What do you think are the most damaging ideas in the hobby?

Acmegamer

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I agree that it would be a mistake to make this a place for complaining about RPG.net and its moderators. Cross-forum drama never ends well.
I agree, it's not productive. Which is why if the moderators think it's a good idea to Remove my post above, I'd be fine with that personally. I only posted what I did because they were mentioned in the thread and it had been on my mind after going down the rabbit hole I went down recently while seeking out something about Delta Green. I'm still kinda shocked at what I found I have to admit.
 

David Johansen

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Personally, I think rpgnet's problem has more to do with fear of any contention at all rather than a particular political leaning. Sure they're over on the progressive left but they were once a site renowned for their hostility and viciousness (good times those) and they've been trying to overcome that for a long time. I still post there a little, to spam my games mostly, but there is an amazing Where I Read X-Men thread and the various image threads on Tangency are often worth looking at..

The rpgsite used to be a forum for discussing rpgs. It's really just an outpost in the culture war at this point and a really hostile one at that.
 

TristramEvans

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I agree, it's not productive. Which is why if the moderators think it's a good idea to Remove my post above, I'd be fine with that personally.


Nah, everyone's free to share their opinions / experiences, I just want to keep from giving the impression that it's a "official" position of the Mods here. It's inevitable people are going to vent from time to time, I just don't think we should have any specific "RPGnet is TEH Suxxors!" threads
 

Endless Flight

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I have read malicious criticism of RPGnet elsewhere but I have not found it here. We have members who don’t agree with the principles that they go by. We’ve been criticized by people over there for not following certain principles. I don’t find it to be a problem. There’s plenty of places around to find a home at. I was never comfortable anywhere else so the Pub was born.

The only thing I have a small issue with is somebody who complains about moderation here and would run off elsewhere.
 

Isator Levi

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Personally, I think rpgnet's problem has more to do with fear of any contention at all[
There was this one person on the forum with whom I would frequently butt heads over Harry Potter of all things. I had certain criticisms of it, that person was really into it and strongly disliked my criticisms, back and forth in multiple threads that must have happened over years. Moderation only got involved when the person crossed the line of saying "you always have the worst takes" and when I crossed the line of trying to make a point about the books by prodding on that person's previously stated real life fears.

Far from the only time I ever give or get any contention there, just one of those examples to suggest that there's a line.

rather than a particular political leaning.
If one site out of three is going to say "feel free to vent" to me, then I finally have a venue to respond to the line that somebody in the world has made of "it's the left's answer to Fox" by asking somebody to see how far they get trying to advocate for socialist revolution or acceleration there.

Or hell, being overly touchy about the word "communist" being used pejoratively to describe the old regime, as addressed to actual members from Poland. That shit gets smacked right down.

Oh, I actually once saw a person have a disagreement with a moderator (who was just posting as a regular member) about how their argument that it was improper to bring up issues with the civil rights track record of the Allies in a thread commemorating the anniversary of the Nazi and Soviet invasion of Poland, pointing out that Polish people in the thread had been bringing up the same points, and the mod acknowledged fault and laid off. That were only two years ago.

So that was a person contending other people in the thread, and then somebody contending them by pointing out that people for whom the subject was closer to home contended it, and it was just a... normal conversation.

About Poland being invaded. If you can have cordial disagreements about that, you can have it about lots of things.
 

Voros

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"Criticism" never happens in a vacuum and people who become invested in a particularly angle of criticism rarely stick to just voicing that criticism in the spirit of understanding and the exchange of ideas, but often start demanding social change, government control or for companies to make changes (or else), in order to conform to that criticism. As can be found in plenty of examples across different kinds of media in recent years. But getting too deep into that probably leads us down into the forbidden subject in this boards.

I think you're talking more about moral outrage, which is pretty distinct from criticism in the sense used in the humanities. There it is a form of intellectual inquiry, not moralistic judgements.
 

Ravenswing

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The rpgsite used to be a forum for discussing rpgs. It's really just an outpost in the culture war at this point and a really hostile one at that.

It really is. Now you can disagree with them over there -- unlike at TBP -- but they've gone far off the deep end, and half the site seems drenched in hysterical hyperbole.
 

