Tunnels & Trolls acquired by Rebellion Unplugged

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I committed to two changes many years ago and was delighted by the result:
- Everybody has a stat block, as per the RAW treatment of detailed monsters in place of MR's
- Melee attacks are resolved like missile attacks, using SR's
 
If I had the property I'd double down on the old school independant angle really hard. I would try to leverage the fan base's creativity into growth and do anything I could to encourage them to spread my product identithy far and wide. And I would make sure people knew I was the fan friendliest guy on Earth. But that's really nothing new, I'd do that with D&D and Warhammer 40k and Magic the gathering if I owned them too. Somehow screwing over the fans always struck me as a poor business model.
 
I predict that any Rebellion T&T product will stick pretty close to what's been released already. Why monkey with 50 years of backward compatibility? Also, and this is just a guess, the CEO, a T&T fan, is British, so the Corgi rules were probably what he played. I may be wrong, but that's what I'd expect to happen.
 
I predict that any Rebellion T&T product will stick pretty close to what's been released already. Why monkey with 50 years of backward compatibility? Also, and this is just a guess, the CEO, a T&T fan, is British, so the Corgi rules were probably what he played. I may be wrong, but that's what I'd expect to happen.
No, he says in the article that he started with the orange/ tan book with the black spine. Same as me and my friends. The corgi edition came in relatively late all things considered.

The FF game books had already come and gone more or less, and I think corgi were trying to hit that FF fad market.

Most kids who saw corgi's T&T in WH Smiths thought they were Johnny come lately FF rip offs. There was a lot of crossover between Rpg fans and FF, but most of those who started with FF might have got to D&D or other games later, but we're oblivious to the fact that T&T had solos out well before the Warlock of Firestop Mountain was a no 1 bestseller.
 
Just out of interest, are there many of us 5.5 ed types here at the Pub?
I started with 5th ed and the solo adventures, but the Corgi edition is my favourite. (I like deluxe but there are points it gets too complex and I miss the ridiculously long weapons list).
 
As someone who thinks the .5 in 5th is newfangled and not needed, I'd be kinda sad to see the old buckets of dice, and the whole melee free for all aspects go, but yeah I think the combat needs an overhaul. I've often wondered if SR's could be the basis for the entire combat system?
There used to be a 3rd party supplement which offered a new combat system using only stunts. It might have been pulled off, though, since I can't find it on Drivethru.
Unless it was on Lulu:shade:?
 
I started with 5th ed and the solo adventures, but the Corgi edition is my favourite. (I like deluxe but there are points it gets too complex and I miss the ridiculously long weapons list).
Big fan of the weapons list. I like the way the price, Str req, and Dex req make equipping a new character a real resource management challenge from the start. I also loved that there was a glossary, and that they'd linked many pictures with delvers using the weapons, rather than just using pictures with generic fantasy weapons.
 
Just out of interest, are there many of us 5.5 ed types here at the Pub?
5.5 is my preferred edition. Though my ideal edition would include bits and pieces of other editions. Monster Special Attacks from 7/7.5 are great, and I like to use them. Open-ended SRs are also cool and useful. There are a few other tweaks I make, and I'm not sure if some of them are actually from official rulesets or not.
 
For myself to even crack ooen the book it needs to offer something new. Not just OSR nostalgia, the name, not 5E and not published by Wotc.

Or imo for some players it’s dead on arrival in terms of interest.
 
For myself to even crack ooen the book it needs to offer something new. Not just OSR nostalgia, the name, not 5E and not published by Wotc.

Or imo for some players it’s dead on arrival in terms of interest.
Let me see if I'm reading this right: your players refuse to touch things that don't offer anything new, or are 5e, or are published by WotC:thumbsup:?
 
For myself to even crack ooen the book it needs to offer something new. Not just OSR nostalgia, the name, not 5E and not published by Wotc.

Or imo for some players it’s dead on arrival in terms of interest.
If I was Rebellion what I'd really double down on is the solo adventures. That's where I think they could find a comfortable market niche.
 
If I was Rebellion what I'd really double down on is the solo adventures. That's where I think they could find a comfortable market niche.
Perhaps with a greater eye toward balance, or added SR "stunting" options, to reduce the arbitrary lethality present in the solos.

