

    Votes: 4 8.9%
  • Flash Gordon

    Votes: 5 11.1%
  • Talislanta

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Tekumel

    Votes: 4 8.9%
  • Rifts

    Votes: 4 8.9%
  • Jorune

    Votes: 5 11.1%
  • Blackmoor

    Votes: 1 2.2%

  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .
Gamma World!! Here's why.

There are two great editions - the first one and the last one.

The last one was built on D&D 4e by WotC. It's imperfect, but it is a great hybrid RPG / skirmish boardgame. If I want post-apoc fantasy with minis and 5x5 squares, its perfect because chargen is quick and combat is brutal. It's 4e combat with more damage and less defense.

The first GW is glorious (as is Metamorphosis Alpha, its precursor) because its incredibly versatile, gonzo and brutal as hell. It's very OD&D jacked on steroids and as the GM you can dial up or down the gonzo. I've used GW1e for so many different campaigns, especially running 40k campaigns decades before they had a RPG. It's built on TSR D&D so you can import effectively anything OSR into GW without thinking and it works.

If you don't know GW, here's the free "no art" version of Mutant Future, a good GW retroclone
 
Had to vote Star Wars, but I specifically mean the Edge of the Empire, small pocket of renegades, rebels, and rogues (and the occasional space samurai-wizard-monk on the run) trying to make their own way in a small slice of the Galaxy far removed from the events of the movies, but still under the heel of an oppressive Galactic Empire trying to control everything.

That said, I'm also incredibly interested in the gonzo post-apoc of Gamma World, but I'm no big fan of old school D&D-ish systems. Are there any examples of Gamma World's ballyhoo (as opposed to Mutant: Year Zero's darkness and Deadlands: Hell on Earth's spaghetti western wasteland with zombies flair) not wedded to an old school and/or d20 based system?
 
Is the game done?

If so, provide linkage!

If not, what's your timetable to a playtest draft?
 
Personally I don't think Star Wars even belongs on the list, it is way over the line into sci-fi, not a whole lot of fantasy except in the broadest of terms. Enhanced mental powers like the force, are not uncommon in sci-fi fiction. As someone else mentioned, you could almost run Star Wars with stock Traveller.


I voted Flash Gordon because it is on the list, but would include any similar John Carter, Buck Rodgers, Space 1889. Hard to exactly put my finger on it beyond, air ships, and a lack of real physics / science (atmosphere in space, yet for some reason sometimes space suits required, unrealistically short distances between habitable worlds, crazy 1930s ideas of super tech etc).

I tend to like some fantasy in my sci-fi, but not a big fan of the reverse. I've never really liked Thundar and while I love the post apocalypse genre, I'm not much of a fan of fantasy post apocalypse, although. I do enjoy the fantasy / sci-fi mix in Wizards, so I guess I can't really say I don't like any of it.

Gamma World was on the good side of the line, Warhammer 40K, Shadowrun were acceptable, in each case the sci-fi being the stronger element, and the fantasy elements secondary, in 40K in particular more just futuristic Warhammer, really not a ton of traditional fantasy that I recall (beyond the fantasy races that is).
 
Yup, I agree with the sentiment that Star Wars doesn't belong on the discussion.
 
My taste for sci-fantasy is tough for me to pin down. I kinda wanna say "He-Man, Thundercats, Thundarr the Barbarian, Joust (the video game)" which basically boils down to "Cartoons & stuff from when I was a kid." If there is any element beyond nostalgia... maybe that it's not too dark? I like sword & planet style stuff with a sci-fi edge too. It just all has to feel light on its feet, not caring too much about particulars. The original Star Wars movies are good and all, but now it's hard for me to get back in that original mind-set as fandom and the pursuit of cash have bloated it into a super lore-heavy thing I keep trying to forget details of.
 
Anyone remember Rocket Robinhood? Late 1960s with similar crummy animation to the 1960s Spiderman cartoon.

There is some serious drug addled sci-fi / fantasy for you. Only saw it a little bit as a child, but it made a lasting impression on me.

