Tribe 8 - Who has run/played it? GIVE US YOUR SECRETS!!!

tenbones

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Okay so in the Post-Apocalyptic Game thread I saw @TristramEvans made a pretty emphatic endorsement with an intriguing blurb about Tribe 8. I've heard of it by name... but knew *nothing* about it. So I looked into it... and was extremely intrigued, and bought it.

Holy jeebus is this cool! Who has run it or played it? And tell us about it!
 

Skywalker

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I ran the first Campaign book, Children of Lilith, and it is in my top 3 GMing is experiences. Tribe 8 is great. There are only two things to be aware of:

1. The setting material is written in first person and the campaign books are more high level than your usual adventure book. These tended to be the two things people bounced off of. The second edition did provide a summary of the setting secrets and whilst good, I liked the setting better when the secrets were unknown.

2. The material is the vision of a small group of people. As such, when that group disbanded toward the end of the first Cycle, it really shows. They did finish the first Cycle, which is cool, and set up the second one, but it’s a shame the original team didn’t see the first one through. The second edition also went on the outline what the other Cycles were intended to cover.
 

TristramEvans

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At school, so can't go into a lot of detail until later, but some general thoughts:

I really like the Silhouette system - it's simple, streamlined, and very easy on GMs & players, so it quickly "fades into the background", while remaining robust enough to provide straightforward resolution. It's in my top ten favourite \RPG systems, many of which I consider almost on par with MSH(FASERIP) and would probably use instead if that dfidn't exist (Savage Worlds and D6 being other examples).

Along those lines, the magic system hits a really sweet balance between a playable system, but still loose/interpretive enough to still "feel magical" (if that makes sense). It at once reinforces the setting's themes and provides a means for players to express their character's unique outlook.

The initial set-up is really sdtraightforward and understandable while at the same time providing new players with an instant understanding of their place in the world and their background as tied to the setting. Each player belonged to a tribe that was directly ruled by the physical manifestation of one of their Gods - "Fatimas", and as such grew up focusing on those traits that embody that Fatima, but at some point were cast out for going against the grain in some way, or displeasing their god. In the case of Agnes, the child, this could be as simple as losing (or winning) a game of hide and seek or tag that upset her in some way. So the players are often from very unique backgrounds, but all share a common "origin event" (to use comicbook terms) that binds them together and gives them a common goal/struggle.

The Z'Bri are fantastic villains, disturbing monstrosities that are the exact opposites of the Fatimas in some ways, and their mirrors in others (there's a good reason for this, when I get home I'll do a spoiler blocked post about the game's mysteries and the origins of the Z'Bri and Fatimas).

The game ostensibly takes place in post-apocalypse Canada, which as a Canuck is pretty cool, but it's also easy as pie to relocate to any other place in the world (such as the gaming group's hometown or nearby area).

Going to back to the system briefly, the game's stats are "zero average", which makes it very easy to define NPCs on the fly, as you basically just assign scores to any way in which the characters differ from the norm.
 

K_Peterson

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I ran Tribe 8 about 16 years ago for my gaming group. We played through an introductory adventure (which may have been included in the GM screen or Companion??) which segues into Children of Lillith. I think we played a session or 2 into CoL before a player had to leave the gaming group, and the short campaign was brought to a halt.

I enjoyed it, and my players seemed to like it. I had one player who tried to game the Silhouette system and create the ultimate warrior, with jacked attributes, skills in just the right areas, and low stats and drawbacks in what he considered useless areas. But, he seriously neglected the Psyche attribute, or any others that related to mental or psychic strength. So, it was a little sad (not really) when he became psychically dominated and taken out by a Z'Bri in one of the early sessions.

I'm going to have to look through it again some time. All I've got is the 1st edition core book left on my shelf.
 

K_Peterson

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1. The setting material is written in first person and the campaign books are more high level than your usual adventure book. These tended to be the two things people bounced off of. The second edition did provide a summary of the setting secrets and whilst good, I liked the setting better when the secrets were unknown.
I agree. I prefer the secrets and the biased perspectives of the 1st edition because it made the setting more open to interpretation than laid bare for the GM.

While I owned T8 2nd edition I never read the setting secrets it revealed. I guess because I didn't really care to know the answers.
 

K_Peterson

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The game ostensibly takes place in post-apocalypse Canada, which as a Canuck is pretty cool, but it's also easy as pie to relocate to any other place in the world (such as the gaming group's hometown or nearby area).
Relocating it would be entertaining. When I ran T8 last, I kept it in Canada. But if I ever get around to running it again, it'd be fun to place it in my own backyard....

