Tunnels & Trolls Bundle of Holding + Chatty Thread

KrakaJak

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One of the best Soloable RPGs has a big Bundle of Holding going on right now. It's currently at a really good deal (20ish dollars for the upgraded collection)

Figured this would a good place to let people her know, and maybe even start a T&T chatty thread (since it is one of my fave RPGs).



I was most happy to see T&Ts collective combat make a return in Vampire: the Masquerade 5th edition.
 
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Weru

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T&T was my first RPG. It warped my tiny mind. I love it, well I love 5th ed, lukewarm on other versions. Played it quite a lot before my group moved onto B/X, Runequest, Traveller, MERP and every other boxed set we could get our grubby hands on. To this day I still feel like T&T does stuff in a way I just prefer. Not sure if it really is any better, more like I just bonded hard with it before trying other games. Would love to run a T&T campaign sometime.
 

Gringnr

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I love T&T, warts and all. Currently running a pbp here. I need to look at the BoH, but I probably have it all already.
 

KrakaJak

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T&T was my first RPG. It warped my tiny mind. I love it, well I love 5th ed, lukewarm on other versions. Played it quite a lot before my group moved onto B/X, Runequest, Traveller, MERP and every other boxed set we could get our grubby hands on. To this day I still feel like T&T does stuff in a way I just prefer. Not sure if it really is any better, more like I just bonded hard with it before trying other games. Would love to run a T&T campaign sometime.
A lot of the way Tunnels & Trolls does things is still pretty unique. It has not been iterated on very much over the years, but I think it's because they pretty much nailed the design right out of the gate. It's kind of it's own paradigm.
 

Halda

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I really wish they would put up the 5.5 edition on T&T for sale as a PDF. I really like what that gave you. It is weird you can get the deluxe edition from 2015, 1st ed, 4th end and even 5th ed, but no 5.5 on DriveThruRPG :sad:
 

Gringnr

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I really wish they would put up the 5.5 edition on T&T for sale as a PDF. I really like what that gave you. It is weird you can get the deluxe edition from 2015, 1st ed, 4th end and even 5th ed, but no 5.5 on DriveThruRPG :sad:
I picked up a softcover of 5.5 last month from Flying Buffalo. Their website is f'ed, you have to email them directly bto get accurate stock levels on anything. If their website says it's out of stock, it may not be. What I'm saying is, if you want 5.5, you might be able to get it. Unless you only want it in PDF, in which case you're SOL.
 

AsenRG

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I picked up a softcover of 5.5 last month from Flying Buffalo. Their website is f'ed, you have to email them directly bto get accurate stock levels on anything. If their website says it's out of stock, it may not be. What I'm saying is, if you want 5.5, you might be able to get it. Unless you only want it in PDF, in which case you're SOL.
And probably not even then...

I don't have experience with Flying Buffalo, but I ran Fates Worse Than Death from a PDF before it was officially published in PDF. And it was all legal.
How?
I registered on the forum of Vajra and started a thread asking whether there is a way to get the PDF.
The author explained politely that he wants to sell his physical copies first.
I explained equally politely that 1) I'm a PDF-only guy (it was true at the time, and it's still mostly true) and 2) shipping to Bulgaria would be worth more than the price of the book. So I wasn't going to pirate it, but I'm not going to pay the shipping, either. So if he's not willing to sell the PDF, I'd have to pick another system and setting for my next campaign - and I already have plenty of those, what with thousands of PDFs on my name at Drivethru.
Thus he sold me the PDF, commenting that, when the option is between someone playing his games or another game, he prefers people playing his games:grin:.

And then I made him an offer for his other books, and I know at least one guy from my group bought FWTD as well. In the end, we all had fun, and I even became a playtester of the next supplement "Price of Power".
I think he found our approach to the four adventures in it quite funny, too. I interspersed them between events in my third FWTD campaign at the time and my wife broke her personal record by resolving one of those in less than 15 minutes... The previous record was about an hour, I think, in a completely different system.
You can now guess why I don't use many ready-made adventures, can't you:devil:?

My point is: it never hurts to ask:thumbsup:.
 

