Tunnels & Trolls acquired by Rebellion Unplugged

[Bunch]

Read more about it here:

Rebellion acquires trailblazing Tunnels & Trolls RPG - Rebellion Unplugged

World-renowned independent creative studio Rebellion is delighted to announce the acquisition of Tunnels & Trolls, one of the trailblazing games of the fantasy genre, and the second roleplaying game ever published.   First published in 1975 by Flying Buffalo as a more player-friendly...

rebellionunplugged.com

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

This is, cautiously, very good.

 

[Tulpa Girl]

Interesting that Rebellion Webbed Spherehad bought it but in the end never did anything with it.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

Interesting that Rebellion had bought it but in the end never did anything with it.

Webbed Sphere, not Rebellion. :p

This is sounding more and more promising.

Will I be able to publish my fan-made Tunnels & Trolls contents in the future?​

---

Yes, absolutely. The fans of Tunnels & Trolls are core to its enduring legacy, and we are keen to make sure they remain active participants in the game. We’re still in the very early stages of planning, and will be putting a call out to creators later this year. Subscribe to the newsletter or our social channels if you’re interested, as that’s where we’ll be talking about it first.

 

[Tulpa Girl]

Ah, yeah, thanks for the correction.

(thinking is hard)

 

[CaoCao]

very interesting, especially the community content program promise (or similar). let's see

 

[sharps54]

 

[GiantToenail]

The wheel turns again? On T&T?

Summin Summin die a hero, Summin Summin live long enough and...

 

[David Johansen]

Well, that's tenetively good news.

 

[zanshin]

Yes, I am hopefully hopeful after Webbed Sphere contributed a negative amount to the T&T world.

 

[Burnt Jester]

I had a quick skim of the press release, but it was so full of corpo-speak. Was there a reason given for the acquisition?

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

I had a quick skim of the press release, but it was so full of corpo-speak. Was there a reason given for the acquisition?

Jason Kingsley (Creative Director) is a big old T&T nerd and has used his corporate position to fufill a childhood dream. (That is genuinely what I get from reading between the lines of the statement he put out which says less about the corporate possibilities and more about his T&T PCs).

Rebellion do this now and again; I'm pretty sure they didn't put out the reissue of Block Mania because it's worth a lot of money.

This is good (because he does sound like he genuinely loves the game) and potentially bad (if the new edition is essentially his "ideal" house rules).

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

Honestly, I can't actually think of a better publisher for this than Rebellion Unplugged. Pat Mills has snark about them (I love Pat, but this is not unexpected) but they've been really good stewards of the IP they've bought up so far. Getting old British comics back in print, putting out a new comic soundly aimed at getting kids back into comics etc.

Also, I like the fact that I can now talk about "all the best RPGs like Tunnels and Trolls are British". We should buy Runequest next.

 

[Moonglum]

I have a deep-seated love for T&T and keep hoping some new incarnation of it will feel 'zippy' enough with respect to its combat system that I actually get back into playing it. Hope springs eternal!

 

[sharps54]

I’ll speak for the 5.5 edition crowd

 

[Silverlion]

I really hope they'll do something awesome with it--I'm tentatively hopeful!

 

[sharps54]

Just reopening it up for third party creators will be an important step.

 

[thebigh]

Jason Kingsley (Creative Director) is a big old T&T nerd and has used his corporate position to fufill a childhood dream.

If I ever become wealthy and don't use my riches to do things eight year old me would have thought were cool, what even is the point of being rich?

 

[remial]

maybe they will go after that twatface that insisted he had the right to publish whatever he wanted using T&T. can't remember the guy's name but Ken couldn't go after him legally because he didn't have the cash.

(guy "wrote" a bunch of stuff, like a Gamma World hack, a supers hack and a Discworld hack for T&T. any time he tried to sell any of the books on like ebay or amazon they got pulled down really quick)

 

[Tulpa Girl]

If you're referring to James Shipman, I believe he passed away a few years ago.

