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I know some feed readers like to include a little bit from the beginning of the post, so I'll put a spoiler warning here. I'm not expecting any participant to have a full knowledge of Tribe 8's metaplot or a perfect memory, as that would make me extremely hypocritical. It has, after all, been quite a few years since I actually read a Tribe 8 product; and my own memory is spotty in a lot of places. But I think it's safe to assume that anyone reading/participating should have either some level of setting/metaplot knowledge and/or a complete disregard for spoilers. Discussion welcome. Theories welcome. Hot takes welcome. Questions welcome. Etc. That said, I think this should be enough to make this post safe for most feed readers. So if you've read this far, know there will be spoilers. Heavy spoilers. You have been more than adequately warned.
The "je ne sais quois" thread led me to this post by TristramEvans, which inspired me to make this thread. First, because I feel odd necroing such an old thread. And second, so we could discuss things without those pesky spoiler tags.
The most prominent thing that came to mind is how Mary/Agnes predates and mirrors Rose Quartz/Steven Universe. The birth of Agnes even comes about by transferring Mary's heartstone - a literal rock of sorts - to the new body of Agnes, sans memories and all that other stuff that essentially made Mary herself. I'm not saying that Rebecca Sugar is familiar with the background of Tribe 8, but . . . it's certainly one hell of a coincidence if she's not. Similarly, the circumstances behind Agnes's birth allowed her to grow and change even though she was still technically a Fatima. I don't recall all of the details, but she does grow up quite a bit during the Cycle 1 metaplot, and IIRC she becomes less capricious and more empathetic as she does so. Also, IIRC, what Mary had been through, including her guilt over Joshua's death and the circumstances thereof, caused her to actually realize the great weakness of the Fatimas was their static, unwielding nature. She knew exactly what she was doing and why it was necessary in order to have any chance of rectifying what had gone wrong before she ever sought to "have a child."
I actually have a great respect for DP9 for laying out their entire intended metaplot, at least in broad strokes, in the 2e book. This game came out during the height of the metaplot boom, and so many studios kept their intentions closely guarded secrets until they were ready to release them. When DP9 realized that the 2e book was going to be the final Tribe 8 product ever, they decided to spill all the tea for the GMs to use(or not use) as they saw fit. Love it or hate it, at least they didn't just leave everyone hanging. It didn't kill the line. The line was already dead. I bet that later supplements were intended to introduce new system bits to deal with the new themes and challenges of the later Cycles, too.
We actually don't know much about what happened worldwide. I think it's too much to assume that only the Vimary uprising had any success. With the exception of Mary being from another region and the Hattani being known to have killed other Fatima(unnamed and never detailed as far as I know), they never really spoke of the world at large. I asked about it once and got one of those half-answers that was basically that other Fatima did exist but they never really felt the need to develop it further or go into detail because they really wanted to keep the game focused on the geographical area they had chosen. As far as their chosen metaplot was concerned, the Vimary tribes were going to be the ones to finally start the healing process. On a related note, the Hattani aren't even the only humans to have success on their own. Later in the metaplot, the Vimary tribes move to a new location and eventually come into contact with a king-led group . . . from farther west, I think. Memory fuzzy, sorry. And I believe they managed to have some measure of success without becoming monstrous themselves like the Hattani.
Later in the metaplot, the Z'bri chill out quite a bit. It varies by location and even by individual, but on the whole they do. The fact that the Baron was even able to broker and enforce a truce at all showed that they were at least beginning to regain their sanity prior to the deaths of Joshua and T'Bor. As they grow increasingly accustomed to physical reality, their minds clear up and . . . well, then they're people. Weird people, but people. I wouldn't be surprised, given the revelations in the 2e metaplot, if they intended for Z'Bri to be potential PCs in later Cycles. Some of course choose to remain monstrous of their own accord, sanity intact(or just broken in a different way), but many of them band together, both with themselves and, later on, even with humans. And they're key allies in eventually getting the spiritual healing process underway. Cycle 1 never gets close to that point, but . . . it was planned for later cycles to shake things up a lot.
Seeing the events regarding the Fold laid out like that - thanks, Tristram! - finally made one thing click for me. I always wondered why, if the Z'Bri and Fatimas were the same basic thing underneath their different bodies, the Z'Bri were so much more numerous. If the Z'Bri came across when the Fold was open and the Fatimas made their way through when the Fold was (at least mostly) closed, then it makes sense there would be fewer of the latter. I'm still not sure why individual Fatimas are, with possible rare exceptions such as T'Bor, so much more powerful than individual Z'Bri. My best guess is that they're made stronger(imbued with more energy by something, maybe the Goddess herself?) on the other side of the Fold because they need to be in order to break through, and they just remain strong even after reaching the physical side and taking on a technically non-living body. But that's just a guess.
