What do you like that 'everyone' hates?

Baeraad

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Last week's episode of Game of Thrones. (I'd almost say the series as a whole, because it's not like everyone being grievously offended by every single episode is anything new, it's just never reached quite this level before...) Star Trek Voyager. The new Star Wars trilogy.

Outside of nerd media, Celine Dion. At least I get the general impression that I'm supposed to be finding her unbearably cheesy.

As far as roleplaying goes? Mmm... personality mechanics, probably. And I also thought that MoEP: Infernals was at least moderately entertaining, though I'm not sure I'd have used a number of parts from it in an actual campaign or anything.
 

EmperorNorton

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I dig PbtA, experimental and 'storygames' that tend to get guff in certain circles online.
I have such a wide love of RPG systems that I find that there is no place on the net that seems to fit my omnigame style.

Like I love some OSR games, I love PbtA games, Blades in the Dark is amazing, Chuubo's is a brilliant if incredibly hard to comprehend design, Fiasco is fun, Savage Worlds, Cortex, FATE, 5e D&D, even 4e D&D isn't a bad game if you focus on what it is good at. I like light games, heavy games, fantasy, scifi, traditional, narrative, "story", its all got its place and I enjoy all of them.

And I think that there is a lot you can learn from reading a huge variety of systems.
 

spittingimage

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Using romance and sexuality in games.
You couldn't pay me enough to flirt with my players.

I don't know if you could release a beautifully minimalist game book like Traveller these days without it being mocked.
A big publisher couldn't, but I often browse the small publisher games on DrivethruRPG and find small, art-free sourcebooks. I think the worst they get is ignored. I like minimal-art, minimal-colour books. PDF is how I get most of my games. If I like it enough, I'll probably print it out to read away from the keyboard. Think I could do that with Eclipse Phase or Stars Without Number? Not without killing a print cartridge.

How do you all feel about malt vinegar on your fries?
I'm in favour.

So what do I like that everyone hates? Blue cheese. Anchovies. Ouzo.
 

3rik

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raniE

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It can't be everyone, because it is so big, but I actually think The Forgotten Realms is a good setting. Especially as presented in the original box set and the early series of setting books (like The Savage Frontier by Jennell Jaquays). Around a lot of places on the internet, and among some of my friends in the real world, that is not a mainstream opinion.
 

TristramEvans

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It can't be everyone, because it is so big, but I actually think The Forgotten Realms is a good setting. Especially as presented in the original box set and the early series of setting books (like The Savage Frontier by Jennell Jaquays). Around a lot of places on the internet, and among some of my friends in the real world, that is not a mainstream opinion.
Huh, I've never heard any bad words about Forgotten Realms, but I guess I never participated much in any D&D-focused forums. My AD&D days were back when the internet was mainly for usenet and Quake (QUAKE!!!)
 

Voros

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It can't be everyone, because it is so big, but I actually think The Forgotten Realms is a good setting. Especially as presented in the original box set and the early series of setting books (like The Savage Frontier by Jennell Jaquays). Around a lot of places on the internet, and among some of my friends in the real world, that is not a mainstream opinion.
Totally agree. And its just not the early books, one of the last 2e books was the excellent Skullport city supplement that is still a favourite of mine.
 

Nexus

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"Everyone hates" was probably a little to hyperbolic. I more meant things you have the impression are unpopular over all, maybe that get kicked around online allot in your experience.
 

Nexus

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Hmm, I'm not sure I know of anything "everyone hates", but I like lots of things that foster very divided opinions (people seem to either love or hate intensely). I'm sure I'm not aware of most of them honestly, as I tend to ignore fan communities and I don't, by nature. evaluate my enjoyment of something based on any sort of majority consensus

In regards to RPGs I've seen some fair amount of shade cast on Changeling: The Dreaming 1e, Nobilis 1e, Shadowrun 2e, The Streetfighter RPG, Theatrix, The Window. Not a big list, but I just haven't perceived a vast amount of hate towards a lot of games I really like, in some cases maybe because they are incredibly obscure (Dallas) or so old that I got into them before the internet was a thing.

It's easier for me to come up with a list of TV and films I know inspire very diverse opinions, maybe because opinions on these things are more prevalent instead of relegated to niche hobby forums: Elfen Leid, Fight Club, Prometheus, Watchmen, etc.

