Ugh, moral nausea seeping into my hobby-thoughts

[RunningLaser]

This makes me think that there should be a Hallmark RPG.... or something heavily inspired by it.

 

[opaopajr]

Who wants to run a PbP of assault rifle-toting nuns wearing mirrorshades saving Christmas in a small town through pluck & the spirit of giving?

edit: The assault rifles are parseley, just for looks. 'Subvert the expectations' of Chekov's Gun.

 

[Shipyard Locked]

Maybe you could use some more light-hearted RPG material. Also you just might not be in the mood.

Yeah, part of the issue is that I've been running a Ravenloft campaign for several months now. It has been wildly successful and very rewarding, but I'm also channeling a lot of loathsome vibes through the NPCs and moral dilemmas.

Like maybe give a bear and pretzels game like the original OG a try

 

[ffilz]

Want to feel better? Want to see what kind of happiness and love and all the fuzzy goodness that can exist in human society?

Watch Hallmark movies!!!

My mom went on a crazy Hallmark movie watching spree over the holidays. I realize that most of them are very predictable, and there is a lot of cheese in them. I'll tell you what though, especially the newer ones, are extremely touching. They have a lot of heartfelt moments, and more humor than I figured they would. Frankly, I enjoyed more of them than I thought I would. Maybe it's just the fact that I am getting older, but I found several of them quite enjoyable.

DAMMIT!!! Why did you make me admit that!?!?!

Anyway. If you want a good laugh and want to be reminded of the good in humans. Watch some Hallmark movies. They are a good reminder of what good there is in the hoomans!

I could never watch just Hallmark movies, but I don't think I've ever felt one was a waste of time after watching. Sure, they're pretty predictable, but they are well done and easily pass the time.

 

[AsenRG]

Can't sleep, but I have to work tomorrow somehow. Ugh.
I'm sure you can guess why.
Sick and tired of the real world, the real people and their nasty little cultures doing horrid things to each other.

Then I go and run adventures in supposed fantasy worlds full of fake people with nasty little cultures doing horrid things to each other.
Doesn't matter if it's an elf or a dwarf or an orc or whatever. It's still just people, in flimsy makeup, murdering and getting murdered. A race to oblivion.

How's that for escapism?

Sure, somebody throws out a justification for it at some point, compares it to some real-world situation. They're trying to keep it all fun, but it still feels sordid at times like this.

I'm supposed to prepare a sandbox for later this year. I haven't been able to emotionally commit to any creative direction for it and I think I'm figuring out one reason why. Maybe I'm sick of human and practically human cultures and antagonists. Maybe I don't want to inhabit their self-righteous vileness this year. But it's kind of hard to populate a region without the populace, warts and all.

I'm not quitting my life hobby or anything, it's just all so frustrating, nauseating. Maybe I shouldn't be writing this late and this sleep deprived, but I'm hoping it will exorcise the demons of my battered moral compass long enough for me to get some shut eye.

Just as a random suggestion, have you considered Ninja Burger?

 

[TristramEvans]

 

[Black Vulmea]

How's that for escapism?

I wrestled with violence in roleplaying games, both in- and out-of-character, many times.

It was part of the impetus behind the d20 Modern search-and-rescue campaign I ran years ago, where the emphasis was on skill checks, not combat rolls, on saving people, not slaughtering them. It's also tied into a campaign I never ran but thought about for going on twenty years now, called Peacekeepers, where the player characters are UN blue berets, NGO personnel - non-governmental organizations like International Red Cross/Crescent, Médecins Sans Frontières, &c - or news reporters with the explicit goal of preventing violence, rather than perpetrating it.

In fact, now that I think about it, that would make a terrific hack for the new edition of Twilight: 2000 . . .

 

[Raleel]

Who wants to run a PbP of assault rifle-toting nuns wearing mirrorshades saving Christmas in a small town through pluck & the spirit of giving?

edit: The assault rifles are parseley, just for looks. 'Subvert the expectations' of Chekov's Gun.