TristramEvans

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giphy.gif
 

Voros

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It really is. Now you can disagree with them over there -- unlike at TBP -- but they've gone far off the deep end, and half the site seems drenched in hysterical hyperbole.

Several posters here, myself included, were banned from the Site for daring to disagree with or mocking Pundit's self-importance and not licking his boots when he tried to bully them with threats of a ban so I'm not buying the 'you can disagree with them over there.'

In terms of humourlessness, my ban came because I posted a Looney Tune clip to make fun of Pundit's pathetic toughguy act. So TBP is not the only place lacking a sense of humour.
 
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VisionStorm

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The rpgsite used to be a forum for discussing rpgs. It's really just an outpost in the culture war at this point and a really hostile one at that.

I really tried to like the Site--"free speech" and all that, and not having to walk around "no politics" eggshells (sort of*), etc.--plus I liked a couple of people there. But political discussions at over there are pretty much pointless, cuz like 90% of the posters agree on politics (at least about the Culture War) and the few that don't are HORRIBLE at arguing their case (not that people on the other side at terribly better), so it always devolves into mud slinging, which just turns the community overly hostile and argumentative.

And when people actually discuss games most of the time it's just to go on and on about how great the OSR is and OD&D was the greatest game ever created. So it's an OSR echo chamber on top of being a political echo chamber as well.

Just about the only thing the Site is good for is being able to openly point at the elephant in the room any time something political comes up in RPGs and say "Did you see that elephant over there?" And everyone would be like "Yes, that's a huge ass elephant". And then everyone would nod in agreement about how bad the elephant is, with just a few occasional objections here and there. And those objectors eventually get banned (except for a few long time posters who know the score) when the whole thing devolves into an all out political argument and they keep crossing the "no non-RPG related politics at the main board" rule.

*you're technically not supposed to talk politics in general at the main boards, only as it pertains to the RPG hobby--like discussing politics in just that context won't turn into a full blown political discussion.
 

Voros

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I really tried to like the Site--"free speech" and all that, and not having to walk around "no politics" eggshells (sort of*), etc.--plus I liked a couple of people there. But political discussions at over there are pretty much pointless, cuz like 90% of the posters agree on politics (at least about the Culture War) and the few that don't are HORRIBLE at arguing their case (not that people on the other side at terribly better), so it always devolves into mud slinging, which just turns the community overly hostile and argumentative.

And when people actually discuss games most of the time it's just to go on and on about how great the OSR is and OD&D was the greatest game ever created. So it's an OSR echo chamber on top of being a political echo chamber as well.

Just about the only thing the Site is good for is being able to openly point at the elephant in the room any time something political comes up in RPGs and say "Did you see that elephant over there?" And everyone would be like "Yes, that's a huge ass elephant". And then everyone would nod in agreement about how bad the elephant is, with just a few occasional objections here and there. And those objectors eventually get banned (except for a few long time posters who know the score) when the whole thing devolves into an all out political argument and they keep crossing the "no non-RPG related politics at the main board" rule.

*you're technically not supposed to talk politics in general at the main boards, only as it pertains to the RPG hobby--like discussing politics in just that context won't turn into a full blown political discussion.

That's not what I saw, most of the bans come from people just disageeeing with Pundit and then when he threatens a ban, if they stopped responding he'd crow about it and call them wusses (literally), if they didn't back down, they'd catch a ban, often in the subforum expressly dedicated to politics and 'free speech.'

The political toxicity of the Pundency subforum spread throughout the forum. Once a poster had pissed off Pundit there he'd look for any excuse to ban that poster elsewhere on the forum, no different than TBP.

It had less to do with politics per se, the main sin is to disagree with Pundit too strenously and too often. Bans were handed out to those on the right, left and centre, the common denominator is disagreeing with Pundit and making him look foolish and/or mocking him.

I think those who wisely avoided the cesspool that was Pundency are often unaware of Pundit's behaviour there and so don't realize what is actually happening. Or have drank the Kool-Aid and can't see what is going on because it is coming from their 'side.'

I once had him frothing mad, posting in all caps and everything, and threatening to ban me for pointing out facts about comic sales he didn't like.
 
