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Voros

Voros

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My quick search turned up a number of Tolkien themed threads (some started by me and I don't even count myself that big of a fan!) but surprisingly we don't have a dedicated thread so I thought I'd start one to share this amusing tweet from the excellent sf writer and academic Adam Roberts.



Roberts no doubt received this email because of his excellent book on The Hobbit and riddles in Tolkien, highly recommended!

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The Riddles of The Hobbit | Adam Roberts | Palgrave Macmillan

Riddles are threaded through The Hobbit , and are key to Tolkien's creative imagination. The Riddles of The Hobbit situates this novel and the rest of Tolkien's writing in the context of Old English riddling culture, and more modern day examples; it sets out to solve the many riddles of the novel...
www.palgrave.com

Btw Roberts is also the author of the parodic Sellamillion.

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If you're interested at all in his own novels these three are my top picks.

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Beyond Lord of the Rings I really love Tolkien's more expansive essays on his world that are collected in "The History of Middle Earth" volumes. The more cosmological and somewhat less mythic rewrite of prehistory*, the more explicit connections to Christianity, the possibility of aliens, elves and humans being the same biological race and so on.

Of course there's also the languages which are meant to be a statement on beauty in language. Something I'd like to understand more.

*Or rather prehistory from the point of view of the Maia, rather than the human myth of the Silmarillon.
 
Farmer Giles of Ham and Smith of Wotton Major are actually my favourite works by Tolkien, and I say that as a devoted fan of Middle Earth from a very early age. The illustrations by Pauline Baynes perfectly complement the tales, and I ended up liking her faux-medieval style so much I spent a long time (and no small amount of money) hunting down one of the few other books she illustrated, A Dictionary of Chivalry.
 
Séadna said:
Beyond Lord of the Rings I really love Tolkien's more expansive essays on his world that are collected in "The History of Middle Earth" volumes. The more cosmological and somewhat less mythic rewrite of prehistory*, the more explicit connections to Christianity, the possibility of aliens, elves and humans being the same biological race and so on.

Of course there's also the languages which are meant to be a statement on beauty in language. Something I'd like to understand more.

*Or rather prehistory from the point of view of the Maia, rather than the human myth of the Silmarillon.
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I never read any of that stuff. It always seemed like a combination of a deep dive and a cash in on the old man's desk draws to me.

Where is a good place to start?
 
I'm almost surprised that no one has yet attempted to finish the unfished LOTR sequel in volume 13, People's of Middle-Earth...

I've always wanted to run a game based on the premise as laid out...Orc Cults and the like, the Return of the Shadow....could almost give a Lovecraftan vibe to Middle Earth
 
TristramEvans said:
I'm almost surprised that no one has yet attempted to finish the unfished LOTR sequel in volume 13, People's of Middle-Earth...

I've always wanted to run a game based on the premise as laid out...Orc Cults and the like, the Return of the Shadow....could almost give a Lovecraftan vibe to Middle Earth
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Honestly it would be a fun campaign concept for The One Ring rpg.
 
TristramEvans said:
I'm almost surprised that no one has yet attempted to finish the unfished LOTR sequel in volume 13, People's of Middle-Earth...
Click to expand...
Séadna said:
Beyond Lord of the Rings I really love Tolkien's more expansive essays on his world that are collected in "The History of Middle Earth" volumes. The more cosmological and somewhat less mythic rewrite of prehistory*, the more explicit connections to Christianity, the possibility of aliens, elves and humans being the same biological race and so on.
Click to expand...
At the risk of being pedantic, The Peoples of Middle-earth is volume twelve of the set. That said, if you haven't heard there's supposed to be an unofficial* thirteenth volume called The Nature of Middle-Earth coming out this summer.

Personally, my favorite of that series (although I've yet to read them all) is currently Sauron Defeated, less for the LotR drafts as for the incomplete Notion Club Papers (which, incidentally, touch on the idea from that first tweet that Middle-earth is our world in the deep past).
Stevethulhu said:
I never read any of that stuff. It always seemed like a combination of a deep dive and a cash in on the old man's desk draws to me.
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Well, yes, although I've never had the impression that Christopher Tolkien was motivated by money, as much as by wanting as much of J.R.R.'s creation to be available to the public.
Stevethulhu said:
Where is a good place to start?
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You might find Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-Earth a bit easier to get into than the History series proper.

*Unofficial in the sense that it's not actually being marketed as Volume 13 of The History of MIddle-earth, not in the sense that it's not more stuff from Tolkien's desk drawers. I'm honestly shocked there's still stuff to find in there. :shock:
 
Simon Hogwood said:
At the risk of being pedantic, The Peoples of Middle-earth is volume twelve of the set.
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Huh, I checked and you're correct, but I honestly kinda feel like I'm having a Mandela Effect moment...
 
TristramEvans said:
I've always wanted to run a game based on the premise as laid out...Orc Cults and the like, the Return of the Shadow....could almost give a Lovecraftan vibe to Middle Earth
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I played in one, it was pretty tight. The GM really knew his Tolkien. He had a generational system going for mortals to keep up with the elf and dwarf it was ingenious and cool.
 