Or, as with "Overkill", a solo that can accommodate a party. That would (hopefully) allow some of the options (spells, missile, etc.) missing from many solos.
 
Cool! I love 5.5, but I'm also alright with Deluxe but lean to 5.5 with the magic stat option.
To be honest, my favourite is fifth. 5.5 was a bit of a joke after D&D 3.5 because it wasn't a new edition. All it was really are a few articles from Sorcerer's Apprentice and other sources, tacked on to fill up space because the new printer could only do books of a certain length. Ken misremembered how spite damage worked and forgot who came up with it (Roy Cram) and the other bits were pretty random.
 
I do like Stackpole's Skill system, even if it's not entirely fleshed out in 5.5. TBH, I prefer it to the system in DT&T.
 
I committed to two changes many years ago and was delighted by the result: [Underline mine]
[...]
- Melee attacks are resolved like missile attacks, using SR's
Share? (One of my taglines for T&T is "40+ years of Ken trying to fix his combat system and achieving [die roll every round]% success")

(Regardless: T&T is where my heart is and the attribute based SR is my choice for the most significant advancement in the hobby since the earliest days of D&D)
 
Ok I have several T&T editions but honestly I forget what is 5 and what is 5.5 and what makes them different.

I played the boxed set that was black and a monster in the center with a fairy and I think an elf and a fat human or maybe a hobbit fighting it
 
I've always been thinking...the real challenge in making the whole of T&T combat stunt-based is 1) deciding how to derive Stunt Levels from opponent's attributes and 2) how to decide when to stop.
 
I committed to two changes many years ago and was delighted by the result:
- Everybody has a stat block, as per the RAW treatment of detailed monsters in place of MR's
- Melee attacks are resolved like missile attacks, using SR's
I like to keep MR as an option, especially for hordes of minions that I want the party to kick into the death-spiral with ease.

I also like to lean into the dual MR system combining Fighting MR and Constitutional MR to give you options of things that fight well but have a glass jaw, or aren't t much of threat, but tough to kill, and everything in between that FMR and CMR allow.

Full stats are still best for feature, interesting, and boss monsters though.

Using the missile system as a basis for combat is a good idea though. If you left the weapons dice and adds as are it would keep ablative armour relevant, but still keep combat lethal. Is that how it works out for you? Do you allow any active defense?
 
Ok I have several T&T editions but honestly I forget what is 5 and what is 5.5 and what makes them different.

I played the boxed set that was black and a monster in the center with a fairy and I think an elf and a fat human or maybe a hobbit fighting it
Either 5 or 5.5. Both were in boxed sets, but 5.5 didn't come along till the early aughts, IIRC. So, before that, would been 5.

5.5 was.just 5 with some optional rules from Sorcerer's Apprentice magazine (Spite Damage, Mike Stackpole's Skill system, etc.), and tye Buffalo Castle added to the end of the book.
 
I like to keep MR as an option, especially for hordes of minions that I want the party to kick into the death-spiral with ease.

I also like to lean into the dual MR system combining Fighting MR and Constitutional MR to give you options of things that fight well but have a glass jaw, or aren't t much of threat, but tough to kill, and everything in between that FMR and CMR allow.

Full stats are still best for feature, interesting, and boss monsters though.

Using the missile system as a basis for combat is a good idea though. If you left the weapons dice and adds as are it would keep ablative armour relevant, but still keep combat lethal. Is that how it works out for you? Do you allow any active defense?
SR vs. SR (plus weapons and Adds, of course) with the lower taking the difference in Damage seems the easiest solution. But with some weapons getting into multiple dice of damage, not to mention adds, armor would be mostly insufficient protection (except maybe to Warriors), and combat would be ridiculously lethal. DARO could help somewhat there.

I'm one of those who likes T&T combat as is. I've considered alternate methods of resolution, but I've never found one where the juice was worth the squeeze.
 
SR vs. SR (plus weapons and Adds, of course) with the lower taking the difference in Damage seems the easiest solution. But with some weapons getting into multiple dice of damage, not to mention adds, armor would be mostly insufficient protection (except maybe to Warriors), and combat would be ridiculously lethal. DARO could help somewhat there.