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I backed Deluxe but never played it. The appeal of T&T was that I didn't have to grind my old brain through an inch thick book to play. Sure the basics might be at the front but I like the smaller books and earlier versions as they do all you need them to do. I'll echo 5.5 as the sweet spot. 6e was the Shipman thing as far as I know and 7 was actually pretty cute in the tin thing. Still have that somewhere. If I were running a dungeon crawl (haven't done so in decades) then T&t or a very homeruled MERP would be my go to. One offers fast and furious clouds with fists feet and blades poking out, the other offers tripping over imaginary turtles in the process of disembowelling yourself, which everyone should experience if they like Fantasy RPGs.
 

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Gringnr

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I've heard good things about the 5.5 edition. I asked for it in the comments of the 5th edition on dtrpg. Maybe we can get a release if we show there is some demand:

They only recently released 5 in PDF. I have seen some chatter that they are working on releasing just the ".5" bits as a separate item. I doubt 5.5 will be coming as a single PDF anytime soon.
 

Halda

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Yeah it is the PDF I am after. I
They only recently released 5 in PDF. I have seen some chatter that they are working on releasing just the ".5" bits as a separate item. I doubt 5.5 will be coming as a single PDF anytime soon.
Nice, the extras are all we really need now!
 

Weru

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What are the extras in 5.5? Was it spite rules, Mike Stackpole's skill system, and a couple of articles on Trollworld? Anything else? Was there an alt armour rule for warriors as well?
 

Gringnr

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What are the extras in 5.5? Was it spite rules, Mike Stackpole's skill system, and a couple of articles on Trollworld? Anything else? Was there an alt armour rule for warriors as well?
Yeah, warriors could "burn armor" in order to avoid taking hits, i.e., take permanent damage to your armor instead.

Pulling punches/calling shots was another of the extra 5.5 rules. Also TARO (Triples Add and Roll Over) during chargen.
 

Weru

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Yeah, warriors could "burn armor" in order to avoid taking hits, i.e., take permanent damage to your armor instead.

Pulling punches/calling shots was another of the extra 5.5 rules. Also TARO (Triples Add and Roll Over) during chargen.
Okay, think I can live without most of 5.5 extras then. I would have gone mad for any details on the game world back in the day. Loved all the snippets of lore in the various solos, but these days I'm more likely to use a world of my own.
 

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I've always found it kind of mysterious that there are so many editions of T&T but none of them present a satisfactory, general solution to the problems caused by the core melee combat system. Perhaps the best thing I've tried was to use the to-hit and damage rules from missile fire as the approach used for all combat. But it only really works when you use the stat versions of monsters and NPCs (as opposed to monster ratings), so it isn't something that ports over easily to the big catalogue of solo dungeons (which is what attracts most people to the system).
 

Gringnr

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Most T&T players don't really consider combat a "problem". Lack of balance and character mortality are baked in. Also, there are the "stunting" rules which can be used.

The game's had more editions than D&D, and many other games as well. If it hasn't been fixed, that's probably because its fans don't really consider it "broken."

There are other approaches as well, certainly. But most fans of T&T are happy to play it as-is.
 

Black Leaf

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Most T&T players don't really consider combat a "problem". Lack of balance and character mortality are baked in. Also, there are the "stunting" rules which can be used.

The game's had more editions than D&D, and many other games as well. If it hasn't been fixed, that's probably because its fans don't really consider it "broken."

There are other approaches as well, certainly. But most fans of T&T are happy to play it as-is.
And on the flipside if you do want a very niche "fix" for something the community has almost certainly come up with one.
 

AsenRG

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My only problem with T&T combat is the use of stunts, especially in solos (which sometimes suggest fun stunts). But do you take a stunt out of the turn order? Or does the enemy get an unopposed attack roll (likely murdering you)?
 

Gringnr

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Stunts are generally do-or-die affairs, as I understand it. Kind of a way to trade certain death door a slim chance of survival. Many times, the price of failure is death. Tangling weapons, sword breakers, poisons, these are all things that can rip the odds in your favor as well. Some things need to be adjudicated beyond what is in the page, and sometimes you have to think laterally.
 

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I don't think there'd be much point in doing a retroclone of T&T. It's too much unique to itself. I'm not hugely fond of the post 5e changes though I can see the rationale. Someone was writing about one on rpg.net about a month ago, Ubermonkey maybe, but it got too far off base for me from where I sat.

I guess I'd probably rationalize the weapons down to broad classes and make the relationship between Strength and dice a fixed quantity. It's really neat how T&T has so many weapon variants but in the end they just amount to more dice. Trait rules seem like a bit of a reach though there are a few instances like kris knives resisting magic. More of that maybe, give specific weapon styles some unique benefit and let a faerie halberd do faerie damage levels.

