Kickstarters Thread

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RPGPub seemed to be dead for me last night, so I couldn't thank you then, so: thank you!

I'm super excited!
 
I backed down my pledge from $150 to $100. I don’t think I’ll need all the extras and I have a feeling I could just order them directly from SJ Games. Getting the all the newness should be enough. I’m really trying to reign in my spending on the hobby this year.
 
For me part of the problem is that it is the exact same weirdness in each game (undead, Native American Werewolves, gamblers with deals with the devil, steampunk, etc). This genre, "Weird West," needs a shot of something new. Or better yet, just stick to a Western that just bypasses all that.
What I'd like to see is a weird west which was more like Robert E Howard's supernatural western stories. Not hokey zombies and werewolves but something "straight western" with a hint of the supernatural. Real horror western stuff.
 
Did you notice in the example of game play that the two player characters walk up to a bar in a saloon and . . . I kid you not . . .order sarsaparilla?
Well, sarsaparilla was available back in the 19th century, and was fairly popular, yeah? From what I’ve heard, people ordering straight up whiskey or the like would be fairly rare in the old west, with stuff like Stone fence being more popular.
 
My understanding is that sarsparilla was seen more as a tonic or medicinal, i.e. snake oil, than something any hard-riding cowboy would order, especially an outlaw who wants to keep up appearances, but I'd have to check contemporary sources to learn how common it was as an actual soft drink.
sarsaparilla3.jpg
 
RPGPub seemed to be dead for me last night, so I couldn't thank you then, so: thank you!
You're welcome!

I'm super excited!
As am I:smile:! I'm actually working on my lifepath again. (And I'm close to having recovered over 60% of my earliest lifepath design...thanks to having emailed a very short excerpt. Well, it was some start! Seems like a start was all I needed, though...)

And I think I resolved some of the issues I had with it while doing the recovery. Who knew that giving it another pass might possible work:wink:?
(In other words, my lifepath is likely to offer over 300 combinations of different Special Moves... though that number might be revised up or down when I get down to the final editing).

Alas, it's not going to happen before Monday. Hopefully this Monday:grin:!
 
So it's Drip-Along Daffy the RPG?

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I think you may be right. I was going to say Dumarest's suggestion of the Appledumpling Gang err Posse, was on target, but then realized Don Knotts and Tim Conway are probably to edgy.


I think there might (emphasize might) be a place for a lighter, less gritty, mildly anachronistic western with singing cowboys, and comedy action drama. Something to play a game modeled more after Paint Your Wagon, Goin' South, Support Your Local Sheriff, Shakiest Gun in the West etc.

I don't think this game is going for anything like that, or suitable for that. I'm honestly not sure what they are going for after reading through the quick start. The system seems to be going for a straight western theme, but the descriptive text says otherwise.

10 days in and they are not even 1/4 of the way to their $20,000 goal. I gather us negative nellies are not the only ones left scratching our heads.
 
I think it’s good to get the big details right but it’s alright to let relatively small things slide, like allowing a player use a gun invented in 1875 if you playing in 1870, or allowing them to buy Sarsparilla at a bar.
 
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Well, sarsaparilla was available back in the 19th century, and was fairly popular, yeah? From what I’ve heard, people ordering straight up whiskey or the like would be fairly rare in the old west, with stuff like Stone fence being more popular.
Yes, cocktails like gin and bitters or whiskey punch are popular in the period, but outlaws sidling up to the bar for sarsaparilla as anything other than comedy relief is just lame.

Or maybe they need to change the name to something like Lint, Perspiration & Temerity and set it in a soda fountain in Winesburg, Ohio or Mason City, Iowa.

I'm honestly not sure what they are going for after reading through the quick start. The system seems to be going for a straight western theme, but the descriptive text says otherwise.

10 days in and they are not even 1/4 of the way to their $20,000 goal. I gather us negative nellies are not the only ones left scratching our heads.
When you can have a copy of 3e Boot Hill in your mailbox in a couple of weeks, why bother?

I think it’s good to get the big details right but it’s alright to let relatively small things slide, like allowing a player use a gun invented in 1875 if you playing in 1870 . . .
If you don't want to deal with the technology of 1870, why not just set your campaign in 1875?

Looking back, I wish we'd set our Boot Hill campaign in the late 1860s, rather than starting in 1873, because the constraints make for some interesting choices. That's really a big part of historical roleplaying.