I'm one of those who likes T&T combat as is. I've considered alternate methods of resolution, but I've never found one where the juice was worth the squeeze.
I always thought that some sort of fatigue subsystem would help with the complaints about stalemates.
 
I'm one of those who likes T&T combat as is. I've considered alternate methods of resolution, but I've never found one where the juice was worth the squeeze.

Me too. Plus the simple combat is one of the draws of T&T for me -- if I wanted a game with more complex combat, there are tons of options out there.
 
I think the combat generally works better with fully statted characters because MR monsters get 50% of their MR as ads and the randomness is really what makes T&T melee combat work. Maybe giving monsters more dice and less adds would help. The real problem is fighters with heavy armour. It's quite easy to build first level fighters who can't actually hurt each other in combat. Burning armour is a partial solution.
 
I think the combat generally works better with fully statted characters because MR monsters get 50% of their MR as ads and the randomness is really what makes T&T melee combat work. Maybe giving monsters more dice and less adds would help. The real problem is fighters with heavy armour. It's quite easy to build first level fighters who can't actually hurt each other in combat. Burning armour is a partial solution.
That's why I thought a fatigue system might work. Possibly something based on Con that reduces Str (similar to spell-casting). Also, some type of B/X style Morale and Reaction tables might stop combat grind.
 
We run a few house rules for the game (Spite being the main one replaced by exploding (6s) and imploding (1s) dice but we have things like damage to other stats and being able to reroll fumbles at a cost of Luck points which restore at the end of each adventure chapter plus other rules) and it's one of those games that sort of gives you the 'bare bones' to work with and build on rather than 'one true way'.

In my opinion they tried to 'kitchen sink' it with DT&T and it was successful commercially (relatively speaking) but divided fans even more. T&T was always a small cheap easy to get into game and now it was a bulletstopper that wasn't cheap or easy to get hold of. I think they could go back to basics with a 64 page rule book, a world book (if you want it, Trollworld was always Kens quirky 'anything goes' place) and/or setting books plus of course solo adventures (even with a party). A video game, board game (Talisman style), app on the phone, get some talented voice actor types playing the game for streaming, that sort of thing.

One thing that has stuck out from our ongoing campaign so far is the absolute necessity for a dice roller. Warriors get their 1D6 bonus per level on any weapon they are using. Dual wield weapons means double level bonus so you'd be mad to use a shield. That means 2nd and 3rd level warriors really come into their own (and we have a 7th level Dwarf Warrior who tears into pretty much everything) which means adjusting Monsters accordingly to provide a challenge which in turn means high AP awards/fast levelling. I'm not saying it's a problem as such, rather it was unexpected until I started running the game and realised it was something I'd not come across in my (limited) experience with the game before. My first experience was with the Corgi books and the players preferred D&D so that was it.

two-weapons.png


weapon-bonus-explained.png


Buckets o dice aren't just a meme for T&T, they are a requirement!

Even with the niggles/shortcomings I still prefer T&Ts 'cloud o fists and feet jutting out' approach to combat over D&D and it plays (in my opinion) very well by post using a dice roller. I'd hate to think about rolling thirty odd dice every time for Monsters as I do at the moment with actual dice. :crossed:

Just hoping Rebellion do something with it as opposed to Webbed Sphere who bought it, sat on it and moved it on when they lost interest. The only thing they did of note was to piss off fans/3rd party creators so they won't be fondly remembered...
 
Hey, guys...since this is the current T&T thread, can anyone tell me which T&T adventure would be appropriate for kids in the 9-12 range?

Yes, asking for a friend:thumbsup:!
The only thing they did of note was to piss off fans/3rd party creators so they won't be fondly remembered...
They also virtually guaranteed that the next (current) IP holder would get a lot of good-will for nor being them:shade:!
 
Hey, guys...since this is the current T&T thread, can anyone tell me which T&T adventure would be appropriate for kids in the 9-12 range?
Just download a wilderness map or a dungeon map from the internet, print it out and use figures and improvise as they progress (I've done this several times with my kids and their friends when they were in that age range).
Since the opponents in T&T are literally a single stat (MR) this is super easy.
 
