Top Secret: New World Order

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The Butcher

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Kickstarter is live and funded in eight minutes.

I don't know jack about the original game but I love the genre and hey, I got $10 to bet it's good. Seriously considering the PDF-only pledge.

Those physical bits, though. :eek:
 
Looks interesting. I own the Top Secret SI game, but it looks like this is nothing like that. Does this "TSR" have anything to do with the guys who did the Gygax Magazine, or it is just a throwback to TSR from the day.
 
We played a fuckton of the original game back in the 80s. Our crew playtested Espionage and Danger International for HERO games and we constantly ripped stuff from Top Secret.

I am at the wait and see stage for TS:NWO. Looking forward to them sharing more about the system.
 
Shiny boxed set.

3-dice task resolution with a set target number for all tasks. Makes me wonder if the 3 die-types represent stat, skill, and (environmental/difficulty) modifiers? Savage Worlds-ish, or maybe Alternity-like?
 
You get three dice.
One is from Attribute
One of from Tradecraft (skills) there are 4.
One is from Assets (equipment)
You roll all three and want to get a 13.
When you roll a max number on the die, it explodes and you score a Burst, which adds a narrative good thing and reduces Tension by 1.
When you roll a 1 on the die, it implodes and you Score a Blowback which adds a narrative bad thing and increases Tension by 1.
Tension is a track that gets raised with Blowback and reduced with Burst. Tension can raise your Target number from 13 to 14, 15, etc.
 
You get three dice.
One is from Attribute
One of from Tradecraft (skills) there are 4.
One is from Assets (equipment)
You roll all three and want to get a 13.
When you roll a max number on the die, it explodes and you score a Burst, which adds a narrative good thing and reduces Tension by 1.
When you roll a 1 on the die, it implodes and you Score a Blowback which adds a narrative bad thing and increases Tension by 1.
Tension is a track that gets raised with Blowback and reduced with Burst. Tension can raise your Target number from 13 to 14, 15, etc.
So the higher the die not only means better likelihood of success, but also a more "controlled" result, both ways? That's kind of neat.
 
Yeah, kind of interesting, but only 4 skills, Combat and 3 Tradecraft? That seems a little extreme. Also TS has gone from "a game about roleplaying spies with optional rules to play a character in a spy movie" to "playing a character in a spy movie".

They moved away from percentage dice because "percentage dice are over", towards this new system because players today "want a system they can use to tell stories with".

Meh, with a side of bleah.
 
There was nothing wrong with SI's system. I was wondering when somebody was going to clone it because it's pretty cool.
 
They moved away from percentage dice because "percentage dice are over", towards this new system because players today "want a system they can use to tell stories with".
Where's the source for these quotes? Comments in the KS, or part of the updates?

It seems a little ironic that these quotes are made, and yet, "simple mechanics for the action don’t mean there aren’t plenty of charts in the book, from modern weaponry to vehicles to a list of specialized skills that include cryptography, handwriting analysis, drone piloting, blackhat hacking, even nuclear engineering". So players today want a fuckton of charts to go with a serving of storygaming??
 
Yeah, kind of interesting, but only 4 skills, Combat and 3 Tradecraft? That seems a little extreme. Also TS has gone from "a game about roleplaying spies with optional rules to play a character in a spy movie" to "playing a character in a spy movie".

They moved away from percentage dice because "percentage dice are over", towards this new system because players today "want a system they can use to tell stories with".

Meh, with a side of bleah.

Yeah, I'm much more of a "story guy" than most of ya'll, and that unsold *me*.
 
Does it still have cool class names like Infiltrators and Confiscators?
 
I was really excited about this when I heard it was coming out. After learning a bit about the meat of it. Not so sure....:sad:
 
You get three dice.
One is from Attribute
One of from Tradecraft (skills) there are 4.
One is from Assets (equipment)
You roll all three and want to get a 13.
When you roll a max number on the die, it explodes and you score a Burst, which adds a narrative good thing and reduces Tension by 1.
When you roll a 1 on the die, it implodes and you Score a Blowback which adds a narrative bad thing and increases Tension by 1.
Tension is a track that gets raised with Blowback and reduced with Burst. Tension can raise your Target number from 13 to 14, 15, etc.

I'd have to play it, while I do like systems that give you places to plug in more nuanced consequences, that sounds like it could be downright chaotic.
 
Where's the source for these quotes? Comments in the KS, or part of the updates?