I actually really like the magic rules. Character creation should probably not get messed with too much. I'd do something more like a secondary skill list and give rogues two and warriors and wizards one. Warriors doubling armour makes for problems but I'm not sure which end to approach it from. I'd probably just make all armour alblative instead of treating it as damage resistance. That way nobody's invulnerable.

But the more you do the farther it drifts from being T&T and there's so many unique games anyhow that I'm not sure it's worth bothering.
 

AsenRG

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Stunts are generally do-or-die affairs, as I understand it. Kind of a way to trade certain death door a slim chance of survival. Many times, the price of failure is death. Tangling weapons, sword breakers, poisons, these are all things that can rip the odds in your favor as well. Some things need to be adjudicated beyond what is in the page, and sometimes you have to think laterally.
What do you mean with that "sometimes" and "some things":shades:?

I agree that there stunts should be do or suffer. As a matter of fact, I think they should be the basis for the combat system, and that a battle without them amounts to a missed opportunity!
I don't think there'd be much point in doing a retroclone of T&T. It's too much unique to itself. I'm not hugely fond of the post 5e changes though I can see the rationale. Someone was writing about one on rpg.net about a month ago, Ubermonkey maybe, but it got too far off base for me from where I sat.

I guess I'd probably rationalize the weapons down to broad classes and make the relationship between Strength and dice a fixed quantity. It's really neat how T&T has so many weapon variants but in the end they just amount to more dice. Trait rules seem like a bit of a reach though there are a few instances like kris knives resisting magic. More of that maybe, give specific weapon styles some unique benefit and let a faerie halberd do faerie damage levels.

I actually really like the magic rules. Character creation should probably not get messed with too much. I'd do something more like a secondary skill list and give rogues two and warriors and wizards one. Warriors doubling armour makes for problems but I'm not sure which end to approach it from. I'd probably just make all armour alblative instead of treating it as damage resistance. That way nobody's invulnerable.

But the more you do the farther it drifts from being T&T and there's so many unique games anyhow that I'm not sure it's worth bothering.
I don't think classifying weapons really works all that well, though. Unless you classify them by types...
And isn't spite damage exactly a way to make sure that nobody is invulnerable?
 

Gringnr

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I love the weapon choices in T&T. The combinations are endless, and yeah, they're all rather samey, but the trick is finding one (or more) you can use with your STR and DEX. Plus it's dripping with old school charm. I noticed that DT&T doesn't have a terbutje and I was disappointed. I usually play elven rogues with Terbutjes, and name them some variation of "Akki the Jagged" or "Ahki the Feral". Good shit.

And, I do agree that the combat in T&T is unbalanced, wildly abstract and can result in mathematical "no-win" situations unless stunts, poisons, special effects weapons, etc. are used. But that's never stopped me having a blast with T&T.

Also, I think Andy Holmes might be working on re-reading some of his T&T stuff. If I'm not mistaken, he released stuff for the notorious James Shipman and Outlaw Press (before Shipman went full you-know-what), as did many others. Since Shipman's stuff is never likely to be reprinted, much of that has been effectively lost. Andy put out a lot of stuff in the 80s, and it's starting to trickle out on DTRPG. So anyone looking for T&T adventures with a classic feel, check his stuff out.
 

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I love the weapon choices in T&T. The combinations are endless, and yeah, they're all rather samey, but the trick is finding one (or more) you can use with your STR and DEX. Plus it's dripping with old school charm.
Yes, it's real old school resource management. Especially at character creation. I love the fact that with just 30-180 starting gold and various STR and DEX requirements (even weight can be a factor) you have to make often tough choices between which weapons and armour are gonna serve you best within your limits.
 

Gringnr

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I've always found it kind of mysterious that there are so many editions of T&T but none of them present a satisfactory, general solution to the problems caused by the core melee combat system. Perhaps the best thing I've tried was to use the to-hit and damage rules from missile fire as the approach used for all combat. But it only really works when you use the stat versions of monsters and NPCs (as opposed to monster ratings), so it isn't something that ports over easily to the big catalogue of solo dungeons (which is what attracts most people to the system).

Lately, there have been a series of "deadly combat" supplements, detailing a new way of combat that uses Saving Rolls. I looked it over, and while I can see the appeal from a more traditional gaming standpoint, I'd need to give it a more thorough look to see if it's something I'd adopt at my table.