. . . or allowing them to buy Sarsparilla at a bar.
It's not that it's anachronistic - it's that it's ridiculous, like several other choices made for the game.
 
I think it’s good to get the big details right but it’s alright to let relatively small things slide, like allowing a player use a gun invented in 1875 if you playing in 1870, or allowing them to buy Sarsparilla at a bar.

Many of the classic western films and TV series play very fast and loose with the firearms. You find the Colt Peacemaker in plenty of films set before 1873 simply because it is A) an iconic old west pistol, and B) (also more importantly) it is easier logistically to be able to use modern cartridge blanks which you can in the Colt.

The Outlaw Josey Wales is rather notable for its use of period correct cap and ball revolvers, but then Clint is known for being a stickler for details like that.

The guns are not an issue in this game as the are just generic firearms.
 
I dunno. I think Weird West games are ridiculous so what is served at a bar doesn’t matter to me one way or the other.
 
I think it’s good to get the big details right but it’s alright to let relatively small things slide, like allowing a player use a gun invented in 1875 if you playing in 1870, or allowing them to buy Sarsparilla at a bar.
It's not a question of "allowing," it's the idiocy of using that as an example for your outlaw "posse."
I dunno. I think Weird West games are ridiculous so what is served at a bar doesn’t matter to me one way or the other.
Might as well have them order Diet Cokes and sip them through plastic straws then.
 
Might as well have them order Diet Cokes and sip them through plastic straws then.

I don’t think Sarsparilla is stretching disbelief that you are playing in a Wild West setting.

It’s not like we are talking about outlaws riding around in Model-Ts.
 
I don’t think Sarsparilla is stretching disbelief that you are playing in a Wild West setting.
It is when your example is an outlaw gang, but you're free to accept whatever degree of idiocy you like.
 
It is when your example is an outlaw gang, but you're free to accept whatever degree of idiocy you like.

I don’t want to call him an idiot. I just think he or them are not shooting for a pure authentic Wild West historical experience. He seems to realize what he did by calling every player group a posse. He’s just doing it how he wants.
 
I think you may be right. I was going to say Dumarest's suggestion of the Appledumpling Gang err Posse, was on target, but then realized Don Knotts and Tim Conway are probably to edgy.


I think there might (emphasize might) be a place for a lighter, less gritty, mildly anachronistic western with singing cowboys, and comedy action drama. Something to play a game modeled more after Paint Your Wagon, Goin' South, Support Your Local Sheriff, Shakiest Gun in the West etc.

I don't think this game is going for anything like that, or suitable for that. I'm honestly not sure what they are going for after reading through the quick start. The system seems to be going for a straight western theme, but the descriptive text says otherwise.

10 days in and they are not even 1/4 of the way to their $20,000 goal. I gather us negative nellies are not the only ones left scratching our heads.

I don’t think there’s any issue with playing in a slightly cleaned up and idealized West, the issue to me is that is apparently the only option being presented.

I think the solution here would be to offer a range of ‘dials’ like Hite does in Night’s Black Agents. He offers a range of mechanics and advice to help create a spy game ranging from Le Carre, to The Sandbaggers to James Bond.

So you could play the highly romanticized straight shooters of the Hearts of the West B-Westerns or the more gritty but still noble lawmen of the Ford and Mann Westerns; or the ultraviolent outlaws and cynical lawmen of The Wild Bunch and Spaghetti Westerns; or the deglamorized cowboys and murderers of revisionist Westerns like The Culpepper Cattle Co. and Unforgiven.

The Western as a genre has a wide range of styles and approaches, not sure if the designers here just don’t have a deep enough knowledge or if they’ve decided for simplicities sake to narrow the game.
 
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I don’t think there’s any issue with playing in a slightly cleaned up and idealized West, the issue to me is that is apparently the only option being presented.

I think the solution here would be to offer a range of ‘dials’ like Hite does in Night’s Black Agents. He offers a range of mechanics and advice to help create a spy game ranging from Le Carre, to The Sandbaggers to James Bond.

So you could play the highly romanticized straight shooters of the Hearts of the West B-Westerns or the more gritty but still noble lawmen of the Ford and Mann Westerns; or the ultraviolent outlaws and cynical lawmen of The Wild Bunch and Spaghetti Westerns; or the deglamorized cowboys and murderers of revisionist Westerns like The Culpepper Cattle Co. and Unforgiven.