 
How does Star Wars not fit because of not enough fantasy but completely and totally non fantasy Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon and John Carter do? The science in them is outdated and handwaved even for it's day, sure, but there's no magic or supernatural at all in and them.
 
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How does Star Wars not fit because of not enough fantasy but completely and totally non fantasy Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon and John Carter do? The science in them is outdated and handwaved even for it's say, sure, but there's no magic or supernatural at all in and them.


Star Wars is the first thing I think of when I hear the term "Sci-Fantasy". Reading through the thread, someone brought up Shadowrun, which I really like, but I don't really think of it as "Sci Fantasy" (despite it obviously being so), I just think of it as Cyberpunk that happens to take place in a fantasy world.

To answer the question of the thread in general though, while I'm not opposed to SciFi, for the most part it really doesn't push my buttons. I'm much more into fantasy as a genre, especially stuff that gets really into the folklore/mythical side of things. There is SciFi I quite like (Dune, Phillip K Dick, Aliens, Critters), it doesn't light up my brain the same way a really good fantasy does (though at the same time mediocre or bad SciFi doesn't offend me the same way generic, uncreative fantasy does). I guess then the "sweet spot" for me is stuff that is primarily fantasy with some scifi elements thrown in - MOTU, Krull, Adventure Time, etc.
 
Star Wars belongs because they don't spend much time on how or why the space magic/psychic power works, or even the technology, unlike science fiction. Space Opera is about the adventure, the inhabitants of the world simply accept how it works because it's so common. Even rare things are accepted because there's stories and anecdotes of Jedi and Sith, and the magnificent and terrible things they could do.

Science Fiction is about asking 'What If', and focusing on the implications of such a change, whether it be scientific, technological, societal or alien. Star Wars does not do this. All it's fancy weapons, and ships are (no pun intended) vehicles to tell tales.
 
View attachment 11823

I got Castle Greyskull for Christmas in 1982 or ‘83. I loved this box artwork so much I cut the side from the box and kept it for awhile.

Probably around the same Xmas I got mine. And yeah, Earl Norem's art is what really brought that world to life for me.
 
Earl was the artist of early 80s toys.

His work gave real life to that world.
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He could take the goofiest toy designs and make them part of an epic reality.

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Hey, it just occurred to me that there is a cut and paste of He-man in the 5th and 7th image
 
Your Land Shark picture is William George. :smile:

Also, the Castle Grayskull image upthread is the box art from the statue Gentle Giant put out a decade ago. This is the original piece by Rudy Obrero:
castle-grayskull-highest-resolution-cleaned-up-1-768x513.jpg


I strongly recommend battleramblog.com for anyone who wants to do a deep dive into the history and artwork of MotU.
 
Eh, Stars Wars was never that big a deal either for my old group who preferred Bablyon 5 (which is a great sci-fi fantasy setting) or my new one that felt that the whole medical droid explaining that someone can die from a broken heart put the whole thing beyond sci-fi or fantasy and into just plain dumb writing.

Oh, and they started throwing around some science fantasy games (and shows) that y'all haven't mentioned yet.

Thunderscape: The World of Aden: Campaign Setting- because more : in a title means more awesome in the setting. Cool over the top D20 fun but with fantasy railroads and trains to match. Now y'all might just scoff and place it in the same pile with Eberron (which is also a sci-fi fantasy btw, seriously the attitudes of all the characters are post enlightment c'mon...) but it is a game that has a to do with the infrastucuture and economics that having a working train system brings to a society which is a realism more consistent with science fiction then fantasy.

Stargate campaign setting - this existed for one brief and glorious moment only to be never reprinted or spoken of again. I had forgotten about it until I was dusting my book shelves one day and found it hiding against the wall it. Beautiful setting that isn't afraid to ask the big questions like who would win in a fight a modern soldier or a crazy space pharoah? Seriously go out and find this book or any of the legendary sourcebooks that came after it.

Gene Rodenberry's Andromeda- Not a game setting but should be. Seriously this is the Iconic Science Fantasy show for my new group it has everything. Fallen golden ages, space diplomacy and intrigue, mystic space knights, crazy post-humans, intelligent space warships that can fall in love, and weird space god wars beyond human comprehension just to name a few.
 