Shadowrun: Home for the Holidays - where mom bakes you cookies that look like cyberarms.

superheroes is another excellent option.

 

[David Johansen]

I can’t say I agree. You are a lot more likely to see the atrocities of war (mass civilian casualties among other things) in a WWII setting. G.I.Joe (and even Cobra) members were going around indiscriminately killing people.

No, atrocities are a reality of war and violence. It's a bit like the issue of Flames of War rulebooks neglecting to mention SS atrocities. I believe that we need to interact with the idea of violence through entertainment because we have the capacity for violence and the need to understand it. In GI Joe (cartoons not movies) you see people firing guns and missiles at each other and nobody ever gets hurt and it always boils down to a fist fight and the bad guys always run away and the good guys always win. Yes the bad guys try to do bad things but they fail. In the real world we usually let the bad guys get away with bad things for a while before acting because we know that violence is an atrocity in and of itself.

But I picked Saving Private Ryan because it's pretty realistic and tries to approach its topic with some sensitivity. I think some of the action movies out there are much worse than GI Joe. Violence for violence's sake gore for gore's sake, unstoppable heroes who are morally horrible. Oddly enough, First Blood, the first Rambo movie is pretty good. On re-watching it last year, it blew my mind, he doesn't kill a single person. There is a guy being incredibly foolhardy who falls out of a helicopter and some guys who get hospitalized by booby traps but it's actually really tame by modern standards.

 

[EmperorNorton]

No, atrocities are a reality of war and violence. It's a bit like the issue of Flames of War rulebooks neglecting to mention SS atrocities. I believe that we need to interact with the idea of violence through entertainment because we have the capacity for violence and the need to understand it. In GI Joe (cartoons not movies) you see people firing guns and missiles at each other and nobody ever gets hurt and it always boils down to a fist fight and the bad guys always run away and the good guys always win. Yes the bad guys try to do bad things but they fail. In the real world we usually let the bad guys get away with bad things for a while before acting because we know that violence is an atrocity in and of itself.

I mean, the cartoons have always been kind of crap, but honestly the cartoons are the only part of the GI Joe IP that I think have felt that way. Old Marvel Comics and the IDW comics are much more realistic about war.

I mean in an old Marvel comic, there was entire issue devoted to Dusty carrying an injured soldier across the desert as the last two survivors of a battle, because he promised the guys mom he'd bring him home, only to find out that he had been carrying and talking to a corpse most of the way when he gets to allied forces.

 

[David Johansen]

Don't get me wrong, GI Joe has a lot of potential. The idea of a home grown terrorist group lead by a used car salesman is pretty relevant and gets rid of many of the issues with using Russians, Arabs, and Koreans as bad guys. I only read a few issues of the comic and they were pretty good. The live action movies, were not.

 

[Endless Flight]

No, atrocities are a reality of war and violence. It's a bit like the issue of Flames of War rulebooks neglecting to mention SS atrocities. I believe that we need to interact with the idea of violence through entertainment because we have the capacity for violence and the need to understand it. In GI Joe (cartoons not movies) you see people firing guns and missiles at each other and nobody ever gets hurt and it always boils down to a fist fight and the bad guys always run away and the good guys always win. Yes the bad guys try to do bad things but they fail. In the real world we usually let the bad guys get away with bad things for a while before acting because we know that violence is an atrocity in and of itself.

Oh, you are talking about the 80s cartoons. There was a particular set of circumstances back then that was the reason why that was. Prior to the early 80s, there was restrictions on what kinds of cartoons could be shown on TV in the US. Cartoons could not be used for advertising of a toy product. Hasbro most likely pushed for that to be relaxed and the Reagan administration loosened up the restrictions. When G.I.Joe was allowed to be put in production, I don’t think Hasbro and Sunbow wanted to dial up the violence to 11 seeing as how they just managed to get the restrictions relaxed to allow the cartoon to exist in the first place. Therefore you have guys jumping out of helicopters with parachutes and laser rifles instead of bullets.