The Western as a genre has a wide range of styles and approaches, not sure if the designers here just don’t have a deep enough knowledge or if they’ve decided for simplicities sake to narrow the game.

Absolutely, I would have no issue with somebody doing a "clean cut" western game if it was clear that was their intent. That is what I was getting at in saying there might be a market for a kinder gentler western for playing the comedic or camp style of westerns, many of which actually do take the subject somewhat seriously. Take a film like Support you Local Sheriff, it is a funny movie with a low body count but it is still a pretty legit western film covering the common genre elements. Probably wouldn't be as funny and the body count would undoubtedly be much higher (because players), but it could easily be used as the plot for any western game. A game designed to allow for less lethal outcomes, and where bard like singing cowboys could calm the wickedest outlaw would be better suited to something like that.

I don't believe that is a huge market but if it was well done I'd probably get it just for doing something a little different.

The main issue for me is the apparent lack of any focus. The title, and apparent focus on outlaws is completely at odds with the tome of pretty much everything else about the game. If you are going to pitch your game as something suitable for safe spaces then for the love of toast, at least put a singing cowboy on the cover.
 
I don’t want to call him an idiot. I just think he or them are not shooting for a pure authentic Wild West historical experience. He seems to realize what he did by calling every player group a posse. He’s just doing it how he wants.
Willful idiocy is still idiocy.
 
You’ll always have Boot Hill, the only Western RPG anyone would ever want.
Boot Hill is the only one I've played (I'm not counting Deadlands), but I have Coyote Trail, Under Western Skies, and a couple of others that were PWYW. Has anyone experience with any of the others? GURPS or Rolemaster's Outlaw?

If mentioned above I apologize, it just seems like Boot Hill (any edition) is the gold standard.
 
I have Aces & Eights Reloaded but have yet to play it. If I ever do I will ignore the alternate history stuff. The rulebook is gorgeous.
 
Boot Hill is the only one I've played (I'm not counting Deadlands), but I have Coyote Trail, Under Western Skies, and a couple of others that were PWYW. Has anyone experience with any of the others? GURPS or Rolemaster's Outlaw?

If mentioned above I apologize, it just seems like Boot Hill (any edition) is the gold standard.


Gurps Old West and Western HERO were quite good, assuming you like the associated games.

It is a shame that Western HERO came along so late in 4th edition, shortly before ICE/HERO games crashed. It was a very well done setting book that added / tweaked rules for the fast draw, and spent a good bit of time on how to use the Presence attack in an old west setting. It seems it is hardly even known outside of a few diehard HERO fans.

I think with a cooperative GM, and a PC with the appropriate amount of bluster (and points in PRE) this scene could be pulled off under the rules.



If my repeated mention of this movie, isn't enough of a clue, I love this movie. It is up there with the Outlaw Josey Wales on my list of greats.
 
What's their alternate history angle?

I picked up the core rules pdf. Ignoring the alternate history it is isn't a bad game, but is on the crunchy end of things. Much more complex than Boothill 3E. It does include rules for things like ranching, mining, running cattle drives etc almost mini-games which could be useful with other games.
 
If you read the /r/osr subreddit, you've noticed that one of the most common topics is something along the lines of "My players refuse to play anything other than 5E, but I love the OSR. How do I make 5E more OSR?" There are literally dozens of these threads in just the last 6 months. I think Sigil Stone is trying to react to that and do something to bridge that gap between 5E and the OSR with Five Torches Deep. I really hope they succeed, though I kind of doubt they will. D&D has always had kind of an issue with creating D&D players, not RPG players, and that trend only seems to have gotten worse. Hopefully this sort of hybrid product will change that.
 
If my repeated mention of this movie, isn't enough of a clue, I love this movie. It is up there with the Outlaw Josey Wales on my list of greats.
A classic. I enjoy both Support Your Local Sheriff and Support Your Local Gunfighter. I wish James Garner would have made a dozen of those things. :grin:
 
I don’t want to call him an idiot. I just think he or them are not shooting for a pure authentic Wild West historical experience. He seems to realize what he did by calling every player group a posse. He’s just doing it how he wants.
Or here's another possibility: he's not very good at this.
 
There's a mention in the comments of T8, a simpler Traveller for ages 8 and up. Might be cool.
 
It was discussed on the T5, yay or nay thread.