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Raleel

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Sometimes I thought the warnings and bans were warranted. Overall though I felt that they were overly reactive, harsh, hypocritical and flat out nasty at times. I was searching for something to do with Delta Green the other day and my search led me to Big Purple, in the thread I found a few warnings and bans. Including one against @
Raleel
Raleel which surprised the hell out of me.
gotta tell you, i have no idea what it was for. I certainly don't remember.
 

VisionStorm

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That's not what I saw, most of the bans come from people just disageeeing with Pundit and then when he threatens a ban, if they stopped responding he'd crow about it and call them wusses (literally), if they didn't back down, they'd catch a ban, often in the subforum supposedly dedicated to politics and 'free speech.'

The political toxicity of the Pundency subforum spread throughout the forum. Once a poster had pissed off Pundit there he'd look for any excuse to ban that poster elsewhere on the forum, no different than TBP. I think those who wisely avoided the cesspool that was Pundency are often unaware of Pundit's behaviour there and so don't realize what is actually happening. Or have drank the Kool-Aid and can't see what is gojng on because it is coming from their 'side.'

I once had him frothing mad, posting in all caps and everything, and threatening to ban me for pointing out facts about comic sales he didn't like.

IDK, Pundit is kinda moody and bipolar, so I wouldn't rule that out. But most of the bannings I actually witnessed were non-RPG politics related, including at least one time when the poster was just over the top hostile and bringing up politics from the get go. The guy is just very inconsistent about moderation, and would sometimes let stuff pass or go on longer than others depending on how he was feeling that day.
 

Paradigm Shaft

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I was banned for saying America is constantly on the verge of a race war, and it was construed as an attack on Americans rather than a reading of all of American history. :|

I really should keep my mouth shut. No one wants to hear my hot takes. I eventually scrambled my password and left. I cannot bear the constant stress of walking the narrow political line they allow.

Anyway, the Big Purple exists, and I don't actually think it's detrimental to the hobby, only people's mental health.
 

TristramEvans

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Isator Levi

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Now you can disagree with them over there -- unlike at TBP
Well how far going disagreement are we talking about here? Is it about saying "I don't agree with the thing", or does it have to be that the person who disagrees with the thing can then get to do what they want anyway?

I see plenty of the former where the worst that might happen is closing the thread started solely for the purpose of saying that they disagree with the thing. Like, so long as the person doesn't spend something like three straight days posting about nothing else except how they disagree with the thing.

Hell, I've seen a lot more people there who post regularly punctuated with the occasional "I am willing to state that I disagree with some mod calls and am constantly anxious about getting banned" then I do actually get banned for it.

But I guess that's the other side, that people can just say that and then simply get on with things that a person would only ever notice if they were paying close attention.

Hahaha, no I'm remembering the time that I started a thread asking if people got all they wanted out of the site and said at the start "please don't just use this to gripe about disagreements with the mods", and of course a bunch of them did it anyway. And the thread eventually got locked, and nobody got banned over it, and everybody who griped still makes about ten normal posts a day.

And I, person who brought up not getting all I wanted out of the forum, wound up here occasionally. Circle of life.

Now I just need to figure out where there's more discussion of The Owl House and Helluva Boss...
 

Isator Levi

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I joined, and never saw any of this stuff. Of course, when I joined, I promptly forgot I joined, and whenever I'm tempted to make use of my login, it's in one of these threads and I think better of it...
I'll also put forth the opinion that 90% of the people who talk on Tabletop Roleplaying Open and related sub-forums would never know about any of this stuff.

The only real difference between that forum and this one is that the front page is longer, and a third of it will be on the second page by tomorrow.
 

Voros

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I caught short term bans on TBP for making a Dad joke about Harry Potter (seems to be a theme over there) and saying that most classic horror films were about trauma and madness.

My last ban was over Tolkien and C.S. Lewis where I asked a question about St. Tolkien and when dogpiled was short term banned for talking back to my betters.

I think one of the mods had something against me early on because I posted an observation about hippie cults I think they took as a personal affront, plus the horror movie thing.

After that it seemed like they only logged in and posted to ban me for some trapdoor I had stepped on.

So I decided to leave since it obviously wasn't going anywhere good and most importantly the quality of conversation there about rpgs, movies, books, younameit was pretty mediocre.

I was also surprised despite how much traffic there was on the site how little discussion of new games there actually was.

