western RPG on Kickstarter: Mud, Blood, & Glory

Dumarest

Vaquero de Alta California
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
11,022
Reaction score
19,370
Interesting they chose to set it in the 1880s and assume the players will "take on the role of outlaws, brigands, and bandits." Talk of the referee "curating the narrative experience" makes me wonder. The section on their "design philosophy" is completely empty of meaning. I presume they chose the 1880s so as to incorporate the most infamous outlaws, but for me personally things get less interesting once railroads and telegraphs became more commonplace and locations became less isolated, which is why I generally set Westerns in the immediate or near-intermediate aftermath of the Civil War. I'm not crazy about the Luck point concept, but it seems that would be easy to leave out. The character sheet looks nice and concise. I can't watch the video here at work: do they actually explain what the system is? The text on the page doesn't really spell out anything. I'm not clear on the "Progression" system as it seems ill-fitting for the genre for a character to keep acquiring new talents and skills; most people hit a certain level of expertise in a small number of areas and plateau, but it would depend on how much and how often a PC improves. I find it a bit odd that playing someone on the right side of the law would require additional rules and a $10,00.00 stretch goal.

"We have the game written" and "We need...further playtesting and editing, and more fantastic design" seem contradictory statements to me.

Whatever we do, let's make sure we don't fund the "Myths & Legends Expansion" as the last thing the world needs is another "Weird West" RPG. :hehe:

I wouldn't mind trying this out sometime to see how it plays when they actually have it done, but I can't say I feel any need to help fund it or buy it. I wish they put some actual content into their text to explain how the game is supposed to work and what makes it good and/or different.
 

Tommy Brownell

Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
Messages
1,531
Reaction score
2,811
I’m inclined to agree in regards to the setting. My best guess? Done to capitalize on the Red Dead Redemption fuss, which are explicitly set in the dying days of the West.
 

Picaroon Jack

And the Brothers Slack
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
Messages
656
Reaction score
1,110
I can't watch the video here at work: do they actually explain what the system is? The text on the page doesn't really spell out anything.
No, the video is vague and just has three or for bullet points. The progression system seems to be tied to your reputation where you become more and more infamous. I saw that obligatory "weird west" expansion and thought the same thing. :/
 
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
6
Reaction score
15
I also noticed very little art is previewed. I won’t invest in a Kickstarter when the creators clearly haven’t invested much of their own money.
 

3rik

invidus es nostris quoniam tu talia nescis
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
1,135
While I fully agree on obligatory "weird west" expansions, my main gripe with weird west settings usually concerns the incusion of weird tech / steam punk / alternate timeline crap, which I loathe with a passion. I can see the subtle inclusion of setting/genre-appropriate mystical/supernatural elements in a western game. Nothing that warrants a full expansion book, however.

 
Last edited:

Tommy Brownell

Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
Messages
1,531
Reaction score
2,811
While I fully agree on obligatory "weird west" expansions, my main gripe with weird west settings usually concerns the incusion of weird tech / steam punk / alternate timeline crap, which I loathe with a passion. I can see the subtle inclusion of setting/genre-appropriate mystical/supernatural elements in a western game.
Indeed. The steampunk aspect of Deadlands is the part that pops up the least in my games. I don't have an issue with the suitable supernatural stuff, though.
 

Picaroon Jack

And the Brothers Slack
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
Messages
656
Reaction score
1,110
While I fully agree on obligatory "weird west" expansions, my main gripe with weird west settings usually concerns the incusion of weird tech / steam punk / alternate timeline crap, which I loathe with a passion. I can see the subtle inclusion of setting/genre-appropriate mystical/supernatural elements in a western game. Nothing that warrants a full expansion book, however.
There's a Western hack (or at least playbooks) for Apocalypse World that has a pretty good take on the "weird west" that I appreciate. Two of playbooks are the Revenant (they're dead) and the Lone Rider (they're a horsemen of the apocalypse). They are more "mysterious/spooky west" than steampunk.
 

Endless Flight

Find Balance
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
4,765
Reaction score
8,867
Is the Lone Rider supposed to be like Clint Eastwood as the Preacher in Pale Rider?
 

Picaroon Jack

And the Brothers Slack
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
Messages
656
Reaction score
1,110
Is the Lone Rider supposed to be like Clint Eastwood as the Preacher in Pale Rider?
Exactly. Based loosely on Pale Rider. It has supreme horsemanship type moves as well as Wanderer of the Wastes which is basically a supernatural traveling move. The creepiest move is bringing your horse back from the dead.
 

Toadmaster

Legendary Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
648
Reaction score
967
Oh, boy another western game set in the most common period of the wild west and maybe with weirdness.

Rant mode engaged :shock:

I get it the 1880s had a lot going on but it has been done to death. The Frontier covers a period of at least 150 years from the 1780s into the 1930s. Parts of Southwest, Canada, Mexico and Central / South America were still wild enough for "old west action" as late as 1940. The hunt for Bonnie and Clyde was not much different than the hunt for Butch and the Sundance kid, except they traded horses for cars.


