WFRP (all editions & Zweihänder) Chatty Thread

The Butcher

More machine than man
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Messages
3,173
Reaction score
6,254
Been playing quite a bit of Warhammer: Vermintide II on the PC (fantastic, casual, mission-based multiplayer looter-shooter) and by Sigmar it's getting me itching for a little WFRP action.

I love D&D for what it is, from OD&D to D&D5, and Mythras is probably the best engine for fine-tuning to a given setting (especially when cults and mutilation are involved). But WFRP strikes that rare balance between fantasy, history and gonzo, in both setting and system. As others have said before, it's like D&D and CoC had a baby and Terry Gilliam raised it. In 17th Century Germany.

I've been a fan of the setting for a while but it took me years to finally run a game on my own circa 2013 or 2014. I ran for two groups, using WFRP2, and much fun was had. (In one particularly memorable night, my acting as a jilted husband confronting his wife in bed with the Elf Rogue PC elicited yells of encouragement from the neighbors)

Last night I started comparing WFRP2, Zweihänder and WFRP4; starting with the Career system. I am a big fan of the whole Career switcheroo where play circumstances mean your Rat Catcher might end up as an Assassin or Demagogue or Witch Hunter.I think it fits the picaresque nature of the setting.

WFRP2 seems optimally plotted for three or four Careers throughout a PC's tabletop life; Zweihänder explicitly plots for three; WFRP4 encourages you to stick with your initial career with four "levels" for each, and though there are rules for switching, I feel subtly discouraged by this set-up.

One thing I really dig about Zweihänder is how specific colleges of magic and priesthoods have thgeir own careers; a generic Priest is unlikely to refelct the badassery of Ulric's White Wolves or Myrmidia's Iron Abbots.

My choice of system is increasingly looking like a showdown between WFRP2's familiar expediency and Zweihänder's fiddly comprehensiveness.

Setting-wise, though, no doubts: going with WFRP1 for the fluff.
 

Black Leaf

Whey Faced Poltroon
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
1,511
Reaction score
3,519
Zweihänder is perfectly fine as a game, but it's moved in the opposite crunch direction to what I like in a game these days. And the writing just doesn't have the magic of the original; it feels like it tries too hard at times.

WFRP 4e has bits I really like. I'm the opposite of you; I really like the fact you can stay in the same career the whole of your life rather than being pushed into switching to progress. And the writing feels like WFRP. But it just feels unfinished somehow; like they didn't finish playtesting it properly. Yes, I can fix stuff like beginning characters not being able to afford a hand weapon. But I shouldn't have to. It's also fiddly.

So for me it's WFRP 2e for mechanics and cherrypick both 1e and 2e for setting. 2e has a lot of great setting books like the Kislev book and the Border Princes but the storm of chaos makes a better wargame than a RPG.
 

Skywalker

Legendary Member
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
708
Reaction score
1,114
My preference remains WFRP2e with a good injection of the setting vibe from 1e.

I like Zweihander quite a bit as it does fix 2e's few issues and is easily usable for games outside of the Old World. However, the complexity goes too far which makes 2e a better choice overall.

4e looked good on paper at first. But I found that its fixes to 2e were either off-track (such a de-emphasising the career system) or actually created a few issues in the effort. Its just too fiddly IMO, though its complexity is less than Zweihander at least.
 

CRKrueger

Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
3,084
Reaction score
5,322
If I was running WFRP again...

Storm of Chaos/Spiky Bitz Warhammer sucks for a tabletop RPG. It made a great MMO and tabletop wargame though.

WFRP1/Enemy Within/CoC Warhammer is where it's at settingwise. I think 1e and 4e are better suited than 2e or Zweihander.

1e's careers aren't balanced at all, and the progressions are pretty logical, especially with GM common sense. 4e keeps that lack of trying for career balance and allows you to stay in career, so no forced exits.

2e keeps the idiosyncrasies of Career Progression from WFRP1 but attempts to balance the careers, and the combination is...odd. Zweihander is the most open and flexible with a Build-Your-Own system and a bajillion examples for things. It also has unique religious and cult careers which is always nice. However, Zweihander does add the crunch, which doesn’t bother me but it also isn’t usable as is, which does. It’s in Uncanny Valley territory. Not Warhammer enough to be Warhammer without tweaking, and too much Warhammer for any non-Warhammer setting without a lot more tweaking. Even Dan Fox has said just use WFRP for Warhammer.

