Tribe 8 open discussion. [Heavy Spoilers]

Best Selling RPGs - Available Now @ DriveThruRPG.com

FreeGamer

Legendary Pubber
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
272
Reaction score
643
I know some feed readers like to include a little bit from the beginning of the post, so I'll put a spoiler warning here. I'm not expecting any participant to have a full knowledge of Tribe 8's metaplot or a perfect memory, as that would make me extremely hypocritical. It has, after all, been quite a few years since I actually read a Tribe 8 product; and my own memory is spotty in a lot of places. But I think it's safe to assume that anyone reading/participating should have either some level of setting/metaplot knowledge and/or a complete disregard for spoilers. Discussion welcome. Theories welcome. Hot takes welcome. Questions welcome. Etc. That said, I think this should be enough to make this post safe for most feed readers. So if you've read this far, know there will be spoilers. Heavy spoilers. You have been more than adequately warned.

The "je ne sais quois" thread led me to this post by TristramEvans TristramEvans, which inspired me to make this thread. First, because I feel odd necroing such an old thread. And second, so we could discuss things without those pesky spoiler tags.

The most prominent thing that came to mind is how Mary/Agnes predates and mirrors Rose Quartz/Steven Universe. The birth of Agnes even comes about by transferring Mary's heartstone - a literal rock of sorts - to the new body of Agnes, sans memories and all that other stuff that essentially made Mary herself. I'm not saying that Rebecca Sugar is familiar with the background of Tribe 8, but . . . it's certainly one hell of a coincidence if she's not. Similarly, the circumstances behind Agnes's birth allowed her to grow and change even though she was still technically a Fatima. I don't recall all of the details, but she does grow up quite a bit during the Cycle 1 metaplot, and IIRC she becomes less capricious and more empathetic as she does so. Also, IIRC, what Mary had been through, including her guilt over Joshua's death and the circumstances thereof, caused her to actually realize the great weakness of the Fatimas was their static, unwielding nature. She knew exactly what she was doing and why it was necessary in order to have any chance of rectifying what had gone wrong before she ever sought to "have a child."

I actually have a great respect for DP9 for laying out their entire intended metaplot, at least in broad strokes, in the 2e book. This game came out during the height of the metaplot boom, and so many studios kept their intentions closely guarded secrets until they were ready to release them. When DP9 realized that the 2e book was going to be the final Tribe 8 product ever, they decided to spill all the tea for the GMs to use(or not use) as they saw fit. Love it or hate it, at least they didn't just leave everyone hanging. It didn't kill the line. The line was already dead. I bet that later supplements were intended to introduce new system bits to deal with the new themes and challenges of the later Cycles, too.

We actually don't know much about what happened worldwide. I think it's too much to assume that only the Vimary uprising had any success. With the exception of Mary being from another region and the Hattani being known to have killed other Fatima(unnamed and never detailed as far as I know), they never really spoke of the world at large. I asked about it once and got one of those half-answers that was basically that other Fatima did exist but they never really felt the need to develop it further or go into detail because they really wanted to keep the game focused on the geographical area they had chosen. As far as their chosen metaplot was concerned, the Vimary tribes were going to be the ones to finally start the healing process. On a related note, the Hattani aren't even the only humans to have success on their own. Later in the metaplot, the Vimary tribes move to a new location and eventually come into contact with a king-led group . . . from farther west, I think. Memory fuzzy, sorry. And I believe they managed to have some measure of success without becoming monstrous themselves like the Hattani.

Later in the metaplot, the Z'bri chill out quite a bit. It varies by location and even by individual, but on the whole they do. The fact that the Baron was even able to broker and enforce a truce at all showed that they were at least beginning to regain their sanity prior to the deaths of Joshua and T'Bor. As they grow increasingly accustomed to physical reality, their minds clear up and . . . well, then they're people. Weird people, but people. I wouldn't be surprised, given the revelations in the 2e metaplot, if they intended for Z'Bri to be potential PCs in later Cycles. Some of course choose to remain monstrous of their own accord, sanity intact(or just broken in a different way), but many of them band together, both with themselves and, later on, even with humans. And they're key allies in eventually getting the spiritual healing process underway. Cycle 1 never gets close to that point, but . . . it was planned for later cycles to shake things up a lot.

Seeing the events regarding the Fold laid out like that - thanks, Tristram! - finally made one thing click for me. I always wondered why, if the Z'Bri and Fatimas were the same basic thing underneath their different bodies, the Z'Bri were so much more numerous. If the Z'Bri came across when the Fold was open and the Fatimas made their way through when the Fold was (at least mostly) closed, then it makes sense there would be fewer of the latter. I'm still not sure why individual Fatimas are, with possible rare exceptions such as T'Bor, so much more powerful than individual Z'Bri. My best guess is that they're made stronger(imbued with more energy by something, maybe the Goddess herself?) on the other side of the Fold because they need to be in order to break through, and they just remain strong even after reaching the physical side and taking on a technically non-living body. But that's just a guess.

