WEG Star Wars

Chris Brady

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I mean, I think that requires an after-the-fact rationalization, I don't think there was any intended continuity going on. The sequels reminded me of the scene at the end of Superman II, where he just starts pulling new powers out of his butt because...reasons (cellophane expanding S-symbol, multiplication, teleportation). It all came across as very "and then this happens" style of writing.
I'll let you in on a little secret, it is exactly how it is "...And then This happens..." is a JJ Abrams staple. However, the issue is that if you use those powers as per the Disney Trilogy, you've just opened up the door to a whole slew of abilities that the Force can do. In fact, there's nothing it can't do at that point.
 

TristramEvans

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I'll let you in on a little secret, it is exactly how it is "...And then This happens..." is a JJ Abrams staple. However, the issue is that if you use those powers as per the Disney Trilogy, you've just opened up the door to a whole slew of abilities that the Force can do. In fact, there's nothing it can't do at that point.
Right, hence my "microbial mutant power generator" criticism earlier, but I guess it all comes down to individual taste. Some Star Wars fans are going to want an RPG that's going to emulate everything they've seen in modern Star Wars films, EU media, etc. In that regard, while Star Wars 1e could be adapted to do so, it certainly wasn't the original intention, because it was created in a time when fandom's conception of Star Wars overall, and the Force specifically, was way different. Rationalizing what The Force is now, if you accept the Prequels and Sequels as cannon, is just going to require a much different approac than the way I thought of the Force when I was 7 years old and Star Wars was three movies, two Ewok TV specials, and a couple of cartoons.
 

Nobby-W

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[ . . . ]
Rationalizing what The Force is now, if you accept the Prequels and Sequels as cannon, is just going to require a much different approac than the way I thought of the Force when I was 7 years old and Star Wars was three movies, two Ewok TV specials, and a couple of cartoons.
Apparently they were going to do a Christmas special as well, but that never happened for some reason.
 

Stevethulhu

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Nothing more fun than holographic wookie porn...
What's not fun about that?

The very fact that people are so negative about it is often what disguises the truth of how you people don't realise you should watch Star Wars with a large dose of self deprecating humour. It is a big budget homage.to very cheap movie serials that were literally churned out, after all.
 

James Gillen

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I think a better case would be why didn't Yoda or Kenobi use the force to help Padme as she was dying in childbirth?

But it's my personal view that once Vader choked her, he created a connection he never severed. He effectively grabbed her with the force and never released his grip. And as he was dying, he kept squeezing, desperately consuming her lifeforce due to his own fear of death. That's why the droids don't understand why she's dying. That's why when Vader wakes up he says, "but I felt her." That's why Yoda and Kenobi exchange those knowing glances. That's why jedi are to avoid personal connections and why they must "let go" of such things. Anakin couldn't let go, and crushed Padme's soul, just like he went on to crush the windpipes of so many others.
This is a theory held by others. After all, when Vader woke up and asked where Padme was, Palpatine said "It seems that in your anger, you killed her..."

JG
 

TristramEvans

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What's not fun about that?
Hey, you do you

The very fact that people are so negative about it is often what disguises the truth of how you people don't realise you should watch Star Wars with a large dose of self deprecating humour. It is a big budget homage.to very cheap movie serials that were literally churned out, after all.
I don't think I could accept this as a defense for the Star Wars Holiday Special, if such a thing actually existed
 

Necrozius

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Great conversation... for the Star Wars thread in the Media section!

Back to the RPG, (1e) how would you folks handle environmental damage (fire, cold, vacuum of space etc) in 1e without bogging things down too much? Especially for continuous damage (acid and fire burning)?
 

Stevethulhu

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Are you promoting holographic wookie porn as....a cure for depression?

I can't help but feel you may have that backwards...
I'm just helping you come to terms with the Holiday Special. It isn't great, but it is better than a lot of cartoons from the 80s that people give a free pass to.
 

Stevethulhu

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Great conversation... for the Star Wars thread in the Media section!

Back to the RPG, (1e) how would you folks handle environmental damage (fire, cold, vacuum of space etc) in 1e without bogging things down too much? Especially for continuous damage (acid and fire burning)?
I'd give it a damage code and a duration. Xd6 damage reducing by 1d6 per turn, maybe if it is something that gets less over time.
 

TristramEvans

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I'm just helping you come to terms with the Holiday Special. It isn't great, but it is better than a lot of cartoons from the 80s that people give a free pass to.
well...that's certainly an opinion...
 