I’d use a lot of the setting material from WFRP2, especially all the gorgeous city maps, but leave the system WFRP1 or go with WFRP4.

Assuming of course I didn’t undertake my Mythras conversion.
 

Baeraad

Delicate Snowflake
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Messages
998
Reaction score
1,853
I am quite happy to finally be running a WFRP2 campaign right now, since it's something that I've been wanting to do for a very long time. :smile: I have very limited experience with all the other editions, but I always thought there was something deeply compelling about the game and setting. It's not exactly gritty and it's not exactly glamourous, it's sort of.... glamourously gritty. You get all the flashiness and colour of high fantasy and all the vividness and visceral immediacy of low fantasy. Everything is covered in dirt and covered in gold. Every detail is made as eye-catching as possible.

It's also the only setting I know that takes Tolkienian races and makes them feel interesting to me - I think, again, because it's all exaggerated to the point where everything feels distinct. The Dwarfs are more grumpy and stubborn. The Halflings are more gluttonous and hapless. The Orcs aren't just vaguely tailored on Tolkien's notion of The Ill-Bred Servant Classes but are explicitly cockney-speaking football hooligans. Everything is drawn in sharper lines, everything is more flavourful and distinctive. I love it. :grin:
 

OHT

Reviewer
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
666
Reaction score
1,495
I prefer 4e careers. I prefer Zweihander's magic system, and I prefer 2e breadth of content and v1's general vibe (I think I must be the only person alive who likes the magic system of the original). So it's a bit vexing.
 

The Butcher

More machine than man
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Messages
3,173
Reaction score
6,254
I prefer 4e careers. I prefer Zweihander's magic system, and I prefer 2e breadth of content and v1's general vibe (I think I must be the only person alive who likes the magic system of the original). So it's a bit vexing.
Right?

I have yet to compare magic systems but so far I’m definitely into WFRP1 feel/vibe and adventures, WFRP2 setting material, Zweihänder careers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OHT

Winterblight

Legendary Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Messages
295
Reaction score
456
Ive played Warhammer 1st and 2nd edition and now GMing Zweihander. I can't really make much in the way of comparison as it was a long time ago that I played Warhammer. Our current Zweihander game has been running for about a year and its only now that I need to delve deeply into the magic system as the player characters look like they are about to face off against a very powerful Wizard. It will be their first real encounter going up against spells and magic artefacts, though its one of their own making. I've dumped the corruption mechanism, I found that too hard to follow. I know I've said it before, but the text is so inflated and overwritten, it gets in the way of learning the rules.

The characters have just entered their second tier.
 

Baulderstone

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
5,628
Reaction score
13,460
WFRP 4e has bits I really like. I'm the opposite of you; I really like the fact you can stay in the same career the whole of your life rather than being pushed into switching to progress. And the writing feels like WFRP. But it just feels unfinished somehow; like they didn't finish playtesting it properly. Yes, I can fix stuff like beginning characters not being able to afford a hand weapon. But I shouldn't have to. It's also fiddly.
I've been running 4E on and off for the last year, and I do like the career system in it better. I ran a lot of WFRP back in the 1E days, and the career system became more of an issue the longer a campaign went on. Having a random career within a general class and needing to work your way through to the career was pretty cool, but unless you were a spellcaster, none of the career paths were long enough, so you'd fly through the career you wanted in a few sessions and then spend the rest of the campaign bouncing through careers that had nothing to do with what was happening in the game. With 4E, you can still change careers, but you aren't constantly forced out of them too.

As for fiddliness, yes, it is fiddly. I've been running it the same way I ran AD&D back in the day: I just ignore a lot of things, using the core mechanics with a "rulings not rules" mindset, and it has worked well. If I were to more formally change the game, I'd provide options to make character generation less fiddly.

Having Graeme Davis on board is one of the best things about 4E. WFRP (as opposed to the larger Warhammer franchise) is tied very much to the original writers in my mind.
 

CRKrueger

Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
3,084
Reaction score
5,322
I prefer 4e careers. I prefer Zweihander's magic system, and I prefer 2e breadth of content and v1's general vibe (I think I must be the only person alive who likes the magic system of the original). So it's a bit vexing.
Not just you brother. I wasn’t a big fan of the Colours of Magick.
 

