WandaVision Spoiler Thread

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Based on articles talking about her and the amount of fan-made videos of her that keep showing up in my Youtube recommendations, there is a lot of Darcy love out there. I would not be surprised at all if a spin-off series is already being talked about at Disney, and Jimmy would be a natural addition to the cast.

There is a lot of talk about a Jimmy and Darcy “X-Files in the MCU” series from fans and it seems to be getting some traction. I expect Disney/Marvel are aware.

Hopefully, the success of WandaVision makes it clear to them that there’s an audience for quirkier concepts, and they give the idea a try.
 
Count me in. That was one thing I liked about the 1st season of Agents of SHIELD- the fact that it was lightweight. It wasn't world ending stuff. Don't get me wrong... the later seasons are vastly superior. But the stakes are always through the roof.
Yes. The execution of season one was weak, but I liked the concept of a case-of-the-week show in the MCU.
 
Yes. The execution of season one was weak, but I liked the concept of a case-of-the-week show in the MCU.

I think it was a victim of the schism between Perlmutter and Feige, and Feige not really wanting to give up the goods on Winter Soldier until the last minute. I think I remember finding out that they didn't get the notes on the big switch until late in the game, and until then they were flailing around with the concept.
 
I think it was a victim of the schism between Perlmutter and Feige, and Feige not really wanting to give up the goods on Winter Soldier until the last minute. I think I remember finding out that they didn't get the notes on the big switch until late in the game, and until then they were flailing around with the concept.
That was definitely an issue, and the show actually did a good job of handling something that so drastically upset the initial premise of the show. However, I was disappointed that the show almost completely abandoned an episodic structure for long story arcs after that.
 
A lot of people these days are convinced that season (or even multi-season) story arcs are the only valid form of doing a television series... which is part of the reason why I don't watch as much TV these days as I used to. Not that there shouldn't be room for that sort of thing - I will always loves me some Babylon 5 - but while long-term storytelling can give more room for intricate plotting and gradual character development, it's also prone to needless meandering and subplots whose only purpose is to fill time.

(compare to 'writing for the trade' in comics as desired)

Sometimes it's hard to beat the tightness of a good one-and-done episode.
 
That was definitely an issue, and the show actually did a good job of handling something that so drastically upset the initial premise of the show. However, I was disappointed that the show almost completely abandoned an episodic structure for long story arcs after that.

I think it is because crafting unique episodic shows with no overarching themes is a lot harder. Look at how stale monster/case of the week shows get in general. SVU is one of the few case of the week shows that I still watch because of that, and I don't watch that religiously. Smallville got really boring in the meteor-freak-of-of-the-week phase, as did Buffy and Angel during their monster-of-the-week phase. People complained about that, and we got more meta-plots. There's also the Firefly effect. Whedon started out with disconnected stories, so Fox took him at his word, even though personalities changed and there was growth during these unconnected stories. When you watch them in order, you see the growth and changes, even without a metaplot (or with it inserted sporadically). Out of order, these changes seem out of place, and references fall flat.
 
I think that, ideally, a show will allow both things to happen. So that there may be some kind of ongoing story arc, but at the same time there are shorter bits that are resolved on an episodic basis. Or that they at least take a break from the ongoing stuff to do a one and done type episode now and again. I like when an episode of a show feels like a complete thing on its own, to some extent. Like this episode is about X, and it's complete in some way, even if it is part of a longer story.

I also think that American based shows need to adopt a less specific format for a season. I don't think every single show needs to be 10 or 13 episodes. Some should be, some maybe only need 4 or 7 or whatever. I feel like a lot of fat could be trimmed if they adopted that approach. It happens sometimes, but more often I feel like a series could do with fewer episodes.
 
I think it is because crafting unique episodic shows with no overarching themes is a lot harder. Look at how stale monster/case of the week shows get in general. SVU is one of the few case of the week shows that I still watch because of that, and I don't watch that religiously. Smallville got really boring in the meteor-freak-of-of-the-week phase, as did Buffy and Angel during their monster-of-the-week phase. People complained about that, and we got more meta-plots. There's also the Firefly effect. Whedon started out with disconnected stories, so Fox took him at his word, even though personalities changed and there was growth during these unconnected stories. When you watch them in order, you see the growth and changes, even without a metaplot (or with it inserted sporadically). Out of order, these changes seem out of place, and references fall flat.
That's a good point, but it is somewhat ironic that episodic shows are falling by the wayside at a time when they only have to come up with 8-12 plots a year, as opposed to 22-24.

There is a way to balance the two formulas as well. I think The Mandalorian did an impressive job with that. It had an arc, but most episodes felt like complete, satisfying episodes within that story, giving you a beginning and ending.
 
