Traveller

[Nobby-W]

That’s fine, but they do an awful lot of worldbuilding to end up with something that‘s still really dull.

Yes, indeed. Unfortunately GDW were wargamers and historians at heart. They produced a lot of mid-level canon that doesn't do a lot to inform actual play while providing a wealth of fodder for old grogs to gatekeep and argue about on forums. The OTU is one of the great poster children for this phenomenon.

Can you name any of the Barracks Emperors? Do you care?

 

[Nobby-W]

I don't know a single person in meatspace who knows as much Traveller canon as me, and TNE and after was pretty much a license for me to ignore what was being published for the setting and do my own thing (not that I needed said license before, having created whole sectors that diverge from OTU sources). Grumbling of fanbois is pretty much a purely internet phenomenon to me.

I grew up in a hotbed of Traveller fandom for historical reasons relating to the supply chain for RPG material in New Zealand - the distributor usually only brought in Traveller or D&D stuff; other games came in sporadically at best until the mid-1980s. As such the town spawned a disproportionate number of true fans, so I had the dubious pleasure of playing with opinionated folks on more than one occasion.

It was enough to put me off Traveller - eventually I worked out that I didn't want to roleplay with any of the groups playing Traveller, and none of the groups I wanted to join were interested in playing it.

After that I went off and did my own thing for a while.

 

[Sharrow]

I grew up in a hotbed of Traveller fandom for historical reasons relating to the supply chain for RPG material in New Zealand - the distributor usually only brought in Traveller or D&D stuff; other games came in sporadically at best until the mid-1980s. As such the town spawned a disproportionate number of true fans, so I had the dubious pleasure of playing with opinionated folks on more than one occasion.

It was enough to put me off Traveller - eventually I worked out that I didn't want to roleplay with any of the groups playing Traveller, and none of the groups I wanted to join were interested in playing it.

After that I went off and did my own thing for a while.

Back then, while I had Traveller, I didn't play it. We played Space Opera for our SF fix.

 

[xanther]

Anyone here like any version of it?

Yes

 

[Silverlion]

I'm a big fan of Mongoose Traveller 1E. I've not picked up 2E yet, but I like the first version, I'm strongly considering Cepheus/Cepheus Modern for something in the future once I sort out my game groups. I like some of Traveller's setting and not other bits. I also once upon uptime enjoyed the distaff red-headed cousin 2300 AD, though I had issues with the main antagonist aliens. I liked most of the other aliens.

 

[xanther]

Haven't tried Mongoose, but generally liked what have seen. Pretty much Classic Traveller with the supplements for me but loved the artwork in T4, even if it was a production mess. Of course kind of house ruled the thing from the beginning (that being 1978 I think). FFS was my least favorite by far (I don't count d20 even as Traveller ), T5 is a wonderful design engine but hard to use given it's format.

Never got into the setting, as was way beyond it by the time it came out, so no canon for me. Otherwise I should let the code speak for itself.

tc+ mgt? tne-- t20-- t4 t5 tg- th? ru ge !3i c++ jt- au+ ls- pi ta- and he++

 

[MichaelTee]

Traveller was my first RPG, and as I'm very much into sci-fi and not into trad fantasy, it remains my fav RPG. I mean, I'm not a huge fanboy, although I did recommend the names Marc for my grandson and Loren for my granddaughter (quite reasonable suggestions, which were rejected by my heathen step-daughter ["Sci-fi! Ewww!"]).
But these days I'm more into Cepheus Engine, and the excellent settings put out by Zozer and Independence Games. Am still fond of Classic Traveller, and I like bits and pieces from almost all of the other versions.

 

[Dyrnwyn]

So, at the risk of starting something, does anyone know why Mongoose changed the terms of their OGL for the second edition (i.e. making it a lot more restrictive)?

In hindsight, it led to a number of great games via the Cepheus Engine, but I always wondered what was up with the change.

 

[robertsconley]

So, at the risk of starting something, does anyone know why Mongoose changed the terms of their OGL for the second edition (i.e. making it a lot more restrictive)?
In hindsight, it led to a number of great games via the Cepheus Engine, but I always wondered what was up with the change.