And why the fascination with weird tech, there was plenty of real tech that is rarely explored. The wild west being the frontier was kind of primitive, but the East and Europe wasn't. There were self propelled steam carriages in 1815 and Daimler was selling his IC powered automobiles by 1892. Semi-auto firearms were on the market in the early 1890s, the Maxim Machinegun came on the market in 1886, soon followed by the 37mm Maxim autocannon. Modern forensic methods like fingerprinting and mugshots began to be used in the early 1890s. X-rays were discovered in 1895, and the theory of Radioactivity in 1897. There is so much real tech a mad scientist can play with in the old west.

Was I the only one that watched The Wild Wild West with Robert Conrad and Ross Martin as a child? Sure there were a few way out there devices but most would have been possible at that tech level by somebody that made the right mental connections.



Rant mode off... :ooh:
 

Picaroon Jack

And the Brothers Slack
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
Messages
656
Reaction score
1,110
Oh, boy another western game set in the most common period of the wild west and maybe with weirdness.
For me part of the problem is that it is the exact same weirdness in each game (undead, Native American Werewolves, gamblers with deals with the devil, steampunk, etc). This genre, "Weird West," needs a shot of something new. Or better yet, just stick to a Western that just bypasses all that.
 

Sommerjon

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
300
Reaction score
230
Since people seem to have weird reasons for not wanting in.
I got mine.

Creator is from Caly, that's a pass for me.
 

Voros

Doomed Investigator
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
5,355
Reaction score
7,324
I’m not a hundred percent clear on the eras but while I do like the post-Civil War era, the one most often used for Spaghetti Westerns, I also like the ‘end of the frontier’ era that you see in classics like The Wild Bunch and Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. Both as options would be best.
 

Black Vulmea

No. Appearing: 30-500
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Messages
438
Reaction score
1,038
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that you play the bad guys . . .
You will play as one of these outlaws . . .
. . . but you're forming a posse?
Form a posse, saddle up, and hit the trail!

Yes, I know it's just sloppy ad copy, but if you can't get your Kickstarter right, why the hell should I pony up for your game?
 

Toadmaster

Legendary Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
648
Reaction score
967
Yes, I know it's just sloppy ad copy, but if you can't get your Kickstarter right, why the hell should I pony up for your game?
I don't think that is a trivial thing. The ad copy is a big part of the issue. Buy our game it is awesome. We can't be bothered to actually get into any specifics of why it is better than the other 35 western themed games just like it, but it is.

You can get away with vagueness like that if you are offering something without much competition, like a game set during the French Revolution, but the old west is a pretty popular genre and the 1880s is the most popular default period.

They offer no reason to buy their game instead of Boothill, GURPS, HERO, BRP, Aces and Eights, Coyote Trail, Deadlands et al (and I just scratched the surface of what is out there with that list).
 

3rik

invidus es nostris quoniam tu talia nescis
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
1,135
Meh. I still want Western The RPG by Åskfågeln.
I backed the Kickstarter. Progress is being made but it's understandably very slow considering the serious medical issues at play.

the other 35 western themed games
Straight historical western is not a very commonly encountered RPG genre IMHO. I've got Coyote Trail, Gunslingers & Gamblers (Streamline Edition), Print the Legend, GURPS Old West and that's about it. Other "Old West" games are all weird west or alternate timeline.
 

Voros

Doomed Investigator
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
5,355
Reaction score
7,324
I backed the Kickstarter. Progress is being made but it's understandably very slow considering the serious medical issues at play.


Straight historical western is not a very commonly encountered RPG genre IMHO. I've got Coyote Trail, Gunslingers & Gamblers (Streamline Edition), Print the Legend, GURPS Old West and that's about it. Other "Old West" games are all weird west or alternate timeline.
I'm still looking for a rules light but deadly Western rpg myself. Picked this one up recently.

8927
 

Dumarest

Vaquero de Alta California
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
11,022
Reaction score
19,370
If I created a Western, I’d set it in 1870. To me, that provides the most options for all kinds of games.
My Pima County game is set in 1870 for that very reason. If I ever write up my Pima County setting, it'll be 1870 with a timeline of events going forward up to maybe 1879. I specifically chose a date not long after the Civil War, not long after the Apache wars, with various Indian tribes still strong enough to resist, prior to the railroad and telegraph coming to Arizona, close to the Mexican border, and before there was much in the way of law and order. The Gadsen Purchase was still recent history, as was the Mexican-American War. (Two recent wars are also great fodder for PC backgrounds.)
2851.jpg

I'd also enjoy an American frontier game set in the times of Lewis & Clark.
LewisAndClark-300x229.jpg
 

3rik

invidus es nostris quoniam tu talia nescis
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
1,135
I'm still looking for a rules light but deadly Western rpg myself. Picked this one up recently.

View attachment 8927
Simon Washbourne also did Blood & Bullets, freely downloadable here. I haven't looked into these. I think I want a little more versatility from a western game.

Tall Tales is another OSR take on the genre that I haven't really looked into.

Unfortunately I did not like what I saw of Boothill.
 

Endless Flight

Find Balance
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
4,765
Reaction score
8,867
I bought Tall Tales. I was totally thrown out of immersion as the game uses gold pieces as the currency characters use. I understand keeping it compatible with B/X, etc. but I found it jarring.
 