Stevethulhu

Lose 1d20 San
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
2,631
Reaction score
3,593
Not just you brother. I wasn’t a big fan of the Colours of Magick.
Count me in for OG Warhammer magic. I like the battle wizard/illusionist/necromancer/demonologist thing.

Though a few more utility spells would be nice, you can love without them. And Produce Small Animal is an amazing spell!
 

The Butcher

More machine than man
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Messages
3,173
Reaction score
6,254
Not just you brother. I wasn’t a big fan of the Colours of Magick.
Gotta look into WFRP1 again one of these days.

I actually like the Winds of Magic fluff, and sort of tolerate the color-coded colleges, but it does make for some embarrassing situations e.g. if you want to play an elf wizard — are you supposed to focus on one of the Winds? Submit to College authority? I never quite get the hang of it.
 

Gringnr

Chief of the Boat Feels
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
1,856
Reaction score
2,599
I don't have a position on this, but I thought some of you might be interested in a fan-made set of rules for using Zweihänder rules to play actual WFRP. That is to say, this guy has re-affixed the serial numbers. On a purely unofficial, fan-made basis. Impressive for a fan project.


Speaking of fan projects, there are a metric f***ton of fan made WFRP modules out there? Anyone have any recs? I have a BUNCH of these and I'd like to know which ones y'all would recommend.

Also, is anyone familiar with the wfrp.de collection of fan-made stuff? It's apparently curated and gated.
 
Last edited:

Baeraad

Delicate Snowflake
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Messages
998
Reaction score
1,853
Gotta look into WFRP1 again one of these days.

I actually like the Winds of Magic fluff, and sort of tolerate the color-coded colleges, but it does make for some embarrassing situations e.g. if you want to play an elf wizard — are you supposed to focus on one of the Winds? Submit to College authority? I never quite get the hang of it.
I think if if you play an elven wizard it's assumed that you're a novice, and that you won't learn your second Wind until several human lifetimes from now.

But it's true that the game could do with a great deal more support for playing elves in general.
 

Rob Necronomicon

Legendary Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Messages
354
Reaction score
526
WHRP 2e for me with 1e lore.

I really wanted to love Zweihander. But it's a bit too crunchy and the rule book is just huge. Not really the games fault. I'm just too lazy these days to read anything with too much fluff or rules.
 

Winterblight

Legendary Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Messages
295
Reaction score
456
How have you found the rules for Zweihander overall?
Overall the rules work well. So far nothing in the mechanics seems broken or overpowered. The only problem I have is finding specific rules due to the size of the book, or having to read a few pages before it gets to the point. I reckon you could lose a 3rd of the book/bloat without losing a single rule.
 

Spartan

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Messages
195
Reaction score
361
I'm in the minority that my preferred edition is 3rd. The narrative dice make for great visualization of the action, and the adventures are pretty fun. I did run a 2e game using the 1e setting which turned out pretty well. I'm not terribly interested in 4e.
 

Stevethulhu

Lose 1d20 San
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
2,631
Reaction score
3,593
I so wanted to like Zweihander. But when I finally got it, I just found it crunchy to no purpose. Like, its complicated just because it can be. And to me, that's the great shame of the game.
 
Last edited:

Spartan

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Messages
195
Reaction score
361
I so wanted to like Zweihander. But when I finally got it, I just found it crunchy to no purpose. Like, its complicated just because it can be. And to me, that's the great shame of the game.
It's certainly quite a tome! I haven't run it yet, and the crunch level is considerable, but not more than Mythras as far as I can see. I like the percentile dice manipulation "tricks" that are in there, which seems to alleviate the whiff factor of linear systems. I'm kind of chomping at the bit to give it a go at some point, though my plate is quite full at the moment. Does anyone here have significant experience playing Zweihander? I'm curious as to its strngths and weaknesses at the table. I can certainly understand why it might not be to everyone's taste. :smile:
 

Stevethulhu

Lose 1d20 San
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
2,631
Reaction score
3,593
It's certainly quite a tome! I haven't run it yet, and the crunch level is considerable, but not more than Mythras as far as I can see. I like the percentile dice manipulation "tricks" that are in there, which seems to alleviate the whiff factor of linear systems. I'm kind of chomping at the bit to give it a go at some point, though my plate is quite full at the moment. Does anyone here have significant experience playing Zweihander? I'm curious as to its strngths and weaknesses at the table. I can certainly understand why it might not be to everyone's taste. :smile:
I'll hold my hand up and admit I've not played it. I'd say it's biggest weakness is, it isn't the retroclone of Warhammer 1e that I was thinking it was going to be. Sadly, I'm still waiting for that particular game, with the Skills list cleaned up so that those that give a bonus are separated from those that give an ability. Which should probably be a new category.