Center the campaign in my neighborhood in We'tle (or whatever tweaked name I can come up with), with forays into the ruined remains of Seathl - with its crumbling, Z'Bi infested skyscapers, and debris-strewn shipyards.
 

tenbones

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My hype-meter is intensifying. There is a very strong vibe of R. Scott Bakker's "Prince of Nothing" series as I read this game... it's some dark stuff!
 
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TristramEvans

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One downside I'll say is that it is extremely frustrating to google because it apparently shares the name of some obscure music band, lol.
 

TristramEvans

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So, another thing, book recommendations..

The game is completely playable just from the corebook, so nothing else is necessary, but the gameline has some really good expansions of material

Obviously, if you want to play out the big cycle (Tribe 8's answer to The Great Pendragon Campaign or The Enemy Within), there's that specific catalogue (it may be useful in that case to dig up one of the online lists of the order, because damned if I can remember). But otherwise, here's what's on offer -

The Weaver Screen & Guide - (NOT RECOMMENDED) It has an introductory adventure that leads into the metaplot cycle, not too much besides. Some scant advice for the GM and some NPCs. I'd say only worth it for a completist.

The Tribe 8 Companion - (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) more crunchy bitz, for players who enjoy those. Has some really good clarifications on running the magic system, and fleshes out the setting mythos quite bit.

The Vimary Sourcebook - (RECOMMENDED) This is basically the "setting book" for the game. Not essential, (especially if you are relocating the game), but still a lot of useful information, very evocative and provides more detail on the Fatimas and Tribes that has wide applicability.

Horrors of the Z'Bri - (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) Before this book, the |Z'Bri are largely shrouded in rumour and mystery, this one really gets into the dark avenues of the setting's primary antagonists (and when I say dark, I'm talking Kult or LOTFP levels, not for kids or the squeemish). This is my personal favourite supplement for the game.

Adrift on the River of Dream - (MILDLY RECOMMENDED) This is essentially the "magic sourcebook" for the game. Not in any way necessary, but if you really want to make Weaving a robust part of your game, this book has you covered. Also is sort of the companion setting book to Vimary, in that the Dream is kinda the other half of the setting (in the same way as Arcadia to Changeling: The Dreaming).

Tribe 8 2nd Edition Player's Handbook (NOT RECOMMENDED) - this was the book that killed the gameline. Which isn't to say it's bad, or even totally it's fault, as there was a lot of factors, obviously. But the big difference with 2nd Ed is that DP9 tried to do a settingless generic 2.0 Silhouette system book, and then all the Setting books as supplements drawing on this (like nWoD). I didn't care for the changes to the system in 2.0 (which was basically just "more crunch"), and this means that unlike the first edition core, it is not a self-contained game. That said, the approach was interesting. As mentioned previously, they took the entire metaplot as it played out over first edition and laid it all bare, and then provided a set-up for the world in the aftermath. I didn't find the new premise for the game at all compelling though (I could see it working as part of a longer chronicle, in a Gurenn Lagann kinda way, but then I envy anyone able to sustain a Tribe 8 campaign for the years that seems to imply). If you just want the secrets, there's other ways to get them, so I mostly would say skip this one.
 
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Skywalker

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My recommendations would be similarly except for me Vimary would be the book I would recommend over all other books. Its a great book and essential reading. I also found the Tribe 8 Companion to be only mildly recommended. It does provide some additional crunch but it was patchy and I found it better to stick with the corebook for the most part.

I would also highly recommend Children of Lilith, even if you are not planning to run the campaign arcs as it does a great job of showing the RPG in a dynamic way and is an excellent series of events to inspire your own stories.

As for 2nd Edition, I agree its not recommended. However, I think its harsh to say that it killed the gameline. Dream Pod 9 had already given up on all of its RPGs by the time this came out and it was never intended to be much more than a capstone on the line and a means to release the balance of the secrets.
 

TristramEvans

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Well, to explain my choices -

I totally agree Vimary is a fantastic book and well worth a read. But mostly, IME, only for the GM. I dfon't know about anyone else, but trying to get my players to do extraneous reading for a game is akin to pulling teeth, so while I understood the setting a lot better after reading Vimary, a lot of that never passed beyond me to my players. I thought the corebook gives a good enough overview of what life was like before being outcast for players to buy-in to the game, and so Vimary was for me, more of a joy of reading experience than contributing a lot to my games. But I appreciate the other PoV, absolutely.