If you are talking about the comics, there was all kinds of consequences of violence written by Larry Hama.

 

[Charlie D]

This video helps me mellow out:

 

[David Johansen]

If you are talking about the comics, there was all kinds of consequences of violence written by Larry Hama.

Fair enough. I over think this stuff because I come from a pretty religious background and have always felt the need to justify my interests. I always find it ironic that I used to get flamed on rpg.net for suggesting that less T&A would help rpgs find a wider audience. My how the times have changed.

Really, it's a funny thing. I don't mind violence in Warner Brothers cartoons. I do think sometimes kids need to be reminded that it's funny because they're modelling antisocial behaviour. But the GI Joe cartoon happens to have a military theme and a relatively realistic style, it makes a difference to me, I guess.

Still, the final choice about the content of your games is you. You can turn off the TV, boycott the book, and skip the movie but with an rpg it's more like choosing not to make the TV show, write the book, or produce the movie. I'm not a big fan of the "it's just a game" argument but it is just a game, never the less.

 

[Ossian]

Shipyard Locked, what is your purpose in gaming? I wonder if it would be helpful to identify that. I teach at a Christian Classical School, and in that educational movement the goal of the education is not for utilitarian purposes, but rather educating towards virtue. We read the great books in order to study virtue. I wondered if my gaming could be similar. Was it just for fun alone, or could there be a higher purpose for it. Discussing JRR Tolkein's essay "On Fairy Stories" and thinking about the purpose of story, I decided that I could use a setting with a rich backstory, full of legends, that could inspire the characters to a heroic ideal. I love the idea of a dark world with such a history, where the characters are the good guys. I find Aihrde by Troll Lord Games fits that quite nicely. The dark lord won in that world, and ruled for 1000 years, and was only overthrown a generation ago. The world is teeming with the dark lords minions, but the stories of the overthrow and other stories that came before can be used to inspire new heroes.

 

[Ossian]

Also, you might check out the Roleplay Rescue podcast. The host often gets philosophical about RPGs, and I find it very helpful in my own thinking about them. https://anchor.fm/rpgrescue

 

[Trippy]

You should pick up a copy of the old Cyberpunk 2020, and remind yourself of the bright future the world could have been right now.

 

[CRKrueger]

You should pick up a copy of the old Cyberpunk 2020, and remind yourself of the bright future the world could have been right now.

They got it right, except for the date.

 

[Trippy]

They got it right, except for the date.

Their vision was right for 1991?

 

[CRKrueger]

Their vision was right for 1991?

Accuracy of tech predictions is rarely accurate...and always the least important and interesting aspect of a comparison 30 years later. That’s what lets TechGeek idiots claim that Cyberpunk is quaint and outdated while they’re blissfully living through the “How it Got This Fucked Up” chapter working for the baby versions of the existential evil of most Cyberpunk settings.

 

[EmperorNorton]

You should pick up a copy of the old Cyberpunk 2020, and remind yourself of the bright future the world could have been right now.

Honestly feel like we got most of the bad shit from CP2020 without any of the cool stuff. I just want my cybereye. I miss being able to see out of my right eye so much some days.

 

[Endless Flight]

Accuracy of tech predictions is rarely accurate...and always the least important and interesting aspect of a comparison 30 years later. That’s what lets TechGeek idiots claim that Cyberpunk is quaint and outdated while they’re blissfully living through the “How it Got This Fucked Up” chapter working for the baby versions of the existential evil of most Cyberpunk settings.

When we were kids, we wondered if people in 2020 were going to be wearing one piece jumpsuits while driving their hover cars around.

What can I say? The Jetsons was influential.

 

[Trippy]

Accuracy of tech predictions is rarely accurate...and always the least important and interesting aspect of a comparison 30 years later. That’s what lets TechGeek idiots claim that Cyberpunk is quaint and outdated while they’re blissfully living through the “How it Got This Fucked Up” chapter working for the baby versions of the existential evil of most Cyberpunk settings.