They shared the Third Imperium. But Mongoose carelessly used the boilerplate license that DriveThruRPG offers which restricts derivatives works of anything that what was posted to TAS. Which was fine if the material used the Third Imperium but beyond stupid if you owned original Setting IP as a publisher.

And because of what was shared as open content as Mongoose Traveller 1e, the most active third-party publishers at the time were all about original Setting IP. And because unlike Matthew Sprange they pay attention to this setup and quickly figured it out. Then a few months later Jason Kemp did the hard part of combining various the open content for science fiction (MgT 1e, Traveller 20, D20 Modern, etc.) to come up with Cepheus. And everybody started to switch.

TAS languished for a long time but since MgT 2e turned out to be a decent line of products for Traveller it now has a bit of life in it as well.

 

[Nobby-W]

[ . . . ]

tc+ mgt? tne-- t20-- t4 t5 tg- th? ru ge !3i c++ jt- au+ ls- pi ta- and he++

Oh, dear. An IMTU geek code. That's so nerdy even I don't know what it means without looking it up.

 

[Sharrow]

Oh, dear. An IMTU geek code. That's so nerdy even I don't know what it means without looking it up.

They were a thing on the Traveller Mailing List back when geek codes first turned up. This is the first I've seen in a long, long time.

 

[Nobby-W]

They were a thing on the Traveller Mailing List back when geek codes first turned up. This is the first I've seen in a long, long time.

I don't think I've seen one in about 20 years either.

IMTU - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

 

[xanther]

Oh, dear. An IMTU geek code. That's so nerdy even I don't know what it means without looking it up.

For years Citizens of the Imperium was my go to forum. My first internet foray for personal stuff was actually Traveller related sites, ahh the ole' webring. Back then the code was often part of the sig line. Way back then, this http://www.dragonspace.com/trav/shipyard.htm was one of my favorite sites.

These days I save the IMTU code for dating sites, chicks dig it

 

[Endless Flight]

I never got into Traveller. The mechanics are just eh to me, and while the lifepath generation seems cool, I don’t find it particularly intriguing at all. I’m sort of annoyed by the four year terms.

 

[David Johansen]

So today's session

Third session of Traveller 5.1 today. They're at Rodsban Reaver's Deep 2002 E552000-0 while refueling their scout/courier at the gas giant they detect a ship a couple days out, it turns out to be a powered down lab ship with the pinnace missing they get on board finding no atmosphere and go to engineering, open the door and discover the battery powered basic remote laser turret which puts the scout captain down and badly wounds the rogue. The craftsman gets the fusion reactor going and finds fuel for a jump one.

 

[Sharrow]

Reaver's Deep, or Dark Nebula? Either way, interesting world. According to the Traveller Map it's got no population at all, yet it has a Class E starport. Maybe some poor sods get sent out there every month or two to check the beacon, see if there are any stranded ships there, etc.

 

[David Johansen]

oooh you're right, they have crossed into the very top of Dark Nebula, it's hard to tell when you're zoomed in.

Anyhow they jumped from Carter 1740 Reaver's Deep A7589A8 - B to Earlure 1901 C738332 - A which looks like the point at which they crossed into the new sector. Earlure is an Aslan controlled world with a population under 1000. I envision it surrounded by half a dozen automated satellites mounting laser turrets. These broadcast a warning signal that the world is claimed by clan Aererowaeso and landing on their property is forbidden. After a while a ship lifts off and broadcasts that there are few asteroids as the close binary system has swept up most of the rocks. But they are willing to sell refined fuel for a mere 1200CR / t. It's quite a racket they've got going there.

 

[Sharrow]

Yeah, that is a nice little racket. They're not stopping you from finding a nice little chunk of ice and mining it - if you feel like spending a few weeks moving to the local Kuiper belt and tracking one down, then spending a few more weeks getting to it. And they're not charging so much more that if someone tries to shoot them up they won't get help hunting down the perps.

