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I am a reluctant Mongoose Buyer. I feel their product are nearly always $10 too high for what you get. The most recent release of 2300AD is a good example. Although I felt better with the $30 I spent on the 2022 Core Rule Update. Still I would not have had to think about it if it was $20 for the PDF.
Yes, this exactly.When I first went shopping on Mongoose's web site I got a sticker shock after browsing a bit and winding up with a basket worth over £400. I have some Mongoose 1e in electronic form but I decided not to get comprehensive with it for much the same reasons I didn't buy a lot of post-CT material. I had a load of CT material and not much compelling reason to get more than a smattering of later stuff.
OTOH I don't begrudge Mongoose their prices. To give Matt Sprange his due, he's managed to take a fairly niche product that was famously showing its age, and build a business out of revitalising it that actually pays employees. On top of that, he's paying some amount of money to Marc Miller for rights to the IP. He's gotten some good authors in and the best of the MgT products are regarded as world class (although some of the artwork in 1e was less-than-stellar).
There are a lot of well known role playing IPs that don't bring in a decent living for their creators or publishers, including people working with Traveller. Digest Group, for instance (the outfit that did Megatraveller) was done in their spare time while holding down full time jobs and almost cost the CEO his family.
The problem is not them charging accordingly to do the above. The problem is that quality and content isn't quite there on a consistent. It better but still can be hit and miss. The 2022 update looks good, the 2300 AD 2e efforts fall short and so on. Deepnight Revelation is solid along with the Rift exploration sourcebook. The two Aliens book are decent.Yes, this exactly.
Mongoose is a relatively small company, but with actual employees who are getting properly paid for their work on an IP with licence overheads to pay. That is where the costs come from. I do think people forget this, including those who compare it to Cepheus Engine, which has hardly any costs by comparison.
robertsconley Oh, right Striker and Azhanti High Lightning, I'm so rusty on Traveller. Thanks for the reminder, I did recall multiple subsystems back when a friend of mine was running it and I was playing in it. It's just been too damn long. I've snagged some of the Cepheus Engine stuff, it feels lighter and better written than say the Mongoose 1st edition Traveller book.
On the 2300AD stuff, I thought the 2nd edition wasn't out yet? That the current books are still the 1st edition material?
Originally it was called Traveller:2300. I think 2300AD was the second edition.
I used to use Striker as a combat system for Traveller. Out of the box it's a bit lethal - I saw someone do 36D damage with a gauss rifle on more than one occasion - so I ended up nerfing it a bit. Having said that, gauss rifles are a bit OP in vanilla CT as well.
Yes, this exactly.
Mongoose is a relatively small company, but with actual employees who are getting properly paid for their work on an IP with licence overheads to pay. That is where the costs come from.
2300AD 2nd Edition for Mongoose Traveller 2nd is out in PDF, although they are correcting errata and such before they release the physical product next year.robertsconley Oh, right Striker and Azhanti High Lightning, I'm so rusty on Traveller. Thanks for the reminder, I did recall multiple subsystems back when a friend of mine was running it and I was playing in it. It's just been too damn long. I've snagged some of the Cepheus Engine stuff, it feels lighter and better written than say the Mongoose 1st edition Traveller book.
On the 2300AD stuff, I thought the 2nd edition wasn't out yet? That the current books are still the 1st edition material?
Sums up my draw and liking of 2300AD as well. After reading the Mongoose 1st ed Traveller book, I didn't hold out much hope though for a good 2300AD book. With the revamps they've done for the 2nd ed Traveller update core book though, I was hoping that the 2nd ed 2300AD book would be similar in quality upgrade/updates.2300AD 2nd Edition for Mongoose Traveller 2nd is out in PDF, although they are correcting errata and such before they release the physical product next year.
I’d say, overall, it is my preferred Traveller setting because it has more real world cultural links (and politics) and is more inclusive of transhumanist concepts, biotech and the like, rather than furry aliens.
It is most certainly incorrect to suggest that Traveller: 2300 (as it was called in the 1st edition) was the first transhumanist science fiction RPG, but transhuman concepts still fit like a glove within the game’s general premise. Anyway, I like it.
I've always had respect for what Mongoose does even at the base levels.Thank you for saying so.
Over the years I became a little disenchanted with the way things were going in general in the hobby gaming business, so tried to make some changes with the way we did things here at Mongoose. Over the past few years, that has borne fruit - no little amount of my time is spent figuring out how to make life better for the people working here. The effect of that, and giving them freer reign on things like art budgets, has (I hope) properly elevated Traveller and Sea of Thieves. Paranoia is the next to get that treatment.
Anyway, just a long winded way of me saying thank you for noticing!
They have lifted the visual presentation significantly in line with the other updated Traveller books recently but, as I say, they are still working through the errata on the PDF before a physical release (about May next year?). Personally, I think the cost is an all-or-nothing thing - as I don’t think the presentation can be fully appreciated outside of the full physical box set with full size maps, etc. For me, I wouldn’t probably get the PDF on their own when the release is meant to be a box set, but that could just be me. I felt the same with Twilight: 2000 too.Sums up my draw and liking of 2300AD as well. After reading the Mongoose 1st ed Traveller book, I didn't hold out much hope though for a good 2300AD book. With the revamps they've done for the 2nd ed Traveller update core book though, I was hoping that the 2nd ed 2300AD book would be similar in quality upgrade/updates.