To be sure, I was making most of my references to the culture of the time - I think Cyberpunk literature, as with most science fiction, is mostly a reflection of the culture and prevalent attitudes of the time, albeit projected into the future. That said, I only managed to read Underground for the first time a few years ago and thought ‘man, they really got this quite close’.

 

[PolarBlues]

This video helps me mellow out:

Don't do it! I know about that video. First you watch it, then you get a telephone call telling you have seven days and you have to scramble to make a copy and show it to someone else sit through the entire Twilght series!

 

[Silverlion]

I enjoy superhero games, but even in my games violence isn't always a solution to a problem. (Once i had a 4 year old Hulk equivalent wrecking havoc, and one PC turned into a panther as his power--so he just became a big kitty to calm the kid down.)

One of the things I like about gaming is that sometimes (depending on players) you can choose offer true freedom of choice, reward heroism, good stuff i.e big damn heroes and you can change the nature of the game. Run a sandbox? Sure, but make sure the sandbox has lots of cool, interesting, character interactions. doesn't need to be dark at all.

Make them ambassadors in an SF campaign--first contact ambassadors. Or SF doctor's without borders. Sandbox is about exploration, it doesn't have to be about combat. Or make them census takers for a fantasy land--they're main job is to assess how many of each race/species are in a given location. You don't have to make everything hostile--oh sure they might have to struggle through creepy forests, find a way to get an audience with a lich, or convince a dragon they just want to know its name and if it has a mate or how many kobolds are in its retinue.

One of my favorite ideas for a game is SF insurance fraud investigators--your job is to hunt down the truth. Did aliens really steal a nuclear reactor? Did the locals hide it to get a payout? They don't have to be violent, just figure out the truth. I mean if you want occasional violence that's okay too.

I mean my often hiatus-ed Farflung gamed (dang it Tuesdays why do you mess up my health!) Is mostly exploration, following a bucket list one pc has (who's tying to convince the other strange lifeform to have his own bucket list. The closest thing to a fight they had was driving off a deep hyperspace predator that is surprisingly like an immense energy eating angler fish. (It feeds on these things that eat stars.) They didn't know the star-eaters were sapient. It's been a wild ride. Sure some of the playable classes (playbooks) are definitely more combat leaning but that's not how the game has gone.

 

[AsenRG]

Aihrde seems an interesting setting.

And violence is a constant struggle when running some combat-centric genres that I like. The key question is: can a swashbuckler or xia safely defeat an enemy without killing?
And the different games give very different answers.
Flashing Blades says no, unless you use suboptimal attacks or get lucky. Age of Wuxia and Wondering Heroes of Ogre Gate said yes.
The feel of the game changes immensely depending on the answer,though!

I always find it ironic that I used to get flamed on rpg.net for suggesting that less T&A would help rpgs find a wider
that less T&A would help rpgs find a wider audience.

On TBP? I'd have thought that the chorus would be on your side, actually!
And just to be clear, I think your idea isn't exactly correct, but that's besides the scope of this thread, nor is it a topic I particularly want to rehash.

 

[Black Vulmea]

Flashing Blades says no, unless you use suboptimal attacks or get lucky.

Parry then vicious kick is far from sub-optimal; a boot to the junk tends to settle a lot of arguments. Follow it with a disarm and the battle's over before it starts.

The only thing suboptimal are characters who don't invest in Brawling skill. Any attack which consistently produces a stun offers a considerable advantage.

 

[AsenRG]

Parry then vicious kick is far from sub-optimal; a boot to the junk tends to settle a lot of arguments. Follow it with a disarm and the battle's over before it starts.

The only thing suboptimal are characters who don't invest in Brawling skill. Any attack which consistently produces a stun offers a considerable advantage.

Yeah, but Brawl is harder to get for PCs that come from the noble background, and my group has a preference for those.

 

[Charlie D]

Don't do it! I know about that video. First you watch it, then you get a telephone call telling you have seven days and you have to scramble to make a copy and show it to someone else sit through the entire Twilght series!