 

[David Johansen]

Their custom 400 ton tanker mounts 2 triple laser turrets a triple missile turret and a triple sandcaster turret just to be on the safe side.

 

[jeff37923]

Anyone here like any version of it?

Yes.

EDIT: I have two groups on different nights running through the same campaign area of Foreven Sector. we are using MgT1e for the rules by popular vote (although I am pilfering stuff from just about every other version). Group one is a disgraced noble and his long suffering bodyguard trying to establish a colony funded by the Astroburgers franchise while Group two is a lone former Imperial marine acting as a one-man Section Nine in the same colonial area. So far they have Ine Giver terrorists tossed there as transportee political prisoners (operations formerly funded by drugrunning and perfidious Zhodani), Vargr Raiders (also funded by perfidious Zhodani), and the taming of an entire subsector and its worlds (later on, I'll drop some Chamax on them).

I started with CT and loved it.Fell out of love with MT. Liked the tech side but not the system or metaplot of TNE. Liked the mess of T4 (except the counter-intuitive roll under mechanic). Liked T20. Liked the lore of GT. Love the tech and world builders of T5. I love MgT1e and the first edition of MgT2e leaves a sour taste in my mouth (mainly because of the playtest), but since Martin Dougherty has been doing the lion's share of writing I've been giving it another chance. I'm ecstatic about the CT books available on POD.

 

[cryptkeeper]

The comments on Traveller being a game of mid-life space truckers is an example of how people never read the rulebook and make assumptions off of what they heard or actually played in practice. If you cannot take a set of generic sci-fi rules and make something interesting and fun there is no system out there which can save you from yourself.

I find Traveller more than adequate to bolt on anything from cyberpunk to baroque space opera. At the beginning and at the end of the Classic Traveller book Marc Miler is clear on what he believes the responsibilities of both the players and the gm are in a ttrpg, use your imagination. You have to put in the work to make it interesting, and if you don't have it in you we are happy to sell you a bunch of bland setting material and adventures (just like every other rpg company).

For experimental purposes I designed an over-the-top space opera universe in the grand sweeping approach of Dune with just the LBB's. The simple character profile makes writing up NPC aliens a snap, who has availability to jump drives and who can jump farther provides a simple interstellar conceit which makes figuring out political implications pretty simple, and a character creation system wide open to interpretation. It took me ten minutes to write up such bizarre characters as Sword Minds, Quantum Weavers, Crystal Ships, Merchant Masters, immortality drugs and inscrutable aliens. Mostly because there is not many rules to look up when creating. Highlights games are really only as good as the imagination pumped into them by everyone at the table.

I encourage anyone who has yet to read Marc's "Final Word" in Classic Traveller at the end of the book to do so. I find it clears the air reading exactly what the creator thinks about their game and ttrpg's in general.

 

[David Johansen]

Yes, indeed. Unfortunately GDW were wargamers and historians at heart. They produced a lot of mid-level canon that doesn't do a lot to inform actual play while providing a wealth of fodder for old grogs to gatekeep and argue about on forums. The OTU is one of the great poster children for this phenomenon.

Can you name any of the Barracks Emperors? Do you care?

Well, it's a bit like naming three English kings and answering "John" isn't it?

 

[Nobby-W]

The comments on Traveller being a game of mid-life space truckers is an example of how people never read the rulebook and make assumptions off of what they heard or actually played in practice. If you cannot take a set of generic sci-fi rules and make something interesting and fun there is no system out there which can save you from yourself.

I find Traveller more than adequate to bolt on anything from cyberpunk to baroque space opera. At the beginning and at the end of the Classic Traveller book Marc Miler is clear on what he believes the responsibilities of both the players and the gm are in a ttrpg, use your imagination. You have to put in the work to make it interesting, and if you don't have it in you we are happy to sell you a bunch of bland setting material and adventures (just like every other rpg company).