I think that, ideally, a show will allow both things to happen. So that there may be some kind of ongoing story arc, but at the same time there are shorter bits that are resolved on an episodic basis. Or that they at least take a break from the ongoing stuff to do a one and done type episode now and again. I like when an episode of a show feels like a complete thing on its own, to some extent. Like this episode is about X, and it's complete in some way, even if it is part of a longer story.

The now semi-derogatory term 'filler episode' refers to these. And how most viewers use that term regarding the overall show tells how most feel about those. Even in the 13 episode seasons of Netflix Defenders shows, there was a lack of focus in the middle episodes, and everyone referred to those as filler episodes. The shorter shows we see now (WandaVision, The Boys, The Expanse, etc) don't seem to have that problem. They have to tell tighter stories because of their limited episodes. There's a danger in that though (The GoT S8 problem)- if they make the season too short, there will be too much story for the number of episodes.

I also think that American based shows need to adopt a less specific format for a season. I don't think every single show needs to be 10 or 13 episodes. Some should be, some maybe only need 4 or 7 or whatever. I feel like a lot of fat could be trimmed if they adopted that approach. It happens sometimes, but more often I feel like a series could do with fewer episodes.

Oh, I totally agree. There are reports that the CW will move to shorter seasons with the same aesthetics as Superman & Lois for each individual episode, and I say bring it on. This allows for less filler episodes and more story.
 
I also think that American based shows need to adopt a less specific format for a season. I don't think every single show needs to be 10 or 13 episodes. Some should be, some maybe only need 4 or 7 or whatever. I feel like a lot of fat could be trimmed if they adopted that approach. It happens sometimes, but more often I feel like a series could do with fewer episodes.
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier is going to be six episodes, Disney+ seems to be on top of that.
 
There is a way to balance the two formulas as well. I think The Mandalorian did an impressive job with that. It had an arc, but most episodes felt like complete, satisfying episodes within that story, giving you a beginning and ending.

I think that's because of the more limited episodes. It had to tell a tighter story that was easy to follow and had no space for excess episodes in its narrative. Each episode contributes to an overall arc, even if they don't seem to at the time. Looking back over the season, you can see the aspects of each story that build on the story being told.
 
I get the filler episode complaint. I think it really depends on the series.

Madalorian is a good example. It's very episodic, but does have the overarching story of the child and what to do with him. But there are a lot of episodes that are merely steps toward that overall goal, and they worked on that level.

But then, when it came to the start of season 2, after the first few episodes, I was kind of like "this is pretty good, but it feels a bit formulaic" and then right on time, they pulled things together and that momentum carried things forward and the season was solid.

So I think it's kind of a case by case decision that needs to be made. WandaVision hasn't suffered from this at all. They have a shtick with the whole "sitcom through the decades" angle, but they didn't have any issue with breaking that pattern for episode 4. And no episode so far has felt like it didn't move the story forward in some meaningful way.

I think the closest episode to that description would probably be the second episode. The first was the least enjoyable for me, but it had to kind of establish the basic concept. The second episode just seems to establish it more, without really moving things forward. I wouldn't call either one filler though, because they're so foundational to what follows.
 
I also think that American based shows need to adopt a less specific format for a season. I don't think every single show needs to be 10 or 13 episodes. Some should be, some maybe only need 4 or 7 or whatever. I feel like a lot of fat could be trimmed if they adopted that approach. It happens sometimes, but more often I feel like a series could do with fewer episodes.

That won't happen on network television. They have blocks they need to fill, and advertising budgets they need to make. They need more trackable and amortizable schedules for the expenses incurred on the shows.
 
That won't happen on network television. They have blocks they need to fill, and advertising budgets they need to make. They need more trackable and amortizable schedules for the expenses incurred on the shows.

Oh, I get that for sure. I think they'd likely be smart to reexamine exactly how they do all that because things are changing.

For me, I don't think there are any network shows left that I watch, honestly. The few that I do watch I do so through streaming services later on, really. Things like Flash or maybe old sitcoms like Community or The Office. Other than a few things like that, I feel like network TV is a pretty barren landscape.

We still have cable, but we're constantly questioning why. At this point, it seems a matter of habit. But I think we're gonna ditch it soon. Sports seem to be the only possible reason against it, but I'm a casual fan so it's not a big deal for me.
 
Oh, I get that for sure. I think they'd likely be smart to reexamine exactly how they do all that because things are changing.

For me, I don't think there are any network shows left that I watch, honestly. The few that I do watch I do so through streaming services later on, really. Things like Flash or maybe old sitcoms like Community or The Office. Other than a few things like that, I feel like network TV is a pretty barren landscape.

We still have cable, but we're constantly questioning why. At this point, it seems a matter of habit. But I think we're gonna ditch it soon. Sports seem to be the only possible reason against it, but I'm a casual fan so it's not a big deal for me.

Disney+ with ESPN+ seems like it would cover the sports angle to a large part.