As for strengths, I didn't really find any, as I got bored part way through making a character.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
12,804
Reaction score
29,275
the crunch level is considerable, but not more than Mythras as far as I can see

The difference I found is that all of Mythras's crunch adds to the gameplay. Essentially, ou get out of Mythras what you put into it - the crunch is purposeful and delivers tangible benefits in gameplay.

Zweihander, OTOH... well, I'll just quote a small portion from very extensive review...


...But, hey, let's check out Zweihander's Sanity system. I mean, WFRP basically just had a simplified version of Call of Cthulhu's system so it'd be hard to do worse.

Zweihander divides Madness into that caused by stress, fear, or terror, with copious examples of each tier. In each case, a character exposed to the stimuli must make a Resolve Test. The results then range from gaining a Fortune Point (how many goddamn point pools does this game need?)

...for a Critical Success, to gaining a ton of Corruption and paralysis for a Critical Failure. Luckily the next section is an in-depth looK at Corruption. Causes of Corruption ("Offenses") are divided into Minor, Middling, and Major (Daniel does love his tryptics). Accumulated Corruption increases a character's Chaos rank. This is balanced by a character's Order rank sort of like a Pendragon Passion. High ranking in Order gains a character Fate points. Higher ranking in Chaos gains you a Disorder. An extensive list of disorders follows.

While these are flavourful in and of themselves (overall, flavour-filled lists seem to be Zweihander's strongest points), I have to admit I was wrong.

This is way worse than WFRP's simplistic system.

It is just downright Byzantine. This mechanic is converted into that mechanic, is converted into that track, leads to this, ad nauseam. This isn't crunch so much as ring around the rosy.
 

Gringnr

Chief of the Boat Feels
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
1,856
Reaction score
2,599
I've run a few months' worth of Zweihänder. It's a good system, and works very well. I dont have a lot of experience with WFRP, so I can't really compare the two in great detail.

It works very well, is balanced (sure, I can live without "balance", and some people don't like it, but for me it makes a game easier to run and less work as a GM) nicely, and plays smoothly. I dont like thick or crunchy games as a rule, and I liked it. The biggest issue I had was that until players internalize weapon qualities/special abilities/etc., it slows down play a bit.

The book itself is big, but quite inclusive. Most of what is in it is "optional", and need not be referenced during play.

It is overwritten and muddled in places, for sure. I put this down to Fox being a first time writer, and being too attached to material to objectively decide what should go and what should stay.

The balance can make things a bit "samey"

I like the structure of WFRP's career system a bit better, and think that the Zweihänder career system was more designed to avoid IP infringement than anything. There are a few areas like that in Zweihänder, where it seems like a different path would have been preferable but not ideal from a legal standpoint. You can almost see that when it happens.

Overall, however, I find Zweihänder to be complete, easy to run, and fun. It's not for high fantasy, obviously.

The book itself can usually be had for less than 40 bucks, and considering its quality, attractiveness and completeness, I'd say it's well worth it. YMMV.

I have converted some WFRP 2e scenarios, and it's gone well, and wasn't too difficult.

Overall, I like it. I will play it again. Others with more WFRP experience might like that game better. And a lot of people just don't like the author, which is a whole different ball of wax.
 

Gringnr

Chief of the Boat Feels
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
1,856
Reaction score
2,599
The difference I found is that all of Mythras's crunch adds to the gameplay. Essentially, ou get out of Mythras what you put into it - the crunch is purposeful and delivers tangible benefits in gameplay.

Zweihander, OTOH... well, I'll just quote a small portion from very extensive review...


...But, hey, let's check out Zweihander's Sanity system. I mean, WFRP basically just had a simplified version of Call of Cthulhu's system so it'd be hard to do worse.