 

[thebigh]

Wow, what a piece of work that guy was. I wasn't aware of him or his shenanigans before today but... yeesh.

 

[Moonglum]

I’ll speak for the 5.5 edition crowd
View attachment 60550

I totally get the 'we fear change' crowd; in nearly all respects I'm part of it - people like original $&!@ because that is where the creative spark and idiosyncratic character is; in the long run no one cares about how cleverly you re-engineered and re-packaged someone else's idea. This is particularly true of a game like T&T, which is just all vibes all the time.

But I will say the melee combat system, played as written, has always provided an embarrassingly bad experience for most players. This was driven home to me recently when I recommended T&T to a friend who wanted to explore some real dank 1970's gaming classics other than original D&D. He just hated it, and for the very understandable reason that when he resolved combat following RAW it was a boring slog that either stalled in a deadlock or ran away in a death spiral, with no real decisions being made and nothing really happening. I understand some people love it (for some reason...) and everyone who plays it for very long has a bunch of house rules, but for god's sake it's been nearly 50 years - please just fix that damn thing so a typical interested player can have a good experience.

 

[Toadmaster]

I totally get the 'we fear change' crowd; in nearly all respects I'm part of it - people like original $&!@ because that is where the creative spark and idiosyncratic character is; in the long run no one cares about how cleverly you re-engineered and re-packaged someone else's idea. This is particularly true of a game like T&T, which is just all vibes all the time.

But I will say the melee combat system, played as written, has always provided an embarrassingly bad experience for most players. This was driven home to me recently when I recommended T&T to a friend who wanted to explore some real dank 1970's gaming classics other than original D&D. He just hated it, and for the very understandable reason that when he resolved combat following RAW it was a boring slog that either stalled in a deadlock or ran away in a death spiral, with no real decisions being made and nothing really happening. I understand some people love it (for some reason...) and everyone who plays it for very long has a bunch of house rules, but for god's sake it's been nearly 50 years - please just fix that damn thing so a typical interested player can have a good experience.

5.5 is without a doubt the best edited version, and that matters because it makes the rules understandable. I liked a lot of the additions to 7, but as written I would have had a hard time playing without reference to 5.5, so I get the love for 5.5.

I really haven't spent much time with Deluxe, as my reintroduction period to T&T was over before that was released.

I like the combat system for its ability to spread damage among the party, but as written (in 5.5) it comes across pretty bland. It hints at things to make it spicier, but it was only hanging around places where there were active T&T players that I began to grasp just how much better the combat system can function. Not even going so far as house rules, but simply examples of using the parts just hinted at in the rules. The game relies heavily on on the players trusting the GM, and the GM being reasonable and generous in allowing the players to do cool stuff.

 

[Toadmaster]

Read more about it here:

Rebellion acquires trailblazing Tunnels & Trolls RPG - Rebellion Unplugged

World-renowned independent creative studio Rebellion is delighted to announce the acquisition of Tunnels & Trolls, one of the trailblazing games of the fantasy genre, and the second roleplaying game ever published.   First published in 1975 by Flying Buffalo as a more player-friendly...

rebellionunplugged.com

Here is hoping for a much deserved revival. T&T has never been as popular as it deserved to be, I think largely due to its origin as a garage game. It has never really broken free from the limitations that go with a tiny publisher. The game has been a huge success all things considered, so it will be interesting to see where it goes with more support behind it.

I'm glad to see MSPE is going with it, as it is another game that has much unrealized potential.

 

[Cowboy Duck]

Yeah, pretty excited about this. Their combo of resources, professionalism, and love for T&T might mean something good could come out of this. If MSPE is along for the ride, all the better.

Side note - in true RPGPub form, merely looking at the website led to an impulse purchase of the Ian Livingstone Judge Dredd game.

 

[sharps54]

They own everything roleplaying by FBI including MS&PE but the announcement doesn’t mention other games like Nuclear War.