Brock Savage said:
I played in one, it was pretty tight. The GM really knew his Tolkien. He had a generational system going for mortals to keep up with the elf and dwarf it was ingenious and cool.
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What system?
 
Aw jeeze a quick Google Image search doesn't show me but it was a Middle Earth specific system; if someone showed me the cover I could tell you. Brown hardbound book with nice art on cover. If I recall correctly system was kinda like d20 with 2d6.

Edit: Found it.
 
Brock Savage said:
Aw jeeze a quick Google Image search doesn't show me but it was a Middle Earth specific system; if someone showed me the cover I could tell you. Brown hardbound book with nice art on cover. If I recall correctly system was kinda like d20 with 2d6.
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Yeah, the Decipher game

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If I recall correctly our party had an elf related to Feanor, a dwarf (I forget the details), and two humans of Numenorean lineage (I started play as a prince). After Tracy's Numenorean died heroically she played a Maiar in mortal form sent from the West to combat the growing threat (it sounds cheesy but it in practice it was awesome and none of us knew IC what she was). I want to say it was a few centuries into the 4th Age after fall of Sauron but I honestly don't remember other than that the campaign started in a time of peace and restoration. DM made our characters which actually really worked for the campaign because all of us had gamed for years together and he knew what we liked.
 
Voros said:
My quick search turned up a number of Tolkien themed threads (some started by me and I don't even count myself that big of a fan!) but surprisingly we don't have a dedicated thread so I thought I'd start one to share this amusing tweet from the excellent sf writer and academic Adam Roberts.



Roberts no doubt received this email because of his excellent book on The Hobbit and riddles in Tolkien, highly recommended!

View attachment 25945

The Riddles of The Hobbit | Adam Roberts | Palgrave Macmillan

Riddles are threaded through The Hobbit , and are key to Tolkien's creative imagination. The Riddles of The Hobbit situates this novel and the rest of Tolkien's writing in the context of Old English riddling culture, and more modern day examples; it sets out to solve the many riddles of the novel...
www.palgrave.com

Btw Roberts is also the author of the parodic Sellamillion.

View attachment 25946

If you're interested at all in his own novels these three are my top picks.

View attachment 25947View attachment 25948View attachment 25949
Click to expand...



Adam Roberts sock account spotted
 
Brock Savage said:
Never heard of it can you give a quick rundown?
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It's just annotations. A true annotated LoTR has been one of my holy grails for years (I love annotated books), though due to the size and complexity, they'd probably need to break it up into multiple volumes - probably one for each "book" in the books. In the meantime there's been seperately published annotations - I own two, but it's not quite the same.
 
Simon Hogwood said:
Wow, that's a blast from the past - I remember reading that page when I was first getting into looking up Tolkien stuff online.
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Yah, itt's been around since the AOL days I think. I remember having a binder with articles from it printed up along with the Language Construction Kit....
 
And so it was in the Sixth Age of Arda that one of the Noldor Sëadnagolf did see the sons of man lacked in their tongue a word to empathise with their creations. And so taking that Mannish tongue most influenced by the Eldar speach did he craft a word for them:

Ofelmita = Quenya for eläytyminen

Involved a good bit of analysis between Quenya and Finnish but it should be right
 
I’m a big Tolkien fan, though really haven’t spent much time recently with Middle-earth. Quite a while ago I (and many others) worked on an unofficial rpg called Hither Lands. The One Ring was so good, it kind of took the wind out of my sails.
 
valgunn said:
I’m a big Tolkien fan, though really haven’t spent much time recently with Middle-earth. Quite a while ago I (and many others) worked on an unofficial rpg called Hither Lands. The One Ring was so good, it kind of took the wind out of my sails.
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I remember The Hither Lands RPG from back in my days at TBP, it garnered quite a bit of excitement at the time
 
Anyone read this? I have it on my Audible list but I fear it may spend too much time playing defense of the Inklings literary reputation and so be too uncritical and apologist.

For instance, the real Lewis was a mixture of the admirable and the distasteful and he could be uneven as a writer, I think he improved as he got older, but most of those who write on him are loathe to discuss those complexities. Similarly Tolkien is too often presented as saintly, which sets off my bullshit detector as his relationship with Lewis suggests he had a more dogmatic mean streak than that image allows.

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I haven't read that book, but I've read a lot about The Inklings, I think I still own at least one book on them by Humphries.

And I've visited the Eagle and Child Pub when I was visiting Oxford.

At one time I tried to seek out writings by other members, but what I could find tended to be pretty boring. Mostly philosophical stuff, little in the way of fantasy fiction. I think thats why Tolkien and Lewis are the members most commonly recalled, even though there were lots of people formally and informally in the group.

Lewis I have to admit, I don't like, either as a writer, or the impression that I've gotten of him as a person. But I think this is the first time I've heard Tollers described as "saintly", lol. From my understanding he was arrogant, opinionated, and aloof.
 
TristramEvans said:
I haven't read that book, but I've read a lot about The Inklings, I think I still own at least one book on them by Humphries.