I think that's enough to get us started. If you want to jump on board and don't mind spoilers(and if you've made it this far, you obviously don't), I'd love to see what you have to say! Welcome aboard!
 
One question: is it the Silhouette system? Or are they using different ones for 1e and 2e:tongue:?

Somehow, their metaplot reminds me of Kuro (no, it's not just both of them using d6 dicepools AFAICT). It also helps that the solution they've applied in 2e is also my suggestion for resolving the issues with said game's campaign:shade:.
 
One question: is it the Silhouette system? Or are they using different ones for 1e and 2e:tongue:?
AFAICT, both editions use a version of the Silhouette system. From the other thread I didn't necro, the 2e version sounds like it's mostly the same, but more complicated.
Somehow, their metaplot reminds me of Kuro (no, it's not just both of them using d6 dicepools AFAICT). It also helps that the solution they've applied in 2e is also my suggestion for resolving the issues with said game's campaign:shade:.
If you're talking about this, then yeah, I could see the premise as stated on that page being a mysterious occurrence prior to the Z'Bri invasion. I'm not sure of any of the details inside of the book, as I don't have Kuro myself(just looked up its description on DTRPG), but that would be an interesting setup. World on the verge of nuclear war, mysterious disappearance of a nuke(perhaps the same thing happens worldwide, and maybe not just with nukes?), and odd supernatural happenings. Sounds like it could be a calm(relatively speaking) before the storm kind of thing. And then the Fire Nat . . . I mean, the Z'Bri, attacked!
 
One question: is it the Silhouette system? Or are they using different ones for 1e and 2e:tongue:?
Slightly different versions of Silhouette. First Edition was a tweak of the “early“ Silhouette rules, while Second Edition was based on the Silhouette CORE rulebook, which ... I would not recommend. :smile:
Given the choice, I’d use different rules completely - Silhouette was a good set of wargaming rules, so it was not well-suited for the kind of free-form storytelling that Tribe 8 inspires.
 
Tribe 8 is a great game and the Children of Lilith and Trial by Fire books are superb. Unfortunately, the quality started dropping off at the point as DP9 shed its core creative team.
 
I really liked Silhouette for Tribe 8. It was fast and easy to use and the fact that the magic rules were quite freeform seemed appropriate.

The only thing I would look to have added from SilCore was the reduction of 10 Attributes to 5.
 
This was one setting, that I was "Hrms, sounds neat, but what do I really do with it?" kind of reaction (plus at the time I felt the book lacked enough character illustrations for a then-modern game, maybe not fair, just my taste.)
 
I first heard about Tribe 8 while I was playing in an Earthdawn campaign and thought I saw a number of similarities... post-apocalyptic fantasy, horrific supernatural invaders, survivors living in small enclaves. This led to me grabbing all the Tribe 8 books at a store clearance, but I've still never played the game.
 
This was one setting, that I was "Hrms, sounds neat, but what do I really do with it?" kind of reaction (plus at the time I felt the book lacked enough character illustrations for a then-modern game, maybe not fair, just my taste.)
I'll be honest. I feel kind of the same way. All of the truly important events seem to involve preordained metaplot-relevant characters, often far above the pay grade of most PCs. I really do think it's a cool metaplot, and I loved reading over it, but . . . this was an issue with a lot of game lines produced during the 90s/00s metaplot craze. There are a lot of smaller adventures you can have, sure, but they had these huge setting changes planned and it's like . . . how exactly are your PCs going to have any real influence on things? I dunno.
I first heard about Tribe 8 while I was playing in an Earthdawn campaign and thought I saw a number of similarities... post-apocalyptic fantasy, horrific supernatural invaders, survivors living in small enclaves. This led to me grabbing all the Tribe 8 books at a store clearance, but I've still never played the game.
I grabbed a PDF bundle way back in the day, which is how I read most of this stuff. But yeah, you might be onto something. A lot of the details are different, but I wouldn't be surprised if, in the broad strokes, one was somewhat inspired by the other(I think ED came first, though I wouldn't swear to it). Also, I've never gotten to play Tribe 8 either, though I've wanted to.
 
A lot of the details are different, but I wouldn't be surprised if, in the broad strokes, one was somewhat inspired by the other(I think ED came first, though I wouldn't swear to it).
Oh... I wasn't thinking one influenced the other so much as Tribe 8 seemed more focused on a darker version of a similar set-up. Earthdawn is a great setting, but still too 'high fantasy' for me... at least the way the group I was in played it... vs. the 'Fantasy Fallout' potential I was seeing in it.
The only thing that bugged me about the Tribe 8 books was the penchant for writing big chunks of them in-character... which is fine for groking the feel of the setting but less so for digging out specifics later on.
 