As for the companion, what I liked about it was not so much that it provided expanded options for combat and characters, rather I saw it as an example of how the system could be expanded and in what ways, seeing it as a guide for "hacking the system" to an extent. But the system in the core is absoluetely complete, and I can see considering that superfluous. I did, though, really think the clarification on the magic system was essential.
 

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I browsed to DP9's website this afternoon, and was rather dismayed to see that they've pretty much wiped any reference to Rpgs away. I mean, Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, and Tribe 8 have been "dead" for more than a decade... but it would be nice if they'd kept old pdf resources around at least.

I could use a Tribe 8 character sheet pdf, or any other pdf sheets for that game. I'm glad that I downloaded and stashed away Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles sheets years ago.
 

Simlasa

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Several years ago, a local store was dumping all the books for cheap, which was hard to resist... so I didn't.
We played a few sessions of it before returning to straight fantasy... but I did mine it thoroughly for ideas that got incorporated into a homebrew setting.
One thing that makes the Tribe 8 books tricky is that they're often written in-character... like the Z'Bri book. Makes it harder to find specific bits.
The illustration style might put off some folks who need more solid representational depictions of things.
Definitely something I'd like to play again someday.
 

Chris Brady

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The game ostensibly takes place in post-apocalypse Canada, which as a Canuck is pretty cool, but it's also easy as pie to relocate to any other place in the world (such as the gaming group's hometown or nearby area).
It takes place in Montreal, Quebec. The map is a modified version of the city and outlying region. The arrow symbol is actually for the underground rail system, AKA Le Metro.
 

TristramEvans

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lol, I was kinda trying to avoid giving that away, as it was quite a pleasure when I worked it out back when I first ran the game.

But yeah, unfortunately despite our best efforts, Quebec is still a part of Canada.
 

Chris Brady

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Hey, I was born there! :hehe: Sorry, but it was very easy to spot for me, I didn't think it was meant to be a secret. My bad.
 

TristramEvans

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Hey, I was born there! :hehe: Sorry, but it was very easy to spot for me, I didn't think it was meant to be a secret. My bad.
No worries, not really much of a secret in comparison to most of the game's mysteries I suppose (for a Canadian)
 

Chris Brady

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As for the other secrets, it's been so long that I don't remember them. Not that my memory has ever been described as decent to begin with. :tongue:
 

Skywalker

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I visited there about 10 years ago. I had many of the Tribe 8 locations on my itinerary :smile:
 

TristramEvans

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So, the secrets of the Tribe 8 setting..well, some of them, the nature of the game and it's limited geographical focus means that there's actually still lots of little mysteries, but this explains the current situation. None of this is necessary to Know to run the game at all, and when it comes to
RPGs, I'm of the fervent belief that "cannon" is a meaningless term outside of any individual GM's inclinations, but I do think Tribe 8's background is really well thought-out, creative, and makes sense....(unlike , say, "The Truth" behind SLA Industries).

It's also worth noting that these secrets are still from the perspective of the characters in the Tribe 8 game, and so do not necessarily represent "objective truth". This is all paraphrased in my own words too, rather than a copy & paste from the 2e , which is a bit dry and only hits on a few highlights in it's summary.

The first major setting conceit is that there is the world of spirit and the physical world, separated by The Fold. At the beginning of time, mankind was aware of both, and they co-existed in harmony. Ancient shamans and animistic priests were able to communicate with the spirit world, and facilitated relations between the two. But as time went on, mankind turned it's back on the Spirit World, more and more becoming mired in the concerns of physical reality, and the spirit world grew more and more distant. This culminated in...something. It's possible a more conventional "apocalypse", such as nuclear war, maybe even the advent of AI, no one knows for sure within the setting (or if the do, they have not said).

Either way, at some point The Goddess, Tribe 8's interpretation of the Godhead or creator deity, attempted to rectify things, to heal the rift and set mankind back on the correct path by sending various emissaries from the spirit world through the fold. whether these were purely spirits, the setting equivalent of "angels", or ghosts who had been dead so long they no longer remembered their physical life, depends on who you ask, but either way, something went horribly wrong.

These emissaries, manifesting in the physical world, taking on (or inhabited) bodies for the first time, were suddenly overwhelmed by physical sensation. The experience was too much for them, consuming them and driving them mad, and drunk on these new physical feelings, both pleasure and pain, they became what are now called the Z'Bri. Engaging in a horrific planetwide orgy of death and destruction, this invasion ended finally the World Before. The Fold was closed, in response, possibly from our side by a mysterious other faction referred to as "Gurus", those who had retained knowledge of the Spirit World and had unsuccessfully throughout history attempted to guide mankind back on the right path.