I watch quite a few on network TV. I could watch a lot of it elsewhere, but they've configured their packages for cable cutters at this point- I'd actually have been paying more if I cut the cable than by staying with it.
 
I think that, ideally, a show will allow both things to happen. So that there may be some kind of ongoing story arc, but at the same time there are shorter bits that are resolved on an episodic basis. Or that they at least take a break from the ongoing stuff to do a one and done type episode now and again. I like when an episode of a show feels like a complete thing on its own, to some extent. Like this episode is about X, and it's complete in some way, even if it is part of a longer story.
I agree. A good 'filler' episode can be used to show you elements of characterization that more arc-driven episodes usually can't, simply because it's not as beholden to a larger storyline. A good example of this is the BtVS episode 'The Zeppo', which gave insights into Xander's character that we might not have been able to get otherwise.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I really liked Darcy in her escape artists suit. Like, really, really liked it. Okay, I'll shut up now.
it's not just you
"For you Darcy, it's an Escape Artist's suit, or nothing at all!

And I just so happen to have no Escape Artist's suit in my apartment.."
it wasn't just you.
Not particularly drawn to the escape artist costume but Kat Dennings under just about any attire definitely has my attention.
It occurs to me, not for the first time, that pick-up lines in a superhero universe can probably get pretty weird.

"Agent Woo, Agent Lewis, I suspect I am, in fact, a sentient weapon. You're going to have to investigate me, of course... preferably at the same time. Your place or mine?"
 
I wouldn't call it a "clip show", as all the clips were new.

I guess they want a different origin for Agatha in the MCU. Rather than "New Salem", she was around in the original Salem times, and I liked the twist at the beginning ("Are you a Witch"). This version seems antagonistic--I say seems because there's been so many twists here. Something about the "can't help it" she talked about with her powers makes me wonder. I don't think there's any analog in the comics for what they are doing -- the closest thing was there was once a version in the Ultimate universe who was younger and was an avatar of something else--I highly doubt they're taking inspiration from Ultimate FF though.

My best guess, is like the Vulture being Liz Allen's Dad, or in Arrow when they had Adrian Chase show up at the same time the Vigilante did and the Vigilante turned out to be a completely different person, it's one of those things they change so the comics folks don't know all the plot and can have some surprises.

So it does turn out that Wanda was a fan of these sitcoms, family movie night with Dad and Mom Maximoff. I just kind of wish they had hinted at that in any of the movies. I also did like, even though it was brief, some background on how she and Vision connected with each other.

I'm not sure where they are going with "The Scarlet Witch"...obviously there's some legendary figure in magic. And I guess they are leaning to her being a full mage, as her powers in the comics have always been chaotic (pun intended here). Both the apparition shown by the Mind Stone and even perhaps the crown on Agatha's Mom's head hint that the classic headband has some purpose.

I found the most interesting twist with SWORD--turns out Wanda didn't "steal" the Vision, like her kids, Vision was created out of whole cloth in the Hex, and SWORD just wanted to steal it. They are definitely cribbing from Byrne's Vision Quest--from the way the body was dismantled, the government assholes and how they treated the Vision as a thing, not a person--to the mid-credits reveal of the pale ghostly Vision--even the kids leashed by Agatha feels a little like the Master Pandemonium grabbing the twins and integrating them with herself.

Main disappointment is this episode left the rest of the cast out--but it was kind of needed since we really needed an episode focused on Wanda outside of the sitcom personas she was trying to mimic.

One episode left--probably going to clock in about an hour to wrap things up...can't wait!
 
I wouldn't call it a "clip show", as all the clips were new.

Agreed, to a point. However, given that most clip shows were a way of networks saving money, WV didn't have that restriction. So they were able to recontextualise our understanding through looking at the past. Given Wanda's sitcom fixation is probably the closest we're going to get to a clip show (even if those clips were original footage
.
 
Community did the "clipshow but with all new clips" thing as well a while back
 
Community did the "clipshow but with all new clips" thing as well a while back
And unlike a normal clip episode, it was one of the most expensive episodes, although a lot of the cost came from the the montages using the song “Gravity”.

I guess repeated mention of Community in this thread aren't surprising as both shows are examinations of the sitcom format.

Also, that Clerks animated series from the '90s did the fake clip show thing. I think it was even the first episode just to add to the ridiculousness.

So to actually address this episode, I'm glad they stuck with Wanda being the primary driving force behind the illusion. I like having Agatha as a complicating factor, but it would have been too much of a rug pull to completely take responsibility for everything away from Wanda. It was a surprisingly powerful episode this week. I'm invested.

It's got me wanting to watch Age of Ultron again, as I was indifferent to it when I first saw it.

It's an interesting model Disney+ is going with of having one heavily-hyped series running at a time, as opposed to the Netflix model of throwing a whole bunch of shows out there and seeing what doesn't sink. I wonder how long they can pull it off?
 