And movie and bookwise there wasn't the depth of knowledge you get here for instance.

I don't go to rpg forums to discuss politics but even there it was rather shallow and obsessively US-centric both in subject matter and assumptions.

Some of the posters seemed cool and some of the mods more reasonable but the overall vibe was way too negative for me.
 
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ScytheSong

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Well how far going disagreement are we talking about here? Is it about saying "I don't agree with the thing", or does it have to be that the person who disagrees with the thing can then get to do what they want anyway?

I see plenty of the former where the worst that might happen is closing the thread started solely for the purpose of saying that they disagree with the thing. Like, so long as the person doesn't spend something like three straight days posting about nothing else except how they disagree with the thing.

Hell, I've seen a lot more people there who post regularly punctuated with the occasional "I am willing to state that I disagree with some mod calls and am constantly anxious about getting banned" then I do actually get banned for it.

But I guess that's the other side, that people can just say that and then simply get on with things that a person would only ever notice if they were paying close attention.

Hahaha, no I'm remembering the time that I started a thread asking if people got all they wanted out of the site and said at the start "please don't just use this to gripe about disagreements with the mods", and of course a bunch of them did it anyway. And the thread eventually got locked, and nobody got banned over it, and everybody who griped still makes about ten normal posts a day.

And I, person who brought up not getting all I wanted out of the forum, wound up here occasionally. Circle of life.

Now I just need to figure out where there's more discussion of The Owl House and Helluva Boss...
Yeah, no. I caught a permaban for pointing out the easily googled truth that Sean Young was constantly under the influence of drugs during the filming of Blade Runner. Combined with something about Islam that I never said. I tried to appeal and never got a reply from the admin email. Eventually, I asked them to remove my real name if they were going to falsely and publicly call me an Islamophobe. That's why my handle over there is now Redacted_User. Still haven't gotten any emails from an admin at RPG.net. And, yes, I'm still bitter.
 

David Johansen

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I think both sites are useful for learning how people I disagree with think. It was easier back in the day when I could just challenge their beliefs and get yelled at with nary a mod in sight. But neither site is really useful for actual discussion of difficult topics anymore. But I'm sorry for fueling that direction on this thread.
 

Voros

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I think both sites are useful for learning how people I disagree with think. It was easier back in the day when I could just challenge their beliefs and get yelled at with nary a mod in sight. But neither site is really useful for actual discussion of difficult topics anymore. But I'm sorry for fueling that direction on this thread.

Meh, forums are a tiny percentage of the overall 'discourse' of the hobby these days. Most younger types don't even realize they are still around.

These days it seems like Discords are the way younglings discuss rpgs. It is good that the Pub has one even if I forget to login very often.
 
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Acmegamer

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gotta tell you, i have no idea what it was for. I certainly don't remember.
You made some type of an emoji surprise/unhappy face at something from someone from Chaosium had posted to someone in regard to OGL stuff last year. Personally I'd have posted something similar if I had read that an official from a company had told someone to pound sand for posting their unhappiness over how the OGL was being handled.

It was a pretty shitty thing coming from Chaosium, it lacked tack. That the mod gave you a warning for posting a response to it was stupid. It's what got me heading down the rabbit hole of seeing what else would earn a ban or warning.
 

TristramEvans

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I was, at different times, a very heavy poster on both forums. RPGnet was effectively my first online home, back in the Wild West Days, as they're known now. When that place became inhospitable, I made my way to the Site.

Just as one can look at old RPGnet threads and just see lines of posts from users now banned, looking back at the heyday of the Site there was a ton of posters that simply don't post there anymore, even if they weren't banned. Back in those days, I think the debates were more evenhanded. Sure, we all skewed a little further to the opposite side of the direction RPGnet went in, but I think there was a moderate tone that prevailed.

But, even though there was an identifiable incident that pushed me over the edge and caused me to quit the forum, I'd been thinking about it for a long time before that, as the excluded middle view gradually got filtered out. I recall conversations in PM there in the months preceding where several others and myself just talked about how it mostly felt we were standing around watching a dumpster fire.

And I think that's what both forums eventually lost of value, IMO - a diversity of voices. Maybe every forum has a "golden age" that's destined to last a limited time. Maybe we're in it at The Pub now and won't realize it until it's over.
 