I just file all "science fiction" as a subset of fantasy.
Well, there is that.
Eh, Stars Wars was never that big a deal either for my old group who preferred Bablyon 5
Now that's interesting. I hadn't considered B5 in terms of Science Fantasy, filing it more under Space Opera with Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, and Stargate, although as Dumarest alludes to they really shade into each other at the margins. The more I think about it, though, the more I can see the similarities with Star Wars, mostly in the Psi-Corps (Darth Bester . . . :crossed:) - but then I remember that "Where No Man Has Gone Before" alludes to standardized tests for ESP ability, and that Vulcans are at least as space-elfy as the Minbari . . .
Thunderscape: The World of Aden: Campaign Setting- because more : in a title means more awesome in the setting. Cool over the top D20 fun but with fantasy railroads and trains to match. Now y'all might just scoff and place it in the same pile with Eberron (which is also a sci-fi fantasy btw, seriously the attitudes of all the characters are post enlightment c'mon...) but it is a game that has a to do with the infrastucuture and economics that having a working train system brings to a society which is a realism more consistent with science fiction then fantasy.
I have a vague feeling that I've heard of this setting before, but this is the first description that's made me the least bit interested.
Stargate campaign setting - this existed for one brief and glorious moment only to be never reprinted or spoken of again. I had forgotten about it until I was dusting my book shelves one day and found it hiding against the wall it. Beautiful setting that isn't afraid to ask the big questions like who would win in a fight a modern soldier or a crazy space pharoah? Seriously go out and find this book or any of the legendary sourcebooks that came after it.
At least a couple of the books are in PDF on DriveThru, but I've been hesitant to buy them because of the reviews saying the scans are bad. Said reviews are quite old; anyone know if these have been updated?
 
Realism isn’t really meant to be more of an issue than it is in your average Captain America or Batman story.
And yet there's a series of articles on Bloody Elbow of all sites that analyze what styles and physical conditioning methods the Dark Knight is using... :evil:

People that want realism will inject their fix even in an obviously made-up story. People who don't, will ignore it even in games that literally contain it in the rules:shade:.
 
And yet there's a series of articles on Bloody Elbow of all sites that analyze what styles and physical conditioning methods the Dark Knight is using... :evil:

People that want realism will inject their fix even in an obviously made-up story. People who don't, will ignore it even in games that literally contain it in the rules:shade:.
I would point out that the article doesn't claim realistic, but rather plausible. That's different. People want internal consistency with a setting, you can't change key things without explaining them first.

For example, if your space travel system uses wormholes to get from point A to point B, which puts you into an alternate dimension where distance is shorter, suddenly being able to ram a ship in 'real space' brings up questions that the author needs to explain.
 
How does Star Wars not fit because of not enough fantasy but completely and totally non fantasy Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon and John Carter do? The science in them is outdated and handwaved even for it's say, sure, but there's no magic or supernatural at all in and them.



Difference of opinions on what constitutes fantasy but claiming John Carter isn't sci/fantasy? It is one of the founding documents of the sword and planet genre. That is like claiming Conan isn't sword and sorcery. :shock:
 
How does Star Wars not fit because of not enough fantasy but completely and totally non fantasy Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon and John Carter do? The science in them is outdated and handwaved even for it's day, sure, but there's no magic or supernatural at all in and them.
Actually Flash Gordon has 'magic', I believe it's called Mongomancy, so its sci-fantasy. I could see the argument that Buck Rogers and John Carter to be more sci-fi than space opera.
 
Now that's interesting. I hadn't considered B5 in terms of Science Fantasy, filing it more under Space Opera with Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, and Stargate, although as Dumarest alludes to they really shade into each other at the margins. The more I think about it, though, the more I can see the similarities with Star Wars, mostly in the Psi-Corps (Darth Bester . . . :crossed:) - but then I remember that "Where No Man Has Gone Before" alludes to standardized tests for ESP ability, and that Vulcans are at least as space-elfy as the Minbari . . .