I think playing a lot of solos gives you a feel for just how badly T&T needs balanced encounters in order to avoid a "Kobayashi Maru" situation.

There are a few ways to address this. Enemies that gradually ramp up their attack strength, requiring a decisive early attack, is one.

Separating MR from CON is another, and one that was used in some solos back in the day. That eliminates the "death spiral", making even dying enemies formidable. Separating MR and CON also allows you to have enemies that are dangerous but still reasonably easy to kill.

Stunting is yet another. And, while some may find it hard to adjudicate, there's an excellent article on the subject in issue #1 of TrollsZine (free on DTRPG) called "Dare to DARO". It provides a very well thought out framework for using stunts during combat.

None of which is explicitly spelled out in earlier editions of the core rules, tbf.

And while I get that T&T isn't everyone's cuppa, I think it does require a certain mindset to really enjoy it. To wit:

-It's about the journey, not the destination.

-Easy come, easy go.

-When you start stepping back from the RAW, and experimenting, you're probably starting to "get" it.

None of which makes T&T a particularly "good" game in the strict sense of the word. But, that never stopped me from having fun with it.

Anyway, this post isn't an attempt to rebut Moonglum, so much as an effort to point out that lots of people probably feel as he does. Which is probably what spawned the idea for T&T's alternative "Deadly Combat" rules.
 

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Mercenaries Spies and Private Eyes works pretty well, the "parry" rule means that on a success you inflict your whole attack total as damage. Tied with the skills for weapon use making missile fire more accurate for low DX characters. It works, I'm not sure why it was never fully integrated back into T&T. I was messing around with a simple 3d6 game that drew a lot on my thinking about T&T and GURPS, particularly around the relationship between strength and damage, but it didn't seem to interest anyone so I went back to other projects.
 

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Any links available to online versions of the 'Deadly Combat' alternative rules?
 

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Stunts as I've seen them are often used to do "individual" melee combat if you want to jump one orc alone; rather than hack and slash with everyone else. But it is RISKY.
 

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Any links available to online versions of the 'Deadly Combat' alternative rules?
TrollZine 10 is PWYW and has (and example of) said rules, though I suspect there are other versions as well.
 

Moonglum

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TrollZine 10 is PWYW and has (and example of) said rules, though I suspect there are other versions as well.
Thanks for the tip. I read most of it in the 'teaser' file available on DTRPG; my initial reaction is 'Thanks; I hate it!'. It is somehow just as abstract and swingy and full of statistical potholes as the original rules, yet now super complex, slow and counter intuitive.

I seriously don't understand what is going on in the T&T community. The game is wonderful in so many ways, yet how is it possible that a game with such excellent design 'bones' is still messing around with such abysmally bad combat resolution rules 46 years after publication of the first edition? I feel like you could put your thumb over the official and published alternate combat rules and ask 100 people to fill in the blank with their own and you would get 100 better systems than what is available. I know this sounds super harsh, but it comes from a place of love (seriously!). This game would be approximately 10^14 times more fun to play if they would just fix this in some simple, obvious way.
 

AsenRG

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Thanks for the tip. I read most of it in the 'teaser' file available on DTRPG; my initial reaction is 'Thanks; I hate it!'. It is somehow just as abstract and swingy and full of statistical potholes as the original rules, yet now super complex, slow and counter intuitive.

I seriously don't understand what is going on in the T&T community. The game is wonderful in so many ways, yet how is it possible that a game with such excellent design 'bones' is still messing around with such abysmally bad combat resolution rules 46 years after publication of the first edition? I feel like you could put your thumb over the official and published alternate combat rules and ask 100 people to fill in the blank with their own and you would get 100 better systems than what is available. I know this sounds super harsh, but it comes from a place of love (seriously!). This game would be approximately 10^14 times more fun to play if they would just fix this in some simple, obvious way.
Well, if I was one of those people, you'd get stunts-based combat out of the official rules:thumbsup:. And I suspect this might have already happened in many, many groups.
And many people might well prioritize "simple" over "statistically balanced".
 

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I'm sure there are lots of house rules that get combat running really well; there is so much to build on that it would be hard to fail. But RAW is not just 'statistically unbalanced' - it is a train wreck. Everyone who has played the game knows that RAW leads to a nearly 100% chance of a fight that is either a complete walk over (enough so that rolling the dice is pointless) or a complete deadlock (similarly pointless). I've got my own house rule fixes and I'll bet all of you do too. But it is, like, a game design war crime that it never got sorted out at some point in the ~10 official editions and official house rule offerings.
 