 

[Mosker]

Regardless of the rule changes (primarily 5th ed. fan here) , I am beyond psyched: There may be worse case scenarios than Webbed Sphere's "We're doing nothing with the IP and we're going to use our authority to pull all 3rd party products off of DriveThruRPG" policy, but even in our utterly illogical, cruel and injust world...

Nope. Fear not happening.

I'm returning to my celebration.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

They own everything roleplaying by FBI including MS&PE but the announcement doesn’t mention other games like Nuclear War.

That's an interesting question, considering that Webbed Sphere's T&T page now redirects to Rebellion.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

I totally get the 'we fear change' crowd; in nearly all respects I'm part of it - people like original $&!@ because that is where the creative spark and idiosyncratic character is; in the long run no one cares about how cleverly you re-engineered and re-packaged someone else's idea. This is particularly true of a game like T&T, which is just all vibes all the time.

But I will say the melee combat system, played as written, has always provided an embarrassingly bad experience for most players. This was driven home to me recently when I recommended T&T to a friend who wanted to explore some real dank 1970's gaming classics other than original D&D. He just hated it, and for the very understandable reason that when he resolved combat following RAW it was a boring slog that either stalled in a deadlock or ran away in a death spiral, with no real decisions being made and nothing really happening. I understand some people love it (for some reason...) and everyone who plays it for very long has a bunch of house rules, but for god's sake it's been nearly 50 years - please just fix that damn thing so a typical interested player can have a good experience.

The main issue I think there is with T&T combat is that they didn't even outline what stunting is until 5e. It's near mandatory to make combat work.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

No details yet but Steve Crompton has confirmed that Rebellion have contacted him.

 

[sharps54]

Good, I have no issues giving Rebellion my money.

 

[Gringnr]

No details yet but Steve Crompton has confirmed that Rebellion have contacted him.

TBH I'd rather see Liz Danforth ionvolved than Ken or Steve. I appreciate their creations, but I think Ken, and especially Steve, are not necessarily good faces for the product going forward. The way Steve balked at the idea that "Yassa Massa" might actually be an unfunny and racist spell name makes me think he's a bit out of touch. And the best editions of T&T are those that had a HEAVY Danforth influence. Just my $0.02.

 

[sharps54]

TBH I'd rather see Liz Danforth ionvolved than Ken or Steve. I appreciate their creations, but I think Ken, and especially Steve, are not necessarily good faces for the product going forward. The way Steve balked at the idea that "Yassa Massa" might actually be an unfunny and racist spell name makes me think he's a bit out of touch. And the best editions of T&T are those that had a HEAVY Danforth influence. Just my $0.02.

I love Liz’s stuff and think she has definitely made the game better but there is something to having at least the blessing of KSA to give legitimacy to any new edition.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

TBH I'd rather see Liz Danforth ionvolved than Ken or Steve. I appreciate their creations, but I think Ken, and especially Steve, are not necessarily good faces for the product going forward. The way Steve balked at the idea that "Yassa Massa" might actually be an unfunny and racist spell name makes me think he's a bit out of touch. And the best editions of T&T are those that had a HEAVY Danforth influence. Just my $0.02.

Didn't Steve remove it as a spell?

And I have a lot of time for Liz, but isn't she primarly an illustrator? If so, I suspect that's another department entirely.

Found it; unless there's other stuff Steve seems fully in agreement with you here.

Hi all. YES we did rename the spellname of "Y**** M****" to "Obey ME!" and then a few days later Ken asked me to add a short statement from him in regards to the change at the front of the 1st, 4th and 5th editions of T&T. No other changes have been made or are planned to be made to those books. So this is not part of some great plan to overhall the old books and make them politically correct. We changed that spell name as it really was offensive - end of story.

It was a dumb joke that never should have happened, but I don't think they need to be kept at arm's length for a bit of idiocy for when they were much younger.

 

[JohnTGG]

Great news! Hopefully this means I can get a hardcopy of Deluxe T&T. Ordering a hard copy of Monsters! Monsters! & the Monsterary of Zimarala here soon so would love to have prints of all of them.