I think that's enough to get us started. If you want to jump on board and don't mind spoilers(and if you've made it this far, you obviously don't), I'd love to see what you have to say! Welcome aboard!
The "je ne sais quois" thread led me to this post by TristramEvans, which inspired me to make this thread. First, because I feel odd necroing such an old thread. And second, so we could discuss things without those pesky spoiler tags.
The most prominent thing that came to mind is how Mary/Agnes predates and mirrors Rose Quartz/Steven Universe. The birth of Agnes even comes about by transferring Mary's heartstone - a literal rock of sorts - to the new body of Agnes, sans memories and all that other stuff that essentially made Mary herself. I'm not saying that Rebecca Sugar is familiar with the background of Tribe 8, but . . . it's certainly one hell of a coincidence if she's not. Similarly, the circumstances behind Agnes's birth allowed her to grow and change even though she was still technically a Fatima. I don't recall all of the details, but she does grow up quite a bit during the Cycle 1 metaplot, and IIRC she becomes less capricious and more empathetic as she does so. Also, IIRC, what Mary had been through, including her guilt over Joshua's death and the circumstances thereof, caused her to actually realize the great weakness of the Fatimas was their static, unwielding nature. She knew exactly what she was doing and why it was necessary in order to have any chance of rectifying what had gone wrong before she ever sought to "have a child."
I actually have a great respect for DP9 for laying out their entire intended metaplot, at least in broad strokes, in the 2e book. This game came out during the height of the metaplot boom, and so many studios kept their intentions closely guarded secrets until they were ready to release them. When DP9 realized that the 2e book was going to be the final Tribe 8 product ever, they decided to spill all the tea for the GMs to use(or not use) as they saw fit. Love it or hate it, at least they didn't just leave everyone hanging. It didn't kill the line. The line was already dead. I bet that later supplements were intended to introduce new system bits to deal with the new themes and challenges of the later Cycles, too.
We actually don't know much about what happened worldwide. I think it's too much to assume that only the Vimary uprising had any success. With the exception of Mary being from another region and the Hattani being known to have killed other Fatima(unnamed and never detailed as far as I know), they never really spoke of the world at large. I asked about it once and got one of those half-answers that was basically that other Fatima did exist but they never really felt the need to develop it further or go into detail because they really wanted to keep the game focused on the geographical area they had chosen. As far as their chosen metaplot was concerned, the Vimary tribes were going to be the ones to finally start the healing process. On a related note, the Hattani aren't even the only humans to have success on their own. Later in the metaplot, the Vimary tribes move to a new location and eventually come into contact with a king-led group . . . from farther west, I think. Memory fuzzy, sorry. And I believe they managed to have some measure of success without becoming monstrous themselves like the Hattani.
Later in the metaplot, the Z'bri chill out quite a bit. It varies by location and even by individual, but on the whole they do. The fact that the Baron was even able to broker and enforce a truce at all showed that they were at least beginning to regain their sanity prior to the deaths of Joshua and T'Bor. As they grow increasingly accustomed to physical reality, their minds clear up and . . . well, then they're people. Weird people, but people. I wouldn't be surprised, given the revelations in the 2e metaplot, if they intended for Z'Bri to be potential PCs in later Cycles. Some of course choose to remain monstrous of their own accord, sanity intact(or just broken in a different way), but many of them band together, both with themselves and, later on, even with humans. And they're key allies in eventually getting the spiritual healing process underway. Cycle 1 never gets close to that point, but . . . it was planned for later cycles to shake things up a lot.
Seeing the events regarding the Fold laid out like that - thanks, Tristram! - finally made one thing click for me. I always wondered why, if the Z'Bri and Fatimas were the same basic thing underneath their different bodies, the Z'Bri were so much more numerous. If the Z'Bri came across when the Fold was open and the Fatimas made their way through when the Fold was (at least mostly) closed, then it makes sense there would be fewer of the latter. I'm still not sure why individual Fatimas are, with possible rare exceptions such as T'Bor, so much more powerful than individual Z'Bri. My best guess is that they're made stronger(imbued with more energy by something, maybe the Goddess herself?) on the other side of the Fold because they need to be in order to break through, and they just remain strong even after reaching the physical side and taking on a technically non-living body. But that's just a guess.
I think that's enough to get us started. If you want to jump on board and don't mind spoilers(and if you've made it this far, you obviously don't), I'd love to see what you have to say! Welcome aboard!