(The Gurus are only occasionally mentioned, sometimes called "Nomads", and their nature is somewhat unclear, as some describe them as also emissaries from the Spirit World, but who somehow escaped the fate of the Z'bri. The more likely explanation is that the Gurus were spiritually-awakened humans throughout history, prophets and mystical leaders. Either way they are largely gone from the setting after the point that they closed the Fold in the wake of the Z'bri invasion, and it's assumed this final act was accomplished primarily by sacrificing themselves )

Humanity's attempts to fend off these invaders failed, utterly and the majority of survivors were rounded up in camps to serve as the Z'Bri's slaves and playthings. The few to escape this fate hid away, eventually becoming the Keepers and Scavengers. But as the Fold was closed, the Z'bri werre made vulnerable, depending on physical bodies to inhabit for continued survival. Moreover, the ghosts of those who died at this point forward were no longer able to pass on to the Spirit World, but were trapped in physical reality, becoming the wandering damned. The world became a literal hell on earth.

How much time passed like this is unknown. It's possible it was centuries, but the presence of technological relics retained by the Keepers suggest it probably wasn't more than a few generations.

At some point, The Goddess sent a new wave of emissaries that broke through the Fold to rescue mankind and repair the world. To avoid the fate of the Z'Bri, instead of taking physical bodies, these spirits crafted bodies of inanimate material for themselves, becoming the Fatimas. Though they successfully avoided the madness of the Z'Bri, there was negative effects that became apparent later.

The Fatimas appeared in camps around the world to lead revolts. As far as is known though, all of these failed except for the one at Vimary. In fact, one of the Fatimas of Tribe 8, Mary the Forgiver, was the lone survivor of the failed revolt at Capal*. Even the Vimary revolt was going to fail because the Fatimas were no match for the great Z'Bri lord T'Bor. The difference was that the Fatimas at Vimary realized they needed an approach besides victory through force. They were either convinced of this by, or managed to convince, The Baron, T'Bor's second in command.

However, Joshua, the only male Fatima at Vimary, refused to accept any compromise. For him, it was victory or death. And so the other Fatima's betrayed him, just as The Baron betrayed T'Bor, and in the midst of the final battle, both were abandoned by their sides and left to kill each other.

At this point I have to bring up another setting conceit that was revealed in the course of the gameline. When a Z'Bri or Fatima's physical form is destroyed, they leave behind what's referred to as a "Heartstone", a sort of rock or gem that is a condensed store of their essence.

When Joshua and T'Bor destroyed one another, the secret peace that was reached between the Z'Bri and the Fatimas was secured or finalized by The Baron taking Joshua's Heartstone, while the Fatima's took T'Bor's. Henceforth, the Fatimas and the freed Tribes are given the southern Islands, while the Z'Bri retain control of the rest of the area.

Which is about the status quo when the game "begins", with one final caveat. I mentioned that the Fatima's artificial bodies prevented them from succumbing to the madness of the Z'Bri, but there were still unintended consequences, almost the opposite. It left them cold, un-empathetic, self-absorbed, and inflexible. And this would manifest as they exerted control over the Tribes. This would be particularly bad when combined with the guilt and denial over their betrayal of Joshua. The guilt consumed Mary the Forgiver, causing her to seek out "The Guides", students of the Gurus/Nomads who retained their Old Arts of Magic (not synthesis or Sundering, but a sort of balance between the two) . The Guides facilitated her "death", and, utilizing her Heartstone, her subsequent rebirth as Agnes the Child, free of her former memories and guilt, This offended the other Fatimas so much that they branded the guides "Heretics" and ordered them killed on sight.

And that's basically the "true" story of what leads up to the setting as presented in the corebook. If there's interest, I can also go over the course of the metaplot of the first edition's adventure cycles, and where that leaves the world circa 2nd edition.


* - I mentioned all the other known revolts failed, but this isn't strictly true, although they all went quite differently. The one in Hattan, for example (making up what was once New York and New Jersey) actually involved the rise of a group of adept humans known as the Mistresses, who defeated both the Z'Bri and Fatimas by utilizing Heartstones, and afterwards, wielding the power of the Heartstones from the fallen "gods", they built a new empire and ushered in a reign of blood and terror even more viscerally grotesque than that of the Z’bri
[/spoiler}
 
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Skywalker

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That is cool. I hope we get a revival of interest. It’s such a great game for DP9 to be sitting on.
 