It seems a little ironic that these quotes are made, and yet, "simple mechanics for the action don’t mean there aren’t plenty of charts in the book, from modern weaponry to vehicles to a list of specialized skills that include cryptography, handwriting analysis, drone piloting, blackhat hacking, even nuclear engineering". So players today want a fuckton of charts to go with a serving of storygaming??
Quotes are from the video on the KS page.
 
They moved away from percentage dice because "percentage dice are over", towards this new system because players today "want a system they can use to tell stories with".
H'okayyy...

mrw-i-smell-something-burning-then-remember-i-was-cooking-18252.gif
 
I saw this on sale at DTRPG. Anyone purchase it?
 
Can't see any reason to care one way or the other. I've already got James Bond 007, the original Top Secret, and Danger International. There's already a James Bond 007 clone out there, and since I always thought James Bond 007 blew Top Secret out of the water, I'd recommend the clone to anyone looking for a secret agent game that couldn't find a cheap copy of the original.
 
I loved the original Top Secret, I even owned both editions at one point, but recall the play being a bit too fiddly and not-D&D for my group to really get into the game.

I don't think it was ever the mechanics per se that were the strongest part of the game. From the reviews it sounds like it kept a fair amount of the crunch of the original system so I think the grognard fears of a storygame heresy are probably misplaced.
 
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Looking at the Kickstarter page, all those dice on the playmats look like more metagame stuff to keep track of like Marvel Heroic had, which blows me right out of any immersion, so I'm not the target audience. Also kind of a lame name when this is obviously not Top Secret anymore. Reminds me of the new Chill that isn't Chill. I do wish success for Mr. Rasmussen, though.
 
I didn't back it for all the above reasons, but I would absolutely play a demo.

Any reviews of the game in actual play?
 
I loved the original Top Secret, I even owned both editions at one point, but recall the play being a bit too fiddly and not-D&D for my group to really get into the game.

I don't think it was ever the mechanics per se that were the strongest part of the game. From the reviews it sounds like it kept a fair amount of the crunch of the original system so I think the grognard fears of a storygame heresy are probably misplaced.
Read in the posts from above they didn't keep the original system, or the crunch of it. SOunds kinda meh.... at best. But I would like to play it to see how it runs. Maybe, I'm wrong. I don't think so. But, maybe.
 
Read in the posts from above they didn't keep the original system, or the crunch of it. SOunds kinda meh.... at best. But I would like to play it to see how it runs. Maybe, I'm wrong. I don't think so. But, maybe.

A review of the actual game on Drivethrurpg explains some of the mechanics and it sounds pretty crunchy to me, not the original mechanics maybe, but hardly rules light.
 
A review of the actual game on Drivethrurpg explains some of the mechanics and it sounds pretty crunchy to me, not the original mechanics maybe, but hardly rules light.

A lot of games with more of an assumed narrative focus seem to go that way. FFG Star Wars is at least as crunchy as d6, but gets heralded for its ability to tell a "Star Wars like story". Marvel Heroic was at least as full of "game" as Marvel FASERIP. FATE gets called Rules Medium or Rules Light, depending on who you ask, but it's definitely got a lot of rules and mechanics and terminology to track.
 
FFG Star Wars is at least as crunchy as d6, but gets heralded for its ability to tell a "Star Wars like story".

Any truth to that? Or it just marketing?

AKA, does FFG SW do anything that SW D6 doesn't in regards to creating an immersive SW experience at the table?
 
Depends on what you feel like Star Wars "is". I never thought buckets of dice and pages of skill lists felt like Star Wars to me, personally. Felt much more at home with "serious" sci-fi rather than space opera.
 
FATE gets called Rules Medium or Rules Light, depending on who you ask, but it's definitely got a lot of rules and mechanics and terminology to track.

I'd call FATE rules-heavy. It's crunchy as hell in actual play. I find it to be a pretty tightly controlled game from a GMing standpoint. What you can set up for player interaction is pretty well set down. I like it a lot, I've run two successful long term games of Dresden Files...and they were awesome. But, Rules-light, it is NOT.
 
A lot of games with more of an assumed narrative focus seem to go that way. FFG Star Wars is at least as crunchy as d6, but gets heralded for its ability to tell a "Star Wars like story". Marvel Heroic was at least as full of "game" as Marvel FASERIP. FATE gets called Rules Medium or Rules Light, depending on who you ask, but it's definitely got a lot of rules and mechanics and terminology to track.

Has anyone here actually read the rules to confirm a narrative turn? None of the reviews I've read mention any mechanic that looks heavily narrative to me yet. CK's summary up thread is more OCC meta-mechanic, not much more than Hero points in James Bond.
 