Zweihander divides Madness into that caused by stress, fear, or terror, with copious examples of each tier. In each case, a character exposed to the stimuli must make a Resolve Test. The results then range from gaining a Fortune Point (how many goddamn point pools does this game need?)

...for a Critical Success, to gaining a ton of Corruption and paralysis for a Critical Failure. Luckily the next section is an in-depth looK at Corruption. Causes of Corruption ("Offenses") are divided into Minor, Middling, and Major (Daniel does love his tryptics). Accumulated Corruption increases a character's Chaos rank. This is balanced by a character's Order rank sort of like a Pendragon Passion. High ranking in Order gains a character Fate points. Higher ranking in Chaos gains you a Disorder. An extensive list of disorders follows.

While these are flavourful in and of themselves (overall, flavour-filled lists seem to be Zweihander's strongest points), I have to admit I was wrong.

This is way worse than WFRP's simplistic system.

It is just downright Byzantine. This mechanic is converted into that mechanic, is converted into that track, leads to this, ad nauseam. This isn't crunch so much as ring around the rosy.

Yeah, I did end up ignoring a lot of that stuff in my Zweihänder games, basically just using corruption when characters got injured or acted despicably. So, yeah there is some needless complication, but the core system is very simple, and the game's balance and modular design makes it really easy to strip stuff off/bolt it on without breaking anything.

Edit: for sure, I used the WFRP fluff with my games...
 
Last edited:

Skywalker

Legendary Member
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
708
Reaction score
1,114
I'll hold my hand up and admit I've not played it. I'd say it's biggest weakness is, it isn't the retroclone of Warhammer 1e that I was thinking it was going to be. Sadly, I'm still waiting for that particular game, with the Skills list cleaned up so that those that give a bonus are separated from those that give an ability. Which should probably be a new category.
Isn't that pretty much 2e? Skills became Skills (add a bonus) and Talents (added an ability).
 

Winterblight

Legendary Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Messages
295
Reaction score
456
It's certainly quite a tome! I haven't run it yet, and the crunch level is considerable, but not more than Mythras as far as I can see. I like the percentile dice manipulation "tricks" that are in there, which seems to alleviate the whiff factor of linear systems. I'm kind of chomping at the bit to give it a go at some point, though my plate is quite full at the moment. Does anyone here have significant experience playing Zweihander? I'm curious as to its strngths and weaknesses at the table. I can certainly understand why it might not be to everyone's taste. :smile:
The rules themselves work fine. As other's have said, they appear well balanced. Having said that. I've never had to use misfortune dice on my Player Characters, they tend to find their own misfortune :grin: I gave up tracking corruption. For some reason I can't keep the rules in my head and needed to constantly look it up, which isn't an easy task. Even the PDF is difficult to search for stuff as its so vast.

When comparing it to Mythras (which I haven't finished reading yet). Mythras has comparable crunch, but its neatly written on about a third of the page count and much more accessible. I don't find that Zweihander is badly written, its just over written. Granted, some folk might consider that to be the same thing. Here is an example of what I'm talking about for those who haven't read the book.

Basic Tier: Your new profession has several skills tied to it. You must spend Reward Points to purchases all ten of these skills.......
Intermediate Tier: Your new profession has several skills tied to it. You must spend Reward Points to purchases all ten of these skills......
Advanced Tier: Your new profession has several skills tied to it. You must spend Reward Points to purchases all ten of these skills......

Each of these text blocks run to hundreds of words each with just minor variations, if at all. Each time you have to re-read identical text to get to that little nugget of information you are looking for. This kind of thing can be found throughout the book and it really makes finding stuff during game play difficult. So in just a few pages you have hundreds of words that just repeat. A change of structure could cut several pages to a half page.

We have had a few other issues with the game, but I can't pin those on Zweihander. One of my players had never encountered a roll under system before and it took several sessions for him to get the hang of it. He just found it very unintuitive to begin with. Another player had issues getting his head around how damage worked. I took him a while to grasp that it wasn't the actual weapon that made the difference, but the weapons traits.
 