TristramEvans

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If they allow Hardcover for PoD, I'd definitely be tempted to splurge and upgrade my collection. I hope they continue, so far the ones planned are pretty easy to find on the secondhand market, it's stuff like the Horrors of the Z'bri and Adrift on the Rier of Dream that go for silly money and make it hard for new people trying to get into the game.
 

Skywalker

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I didn't even think about hardcover POD. I have everything released but would be tempted to upgrade as well :quiet:
 

K_Peterson

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I downloaded the cleaned-up T8 core on 11/2, and it's a nice improvement.

The only thing I've got left of my old T8 collection is the hardcover core book, and the Keeper's Screen. With my PDFs of Horrors of the Z'Bri and Adrift of the River of Dreams, I'm not sure I'd want to replenish the near-complete collection of T8 I used to have. The heavy metaplot in the adventures, and the exhaustive detail of the tribes don't really interest me now like they did in the past.
 

TristramEvans

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I ran the full metaplot cycle adventure once - think it took almost two years altogether. Like the GPC, I imagine it's a once in a lifetime experience. But Tribe 8 remains one of my favourite fully-realized gameworlds. In the times I've ran it since, I've ditched Vimary altogether, and set it in a post-apocalypse version of the area my game group was living at the time.
 

K_Peterson

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The Weaver Screen & Guide - (NOT RECOMMENDED) It has an introductory adventure that leads into the metaplot cycle, not too much besides. Some scant advice for the GM and some NPCs. I'd say only worth it for a completist.
I've got pretty fond memories of the Weaver's Screen, and not for the GM advice or the screen. I actually liked the introductory adventure quite a bit on its own.

(It's been 15 years so I'm trying to recall some of the details), but I think it focused on a market within a "downtown" area, and that there were Z'Bri described in a nearby skyscraper. That intro fueled my imagination - and though I did take the adventure into the metaplot of the next published adventure - I think it would be great to spin-off into material that I designed.

One of the memories I had about running the adventure is that I had a player who did his best to break the Silhouette system, and build the perfect fighter. He was amazing in combat, but he gimped intelligence stats and his psyche. So, when he encountered the Z'Bri in the adventure he was powerless to being dominated... and that's where the adventure ended for him.
 

K_Peterson

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I ran the full metaplot cycle adventure once - think it took almost two years altogether
That's impressive. Which books were included in the full metaplot cycle?

When I ran T8 around 2005, I got through the intro adventure and some (or all?) of Children of Lilith (I think that's the one the intro adventure leads into). Wasn't a bad time.
 

TristramEvans

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That's impressive. Which books were included in the full metaplot cycle?
There's an optional introductory adventure that came with the GM screen, that leads directly into Children of Lilith

then, in order, it's

Trial By Fire
Warrior Unbound
Broken Pact
Vimary Burns
Revanche
Liberation

The last 3 required a significant amount of reworking, I recall, as the original creative team had departed and the new writers weren't as adept at placing the player characters at the centre of events. Having a good understanding of the metaplot from the 2e player's handbook helped a lot with running those.
 

Skywalker

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Children of Lilith and Trial by Fire are a superb combination. I only ran Children of Lilith and it took us 40 sessions to finish. Not bad for a 98 page book.
 

The Mad Hatter

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If I didn't already have an entire collection of Tribe 8, I would probably have gotten the books I was missing as POD.

Tribe 8 is one of those games, I haven't ever run. It always seemed so daunting, to try and explain the setting to someone else.
But I kept buying the books, because I really liked reading them. I loved that almost everything about the setting, was explained from the perspective of characters in the setting.
 

Brock Savage

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Hey guys the Tribe 8 pdfs are on sale at Drive Thru. I am gonna pick some up thanks to this thread.
 

zarion

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Okay, so, this is...interesting. The system is relatively easy to use. The setting is still making my mind spin, though I've only read the core book thus far. Thanks to TristramEvans for the little spoiler upthread as it helped me piece some things together as the writing style in the corebook leaves something to be desired for me. I guess I shall attempt to digest the setting book next, though from what everyone says the campaign book is where it's at so I might read that first. Hopefully I don't get too many nightmares from this one!
 

TristramEvans

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It's mostly written from an in-character PoV, which I appreciate but does make it less accessible than more traditional RPG presentations.
 

TristramEvans

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looks like PoD options are up for a few of the books.

Unfortunately, no Hardcover option, which means I'll be hanging on to my originals, but at least it's cheaper than most ebay prices
 
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