However, when it comes to the specific term "Guilty Pleasure", I associate that with stuff you know is "bad" in some way, but still find personal enjoyment in it. I don't feel any guilt or shame about liking anything (especially not any of the stuff previously mentioned), but there are many things I acknowledge that fail in certain traditional metrics, but succeed for me personally in ways that are not universal or are somewhat hard to define (usually resorting to terms like "charm" or "creativity"). I can't honestly think of any RPG products that fit this description, but tons of B-movies and cartoons.
Gah, movie wise it seems like almost everything I like ends up getting panned by 'net and in general. I loved the most recent Conan remake, for instance and I'll admit it, I still think the Matrix is pretty good especially if taken as a self contained story (while fun spectacle the sequels had more dubious elements and over complicated things, imo)
 

Nobby-W

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Modern story games.
[ . . . ]
A: I don't know. Disco? The Bee Gees? Xanadu? Erik Estrada? How do you all feel about malt vinegar on your fries?
The poms love salt and vinegar on their chips (Mcdonalds is the only place you can buy 'fries' here in the UK). You'll get it offered at any fish and chips shop. On the other hand, they're all a pack of Marmite eating heathens. Vegemite for the win!
 
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Trippy

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I like the 4th installment of the WFRP Enemy Within Campaign, Something Rotten in Kislev.

It's so unpopular that the revised deluxe edition for the new 4th Edition of WFRP is replacing it with an entirely new episode.

But I really like it!
 

Trippy

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Mongoose Traveller.

Steampulp.

Two of the only topics on the Pub that I got a lot of push back on. Mongoose Traveller as a discussion point nearly got the place burned down.
I love Mongoose Traveller.
 

CRKrueger

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People don’t like Mongoose’s Traveller? Sure they kind of pissed people off with the Second Edition 3PP license, but it’s still a good game.
 

Necrozius

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Neat, I seem to have many unpopular opinions shared with you folks, :smile:

But here’s a big one:

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3e

But I like the board game aspects of it. My friends all have very fond memories.

FFG were ahead of their time, I say: huge, expensive board games with the complexity of RPGs are the thing nowadays. WFRP 3 would’ve been a better fit lately.

Obviously they must’ve improved the idea of the system because people are tripping over each other throwing praise over the new Star Wars and Genesys systems.
 

CRKrueger

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Neat, I seem to have many unpopular opinions shared with you folks, :smile:

But here’s a big one:

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3e

But I like the board game aspects of it. My friends all have very fond memories.

FFG were ahead of their time, I say: huge, expensive board games with the complexity of RPGs are the thing nowadays. WFRP 3 would’ve been a better fit lately.

Obviously they must’ve improved the idea of the system because people are tripping over each other throwing praise over the new Star Wars and Genesys systems.
<Takes a slow, deep breath>
Ok, WFRP3...
  • Hated the overly formal narrative bits and the weird rules holes they created
  • Thought the cards and widgets were actually effective at keeping track of everything
  • Coming up with little narrative bits to add story to every frickin’ die roll got tiring, and in many cases, broke the flow of action
  • Had a lot of really cool ideas in an otherwise flawed game.
  • By god though, playing a Wardancer with the ebb and flow of offence and defense actually felt like a war dance. Other signature WFB class types were similarly brilliantly represented.
  • In a perfect world, with unlimited time, I would have redesigned the rest, the best parts of it were so good
  • Whoever thought any of those maps were sufficient considering the previous standard should be covered in Marmite and tossed in a pit filled with rabid, starving Skaven
 

AsenRG

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What are your guilty pleasures?
I've got no guilty pleasures. Some people on Internet are guilty of not understanding how great some of the things I like are:smile:!


That said, I'm not sure what "everyone dislikes". Maybe simulationist mechanics? I have no idea how popular it is these days.
OK, I'm just going to say "simulationist mechanics", and check the things that you guys have listed for other things I like.
So, Simulationist mechanics

Also:
Drow (they're just Melnibonean, people...)
Book of Erotic Fantasy (as a concept, not so much the execution)
Using romance and sexuality in games
Exalted: The Lunars 2nd edition (and arguably the 1st edition, too...)
Exalted Manual of Power: The Infernals
Books with no art
Playing 'not-so-nice' characters
Playing characters that really should be taken out and shot in the head in the interest of betterment of the human race (and yes, I've also played characters who'd do exactly that, too...:grin:)
Baroque and intricate rulesets (up to a point)
Undead that drain levels make sense to me
Keeping one's political/religious opinions to one's self should be mandatory, not an exception, IMO
Random char gen is an option I've grown more fond towards, especially lately...
I also like point based/stat array character gen (well, both it and random chargen are inferior to lifepaths, but you can't have everything)
Also, I like Iron Age superheroes, but didn't know they're hated...
I also like all kinds of games, though I've been focusing on some styles more than others, especially lately. Didn't know that was hated, either!


I thought that was a fine movie. What made the book so enjoyable was completely untranslatable to film, but just as a medieval action story with nods to Beowulf, I thought it succeeded completely at what it set out to do.