3rik

invidus es nostris quoniam tu talia nescis
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
1,135
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that you play the bad guys . . .


. . . but you're forming a posse?



Yes, I know it's just sloppy ad copy, but if you can't get your Kickstarter right, why the hell should I pony up for your game?

They now have a quickstart pdf available that you can download and the word posse is used throughout the game. So I contacted the publisher about it and was told they have been aware of this from the beginning and it was a deliberate choice, because
we found that the term "posse" was more evocative of the genre for players, it just seemed to work better for them as opposed to "gang" or "crew", and that, informally, posse can mean a group of folks working with a common goal, which is what we hope happens with players — and it fits the setting really well — so that's what we decided to go with.
Not sure what to think of this. Of course the term posse fits the setting really well and is evocative of the genre, but not using it correctly is not. I mean, you could have a lawman rounding up a posse to chase down your posse... :errr:
 

Dumarest

Vaquero de Alta California
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
11,022
Reaction score
19,370
Because "gang" isn't evocative of Wild West outlaws...
  • Hole in the Wall Gang
  • James-Younger Gang
  • Dalton Gang
  • Dodge City Gang
  • Doolin-Dalton Gang
  • Jessie Evans Gang
  • Jack Taylor Gang
  • Alvord-Stiles Gang
  • Bass Gang
  • Flores Daniel Gang
...to name but a few. Willful ignorance does not bode well.
 

3rik

invidus es nostris quoniam tu talia nescis
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
1,135
Yeah, sorry, I don't like to be mean or dismissive, but I'm going to cancel my pledge.

They did an interview on YouTube that also came across as if they do not put enough effort into convincingly portraying their setting. There's also a paragraph urging people to abide to modern sensibilities while playing the game that I found a bit jarring, but going into that would probably not be in line with the RPG Pub's regulations.
 

Black Vulmea

No. Appearing: 30-500
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Messages
438
Reaction score
1,038
They now have a quickstart pdf available that you can download and the word posse is used throughout the game. So I contacted the publisher about it and was told they have been aware of this from the beginning and it was a deliberate choice . . .


Because "gang" isn't evocative of Wild West outlaws...
. . . when you don't know jack shit about either history or genre.

Geebus, these people.
 

3rik

invidus es nostris quoniam tu talia nescis
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
1,135
It's also strange to want people to play outlaws, yet tell them to have their characters act somewhat ethical, Robin Hood-like, and please not be former Confederates. This was in the interview, I don't know if it's also in the book.

 
Last edited:

Dumarest

Vaquero de Alta California
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
11,022
Reaction score
19,370
It's also strange to want people to play outlaws, yet tell them to have their characters act somewhat ethical, Robin Hood-like, and please not be former Confederates. This was in the interview, I don't know if it's also in the book.
Let's play D&D but not steal any treasures while we're at it...
tenor-6.gif
 

Toadmaster

Legendary Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
648
Reaction score
967
Yeah, sorry, I don't like to be mean or dismissive, but I'm going to cancel my pledge.

They did an interview on YouTube that also came across as if they do not put enough effort into convincingly portraying their setting. There's also a paragraph urging people to abide to modern sensibilities while playing the game that I found a bit jarring, but going into that would probably not be in line with the RPG Pub's regulations.

Yep, just skimmed the quick start rules. The rules themselves look like they might be Ok, nothing in a quick read leaped out at me particularly good or bad. Looks to me a medium / light game perhaps reminiscent of BootHill in complexity, but not depth.

The art is actually rather nice, but the tone of the writing completely loses me, not only a complete lack of historical, well anything actually, but also a pretty severe lack of understanding the genre. I'm not seeing why they are saying it is set in 1880s, because it seems to be void of any historical information, but it is the quick start maybe there will be more in the full game.

Also a $50 buy in for a hard copy, that is placing it well into the high end of the options out there. You can get a POD Boothill 3rd ed for $20, or 2nd for $10.



The ultimate killer for me though is, You are playing outlaws, but everybody should play nice... I won't head down that path any further for the sake of the mods.
 

Dumarest

Vaquero de Alta California
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
11,022
Reaction score
19,370
The ultimate killer for me though is, You are playing outlaws, but everybody should play nice... I won't head down that path any further for the sake of the mods.
I guess they couldn't afford the license...or maybe Disney objected to the title being changed to The Apple Dumpling Posse...?
LODE-poster-600x438.jpg
 

3rik

invidus es nostris quoniam tu talia nescis
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
1,029
Reaction score
1,135
The ultimate killer for me though is, You are playing outlaws, but everybody should play nice... I won't head down that path any further for the sake of the mods.
I'm struggling a bit here as well. I mean, they wanted to make it an outlaw game, right? So, who are they catering to?
 

Toadmaster

Legendary Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
648
Reaction score
967
I'm struggling a bit here as well. I mean, they wanted to make it an outlaw game, right? So, who are they catering to?
I was going to make a smart ass comment, but then self control got the better of me.


I wish them luck, maybe there is a market for a kinder gentler western game, but this is not going on my list of games to buy.
 
Top