 

[BigJackBrass]

And I have a lot of time for Liz, but isn't she primarly an illustrator? If so, I suspect that's another department entirely.

She edited the fifth edition. In some ways that version is as much hers as Ken's.

 

[Gringnr]

Didn't Steve remove it as a spell?

And I have a lot of time for Liz, but isn't she primarly an illustrator? If so, I suspect that's another department entirely.

Found it; unless there's other stuff Steve seems fully in agreement with you here.



It was a dumb joke that never should have happened, but I don't think they need to be kept at arm's length for a bit of idiocy for when they were much younger.

Danforth is a writer as well. In addition to 5th, she contributed heavily to Deluxe.

Yeah, Steve changed it. I'm maybe remembering it worse than it was.

Edit: I just remembered, Ken made a somewhat controversial soc-med post a while back that almost made a well-liked third-party author stop writing for T&T for good. I dunno, if I were only trying to sell T&T to the existing grog fanbase, that would be one thing. But if I were trying to grow and expand the base, especially among younger & newer players, I might just avoid involving Ken and Steve beyond credits. Nothing personal against them, just on a purely business/marketing level. I know social media is cancer, but a lot of people use it.

Either way, I'm glad to see T&T in Rebellion's hands.

 

[SJB]

Danforth is a writer as well. In addition to 5th, she contributed heavily to Deluxe.

Yeah, Steve changed it. I'm maybe remembering it worse than it was.

Edit: I just remembered, Ken made a somewhat controversial soc-med post a while back that almost made a well-liked third-party author stop writing for T&T for good. I dunno, if I were only trying to sell T&T to the existing grog fanbase, that would be one thing. But if I were trying to grow and expand the base, especially among younger & newer players, I might just avoid involving Ken and Steve beyond credits. Nothing personal against them, just on a purely business/marketing level. I know social media is cancer, but a lot of people use it.

Either way, I'm glad to see T&T in Rebellion's hands.

Personally, I remember that the third-party author (if we’re thinking of the same one based in northern England) behaved like a d*ck. St André had given him a lot of personal encouragement starting out. It’s quite possible to seriously disagree with a mentor without performing virtue on the internet. Anybody who knows anything about T&T realises that it’s a one way trip to 1970s Arizona. The senior US senator for Arizona at the time of publication was Barry Goldwater.

 

[Gringnr]

Personally, I remember that the third-party author (if we’re thinking of the same one based in northern England) behaved like a d*ck. St André had given him a lot of personal encouragement starting out. It’s quite possible to seriously disagree with a mentor without performing virtue on the internet. Anybody who knows anything about T&T realises that it’s a one way trip to 1970s Arizona. The senior US senator for Arizona at the time of publication was Barry Goldwater.

Sure, and St. Andre apologized for the offending statement, and the author later said that perhaps he overreacted. Still not good publicity for any involved. Still not the kind of thing I'd want for a product I was trying to sell, or a brand I was trying to grow.

Edit: I was born and raised in Arizona, BTW.

 

[Weru]

The main issue I think there is with T&T combat is that they didn't even outline what stunting is until 5e. It's near mandatory to make combat wor

As someone who thinks the .5 in 5th is newfangled and not needed, I'd be kinda sad to see the old buckets of dice, and the whole melee free for all aspects go, but yeah I think the combat needs an overhaul. I've often wondered if SR's could be the basis for the entire combat system?

Anyway, this is good news. As much as anything, I think the vibe and look of T&T is due for an update. If they stick with Deluxe I hope they at least consider a 5.5 based Classic line. Be interesting to see what they do with MSPI. Maybe they'll use it as a basis to add modern and sci fi stuff and roll it all into one with T&T for a more generic approach. Of course, the other way would be to have fantasy, modern, sci-fi editions. I'm also hopeful that T&T/MSPI could be used with the 2000AD properties they own. T&T and 2000AD should be a fun mix. Obviously, the ultimate dream is a T&T powered Hawk the Slayer TTRPG.