This many years later I remember my favourite joke from that movie clearly: The Big Burly viking hands The Moor a broadsword, and he says "this sword is too heavy too me", and theViking chuckles and says "grow stronger". That's a good line. A classic line.
We had a similar situation in a game.
The huge half-Native American bouncer (presenting himself with the name Sitting Oak) agrees to a sparring with a PC coming into 2080 New York from a "New Age"-styled commune where he'd learned Aikido-like style. He'd also used that to help Sitting Oak with some unruly customers, because they were drunk and "they were harming the harmony of the place" (first time the roach-infested hotel learned it's got a harmony, I'd wager...)
Then Sitting Oak proceeded to beat the living daylights out of him, due to having superior strength and speed (but not injuring him much, he was being friendly to the weird but well-intentioned guy). And to add insult to injury, he tackled him to the ground, too.
The guy looks at him and asks, "how come you're so strong?", expecting to hear about his style (and I think he was metagaming, knowing me).
Sitting Oak looks at him and shrugs.
"To be a strong fighter, you gotta have strength! I've got that, you ain't. So you lost."
"What do I do to get stronger?", he asks, still expecting tips on punching power.
"OK, first you make front presses on the floor. How many can you make? That ain't any good! And what about your pull-ups? Man, are you weak! I'm glad I didn't break you by accident!"
And then he wrote him a powerlifting program for beginners, complete with a high-protein diet. The players were kinda surpised to hear the recipe "beer and whipped cream"...and even more surprised to learn that it's a real supplement:devil:!

Star Wars Saga Edition (completely unrelated) is the best Star Wars RPG I've ever seen, period.
Have you ever seen StarORE:evil:?

Mongoose Traveller.

Steampulp.
Wait, who hates Mongoose Traveller? I thought a lot of us are fans of Cepheus Engine, which is based on MgT?

And WTH is steampulp?

And BTW, John Carter was a disappointment because it "disneyfied" Barsoom. What do you mean, no nudity:tongue:?
 

robertsconley

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I don't know if you could release a beautifully minimalist game book like Traveller these days without it being mocked. But I would rather see books with less art/no art than art that detracts from the game.
My experience is that you just need to be upfront about it and why. And realize that there is good minimalist layout and bad minimalist layout. Taking the minimalist approach is not a magic wand. You have to work at it just you do with full color layouts.
 

Baulderstone

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Murderhobos
I think there is a lot of love for murderhobos in the OSR. It's just one of those things where everyone needs to be on the same page.
Liking the 13th warrior movie which everyone seems to detest.
While that movie didn't go over with mainstream critics and audiences, I've always thought that was appreciated among gamers.

Fudging die rolls to save characters at times (I always get a lot of flak from other GMs for that one).
As a fellow GM, that doesn't bother me, but it does as a player. If I sense a GM just fudged a roll to save me from the consequences of my actions, the air goes out of a game completely for me.

That said, I'm fine with games where death isn't an option. I just don't like it when there is a pretense of it being a possibility, but the GM is fudging it. Basically, I'd rather the GM was just upfront about it rather than dangling deadly situations without allowing them to pay-off.

This is just my opinion though. I know there are plenty of players that are fine with the GM saving them, so as long as your players are in that group, it isn't an issue.
Preferring the d100 OpenQuest (latest deluxe edition) to Mythras and all other d100 games.
OpenQuest is great. I really like the supplements for it too.
Lots of TV shows that I know are not all that good but I enjoy watching anyway.
I watched the first couple of seasons of Agents of SHIELD, which was not good, but I was kind of mesmerized by the way it was bad in such a '70s TV kind of way. With all the fantastic TV on today, there was something refreshing about its unambitious trashiness. I actually lost interest in the show as it gradually got "better".

It seems like the members of the Pub have a lot of different gaming styles, expectations, game theory, and variety of games represented. I don't think I've seen one game universally hated (maybe some game designers LOL), so I agree that here there really isn't a lot of hated games that if I liked I would feel like it was a guilty pleasure.

That being said, in my gaming community PbtA and Rifts are both looked down upon and I am a fan of both. The gaming climate where I live is basically anything that is not D&D 5E is pretty well passed over. That's not the RPG Pub, though.
As someone whose gaming tastes are all over the map, I respect that you like both PbtA and Rifts, two very different approaches to game design.

I'm hoping the Pub remains a place where people feel comfortable talking about a wide variety of games. Forums often go through a winnowing process where they shut down discussion of all the agreed upon "bad" games and opinions on gaming until it is just a bunch of people reinforcing what they already think.
Precisely so.

I don't know if you could release a beautifully minimalist game book like Traveller these days without it being mocked. But I would rather see books with less art/no art than art that detracts from the game.