For experimental purposes I designed an over-the-top space opera universe in the grand sweeping approach of Dune with just the LBB's. The simple character profile makes writing up NPC aliens a snap, who has availability to jump drives and who can jump farther provides a simple interstellar conceit which makes figuring out political implications pretty simple, and a character creation system wide open to interpretation. It took me ten minutes to write up such bizarre characters as Sword Minds, Quantum Weavers, Crystal Ships, Merchant Masters, immortality drugs and inscrutable aliens. Mostly because there is not many rules to look up when creating. Highlights games are really only as good as the imagination pumped into them by everyone at the table.

I encourage anyone who has yet to read Marc's "Final Word" in Classic Traveller at the end of the book to do so. I find it clears the air reading exactly what the creator thinks about their game and ttrpg's in general.

Supplement 4 notwithstanding (the Luke Skywalker example is pretty contrived), you couldn't actually roll up (for example) Paul Atredies or any young character in Traveller without a rip-and-replace or significant modifications to the character generation system. It is actually geared to producing 30-something veterans, by design - the camaraderie among ex-servicemen or a ship crew was something Marc Miller explicitly wanted to capture. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is an intrinsic bias baked into the design of the character generation system.

Mongoose makes a point buy system, which relaxes this to some extent. However the services still function as de-facto character classes. Does it matter? Personal preference really. You can still roll up perfectly good characters but the take-what-you-get approach tends to be a bit love or hate.

 

[Rich H]

Never played Traveller. Feels like its a gap in my RPing experience of the 'Big 3' (D&D, Traveller and CofC).

 

[Dyrnwyn]

Supplement 4 notwithstanding (the Luke Skywalker example is pretty contrived), you couldn't actually roll up (for example) Paul Atredies or any young character in Traveller without a rip-and-replace or significant modifications to the character generation system. It is actually geared to producing 30-something veterans, by design - the camaraderie among ex-servicemen or a ship crew was something Marc Miller explicitly wanted to capture. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is an intrinsic bias baked into the design of the character generation system.

Mongoose makes a point buy system, which relaxes this to some extent. However the services still function as de-facto character classes. Does it matter? Personal preference really. You can still roll up perfectly good characters but the take-what-you-get approach tends to be a bit love or hate.

Sure, but that's where bolting stuff on and putting in the work to make it your own comes into play. For example, I've created my own system for building characters without career rolls (or formal careers altogether) that's generic enough to use across genres and settings.

 

[AsenRG]

Supplement 4 notwithstanding (the Luke Skywalker example is pretty contrived), you couldn't actually roll up (for example) Paul Atredies or any young character in Traveller without a rip-and-replace or significant modifications to the character generation system. It is actually geared to producing 30-something veterans, by design - the camaraderie among ex-servicemen or a ship crew was something Marc Miller explicitly wanted to capture. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is an intrinsic bias baked into the design of the character generation system.

Mongoose makes a point buy system, which relaxes this to some extent. However the services still function as de-facto character classes. Does it matter? Personal preference really. You can still roll up perfectly good characters but the take-what-you-get approach tends to be a bit love or hate.

"If your first career is Noble, Bene Geserit or Freeman, you start chargen at 8, and remain in the career at least for two terms, even with failed Survival rolls. House Assassins start at 14 like Barbarians".

The horror, the horror - took me all of 15 seconds to come up with it (and far longer to type it out on my phone).

 

[ScytheSong]

Well, it's a bit like naming three English kings and answering "John" isn't it?

Maybe. I can only think of one English king named John (Lackland).

I don't remember much about the Traveller back story, but weren't the Barracks Emperors a loose parallel to the Year of Five Emperors in Rome (193AD/946AUC)?

 

[Nobby-W]

"If your first career is Noble, Bene Geserit or Freeman, you start chargen at 8, and remain in the career at least for two terms, even with failed Survival rolls. House Assassins start at 14 like Barbarians".

The horror, the horror - took me all of 15 seconds to come up with it (and far longer to type it out on my phone).

A bit lacking in the munchkin-proofing department. Shall we backfill all the other careers to balance or just resign ourselves to everybody playing 36 year old 7 term nobles?