They released the PDF for 2300AD 2e for Mongoose Traveller 2e. and like T Trippy said Mongoose wisely has a long lead between the release of the PDF (which you get when you pre-order the book) and the release of the print copy.On the 2300AD stuff, I thought the 2nd edition wasn't out yet? That the current books are still the 1st edition material?
The armour table issue has been fixed, along with other errata in an update.I skipped the original Mongoose Traveller 2E core because they didn't include the ship design system in the core book, just some example ships, and I feel like a version of Traveller which doesn't have that in the core rules is badly missing the point. (Yes, yes, I know, they put a ship design system in a supplement. A supplement is not a core rulebook!)
I took a look at this new release, because I heard they folded ship design back in - but now I'm hearing there's errata already, like an entire chunk of the armour table missing and so on. Not impressive.
In Mongoose defense, their pattern for recent years is to release the PDF first, collect errata, and then print the books. M MongooseMatt can explain this better but I can attest that I received updated PDFs prior to a pre-order printing. And the printed book was of the last updated PDF.I took a look at this new release, because I heard they folded ship design back in - but now I'm hearing there's errata already, like an entire chunk of the armour table missing and so on. Not impressive.
Oops! I don’t buy hardcovers any longer unless it’s a second printing or even farther.Yeah the 2022 edition has definitely been printed.
In Mongoose defense, their pattern for recent years is to release the PDF first, collect errata, and then print the books. M MongooseMatt can explain this better but I can attest that I received updated PDFs prior to a pre-order printing. And the printed book was of the last updated PDF.
And to be honest this is probably the best solution because a decade or so ago it didn't matter who the publisher was for a Traveller product, there was always loads of errata.
How do you know? It is not coming out till January.Yeah the 2022 edition has definitely been printed.
Yup, it's my prefered reading method now a days. Though I do like to use the physical book for actual gaming. I also tend to keep the physical book next to me as I read the pdf. I find it easier to flip to a reference page in the book while reading the pdf, if that makes any sense.Another reason I like PDFs over physical copies.
Ah well. At least the PDF is up to date, and I guess the CSC will have to carry the Battle Dress stats on its own when passed around the game table (or the players can bring their tablets, of course).
1977 Traveller :-)So I was looking at this- T5 vs Traveller 2022 - which would you recommend?
T5 is pure Marc Miller. It is very much in the vein of original Traveller and very complete.So I was looking at this- T5 vs Traveller 2022 - which would you recommend?
I would say Traveller 2022 is better. T5 has a lot of content generation rules for the GM, but is a very heavy system in general. Traveller 2022 is a much simpler system, especially on the player side. Although it's cool generating your own alien species and continents for worlds in explicit detail using the T5 system*, not many players would enjoy using T5 rules in my experience.So I was looking at this- T5 vs Traveller 2022 - which would you recommend?
Both. Traveller 2022 is far more approachable. Although I would look at Cepheus first to see if you like the system overall. Both systems along with Mongoose Traveller 1e are a interrelated family of 2d6 based systems.So I was looking at this- T5 vs Traveller 2022 - which would you recommend?
Maybe it would help with the recommendations if I was to say I wasn't going to use either. I just wanted the material to use in other systems. I already have the 1977, but wanted something a bit more recent.1977 Traveller :-)
I was leaning towards Mongoose Traveller because of 2300, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.I would say Traveller 2022 is better.
What exact material are you looking for? Depending on what it is it might be better to get Cepheus products or stuff like Stars without Number.I just wanted the material to use in other systems
I just borrow a lot from different places. I actually have many of the Cepheus Products (the Clement Sector in particular is well written) and Stars Without Number... I just borrow a lot from different sources.What exact material are you looking for? Depending on what it is it might be better to get Cepheus products or stuff like Stars without Number.
If you are looking for a variety of adventures and settings to rip off, Cepheus is a good answer. As it is open license, people have taken it all kinds of directions. It's basically the same as the Mongoose stuff too, so once you know Cepheus, you won't have trouble stealing from Mongoose Traveller books.I just borrow a lot from different places. I actually have many of the Cepheus Products (the Clement Sector in particular is well written) and Stars Without Number... I just borrow a lot from different sources.
I think the 2300 angle puts Mongoose Traveller over for me.
It is possible to be overloaded with resources to draw from bug that’s never stopped me…’Maybe it would help with the recommendations if I was to say I wasn't going to use either. I just wanted the material to use in other systems. I already have the 1977, but wanted something a bit more recent.
I was leaning towards Mongoose Traveller because of 2300, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
I get the both argument too after reading posts elsewhere, as they say the options and generators are useful even if you use Mongoose Traveller.
Thanks for the feedback!
I'd say if using it for ideas that T5 will have that. They really are more a design engine, and yes not casual gamer friendly. They can read more like a technical manual, dense but a lot there. The design systems are really not all that tied to the game mechanics so are adaptable to other systems.I just borrow a lot from different places. I actually have many of the Cepheus Products (the Clement Sector in particular is well written) and Stars Without Number... I just borrow a lot from different sources.
I think the 2300 angle puts Mongoose Traveller over for me.