WFRP (all editions & Zweihänder) Chatty Thread

Simlasa

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It isn't apathy. It isn't particularly lazy. But it is doing no more than you absolutely have to do at a given time.
I'd say there is some element of apathy to it... if you really cared you'd put on your armor and show up to fight. But you don't. Maybe you've talked yourself into not caring... but the end result is a hole where you're supposed to be on the day of battle.
 

Simlasa

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But that doesn't describe Slaanesh forces, at all - hyper-kinetic, fast-attacks, bachannalian frenzies
Does that have to describe ALL the Slaanesh followers? Maybe they're just the ones who show up to fight? Bored of the orgy back at cult headquarters.
I....what Chaos Gods are eating fast food?
Probably Slaanesh, when the urge strikes.
 

Black Leaf

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I tend to think of Slaanesh more as "the dangers of giving in to temptation" than just "sexuality turned against you"; no matter what your depravity of choice is, Slaanesh should have something special that can turn your head.

They touch on excess of sensation in a few bits of Slaanesh lore - Noise Marines, frex, or Dechala and her mutants - and Lucius touches on the dangers of pride. But Slaanesh still feels, to me, like the god with the most untapped horror potential, the one where you could just challenge the designers and writers "do your worst".

(I do miss the "positive sides" representation of early chaos, it helped make turning to them feel more like a choice that someone could justify to themselves based on good intentions.)
Yeah, Slaanesh is still canonically the God that gives inspiration for art and poetry, but that's largely been forgotten in the later material.

If I was to run WFRP again I'd really play up that moral greyness. (I like Khaine for the same reason).

There's definitely signs of it, even in the official setting. The Dark Elves claim they harness chaos rather than being controlled by it. The Norsemen happily worship the Chaos Gods alongside Gods like Ulric.

One of my favourite setting tweaks in 2e was them recognising that the Vampire Counts would absolutely despise Chaos, not be allied with them. There's real potential there.
 

Stevethulhu

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I'd say there is some element of apathy to it... if you really cared you'd put on your armor and show up to fight. But you don't. Maybe you've talked yourself into not caring... but the end result is a hole where you're supposed to be on the day of battle.
Sloth isn't not caring. It's really hard to define, but in terms if the seven deadly sins, it's the sin of omission.

Which can be just about anything you don't do.
 

Simlasa

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If I was to run WFRP again I'd really play up that moral greyness. (I like Khaine for the same reason).
Isn't Khaine (sp?) also kindasorta related to the 'bloody handed god' of the Eldar in 40K? Them being, as much as anyone in 40K can be, good guys? (at least compared to the Dark Eldar).
 

Black Leaf

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Isn't Khaine (sp?) also kindasorta related to the 'bloody handed god' of the Eldar in 40K? Them being, as much as anyone in 40K can be, good guys? (at least compared to the Dark Eldar).
I don't know my 40K canon at all. (I prefer to separate the universes despite what GW think).
 

Simlasa

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Sloth isn't not caring. It's really hard to define, but in terms if the seven deadly sins, it's the sin of omission.
I don't know official definition, not being Catholic, I only speak from my own vast experience of being slothful and not caring about stuff... until I do care, at which point I am seldom slothy at all, maybe just indecisive.
 

CRKrueger

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lol, have you SEEN Nurgle?

View attachment 19386

A bunch of big fat guys who have one of the slowest movement rates in the game....
True, but I was thinking about Slaves to Darkness, about how the fear of entropy, death, and decay drives men to a fury of activity, to rage against the dying of the light and how that energy feeds Nurgle. Doesn’t sound Slothy.

Still, there’s a lot that give up, sink into depression and apathy, that would certainly be Sloth.
 

Ladybird

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Hmm. Gluttony might be more Slaanesh. The desire to consume obsessively. The transgression against society for the sake of self-indulgence.
Gluttony is pure Slaanesh. And it's not just the desire - it's your right! You've earned this. But that guy? He hasn't earned it. Everything he has, is something you can't have. He doesn't deserve it. Go ahead. Take it. Take everything from him. Take whatever. You. Want.

lol, have you SEEN Nurgle?

View attachment 19386

A bunch of big fat guys who have one of the slowest movement rates in the game....
They're bloated like corpses, not fat. Nurgle's generous, he loves his followers, he loves his diseases, he only wants to share; he's actually canonically genuinely nice. And he's even capable of love! He lives Isha, the Eldar goddess of Healing, so much!

But that doesn't describe Slaanesh forces, at all - hyper-kinetic, fast-attacks, bachannalian frenzies
Sure. But everybody needs a rest now and then, right? You can't work all the time. Stay home. It's fine, your friends will cover for you. It's just a battle, they've fought a few beastmen before. Crack open an ale. They're only outnumbered five to one! You wouldn't even make a difference. Put your feet up, grab a chicken leg, and have a wank. Everything is gonna be just fine.

I don't know my 40K canon at all. (I prefer to separate the universes despite what GW think).
iirc Age of Sigmar settled that Khaine and Khorne are not the same god.
 