I'm a backer for the updated PDF, although I don't think I can afford the full printed version this time round. I think the game has improved, however, although it's never going to be a a game for a casual player.
 
I wish it was a bit more T4 cleaned up and a lot less the old advanced character creation system writ large. I was looking through my remaining T4 stuff and I'm still a lot happier with where it was trying to go. Also, the half dice are a lot nicer than nd6 and lots of modifiers. You need the smaller increment and there's a fair bit of T5 that would work better with it.
 
I'm still happy with the original edition so I'll pass on this. There's really nothing I feel needs to be "improved."
Totally agree. There is an element of nostalgia in some of my old game fetishism, but 1E Traveller is an exception: They got it so right the first time around that new editions feel pointless to me. If I didn't own 1E I suppose one of the very close revisions (like Mongoose's more recent copy) would be good. But the original basically needs nothing, and is the most concise statement of the game you will find.
 
So, we'd better talk about combat. Originally it was all simultaneous and resolved in the order of Situation, Target, Aim, Move, Penetrate. You could opt to shoot first in exchange for everyone getting a bonus to hit you. The tactics pool gave out some free floating modifiers. Cover gave -2 to -6 to be hit and -1 to -3 to hit because it costs you opportunities. Movement was a die modifier. Target Size and Range were modifiers. In the earlier versions the combat system used 2d tasks but we foolishly pushed for the nd6 mechanic to be used and it made things messier. Really that's where the problem is. The combination of modifiers and nd6 difficulty modifiers is messy and confusing. So confusing that the 5.09 combat committee missed that you cant' miss at short range and that moose were still the ultimate weapon in the Galaxy.

Damage is in dice, but divided by type, most apply to Armour but some hit Insulate, Sealed, and around eight other protection values. Armour is subtracted from the damage with whole dice divided among the characteristics by rolling 1d3. There's also hit locations and your armour goes away if its penetrated. Not really unrealistic, ballistic plates shatter when absorbing bullet energy, ablative foam burns away, plasma guns burn everything away and so forth. There was a lot of debate about how damage types are applied. For instance do you apply Bullet -2 Penetrate-1 separately? What's the difference. The official ruling is that each damage type is applied against armour separately but the armour values don't bear this out and the H0 column in the Gun Maker contradicts this ruling entirely. Hit system 0 / 1 was a quick damage for npcs rule that knocks them out of the fighting if they take 10 points of damage from a hit. It makes mooks almost invulnerable. Anyhow, we don't know how this will play out. Melee weapons have been a nonsensical mess from the beginning. Personally it's mostly fixed by saying the damage listed is in points not dice. So Strength Cuts means an average joe does 7 points with a sword not 7 dice. There's a few other issues like some weapons having fixed damages and others having strength based damage. Oh well, I got passed a sneak peak of a fixed up table but whether it's in or out, who can say?

Anyhow, 5.09 combat allows additional shots per round for additional difficulty and makes combat a little more flowing but I've ran it and found it really messy and unfun. As I've said many times, 5.0 needed about a page of clarifications not a total reworking.

The Gun and Armour Makers were included in the combat section originally. They're pretty neat if buggy as hell (for example, the table allows magnum lasers but not heavy and very heavy ones because stuff got printed on the wrong lines) . Basically, you take a basic weapon and apply modifiers which affect its cost, weight and damage. So, for instance you might have an Ultimate Very Heavy Laser Pistol -15 Range 2, Penetrate-2 , Burn -4, 1 kg . The armour system works in a similar fashion. It'll be too much work for some but its no Fire Fusion and Steel (sigh).

Gadzooks, I had no idea all this had gotten so complicated! I can't imagine playing a version of Traveller (or any other game) that was this fussy when it came to attack and damage resolution.
 
I have realized that I can use the Old-School Essentials https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/necroticgnome/old-school-essentials/posts/2502562 with the Trilemma Adventures Compendium https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/kickstarter-trilemma-adventures-compendium.2963/#post-97575. I will have an entire sandbox with new monsters to play in. How crazy is it that in 2019 I can get a brand new copy of the Basic/Expert rules and have new adventures to go with it.

I'm going to interview both creators for EN World. Just finished up talking to Michael Prescott about his maps and adventures and I'm talking to Gavin Norman Saturday morning.

Cool, Michael and Gavin seem like chill dudes.
 
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