Stevethulhu

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well...that's certainly an opinion...
I grew up in the 80s. It's a fact. Most of the kid's TV produced then was shit. Patronising, repetitive and often nothing more than adverts for toys.

Yet for some reason the crap gets a pass. Never understood why.
 

TristramEvans

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Ah, apparently this is some new definition of the word "fact" that I wasn't previously aware of.
 

CRKrueger

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I think a better case would be why didn't Yoda or Kenobi use the force to help Padme as she was dying in childbirth?

But it's my personal view that once Vader choked her, he created a connection he never severed. He effectively grabbed her with the force and never released his grip. And as he was dying, he kept squeezing, desperately consuming her lifeforce due to his own fear of death. That's why the droids don't understand why she's dying. That's why when Vader wakes up he says, "but I felt her." That's why Yoda and Kenobi exchange those knowing glances. That's why jedi are to avoid personal connections and why they must "let go" of such things. Anakin couldn't let go, and crushed Padme's soul, just like he went on to crush the windpipes of so many others.
I always thought that Palapatine was siphoning Padmes life away to keep Anakin alive so that he could mold him into his perfect apprentice.
Rest assured both of these reasons contained more thought than Lucas ever spent on the reason why or how.
 

Endless Flight

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So? Rey did it, and she wasn't ever trained in that ability. If she could do, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume that Anakin, the alleged Chosen One would have as well. And yes, why didn't Kenobi do it? It's like the most powerful ability in the entire universe!
There’s two versions of the same ability. Sapping people’s energy, which is a dark side ability (Palpatine used it against Rey and Ben) and then there is giving somebody part of your energy, which is light side. Anakin wasn’t in the light side state of mind at either time. Lucas even said Anakin had a possessive love with Padme. I don’t think he would have given his life for hers.
 

Endless Flight

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Tristram’s right though. They can’t go back and cleanly fix all these continuity issues forty years later. You just interpret the scenes the best you can in light of new developments or you ignore it. I usually fall back to mental state of characters at the time, like it didn’t occur to them. Sometimes people miss the obvious when they really shouldn’t.
 

CRKrueger

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There’s two versions of the same ability. Saying people’s energy, which is a dark side ability and then there is giving somebody part of your energy, which is light side. Anakin wasn’t in the light side state of mind at either time. Lucas even said Anakin had a possessive love with Padme. I don’t think he would have given his life for hers.
That’s the lousy thing about the Prequels. Anakin Skywalker‘s turn to Vader was supposed to be a tragedy, because Anakin was such a hero. The Prequel Anakin is a whiny entitled brat everyone knows is no good, but they keep him around despite knowing better because he’s the frickin’ Chosen One.
 

TristramEvans

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That’s the lousy thing about the Prequels. Anakin Skywalker‘s turn to Vader was supposed to be a tragedy, because Anakin was such a hero. The Prequel Anakin is a whiny entitled brat everyone knows is no good, but they keep him around despite knowing better because he’s the frickin’ Chosen One.
I've heard that the Clone Wars series fixes this to an extent
 

Endless Flight

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When I was a kid, I assumed Anakin was a very tall man with broad shoulders. Like Christopher Reeve, only more muscular and taller. Intimidating even when he was good. I also assumed that Padme was a sad lady who lived after the kids were separated and died a few years later kind of watching Leia like Moses’ mother did. She died of a broken heart but it wasn’t like five minutes later.
 

Chris Brady

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Tristram’s right though. They can’t go back and cleanly fix all these continuity issues forty years later. You just interpret the scenes the best you can in light of new developments or you ignore it. I usually fall back to mental state of characters at the time, like it didn’t occur to them. Sometimes people miss the obvious when they really shouldn’t.
The problem is that there's no way to fix them. Literally. Between the Force Powers being able to do everything now, and the mangling of hyperspace that literally runs counter to what we were told in the first movie (And if you're a loser lore nerd like myself, you realize that just the 'Holdo Maneuver' utterly ruins the setting because you'd think in the 15,000 years they had Hyperspace some idiot would have tried it, and then someone else would have refined it.) So we're left asking 'Which of these is Canon? They can't both as they contradict themselves, it's like Gravity deciding to change how it works with no explanation.

If the OT is canon, than everything Disney does is not. But if the Disney stuff is canon, then the OT can't be, which mess up everything. because the Disney Trilogy assumes that the OT is canon.