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Depends on what you feel like Star Wars "is". I never thought buckets of dice and pages of skill lists felt like Star Wars to me, personally.
Any truth to that? Or it just marketing?

AKA, does FFG SW do anything that SW D6 doesn't in regards to creating an immersive SW experience at the table?

I would consider WEG and FFG SW both on the lighter end mechanically. FFG uses light narrative mechanics but is hardly a heavy crunch game. I think both systems are fine.

I doubt you'd enjoy FFG SW as it has those light narrative mechanics. Those who dislike such things aren't going to enjoy FFG SW. Luckily for them WEG SW is still around but that never seems to stop people from whining about it.
 
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This new Top Secret is getting smacked around in the review section at RPGNow. I think I'll pass.
 
This new Top Secret is getting smacked around in the review section at RPGNow. I think I'll pass.

It's a Catch-22 for these kind of KS.

Most designers are going to want to change/update the rules set, but most of those interested in KS the game are probably wedded to the old rules set.

But the designer is hoping the game will attact more than just that hardcore following but by changing the rules in attempt to attract them you'll lose the support of most of your core.

The obvious answer may appear to be just republish the original rules set but that would limit the game to the relatively small core audience, many who may just be collectors who have no intention of playing TS at a table.

And to do that seems to throw away the (however slim) chance of reviving the game at tables with what the designer sees as an improved rules set that would attract new players.

The hard truth is that the game was niche to begin with and after all these years even more niche. There was little to no chance of the KS release reviving the game in any significant way. Probably best to just please the hardcores and give up the dream.
 
I’m glad I didn’t back this. I basically wanted a reprint of the rules I loved and how they changed it.... the game isn’t for me.
 
Depends on what you feel like Star Wars "is". I never thought buckets of dice and pages of skill lists felt like Star Wars to me, personally. Felt much more at home with "serious" sci-fi rather than space opera.

What do you use for Star Wars?

I like WEG D6, but I'm not wedded to it.

D6 is light enough to move swiftly, but I agree the buckets of dice can be an issue. I switched D6 to successes instead of pips, then maxed dice at 10. Every 2 additional dice = +1 success. So if you have 6D in blaster and use a Force point, you roll 10D + 1 auto success.

I like successes because most people can't count fast enough for me. I swear I might just switch to dice with 3 symbol sides and 3 blank white sides.

I would consider WEG and FFG SW both on the lighter end mechanically. FFG uses light narrative mechanics but is hardly a heavy crunch game. I think both systems are fine.

So it's 6 of one and half dozen of the other?
 
What do you use for Star Wars?

I like WEG D6, but I'm not wedded to it.

D6 is light enough to move swiftly, but I agree the buckets of dice can be an issue. I switched D6 to successes instead of pips, then maxed dice at 10. Every 2 additional dice = +1 success. So if you have 6D in blaster and use a Force point, you roll 10D + 1 auto success.

I like successes because most people can't count fast enough for me. I swear I might just switch to dice with 3 symbol sides and 3 blank white sides.

That's mostly the D6 Legend system that the upcoming Mythic D6 uses. It theoretically solves the "buckets of dice" issue, as it counts successes instead of pips.
 
That's mostly the D6 Legend system that the upcoming Mythic D6 uses. It theoretically solves the "buckets of dice" issue, as it counts successes instead of pips.

Didn't that originate with their Hercules & Xena RPG?
 
What do you use for Star Wars?

I like WEG D6, but I'm not wedded to it.

D6 is light enough to move swiftly, but I agree the buckets of dice can be an issue. I switched D6 to successes instead of pips, then maxed dice at 10. Every 2 additional dice = +1 success. So if you have 6D in blaster and use a Force point, you roll 10D + 1 auto success.

I like successes because most people can't count fast enough for me. I swear I might just switch to dice with 3 symbol sides and 3 blank white sides.

Last game I used was Star Wars Saga Edition, which didn't really feel particularly like Star Wars, but overall preferred to d6. If I ran it again, I dunno, I'd probably just go ahead and give Savage Worlds a shot.

Yep, along with DC Universe RPG.

And I'm not sure how well that worked given the number of characters who had buckets of dice per stat by default.
 
Yep, along with DC Universe RPG.

Checked out of curiosity, Herc & Xena was 1998 and the DC game was '99. I preferred the regular d6 rules without the exploding dice. But haven't played any of them in ages.
 
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