This was one setting, that I was "Hrms, sounds neat, but what do I really do with it?" kind of reaction (plus at the time I felt the book lacked enough character illustrations for a then-modern game, maybe not fair, just my taste.)
Was this from the corebook alone? I ask as the RPG had one of the most extensive dynamic looks at what you do with it, with over 50% of the line devoted to evolution of the setting.

Also, the core book also had a ton (30-40) of NPC portraits, each one could be inspiration for a PC. The larger pieces tended to be more impressionistic, but it didn't lack in character art.
 
I think that DP9 hyperfocused on one small corner of the planet as the setting is the best gift they could have given in regards to answering the question "what do I do?" My suggestion for all those faced with that question is to find a map of your hometown, and then trace ruins over it, come up with a new name that's a distortion or half-memory of it's current name, andd populate it with your own Z'Bri, your own Fatimas, and then just see what the players do. Feed them hints about what's going on, and allow them to come up with their own version of salvation.

Do they overthrow the Fatimas and then weaponize the heartstones against the ZBri?
Do they strike a deal with the ZBri to defeat the Fatimas?
Do they try to re-open The Fold?
What can they accomplish with Synthesis?
Is there a secret enclave of Nomads they encounter that train them in spiritual warfare?
Do they start their own religion, and "birth" a new Fatima of the 8th Tribe?
Or do they reject "magic" entirely and adopt the ways of the Keepers, discovering old technology that creatures of spirit have no defense against?
If Z'Bri and Fatimas are both in fact the "angels" of the setting, what is a demon like?
The Fatimas and Z'Bri of Vimary are clearly patterned on Catholic mythology - what would Fatimas and Z'Bri patterned on other religions or mythologies be like?
What about a crossover with Heavy Gear? Mecha vs Z'Bri?

Once you step outside of the small setting of the game, you literally have an entire world of possibilities.
 
Was this from the corebook alone? I ask as the RPG had one of the most extensive dynamic looks at what you do with it, with over 50% of the line devoted to evolution of the setting.

Also, the core book also had a ton (30-40) of NPC portraits, each one could be inspiration for a PC. The larger pieces tended to be more impressionistic, but it didn't lack in character art.

Yeah, it was from the core book, and I like art that shows things happening, a portrait of an NPC I may never use isn't as good as action pieces, or even full-body pictures of the setting's historical characters. Of course the same goes for NPC's in general in an adventure beyond those necessary to either instigate or aid the characters, because my gaming focuses more on the PCs and not the NPC of the game. This is a problem of the Providence RPG, lots of characters the player characters will most likely ever interact with, or be useful, filling spaces that could be used for other important bits of information.

I mean yes, I use NPC's but I prefer them to be tied to whatever adventures/personal relationships, etc, I can manage when running the game. I'm not really throwing stones here now, just mentioning how I used to feel. It seemed to waste words telling stuff in character and art that said nothing about what people are doing/can do/should be doing. I'm guilty of this with games too, although it like a lot of things vary. There is little art in High Valor, but what there is usually shows character types, and characters doing stuff. With a piece or two of locations/monsters.

H&S1E had a lot of NPC villains with art, but I'd intended people to use those as examples with write-ups of "how do I build someone who does X/Y/Z" rather than drop them into a campaign--and that was a mistake so I've gone a different way this time.
 
That’s cool.

The NPCs in Tribe 8 were pretty critical to the setting though and they were all tied to the scenarios released. Tribe 8 is unusual its presentation which got across its particular mystical post apocalyptic vibe effectively. It is presented in a first person manner as that is how history is taught. Its small as people don’t travel far and the NPCs presented are a large chunk of the community around the PCs. The game focusses as much on those NPCs as places as it tells a story about that community, it’s conflicts, and it’s growth.
 
Last edited:
This is one of those 'would love to run or play one day' games. Does the ruleset stand up well?
 
This is one of those 'would love to run or play one day' games. Does the ruleset stand up well?

I would probably be using it as my go-to if not for Phaserip. It pushes all the same buttons - quick, intuitive, falls into the background during play, resolves combats fast, defining an NPC takes moments. I'd basically put it on the same level with Savage Worlds, WEG D6, and the Outlaws of the Water Margin system.
 
I've run probably a half dozen short campaigns of Tribe 8 over the years, always using a different rule system (Everway, D6, Over the Edge, etc.). Silhouette never clicked for me. I love the look and feel of the setting. The spiritual (vs. material) post-apocalypse is pretty unique, and the Z-bri make great villains, although the main villains in most of my games were other (tribal) humans. One of my favorite settings of all time.