Psi-corps work as an order of jedi knights as could the Minbari's Rangers. and don't forget the whole interstellar poltics of the setting is based off the last remmants of weird space gods still fighting for over a thousand years. Heh, B5 got space wizards knights covered twice over and then continues with two flavors of just plain space wizards the technomancers and the soul hunters.

Thunderscape: The World of Aden: Campaign Setting started as a couple of obscure computer games in the early 90's was briefly part of the master book rpg and then a couple of years ago they had a kickstarter encompassing all the previous games in one setting run by pathfinder. The computer games came from different studios so there were umm, elements that don't fit neatly but yeah a magic railroad system is a key part of the setting.

I was not aware that the Stargate rpg had come to drive thru I also would like to know if the pdf problems have been updated especially for the sourcebook.
 
I love how nutty some of the images are. Its just raw imagination painted on canvas with reckless abandon.

Agreed. It's rare to get art that so wildly embraces fantasy, but with utter seriousness.

That said, I'm also incredibly interested in the gonzo post-apoc of Gamma World, but I'm no big fan of old school D&D-ish systems. Are there any examples of Gamma World's ballyhoo (as opposed to Mutant: Year Zero's darkness and Deadlands: Hell on Earth's spaghetti western wasteland with zombies flair) not wedded to an old school and/or d20 based system?

Waste World uses a D20, but not the D20 system.

It's written by Bill King from 40k...and unsurprisingly, its the best not-40k 40k RPG.
 
Agreed. It's rare to get art that so wildly embraces fantasy, but with utter seriousness.
A lot of media used to up until the mid 80’s, then there seemed to be a paradigm shift that tried to codify thing and make them more “believable”. Lots of heavy world-building started taking place and everything had to fit a certain “Verisimilitude” box. By then the seemed to get toned down and a lot of the gonzo faded away.

The artwork reminded me a lot of old DAW and Tor book covers from the 1970s

Waste World uses a D20, but not the D20 system.
Quite a few games use a D20 that aren’t part of the D20 system. Talislanta comes to mind.
 
Agreed. It's rare to get art that so wildly embraces fantasy, but with utter seriousness.



Waste World uses a D20, but not the D20 system.

It's written by Bill King from 40k...and unsurprisingly, its the best not-40k 40k RPG.

It's literally one of the most awesome- PA "high fantastic/science" games out there (and this is from a long time Gamma World fan.)
 
Oh dang, and I totally forgot Jerry Grayson's Hellas: Worlds of Sun and Stone. In this thread, until he showed up. :grin: Amazing game.
 
That said, I'm also incredibly interested in the gonzo post-apoc of Gamma World, but I'm no big fan of old school D&D-ish systems. Are there any examples of Gamma World's ballyhoo (as opposed to Mutant: Year Zero's darkness and Deadlands: Hell on Earth's spaghetti western wasteland with zombies flair) not wedded to an old school and/or d20 based system?

The 5th edition of Gamma World was based on TSR's Alternity system. I don't think it was any good and the it cancelled almost immediately after its release, but some people like it.

You can check out Bounty Hunters of the Atomic Wastelands (https://ukrpdc.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/bounty-hunters-of-the-atomic-wastelands/) . It''s just a free pdf so, you know, but I've had great times with it. The combat system, while very simple and fast playing, can throw up suprising shifts and turns. It's not Gamma World (no uplifted animals) but it is very b-movie gonzo and a breeze to run.

Also, Cartoon Action Hours has a Not-Thundarr The Barbarian supplement called "Wasteland 2010" assuming you can get your players to approach it unironically (unless ironic is what you are going for).
 
Well, strange as it may sound Gamma World for 4th Edition D&D, was actually better than 4E D&D. (The cards sucked, just let players copy down the powers they want, and let them do their thing) Mind you, still based on 4E D&D. But was better written and explained.

Wasteworld comes close--depending on if you think rolling a d20+stat+skill vs Opponents is "old school" or not.

I'm working on a FaseRip/MSH inspired not-Thundarr but inspired by it game as well, but those are "old school" just not D&D.
 
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