And I've visited the Eagle and Child Pub when I was visiting Oxford.

At one time I tried to seek out writings by other members, but what I could find tended to be pretty boring. Mostly philosophical stuff, little in the way of fantasy fiction. I think thats why Tolkien and Lewis are the members most commonly recalled, even though there were lots of people formally and informally in the group.

Lewis I have to admit, I don't like, either as a writer, or the impression that I've gotten of him as a person. But I think this is the first time I've heard Tollers described as "saintly", lol. From my understanding he was arrogant, opinionated, and aloof.
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They were probably less no more or less arrogant, opinionated and aloof than any other Oxford don of the time. It pretty much comes with the role. Had an ex that went to Oxford and some of the stories she told about the professors there...
 
Black Leaf said:
They were probably less no more or less arrogant, opinionated and aloof than any other Oxford don
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Oh I'm sure, but I do chuckle when I read the stories of his falling out with Lewis and can distinctly picture it in my head. Him listening in irritation to Lewis read the first few chapters of the L,W,&tW, and then gruffly going "well this simply won't do"...
 
TristramEvans said:
I haven't read that book, but I've read a lot about The Inklings, I think I still own at least one book on them by Humphries.

And I've visited the Eagle and Child Pub when I was visiting Oxford.

At one time I tried to seek out writings by other members, but what I could find tended to be pretty boring. Mostly philosophical stuff, little in the way of fantasy fiction. I think thats why Tolkien and Lewis are the members most commonly recalled, even though there were lots of people formally and informally in the group.

Lewis I have to admit, I don't like, either as a writer, or the impression that I've gotten of him as a person. But I think this is the first time I've heard Tollers described as "saintly", lol. From my understanding he was arrogant, opinionated, and aloof.
Click to expand...

Yeah that was my impression from my limited reading on him as well that was based on actual sources.

I read one rather uninspired and short biography that I can barely recall which has made me gunshy of digging into more Tolkien scholarship. I was probably thinking more of the online semi-academic discourse which tends to react to anything critical about Tolkien with outsized rage and umbrage (people still haven't forgiven Moorcock for Epic Pooh haha).

Of the lesser known Inklings Charles Williams wrote what sounds like interesting and odd religious fantasies. His personal life sounds...interesting?

sf-encyclopedia.uk

SF Encyclopedia Editorial Home

Welcome to the third edition of The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction.
sf-encyclopedia.uk sf-encyclopedia.uk
 
Voros said:
Of the lesser known Inklings Charles Williams wrote what sounds like interesting and off fantasies. His personal life sounds...interesting?
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Williams' Place of the Lion I found fascinating, sorta like a Christian old English version of Mythago Wood crossed with Unknown Armies.
 
TristramEvans said:
Williams' Place of the Lion I found fascinating, sorta like a Christian old English version of Mythago Wood crossed with Unknown Armies.
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Well, that sounds amazing. I really do need to read something of his one of these days.
Voros said:
Anyone read this? I have it on my Audible list but I fear it may spend too much time playing defense of the Inklings literary reputation and so be too uncritical and apologist.

For instance, the real Lewis was a mixture of the admirable and the distasteful and he could be uneven as a writer, I think he improved as he got older, but most of those who write on him are loathe to discuss those complexities. Similarly Tolkien is too often presented as saintly, which sets off my bullshit detector as his relationship with Lewis suggests he had a more dogmatic mean streak than that image allows.

View attachment 26196
Click to expand...
I liked it just fine, although I don't particularly recall anything that would let me place it on the critic-to-apologist scale. Mostly I like that it went into more about the other Inklings, especially (as you might guess) Williams and Barfield. It is, as I recall, more interested in how their intellectual ideas influenced each other than their day-to-day life. If that's more your interest, and especially if you're interested in a "warts-and-all" approach, you might take a look at this work, which specifically focuses on Lewis' pre-Christian youth:

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Simon Hogwood said:
Well, that sounds amazing. I really do need to read something of his one of these days.

I liked it just fine, although I don't particularly recall anything that would let me place it on the critic-to-apologist scale. Mostly I like that it went into more about the other Inklings, especially (as you might guess) Williams and Barfield. It is, as I recall, more interested in how their intellectual ideas influenced each other than their day-to-day life. If that's more your interest, and especially if you're interested in a "warts-and-all" approach, you might take a look at this work, which specifically focuses on Lewis' pre-Christian youth:

View attachment 26198
Click to expand...

I like a big of both. I do like something that focuses on the work or thought rather than personal life in general, most writers work is more interesting than their lives I think, with some notable exceptions of course. But a bit of biography is alwags good for context and just interest. I don't usually like the kind of bigraphy of a writer that mentions their work in passing but makes sure you know what they ate for breakfast and when they made a bowel movement. The Lewis book looks interesting thanks.
 
Roger Lancelyn Green's King Arthur and Robin Hood are passable if a bit dry young adult books. He was a member on the inklings. I think he also did a Greek myth book.
 
Is Tom supposed to be Tolkien’s version of Gaea?
 
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