I went on a family trip to Montreal many years ago, and spent the entire time taking pictures as research for T8 :smile:

John
 
This led to me grabbing all the Tribe 8 books at a store
Also, I've never gotten to play Tribe 8 either, though I've wanted to.
This seems to be very much a thing with Tribe 8. I'm running a game of 1st ed elsewhere, but have never played it - and neither have any of the players. Even the ones with the rulebook. From the on site discussion, lots of people own it, love the look of it, but never actually play it. Too weird, maybe?
 
From the on site discussion, lots of people own it, love the look of it, but never actually play it. Too weird, maybe?
Ultimately for me, yes. Even taking Tristam‘s suggestion and rewriting it for my hometown (Pittsburgh could be adapted very easily), I simply have no idea what I’d do with it.
 
Children of Lilith is a pretty great start for Tribe 8 campaigns IME. Just grab it and jump in.
 
Yeah, I don't know what the disconnect is. You start the game with implicit motiivations and in a desperate situation.

But some genres just don't "click" with some players I guess.
 
Ultimately for me, yes. Even taking Tristam‘s suggestion and rewriting it for my hometown (Pittsburgh could be adapted very easily), I simply have no idea what I’d do with it.
Yeah, I don't know what the disconnect is. You start the game with implicit motiivations and in a desperate situation.

But some genres just don't "click" with some players I guess.
Genre may be part of the problem. It's not traditional post-apocalyptic, not traditional fantasy, so won't appeal to purists of either genre. I like it, and post-apoc is very much not my thing.

Possibly the implicit motivations are a problem too, but there's no reason the PCs have to be Fallen. My players are, but we discussed prior to starting whether they wanted a game that was a short trip to Hom and settling in to Fallen politics, or a long and dangerous trip to Hom - and they chose the latter.
 
From the on site discussion, lots of people own it, love the look of it, but never actually play it. Too weird, maybe?
Well I didn't buy it for the art (though it's grown on me). As with a lot of games that I've bought but never ran, it was mined for ideas and such. I do like post-apocalypse settings and prefer them on the weird/supernatural side, so my homebrew fantasy setting has an area that's got a lot of its influence going on... though I never quite figured out how to make use of the Fatimas and had tribes of survivors with a different rationale.

If I were to run it straight, I think I'd set it someplace like Bakersfield... already a bit apocalyptic and cut off from the world. Los Angeles being the huge pile of ruins in the south.
 
I'd give it a try. Honestly, I like PA games, in fact, use Atomic Highway for my weird time and twisty setting Purgatory Road, which may or may not be supernatural, but is anachronistic. 1950's cars--modern cars can be found in perfect condition, others rusting hulks of vehicles that should not be, strange planes, alien looking cars, and in addition to mutant a class of mutants, or something called demons. Plus Hell-Engines, engines powered by the reality of the road and the soul of the driver, and the Ghost Train which claims some of the dead...
 
Yeah, I don't know what the disconnect is. You start the game with implicit motiivations and in a desperate situation.
I think for me it's the way you start out as outcasts in an already-desperate situation. Which leaves me wondering how your characters meaningfully affect the overall plot/setting without stretching believability too far. It's kind of the same issue I had with the older World of Darkness stuff - the metaplot stuff was what drew me to the games, but the characters generally couldn't affect much. I wasn't interested in the petty politicking of Vampire; I only really cared about the whole Gehenna and related metaplot stuff(not the best example, but the first that springs to mind). I keep seeing Children of Lilith mentioned - are there any good examples in that of your characters getting meaningfully involved in the metaplot stuff? That would be pretty awesome.
 
I'd give it a try. Honestly, I like PA games, in fact, use Atomic Highway for my weird time and twisty setting Purgatory Road, which may or may not be supernatural, but is anachronistic. 1950's cars--modern cars can be found in perfect condition, others rusting hulks of vehicles that should not be, strange planes, alien looking cars, and in addition to mutant a class of mutants, or something called demons. Plus Hell-Engines, engines powered by the reality of the road and the soul of the driver, and the Ghost Train which claims some of the dead...
Sounds like Deadlands: Atomic HIghway, which is to say 50 pounds of awesome in a 5 pound bag.
 
I think for me it's the way you start out as outcasts in an already-desperate situation. Which leaves me wondering how your characters meaningfully affect the overall plot/setting without stretching believability too far.
There's no need to start the PCs as newly Fallen, though, or have a large-scale plot. They can be established in Hom and furthering the goals of the Eighth Tribe, or persuing personal goals or vendettas. The party I'm running, some of them have larger goals tied to why they were cast out (unite the Tribes, find out what really happened to Joshua), but the immediate goal is live long enough to get to Hom in the first place.
 
Banner: The best cosmic horror & Cthulhu Mythos @ DriveThruRPG.com
Back
Top