Yeah, that was a really good episode. It pulled together a lot of little strands and set up the finale. It definitely did a good job of conveying the unending trauma Wanda’s been through.

I think I’m sad about the fact that it seems like neither Quicksilver nor Vision are likely to make it out of this. Maybe I’m wrong. Hopefully.
 
And unlike a normal clip episode, it was one of the most expensive episodes, although a lot of the cost came from the the montages using the song “Gravity”

Huh. I always assumed that song was a parody written for the show.

Also, that Clerks animated series from the '90s did the fake clip show thing. I think it was even the first episode just to add to the ridiculousness.

That's right, second episode, and all the clips were from the first episode. The only episode I actually got to see during the initial bradcast, when ABC did it's best to kill the show outright.

It's got me wanting to watch Age of Ultron again, as I was indifferent to it when I first saw it.

You know, that was the first MCU film that I walked out of the theatre feeling disappointed. Not, like it was bad, just "meh" (yes, I liked all the early ones every one hates now, like Captain America 1 and Thor 2).

But it's grown on me since then - every time I rewatch it, I like it a little more. It just feels to me like there's about a half hour of material cut out of the middle.
 
You know, (Age of Ultron) was the first MCU film that I walked out of the theatre feeling disappointed. Not, like it was bad, just "meh" (yes, I liked all the early ones every one hates now, like Captain America 1 and Thor 2).

But it's grown on me since then - every time I rewatch it, I like it a little more. It just feels to me like there's about a half hour of material cut out of the middle.

You should have seen the Zack Snyder version. ;)

JG
 
Huh. I always assumed that song was a parody written for the show.
I originally did too. Then I heard the story about how using the song put the episode way over-budget, but Dan Harmon was so insistent on in it being the perfect song for the joke that he paid all the royalties out of his own pocket.

You know, that was the first MCU film that I walked out of the theatre feeling disappointed. Not, like it was bad, just "meh" (yes, I liked all the early ones every one hates now, like Captain America 1 and Thor 2).

But it's grown on me since then - every time I rewatch it, I like it a little more. It just feels to me like there's about a half hour of material cut out of the middle.
I mentioned I was considering giving it another look to a friend of mine earlier this week, and he strongly encouraged me to give it another shot as well. I'm actually beginning to work my way through all the movies again, including all the ones I missed the first time. I just to Iron Man 2 for the first time the other night, and I'll watch the first Thor movie for the first at some point next week.
You should have seen the Zack Snyder version. ;)
Inserted without comment.
Jared-Leto-Does-Jesus-Pose-in-Justice-League-Snyder-Cut.jpg
 
Yeah, that was a really good episode. It pulled together a lot of little strands and set up the finale. It definitely did a good job of conveying the unending trauma Wanda’s been through.
Yeah, Agatha is the Little Bad of the series, it seems, with the Big Bad being Unresolved Grief And Trauma.

Also, I just remembered something.

Wanda's magic is red. The coven's magic was blue, as is the visual effect we see for Billy using his abilities. Doctor Strange, and the other magicians in the DS movie, are represented by a fiery orange spellcasting. Agatha's magic is purple.

We've seen purple magical energy once before...

Dormammu

Dormammu_Crop.png

"Agatha... I've come to bargain."
 
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That line “what is grief if not love enduring?” and the way that Paul Bettany delivered it... that hit hard!

But more importantly, that was the moment that their relationship switched from "tell" to "show". You could see it in Wanda's eyes like suddenly she saw Vision as more than an automaton and more than a person, but as someone she could deeply love.

It was honestly such a beautiful scene and so, so well done. This show is blowing away every expectation I had for it.

I just hope beyond hope that the last episode lives up to what has gone before. And though a dread the ending will be tragic, I have hopes it won't.
 
Yeah. I have a feeling some more tragedy is in store. Maaaybe to set up an eventual happy ending of some sort in the Doc Strange movie.

Till then, I think Vision’s making a go at Thomas and Martha Wayne for most death scenes.
 
Indeed. Although from what I saw a large part of the credits are for the German and Spanish dub teams.

JG
 
You get the same thing with The Mandalorian. I only find it a pain because an issue with Disney+. On my other services, if I turn off an episode during the closing credits, the next time I select the show, it starts the next episode. For some reason Disney+ says, "Oh, you want to watch the rest of the closing credits? Here you go!"
 
You get the same thing with The Mandalorian. I only find it a pain because an issue with Disney+. On my other services, if I turn off an episode during the closing credits, the next time I select the show, it starts the next episode. For some reason Disney+ says, "Oh, you want to watch the rest of the closing credits? Here you go!"

That's what fast forward is for.
 
I hate when Netflix cuts from the credits for movies with their 'what next' recs because I like to chill and absorb the film and sometimes check out music credits, etc.
 
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