Winterblight

Legendary Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Messages
295
Reaction score
456
Did you play Zweihander original or the revised version @Gringnr and @Winterblight ?
I'm playing the original (one kind individual on this forum gifted it to me). Having said that, one of my players is using the revised version. I haven't noticed much difference between them. Though I would expect the errata has been included in the revised edition. The paper in the revised edition appears to be thinner, shaving a third off the bulk, but other than that, I don't know there is much difference?
 

Voros

Doomed Investigator
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
7,340
Reaction score
10,934
I got the WFRP Bundle and love the adventures and 1e seems solid with some nifty ideas (like flipping your roll to determine hit location) but the magic system is a bit too drab D&D for me. I've got 4e which also has some nice touches but seems a bit too fiddly, may run with that but have to decide what to drop by the wayside. Or maybe just try and run with Small But Vicious Dog (see below).

As usual for any WFRP thread I'll also use this opportunity to plug Small But Vicious Dog a B/X and WFRP mashup and this supercool conversion of TSR UK's masterpiece Night's Dark Terror for WFRP.
 

Gringnr

Chief of the Boat Feels
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
1,856
Reaction score
2,599
I got the WFRP Bundle and love the adventures and 1e seems solid with some nifty ideas (like flipping your roll to determine hit location) but the magic system is a bit too drab D&D for me. I've got 4e which also has some nice touches but seems a bit too fiddly, may run with that but have to decide what to drop by the wayside. Or maybe just try and run with Small But Vicious Dog (see below).

As usual for any WFRP thread I'll also use this opportunity to plug Small But Vicious Dog a B/X and WFRP mashup and this supercool conversion of TSR UK's masterpiece Night's Dark Terror for WFRP.
There's also French WFRP clones, Brygandine. Not available in English, but translating software will render usable, if inelegant, results. Brygandine is a bit lighter than any WFRP I've seen. All the rolls are player facing. It has the same "vibe", though.
 

Skywalker

Legendary Member
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
708
Reaction score
1,114
I never played 2e. Book bloat and not seeing any actual reason to put down the entire game in a single volume that is 1e.
The WFRP 2e rulebook is pretty complete by itself at 256 pages. The structure of the book follows 1e’s closely. It’s a lighter on setting and the bestiary than the 1e rulebook but that’s more a testament to the size of those sections in 1e than a lack in 2e.

It does have the best supplement support of any WFRP edition but I wouldn’t take the impression from that as that makes the rulebook somehow less complete.
 

Stevethulhu

Lose 1d20 San
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
2,631
Reaction score
3,593
The WFRP 2e rulebook is pretty complete by itself at 256 pages. The structure of the book follows 1e’s closely. It’s a lighter on setting and the bestiary than the 1e rulebook but that’s more a testament to the size of those sections in 1e than a lack in 2e.

It does have the best supplement support of any WFRP edition but I wouldn’t take the impression from that as that makes the rulebook somehow less complete.
It's a purely personal thing. It doesn't feel as complete to me, so I never bothered getting past skimming the book.
 

Skywalker

Legendary Member
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
708
Reaction score
1,114
Cool. I generally think of WFRP2e's rulebook as one of the best ones in the hobby in balancing content with playability. But you are entitled to you own opinion. Its just a shame though as it sounded like what you were looking for.
 

Baulderstone

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
5,628
Reaction score
13,460
The WFRP 2e rulebook is pretty complete by itself at 256 pages. The structure of the book follows 1e’s closely. It’s a lighter on setting and the bestiary than the 1e rulebook but that’s more a testament to the size of those sections in 1e than a lack in 2e.
I'd also say that while the WFRP 1E was a complete game in a single book from a rules perspective, a lot of the setting was presented in the overview of The Empire in the first volume of The Enemy Within. Without that book, you wouldn't even know what the Cult of Sigmar is.
 

CRKrueger

Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
3,084
Reaction score
5,322
I'd also say that while the WFRP 1E was a complete game in a single book from a rules perspective, a lot of the setting was presented in the overview of The Empire in the first volume of The Enemy Within. Without that book, you wouldn't even know what the Cult of Sigmar is.
Good point. It really seems like the 38 pages of Empire info that preface The Enemy Within Campaign should be in the main book, and probably were supposed to be, but cut for size reasons. If you had no idea what Warhammer was, and just picked up WFRP1 because of the amazingly awesome cover, you'd be losing out not having The Enemy Within or Warhammer Campaign.
 
Top