Just download a wilderness map or a dungeon map from the internet, print it out and use figures and improvise as they progress (I've done this several times with my kids and their friends when they were in that age range).
Since the opponents in T&T are literally a single stat (MR) this is super easy.
That is what I would do, and wouldn't be asking in this case:grin:!
I mean, my NPCs are one number even when I'm playing ORE or Mythras...

The prospective GM*, however isn't big into improvising...and I suspect the people who've played with me have labelled me as "Not The Best Kiddie Referee**", so I'm part of the Last-Ditch Reserves...:shade:

*The "asking for a friend" part was actually serious:tongue:!

**I don't know why, it's either the obvious gusto when describing wounds, or the debauchery*** inherent to most of my settings.

***It's all slander, though - the last time the PCs visited a massage parlour was last week, sure! But there were no sexual favours offered, just drugs:thumbsup:!
 
Hey, guys...since this is the current T&T thread, can anyone tell me which T&T adventure would be appropriate for kids in the 9-12 range?

Yes, asking for a friend:thumbsup:!

They also virtually guaranteed that the next (current) IP holder would get a lot of good-will for nor being them:shade:!
Well, that was the age range, me and my mates were when we started, so the short answer would be all of them. But yeah, some of those old solos had some 'dubious' content, so I'd be careful about what I recommend.

As far as solos go, I'm pretty sure Buffalo Castle, Sword for Hire, Sorcerer Solitare, and Arena of Khazan are okay, but it's been awhile. I have a feeling that anything Stackpole wrote would be good too.

For GM adventures, the introductory Trollstone Caverns from the 5th ed rule book is a fun little one or two session adventure. Uncle Uglies Underground Doom, and Dungeon of the Bear, are both funhouse dungeons that should suit that age group.

With any of the above, the main issue for that age might be how tough the challenge is and character death, so maybe encourage each player to bring the old stable of three or more characters.
 
Also since kids tend to remain together as a group and to not 'split the party', you can run a solo for them as if it were a GM adventure (done that too).
 
Well, that was the age range, me and my mates were when we started, so the short answer would be all of them. But yeah, some of those old solos had some 'dubious' content, so I'd be careful about what I recommend.
Yeah, it's the dubious content that I'd want you (the generic-you-as-in-old-T-amp-T-hands) to filter out for me...:thumbsup:
I mean, can I use Demons of the Deep or another Fighting Fantasy game? Sure. But if they don't get enough black pearls, it might not be the resounding success I'm hoping for.
(Also, improvising is not that GM's forte, and I'm just trying to be helpful:shade:).

As far as solos go, I'm pretty sure Buffalo Castle, Sword for Hire, Sorcerer Solitare, and Arena of Khazan are okay, but it's been awhile. I have a feeling that anything Stackpole wrote would be good too.

For GM adventures, the introductory Trollstone Caverns from the 5th ed rule book is a fun little one or two session adventure. Uncle Uglies Underground Doom, and Dungeon of the Bear, are both funhouse dungeons that should suit that age group.
Thank you. I'll look at those in more depth.

With any of the above, the main issue for that age might be how tough the challenge is and character death, so maybe encourage each player to bring the old stable of three or more characters.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking about as well.

Of course, if they were to let me go at it, I might just say "screw it" and acquaint them with Mythras, instead (animism-based setting, in order to allow them to play shapechangers - the other option I can think of is Exalted Essence with a Lunars PC...and I'd rather not go there). But I'm hoping to actually play this time:grin:!
Granted, I might play in a different group, but that's also fine.
 
Re: Dubious content.

I need to see if I can find the rejection letter (papyrus lasts even if my filing didn't) for a solo with Michael Stackpole explaining his objections (along with the teams') to my use of such (sexual) content...

...and I can still hear my much younger self talking back to the letter: "But but but KEN did it, so..."
 
There used to be a 3rd party supplement which offered a new combat system using only stunts. It might have been pulled off, though, since I can't find it on Drivethru.
Unless it was on Lulu:shade:?
Check the Trollszine archive (https://mega.nz/folder/Iygg2bYR#SaE3gcU8dtTmHPxGWx8_FQ) (And yes, the link was posted, by someone who knew what they were doing, in a publicly accessible place--i.e. no login or membership required to see --otherwise I wouldn't have shared.)
 
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