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I'm sure there are lots of house rules that get combat running really well; there is so much to build on that it would be hard to fail. But RAW is not just 'statistically unbalanced' - it is a train wreck. Everyone who has played the game knows that RAW leads to a nearly 100% chance of a fight that is either a complete walk over (enough so that rolling the dice is pointless) or a complete deadlock (similarly pointless). I've got my own house rule fixes and I'll bet all of you do too. But it is, like, a game design war crime that it never got sorted out at some point in the ~10 official editions and official house rule offerings.

I actually play 5th RAW. I'm always "meaning to" add skills from Deluxe and "Spite Abilities" for monsters from 7th, but I haven't done so yet. In fact, I rarely bother adding the ".5" stuff from 5.5. Not trying to be argumentative, that's just how I do it.

I'm honestly more the kind of guy who just won't play games whose flaws I can't live with. And some of my favorite games are flawed.

I'm also too lazy to write my own adventures/rules.

Not saying that anyone else here is wrong, I've just come to the conclusion that most systems have a few warts, but so did Lemmy and I loved that guy like a fat man loves cake.

 
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Gringnr

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Stunts as I've seen them are often used to do "individual" melee combat if you want to jump one orc alone; rather than hack and slash with everyone else. But it is RISKY.

I've been playing a lot of solos this week, and goddamn, they're just meatgrinders. The inherent risks of stunting don't seem that bad, considering.
 

AsenRG

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I'm sure there are lots of house rules that get combat running really well; there is so much to build on that it would be hard to fail. But RAW is not just 'statistically unbalanced' - it is a train wreck. Everyone who has played the game knows that RAW leads to a nearly 100% chance of a fight that is either a complete walk over (enough so that rolling the dice is pointless) or a complete deadlock (similarly pointless). I've got my own house rule fixes and I'll bet all of you do too. But it is, like, a game design war crime that it never got sorted out at some point in the ~10 official editions and official house rule offerings.
"Warcrime" it ain't...you know how some systems solved their issues and lost fanbase:grin:?
But yes, I've got my own houserule. Step one, you can combine multiple attributes for stunts.
Step two, you only do stunts, and the GM decides what happens.
Never failed to work for me, though I admit I haven't run it much (unlike playing solos:tongue:)!
 

AsenRG

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Could you go into a little more detail/give some examples?
Sure. Post me a monster roughly appropriate for a level 1 character and three level 1 Warrior characters, and I'd run three fights for you against it:thumbsup:!
Just make it an interesting monster, please.
 

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Puss Troll, a bubonic troll MR 50. Bursting pustules cause spite damage. Regrows 5 MR / turn as new sores and goiters are continually popping up.
 

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Mind sharing them? Legit interested.
So, the short version is that I created a short list of actions you choose among each turn of combat, which would look familiar to anyone who has played TFT or GURPS (or any number of other similarly structured games, e.g., Dragonquest, Flashing Blades, etc.). E.g., Attack, Parry, Move, Cast Spell, etc. Combatant's execute their preferred actions at their place in the order of DX scores, and anything that has a chance of failure (like an attack) is resolved using the same DX saving throw mechanics from missile weapon attacks in the standard rules. Low level characters typically only choose one action per turn and have a low level save required, but you can do two or more things per turn (stringing together attacks and parries, for example) by accepting a higher difficulty level for each roll. On a successful attack that isn't avoided or parried, you do damage , which is then reduced by armor before being applied.

This system doesn't work (at all) with MR scores, so it really is only playable if all NPC's and critters have stat blocks and armor noted.

I'm curious about the comments from people who are happy playing combat RAW. I get the love for the game, in general, and I usually play games close to RAW, at least with respect to nuts and bolts rules, because I hate crufting around with tons of house rules when I don't need to. But I literally do not understand how you are doing it in this case. A garden variety fighter who wears armor and faces a monster with a moderately high MR is stuck in a statistical logjam that I think has no solution. The PC can't score high enough to injure the monster and the monster can't score high enough to overcome armor protection. In principle, spite rules will eventually wear one or the other down, but at the cost of many turns of 'yatzee'-like die rolling. I don't get how anyone plays like this.
 