So all we can do in this case, is stick to what WEG put out and work with what it's based on, Which is pre-1999.
 

Endless Flight

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I don’t find this stuff as problematic as you do, Chris. I view the movies as the telling of a myth. Matching up specifics isn’t really a big deal. The Force powers are nowhere near as powerful in the sequel trilogy as they were in the EU when Lucas still owned the property. Luke was doing stuff his Last Jedi version would only dream of. The force projection was a power from that very EU that existed before 1999 anyway.
 

Stevethulhu

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I don’t find this stuff as problematic as you do, Chris. I view the movies as the telling of a myth. Matching up specifics isn’t really a big deal. The Force powers are nowhere near as powerful in the sequel trilogy as they were in the EU when Lucas still owned the property. Luke was doing stuff his Last Jedi version would only dream of. The force projection was a power from that very EU that existed before 1999 anyway.
To be fair, he movies aren't even that consistent in the OT. They really were making it up as they went. The very conception of jedi changed between Star Wars and Empire. And Lucas, despite what he has said since, really didn't have more to go on than a page or two of notes.

You want evidence of that, why else would Empire and Jedi tell the exact same story as Star Wars? And why did they go into Episode 3 with an unfinished draft, after doing 2 off a draft? As in first draft.

Anyway, I've found a document listing all the WEG Force Powers. I'll comb that for the ones I feel represent the way I see the Jedi and go from there.
 

Endless Flight

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The Tales of the Jedi Companion from 1996 has most of what we see or variations of those powers. The “Life Bond” power is very similar to what we see between Kylo and Rey and “Doppelgänger” is similar to what Luke did. Palpatine didn’t do anything that we didn’t already see in Legends.
 

Séadna

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I don’t find this stuff as problematic as you do, Chris. I view the movies as the telling of a myth. Matching up specifics isn’t really a big deal. The Force powers are nowhere near as powerful in the sequel trilogy as they were in the EU when Lucas still owned the property. Luke was doing stuff his Last Jedi version would only dream of. The force projection was a power from that very EU that existed before 1999 anyway.
Image projection is the sort of thing Taoist masters do in old texts and it's in a few Wuxia type stories, so it seems like a decent fit for Star Wars.
 

zarion

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If I remember all the novels I read. The Force IS magic, they just don't call it that. Wasn't there another magic called The White Light or something like that. And numerous seriously magical things, like the emperor reborn destroying a whole planet using force storms or something.

Also, the Holiday Special does exist! I found it on YouTube! Bwahahahaha!!!
 

Supervisor194

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If I remember all the novels I read. The Force IS magic, they just don't call it that. Wasn't there another magic called The White Light or something like that. And numerous seriously magical things, like the emperor reborn destroying a whole planet using force storms or something.

Also, the Holiday Special does exist! I found it on YouTube! Bwahahahaha!!!
 

Stevethulhu

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I don't get why it has such a bad rep, when repetitive toy adverts like GI Joe, Masters of the Universe and Transformers seem so well regarded.

Sure, it isn't going to change the world, but its an amusing piece of 70s crap. Complete with surreal wookies, buzzard song and dance routines and the first appearance of Boba Fett.

It's a time capsule and a cash in. Watch it and make your own mind up. Me, I think the hyperbole surrounding the Holiday Special makes it more, not less of a bit of classic TV.

And it makes for great troll food. You can spot those who think franchise tacked on to a 70s kids movie is Srs Bzns
 

Supervisor194

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I actually haven't watched even though I was around 12 years old when it aired. I have no memory of watching it back then. I kind do want to watch it at some point, just to see the 'amusing piece of 70s crap' side of it. :smile:
 

TristramEvans

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I actually haven't watched even though I was around 12 years old when it aired. I have no memory of watching it back then. I kind do want to watch it at some point, just to see the 'amusing piece of 70s crap' side of it. :smile:
"amusing" isn't a description I'd use for it so much as "mind-numbingly boring". Steve is pushing the weird narrative that it's reputation has something to do with people taking Star Wars seriously, which I find would make more sense if we were talking about the Star Wars episode of The Muppet show. What makes the Holiday special excrutiating to watch is more akin to watching the non-MS3T3K version of Manos Hands of Fate, than anything to do with it actually being Star Wars.

But, hey, don't take my word for it...


Steve would rather watch that then an episode of Droids, to which I can only say....diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. I mean, someone had to be a Bruce Valanche fan I guess...
 
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