No worries. This guy watched the video and he's fine. Yeah, maybe he shouldn't have watched the whole Twilight series. Fair point.

 

[arjunstc]

I teach at a Christian Classical School, and in that educational movement the goal of the education is not for utilitarian purposes, but rather educating towards virtue. We read the great books in order to study virtue.

I learned long ago that virtue is the trait that, if it exists in others, benefits you.

 

[Ladybird]

You should pick up a copy of the old Cyberpunk 2020, and remind yourself of the bright future the world could have been right now.

Nah, I'm not into period dramas.

 

[arjunstc]

Accuracy of tech predictions is rarely accurate...

2021: Let's inject viral mRNA into everyone to save civilisation as we know and love

2031:

 

[Ladybird]

2021: Let's inject viral mRNA into everyone to save civilisation as we know and love

2031:

View attachment 25486

I genuinely can't tell whether you think this is a good or a bad thing

 

[Séadna]

Kind of related but there's really cool research showing about 8% of our genome is viral DNA incorporated from viruses that plagued our pre-human ancestors.

 

[Nobby-W]

Nah, I'm not into period dramas.

I dunno. Anne Hathaway as Molly Millions ...

 

[Shipyard Locked]

Shipyard Locked, what is your purpose in gaming? I wonder if it would be helpful to identify that.

In no particular order:
- To amuse my friends
- To master an art form
- To simulate genres I enjoy soaking in
- To play out interesting strategic and tactical scenarios
- To give my brain something to mull over when the only thing I can do is think
- To save money (yes really, this activity is much cheaper than other things I would like to do)
- To enjoy the praise I receive from others for a job well done

I love the idea of a dark world with such a history, where the characters are the good guys.

I can get behind that. My current Ravenloft campaign is explicitly about giving the players the free will to decide if they are going to do good, wind up in a state of purgatory or end up damned. I'm not a believer, but I've leaned very hard into Christian themes for this one, something that regularly takes my secular New York crew by surprise.

Like I said however, this has required me to write and then perform some pretty awful people for the player characters to work against. I'm pleased to note the players have mostly made good moral choices (as defined by Gothic horror tropes), but I'm still stuck inhabiting the Evil (capital E) people until I wrap this up in about six or seven sessions.

I'm reminded of Warhammer 40k's solitaires, eldars who must perform the role of Slaneesh in their culture's epic plays. It's not something done lightly, but someone has to so the others can shine by contrast.

(Shit, is this starting to get unbearably pretentious? Let me know.)

 

[PolarBlues]

2021: Let's inject viral mRNA into everyone to save civilisation as we know and love

2031:

View attachment 25486

This advert was apporved by the Umbrella Corporaion.

 

[CRKrueger]

To be sure, I was making most of my references to the culture of the time - I think Cyberpunk literature, as with most science fiction, is mostly a reflection of the culture and prevalent attitudes of the time, albeit projected into the future. That said, I only managed to read Underground for the first time a few years ago and thought ‘man, they really got this quite close’.

That’s one of the things about Cyberpunk games, they have to be specific in a way novels do not. As a result, you get a lot of Alt-Future History and while most of them have been good on broad strokes, they all have parts that they nailed.

I disagree to a certain degree about Cyberpunk being your standard Science Fiction Time Mirror. Sure, giant mutant monsters = fear of radiation and nuclear war, gotcha. I’m not so sure that Cyberpunk fits that bill. Sure, at the time it looked like Japan was going to be the world’s next great economy, now it looks like China, it might end up to be India. What’s more important, the one who comes next, or the fact that the US took itself off the dais and how?

What does it mean to be human in the face of a dramatically disruptive technological revolution is a universal question I think, as are the eternal problems of authority vs. freedom and the rich vs. everyone else.

 

[CRKrueger]

I dunno. Anne Hathaway as Molly Millions ...

Va va voom!

 

[Ladybird]

I dunno. Anne Hathaway as Molly Millions ...

You make a good point.