David Johansen

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The thing you have to remember about the chaos gods is that they are really big complex Freudian mass neuroses. They can do many things and the left hand seldom knows what the third lower tentacle is doing. Tzeneech is particularly bad about hanging plots and self defeating complexity but Khorne will gladly go to war with himself and Nurgle doesn't much mind when one plague infests another. In that there is lots of room for aspects like Taal and Shalla and Khaine. They might even be daemon prince equivalents who are unaware of who their own excesses feed. But the realm of chaos is like soup, lots of bits swirling around in the broth and some of them might be carrots and others might be sweet potatoes even if they're both orange.
 

Brock Savage

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Each of the Chaos Gods are a big tent covering many, many archetypes across almost the entire human experience; that's what makes them so cool and scary! I am interested in the synergy between the Chaos Gods who do not oppose each other. For WFRP and 40K I made a Slaanesh-Nurgle cult called The Convent of Rapturous Decay. Members cycle through decadence and nihilism, growing ever more extreme until they self-destruct. Or transcend and become a daemon.
 

CRKrueger

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Gluttony is pure Slaanesh. And it's not just the desire - it's your right! You've earned this. But that guy? He hasn't earned it. Everything he has, is something you can't have. He doesn't deserve it. Go ahead. Take it. Take everything from him. Take whatever. You. Want.


They're bloated like corpses, not fat. Nurgle's generous, he loves his followers, he loves his diseases, he only wants to share; he's actually canonically genuinely nice. And he's even capable of love! He lives Isha, the Eldar goddess of Healing, so much!


Sure. But everybody needs a rest now and then, right? You can't work all the time. Stay home. It's fine, your friends will cover for you. It's just a battle, they've fought a few beastmen before. Crack open an ale. They're only outnumbered five to one! You wouldn't even make a difference. Put your feet up, grab a chicken leg, and have a wank. Everything is gonna be just fine.


iirc Age of Sigmar settled that Khaine and Khorne are not the same god.
I think he was talking about the Human God Khaine the God of Assassins and murder, and Bloody-Handed Khaine the Elven God being the same.
 

Simlasa

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iirc Age of Sigmar settled that Khaine and Khorne are not the same god.
I think he was talking about the Human God Khaine the God of Assassins and murder, and Bloody-Handed Khaine the Elven God being the same.
I'm going off of some early WD bit about the fantasy Dark Elves, who followed Slaanesh before turning to Khaine... I was pretty sure it mentioned Kaine being Khorne.
The Eldar have Kaela Mensha Khaine , Bloody Handed Khaine, whose avatar sometimes shows up on the battleground.

Not that it matters... everything is liquid in GW's lore.
I like the idea of the chaos gods having lots of avatars... like Nyarlathotep.
 

David Johansen

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Ronald McDonald and the Burger King are manifestations of Slannesh which give great offense to Nurgle due to their cleanliness and sterility.
 

Stevethulhu

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Warhammer has its fast food - who can forget rat on a stick
Get your meat pie! Made from genuine animal parts! Sausages so fresh the pig doesn't know they're gone!

Love a bit of Cut My Own Throat Dibbler.

Though I do seem to remember them eating rat on a stick in Conan the Barbarian. Around the same time they get black lotus and Conan punches out a camel.
 

Black Leaf

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I'm going off of some early WD bit about the fantasy Dark Elves, who followed Slaanesh before turning to Khaine... I was pretty sure it mentioned Kaine being Khorne.
The Eldar have Kaela Mensha Khaine , Bloody Handed Khaine, whose avatar sometimes shows up on the battleground.

Not that it matters... everything is liquid in GW's lore.
I like the idea of the chaos gods having lots of avatars... like Nyarlathotep.
As you say, it's liquid. But my understanding of WFRP lore here is that the majority faction of the Dark Elves follows Khaine and that Slaanesh is a small illegal cult headed up by the Witch King's mother.

I actually prefer Khaine not being an avatar of Khorne. I like having evil gods who aren't chaos.

One idea I have for an adventure is that the characters track down some Khainite ritual murders to find out that it's actually local cultists picking off Chaos cultists one by one. At that point they have to decide whether to leave an evil cult intact, on the grounds that it's actually in the forefront of the fight against Chaos.
 

CRKrueger

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Get your meat pie! Made from genuine animal parts! Sausages so fresh the pig doesn't know they're gone!

Love a bit of Cut My Own Throat Dibbler.

Though I do seem to remember them eating rat on a stick in Conan the Barbarian. Around the same time they get black lotus and Conan punches out a camel.
Was it rat? I thought it looked more like a some lizard.
 

Simlasa

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'Rat On A Stick' was a thing in World of Warcraft... there was a quest where you collected rats for the vendor, in the subway.
 

Gringnr

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"Rat on a Stick" was also a Judges Guild module for Tunnels & Trolls. It was a 10-level dungeon. You could play it straight (as straight as T&T gets, anyway), or you could set up "Rat on a Stick" franchises inside, and attempt to turn a profit on your investment without getting killed. There were supplemental rules for those who wished to go that route. I have a sealed copy. 32 pages, and thin as a razor blade. Love that janky JG quality! Make no mistake, though, it's a fully stocked and featured dungeon, that no party would likely come close to clearing. It also allows the (suicidal) party to immediately descend to its lowest (and most deadly) level.
 