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Sure. Post me a monster roughly appropriate for a level 1 character and three level 1 Warrior characters, and I'd run three fights for you against it:thumbsup:!
Just make it an interesting monster, please.
Here ya go, chum...

NAME: Warrior 1
Level 1 Male Elf Warrior
Height: 5'9", Weight: 105 lbs.

ST: 15, IQ: 18, LK: 10
CON: 7, DEX: 15, CHR: 12
SPD: 12, POW: 9

Adds: 6, Missile Adds: 9

Wt. Possible: 1500, Wt. Carried: 110.0
Languages:
Elven (native language), Common Tongue, Dwarvish

Gold: 110 gp

__________________________

NAME: Warrior 2
Level 1 Female Fairy Warrior
Height: 0'7", Weight: 0.95 lbs.

ST: 3, IQ: 13, LK: 21
CON: 2, DEX: 13, CHR: 22
SPD: 7, POW: 13

Adds: 4, Missile Adds: 5

Wt. Possible: 300, Wt. Carried: 130.0
Languages:
Elven (native language), Common Tongue

Gold: 130 gp

___________________________

NAME: Warrior 3
Level 1 Male Hobbit Warrior
Height: 2'10", Weight: 37 lbs.

ST: 7, IQ: 14, LK: 10
CON: 36, DEX: 19, CHR: 8
SPD: 12, POW: 15

Adds: 5, Missile Adds: 12

Wt. Possible: 700, Wt. Carried: 120.0
Languages:
Hobbit (native language), Orcish, Gremlin

Gold: 120 gp

__________________________

And now for the monsters (take your pick):

Plated Minions [basically animated armor-G.]
MR: 50
Armor Hits: 12
Attack: Mailed fists (Dice per MR) or simple
weapon.
Not affected by spells/effects that require a living or undead target

____________________________

Ghoul, MR 28

_____________________________

Rats, MR 8, 1-14 appearing

....I hope that works. I tried to pick a hard, medium and possibly-easy-but-with-the-twist-of-multiple-assailants monster. Hope that's what you were looking for. And thanks.




So, the short version is that I created a short list of actions you choose among each turn of combat, which would look familiar to anyone who has played TFT or GURPS (or any number of other similarly structured games, e.g., Dragonquest, Flashing Blades, etc.). E.g., Attack, Parry, Move, Cast Spell, etc. Combatant's execute their preferred actions at their place in the order of DX scores, and anything that has a chance of failure (like an attack) is resolved using the same DX saving throw mechanics from missile weapon attacks in the standard rules. Low level characters typically only choose one action per turn and have a low level save required, but you can do two or more things per turn (stringing together attacks and parries, for example) by accepting a higher difficulty level for each roll. On a successful attack that isn't avoided or parried, you do damage , which is then reduced by armor before being applied.

This system doesn't work (at all) with MR scores, so it really is only playable if all NPC's and critters have stat blocks and armor noted.

I'm curious about the comments from people who are happy playing combat RAW. I get the love for the game, in general, and I usually play games close to RAW, at least with respect to nuts and bolts rules, because I hate crufting around with tons of house rules when I don't need to. But I literally do not understand how you are doing it in this case. A garden variety fighter who wears armor and faces a monster with a moderately high MR is stuck in a statistical logjam that I think has no solution. The PC can't score high enough to injure the monster and the monster can't score high enough to overcome armor protection. In principle, spite rules will eventually wear one or the other down, but at the cost of many turns of 'yatzee'-like die rolling. I don't get how anyone plays like this.
I've just accepted that the above conditions are a part of play. Stunting is the only solution, or some clever planning on the part of the players. I'm open to trying new solutions, which is why I'm asking about others' house rules. But at the end of the day, I don't play T&T because it's well designed (though parts of it are), I play it because it's fun. I went through a 13-round combat in Blue Frog Tavern (dat Jaquays art) last night and loved it. I freely admit that T&T is broken in places. Maybe even bad. But so what? I like a lot of bad movies and music, too. Hell, I even like some bad books.

To put the worst possible spin on it, T&T RAW, at least to me, is like a chick some guys would dismiss because she's on the heavy side. But she's cute, has a great sense of humor, is always DTF, and as far as I'm concerned, she looks damn good wearing just a t-shirt and eyeliner. You guys have fun clubbing, I'm staying in.

Oh, and the above characters were generated using the Eposic T&T 5e (though it works for 7 as well, or, well, probably any edition) character generator. You can also make fully statted monsters with it.

 
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