Or, just make up a FATE style freeform system. Or play FATE, for that matter.
No, siree, I did not see the 'Do not feed the trolls' sign.

 

[Endless Flight]

A bit lacking in the munchkin-proofing department. Shall we backfill all the other careers to balance or just resign ourselves to everybody playing 36 year old 7 term nobles?

Or, just make up a FATE style freeform system. Or play FATE, for that matter.
No, siree, I did not see the 'Do not feed the trolls' sign.

I don’t really care about the topic, but I would say in those specific cases the PC has a maximum age he can start at, say 20 years old.

 

[Nobby-W]

I don’t really care about the topic, but I would say in those specific cases the PC has a maximum age he can start at, say 20 years old.

Houseruling Traveller is a long and storied tradition and so is folks tying themselves in knots trying to shoehorn it into stuff it was never meant to do. It works ok but it works better if you don't screw with its core conceits too much.

 

[Sharrow]

Maybe. I can only think of one English king named John (Lackland).

I don't remember much about the Traveller back story, but weren't the Barracks Emperors a loose parallel to the Year of Five Emperors in Rome (193AD/946AUC)?

Or any number of other interregnums caused by the overthrow of a ruler and a civil war thereafter. It's not exactly an uncommon event in world history.

 

[Sharrow]

I don’t really care about the topic, but I would say in those specific cases the PC has a maximum age he can start at, say 20 years old.

Just have a term cap for that campaign. "Every character will be at least 16, and will have served no more than five terms." Now the only advantage a five term noble has is not having to worry about ageing.

 

[T. Foster]

Give those munchkin-careers an insanely low survival chance, like 11+ (or even worse - maybe 13+ so that character requires stats high enough to provide positive DMs to have any chance of survival) so anybody who tried it is likely to die (and have to generate a new character) instead, and anyone who is lucky enough to survive one or two terms won’t likely want to push their luck beyond that. Of course all such characters would have to be generated in the referee’s presence - no showing up with a super-character and assuring everyone that you really did make all those rolls honestly.

 

[Baragei]

Neatest thing about Traveller is the character sheet

 

[Endless Flight]

Neatest thing about Traveller is the character sheet

View attachment 47455

“Never leave your solar system without it!”

 

[AsenRG]

A bit lacking in the munchkin-proofing department. Shall we backfill all the other careers to balance or just resign ourselves to everybody playing 36 year old 7 term nobles?

You assume that I care about munchkin-proofing or balance...I don't, and honestly, I don't think anything is munchkin-proof, ever.
As for balance, there's all kinds of balance. Some are slanted.
Either way, if you're playing Dune, a BG, noble or House Assassin being more capable than a commoner is just emulating the setting. Which is exactly what I am after!

Granted, if you want a more traditional kind of balance? Just set up a maximum number of career terms, it's already in the rules!

 

[Nobby-W]

You assume that I care about munchkin-proofing or balance...I don't, and honestly, I don't think anything is munchkin-proof, ever.
As for balance, there's all kinds of balance. Some are slanted.
Either way, if you're playing Dune, a BG, noble or House Assassin being more capable than a commoner is just emulating the setting. Which is exactly what I am after!

Granted, if you want a more traditional kind of balance? Just set up a maximum number of career terms, it's already in the rules!

All of this can be fixed by houseruling and fixing up the design issues, and the long tradition of houseruling Traveller is largely a function of how broken the rules actually are. Even D&D never got houseruling so thoroughly embedded into the culture as Traveller did. OSR notwithstanding, balance is a desirable goal and one could write a substantial essay on CT's balance issues.

Note that I never mentioned doing a Dune setting, just generating someone young like Paul Atredies as a character. Yes, you could do Dune with Traveller by modifying the system. You could also do it with D&D 5e - and no doubt someone, somewhere has. Without hacking about the system in ways that might work for one specific campaign but aren't generally applicable, Traveller is not designed to generate characters who haven't spent several terms in some service or other. It's an assumption baked into the design of the character generation.