Brock Savage

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32 pages, and thin as a razor blade.
Definitely my preferred format for hardcopy adventures! Gygax did it with B2 and it is still a solid format for writers that stick to terse, evocative descriptions and strictly gameable content. I swear that the industry must pay by the word because so many adventures are bloated with useless garbage that is unusable at the table. Many adventures feel like they were written to entertain the reader with lonely fun instead of being used at the table.
 

David Johansen

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I've always been partial to The Commandant's Deep Fried Lizard Parts in their red and white striped bucket.
 

Gringnr

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Definitely my preferred format for hardcopy adventures! Gygax did it with B2 and it is still a solid format for writers that stick to terse, evocative descriptions and strictly gameable content. I swear that the industry must pay by the word because so many adventures are bloated with useless garbage that is unusable at the table. Many adventures feel like they were written to entertain the reader with lonely fun instead of being used at the table.

So true. Short and to the point, please. I'm not that smart, and I don't have a lot of free time.

Also "lonely fun" rules.
 

Simlasa

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As you say, it's liquid. But my understanding of WFRP lore here is that the majority faction of the Dark Elves follows Khaine and that Slaanesh is a small illegal cult headed up by the Witch King's mother.
I'm getting it from an old 'Regiments of Renown' article about the Witch Elves returning from exile to attack the High Elves
Specifically this bit:

“They had turned from the worship of Slaanesh soon after their exile from the Elven Kingdoms, and, still drawn by the allure of Chaos, took the murderous Khaine as their new Master… <snip> ... For Khaine is that aspect of the Blood God recognised by the Druchii, and the Blood God, known to other races as Khorne, is the sworn enemy of Slaanesh.”

Not that there is any right or wrong about any of it. I'm just a fan of the older (Oldhammer) lore.
 

Ladybird

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“They had turned from the worship of Slaanesh soon after their exile from the Elven Kingdoms, and, still drawn by the allure of Chaos, took the murderous Khaine as their new Master… <snip> ... For Khaine is that aspect of the Blood God recognised by the Druchii, and the Blood God, known to other races as Khorne, is the sworn enemy of Slaanesh.”

Not that there is any right or wrong about any of it. I'm just a fan of the older (Oldhammer) lore.
I love the Witch Elf aesthetic, and the new models really benefit from GW's improvements in dynamic posing. I'm not entirely convinced by the Lamias, but I guess now they're a full faction they need some conceptual and aesthetic variety.
 

Brock Savage

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I love the Witch Elf aesthetic, and the new models really benefit from GW's improvements in dynamic posing.
Wow you're right, the new witch elves look good. Even though I have been a fan of the franchise since age 13 I have to say that GW often fails at modelling female miniatures.
 

Brock Savage

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I like them too. Too bad they wouldn't fit in with any of my existing Dark Elf stuff... most of it from 3rd/4th edition era.
You should see my museum of old Warhammer miniatures. Skaven are particularly bad, the new stuff and old stuff don't match too well, I should just sell it off.
 

Simlasa

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You should see my museum of old Warhammer miniatures. Skaven are particularly bad, the new stuff and old stuff don't match too well, I should just sell it off.
Old Skaven are nice. The Middlehammer one's look like chimps... then the newer plastic were nice again.
 

TristramEvans

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Old Skaven are nice. The Middlehammer one's look like chimps... then the newer plastic were nice again.
Yup. The original Skaven are fantastic. When they turned it over to Marauder, they were ...less fantastic. And The monkeyrats of 6th are just sad. I like the new ones, but they are more cartoony, like an animated series version. I mostly collect the originals.

32114499322_3ae7a3a862_c.jpg
 

Luca

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I keep wondering how GW plans to survive the incoming 3d printer/scanner onslaught.

They're not yet at the point of being able to produce minis of GW's quality... but it's only a matter of time. 5/10 years at most.
 

TristramEvans

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I keep wondering how GW plans to survive the incoming 3d printer/scanner onslaught.

They're not yet at the point of being able to produce minis of GW's quality... but it's only a matter of time. 5/10 years at most.
IF they're smart, they'll eventually sell STL designs. But there's also still going to be people willing to pay for the convenience of being able to buy an army at once, vs spend weeks, even months, printing one. Only official GW models can be used in any of the major tournaments, or in their stores. And GW offers a "full package" approach - minis, rules, books, paints, and storespace for gaming.

I think 10 years is a bit optimistic for 3d printing tech to become both ubiquitous, affordable, and at the same time capable of reproducing the advanced kits made by injection molds.

Eventually they'll probably have to shift their business practices to adapt to changing tech, but that is true of any company.

I think the real indicator will be watching book sales. PoD books have been around longer than 3D printers, but that's a LONG way off from killing traditional publishing methods. Sure, digital books are getting more and more popular, but boutique book saes, like Folio and Easton Press, have actualy had increased sales in recent years. Traditional publishing will move more and more towards a boutique business platform overall, and that's very much what GW wants to be anyways.
 
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