Perhaps this is why I like Palladium's line art as much as I do.
One interesting side effect of the Kickstarter era is that they often release early drafts to backers, meaning that the first read of a game is done in a format free of art and layout.
Marvel SAGA is the best superhero game I've ever seen, period.
Never played that, but a friend of mine ran an awesome game based on the Black Company novels using the Dragonlance SAGA system.
Mongoose Traveller.

Steampulp.

Two of the only topics on the Pub that I got a lot of push back on. Mongoose Traveller as a discussion point nearly got the place burned down.
I'd say its mostly a couple of loud voices pushing back rather than any kind of consensus.
I like Dragonlance, Spelljammer and 2e D&D which are fashionable to dump on.
I've noticed 2E seems to get more respect in OSR circles these days as a generally solid edition.

I love free jazz, noise, noise rock, early death, black and doom metal. 'It's weird noise not music' is usually a recommendation to me. But I also love soul, hip-hop, blues, country, ska/rocksteady/reggae, disco and electronica, genres that tend to be stereotyped in a variety of ways.
One of my least favorite small talk questions is "What kind of music do you like?" I'm all over the map musically. While there is music I love and music I hate, it doesn't map easily into clear boxes that I can sum up in a quick sound bite.
It can't be everyone, because it is so big, but I actually think The Forgotten Realms is a good setting. Especially as presented in the original box set and the early series of setting books (like The Savage Frontier by Jennell Jaquays). Around a lot of places on the internet, and among some of my friends in the real world, that is not a mainstream opinion.
In general, I think RPG settings suffer when they are over-developed. The development of a line and what is happening at people's tables rarely line up. I've liked the approach that Pinnacle has taken with most of their plot point setting of just releasing a main book, and maybe a companion, then leaving it alone.
Gah, movie wise it seems like almost everything I like ends up getting panned by 'net and in general. I loved the most recent Conan remake, for instance and I'll admit it, I still think the Matrix is pretty good especially if taken as a self contained story (while fun spectacle the sequels had more dubious elements and over complicated things, imo)
I remember being surprised that there was a Matrix sequel coming out (which was kind of dumb of me. Of course, a hugely successful action movie was getting a sequel). It didn't take the story entirely to conclusion, but I liked the implied sense of inevitable victory at the end of The Matrix.
 

Simlasa

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Common ones I stand alone on among my friends:
old black and white movies
horror movies
horror RPGs (which, even if they do end up on the table, people gravitate towards playing as action hero/adventure instead).
RPGs where PCs have no 'plot immunity'
RPG magic systems that depict magic as dangerous/complex/inconvenient/unreliable/weird
Games with weird settings/premises like... well, any of the Abstract Nova stuff.

I'm another who liked The 13th Warrior... I was a fan of the book (Eaters of the Dead) as a kid but didn't care if the movie took other tangents.
Also, minimal art in rulebooks.
 
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Gronan of Simmerya

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I like combat systems where fighters are part of a unit rather than individual wire-fu heroes.
 

Teyrnon

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It can't be everyone, because it is so big, but I actually think The Forgotten Realms is a good setting. Especially as presented in the original box set and the early series of setting books (like The Savage Frontier by Jennell Jaquays). Around a lot of places on the internet, and among some of my friends in the real world, that is not a mainstream opinion.
The only hatred for The Forgotten Realms was late 90s-early aughts. The main complaints seemed to be that it was bland, generic, and a kitchen sink setting. It always seemed to be more a case of familiarity breeding contempt more than valid criticisms of it as a setting.
 

urbwar

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13th Warrior is awesome. And I love me some Lucifer.

As for gaming, I think I am the only one who likes the rpg Brave New World. I played a demo of it before it came out, and enjoyed it. It's just not a typical supers game, and doesn't handle high level supers, but for what it is, it does well.
 

Gringnr

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I like Salmiakki. A lot. Most people think it tastes like battery acid mixed with cat piss. But I enjoy it.
 

Apparition

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Buck Rogers XXVc. Combined with the (perhaps correct) belief that TSR killed off Star Frontiers in favor of it, the Lorraine Williams scandal, and that people saw "Buck Rogers" and automatically assumed that it had to do with the campy 1970s television show, a lot of people never gave the game a chance. Their loss.
 

Endless Flight

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Buck Rogers XXVc. Combined with the (perhaps correct) belief that TSR killed off Star Frontiers in favor of it, the Lorraine Williams scandal, and that people saw "Buck Rogers" and automatically assumed that it had to do with the campy 1970s television show, a lot of people never gave the game a chance. Their loss.
I’ve got that boxed set somewhere in my storage unit. I’ll have to dig it out to take another look at it.
 

Teyrnon

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I rather liked Amazing Engine. The settings were interesting and I had a few fun sessions playing Bug Hunters way back when. I also thought the High Adventure Cliffhangers Buck Rogers had interesting potential system wise. Would have preferred if it had kept up the setting from XXVc though.
 
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