Yes you can do it, but claiming that being able to hack a system to fix its shortcomings is a virtue is not the strongest of endorsements. I don't mind Traveller, and I used to play it a lot, and I houseruled with the best, but I don't feel any nostalgia for it. It's a bit like my irrational indifference to the OSR. I'd happily play in a game of DCC or some such, but I can't bring myself to feel nostalgic for OD&D or a style of campaign some dude ran in 1974.

 

[Sharrow]

All of this can be fixed by houseruling and fixing up the design issues, and the long tradition of houseruling Traveller is largely a function of how broken the rules actually are. Even D&D never got houseruling so thoroughly embedded into the culture as Traveller did. OSR notwithstanding, balance is a desirable goal and one could write a substantial essay on CT's balance issues.

Funny you should say that - I've seen a lot more 'D&D' games with massive piles of house rules to the point where it's barely, if at all, recognisable as D&D than I have Traveller games. What I have seen is huge changes to the official Traveller setting, and of course there were huge flamewars over these back in the day, because for some reason people wanted to hack the official setting rather than brew their own, and then they wanted everyone else to agree that their version was the best.

 

[Nobby-W]

Funny you should say that - I've seen a lot more 'D&D' games with massive piles of house rules to the point where it's barely, if at all, recognisable as D&D than I have Traveller games. What I have seen is huge changes to the official Traveller setting, and of course there were huge flamewars over these back in the day, because for some reason people wanted to hack the official setting rather than brew their own, and then they wanted everyone else to agree that their version was the best.

The OTU is what people licensed the IP for. Going back to the harem protagonist theory, it is flexible and has a rich lore, but is sort of bland in a way that allows you to make it your own fairly easily. People wanted to run the setting with different systems to the point that some folks thought it was worth licensing the IP to bring out products to do that.

 

[AsenRG]

All of this can be fixed by houseruling and fixing up the design issues, and the long tradition of houseruling Traveller is largely a function of how broken the rules actually are. Even D&D never got houseruling so thoroughly embedded into the culture as Traveller did. OSR notwithstanding, balance is a desirable goal and one could write a substantial essay on CT's balance issues.

No need for the essay. I can pretty much predict how it would go, anyway...and I'd gladly agree, from some points of view Traveller is unbalanced.
The thing is, Traveller is best run with the same mindset that one would apply to OSR games. It's just got better rules.

Note that I never mentioned doing a Dune setting, just generating someone young like Paul Atredies as a character.

No, you didn't, but cryptkeeper did, and you replied to that.

Yes, you could do Dune with Traveller by modifying the system. You could also do it with D&D 5e - and no doubt someone, somewhere has. Without hacking about the system in ways that might work for one specific campaign but aren't generally applicable, Traveller is not designed to generate characters who haven't spent several terms in some service or other. It's an assumption baked into the design of the character generation.

Sure. And with CT Supplements 5+, you might get a skill for each year of each term, so you can very well start at 22 or 26...and that's not even counting "making a similar chargen for Barbarians".
I'd say that CT supplements should count as "generally applicable", too.

Yes you can do it, but claiming that being able to hack a system to fix its shortcomings is a virtue is not the strongest of endorsements.

...err, it wasn't meant to "fix shortcomings". It's just "adapting the system to a different setting with radically different assumptions".

I don't mind Traveller, and I used to play it a lot, and I houseruled with the best, but I don't feel any nostalgia for it. It's a bit like my irrational indifference to the OSR. I'd happily play in a game of DCC or some such, but I can't bring myself to feel nostalgic for OD&D or a style of campaign some dude ran in 1974.

I'm not feeling any nostalgia, either. I just like the simplicity and quick resolution the system provides.

Funny you should say that - I've seen a lot more 'D&D' games with massive piles of house rules to the point where it's barely, if at all, recognisable as D&D than I have Traveller games. What I have seen is huge changes to the official Traveller setting, and of course there were huge flamewars over these back in the day, because for some reason people wanted to hack the official setting rather than brew their own, and then they wanted everyone else to agree that their version was the best.

That's been my experience as well...but it's quite possible Nobby-W would have different experience.