AsenRG

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I'll also put forth the opinion that 90% of the people who talk on Tabletop Roleplaying Open and related sub-forums would never know about any of this stuff.

The only real difference between that forum and this one is that the front page is longer, and a third of it will be on the second page by tomorrow.
Let's just say that as a long-term poster on both forums being discussed (longer-term on TBP, where I have over 20k posts, IIRC), I strongly disagree and the "no politics" rule makes a real difference to me:thumbsup:.
Of course, the part about being temp-banned twice "for overuse of emoticons" was just laughable as well...so I'm laughing:evil::gunslinger:.

OTOH, TBP really helped me to understand why my slight preference for left parties (I'm centrist, mostly) was...not well founded.

I'm kind of a simpleton: if someone is going to do art critique of a table top RPG, I expect to get insightful review of the quality and competency of the illustrations, layout design and purple prose.

90s WoD books? Lots of "art" to be criticised in there (not all of it to my liking, but still). Labyrinth Lord? Not so much. Fine game though.

Then again, people can intellectualize just about ANY banal thing. There are university studies about Beyoncé, for criminy's sake.
Nothing about mechanics:shock:?

His target seems to be more White Wolf than D&D. I mean, Sorceror is basically his version of "White Wolf Done Right".
So does that make Sorceror "urban fantasy heartbreaker":grin:?

Yeah. Moderation at TBP screwed up to 10, and posts that no one blinked an eye at in 2005, say, were blocking offenses by 2010 and permaban offenses by 2015. Beyond that, the mods got increasingly nasty themselves, and several set themselves beyond questioning or reason. Go back and read any large thread from ten years ago, say, and a quarter of the posters then being banned now is by no means unusual.
And you can add that others wouldn't be banned, but haven't posted in ages...at least not on that forum. Gee, wonder why:shade:?

There were absolutely calls to censor FATAL. Hell, those were some of the milder reactions: more than one poster advocated getting law enforcement agencies involved. I am really not making this up.
To be honest, I might have wanted at times someone (LEO, not random internet poster) to make a background check on Byron Hall...he gave me some creepy vibes, what can I say?
Then I realized the time of a LEO would be better spent looking on numerous more important tasks.



I’ll be straight up honest here. I’m still a member of both the pipe and the purple forums. But neither feels like home. One’s too a bit too left for me, one’s a bit too right for me, and neither really seems to focus on games anymore as much as politics.

I’ll stay a member of both, in case discussion of an actual game I want to hear more about comes up on either, but I’m hoping to find something a bit different here that neither of them really provides. A respite from divisive politics.

Yeah, that's me as well:smile:!

That's not what I saw, most of the bans come from people just disageeeing with Pundit and then when he threatens a ban, if they stopped responding he'd crow about it and call them wusses (literally), if they didn't back down, they'd catch a ban, often in the subforum expressly dedicated to politics and 'free speech.'

The political toxicity of the Pundency subforum spread throughout the forum. Once a poster had pissed off Pundit there he'd look for any excuse to ban that poster elsewhere on the forum, no different than TBP.

It had less to do with politics per se, the main sin is to disagree with Pundit too strenously and too often. Bans were handed out to those on the right, left and centre, the common denominator is disagreeing with Pundit and making him look foolish and/or mocking him.

I think those who wisely avoided the cesspool that was Pundency are often unaware of Pundit's behaviour there and so don't realize what is actually happening. Or have drank the Kool-Aid and can't see what is going on because it is coming from their 'side.'

I once had him frothing mad, posting in all caps and everything, and threatening to ban me for pointing out facts about comic sales he didn't like.
I mostly avoided Pungency, because I was there to talk about games. I've also disagreed with Pundit outside of Pungency, a whole lot (especially when explaining to him why 'D&D mechanics suck for any genre that's not D&D fantasy). Then I got tired of it and found this forum...the rest is history.
Posting history, even:wink:.
 

Ladybird

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IDK, Pundit is kinda moody and bipolar, so I wouldn't rule that out. But most of the bannings I actually witnessed were non-RPG politics related, including at least one time when the poster was just over the top hostile and bringing up politics from the get go. The guy is just very inconsistent about moderation, and would sometimes let stuff pass or go on longer than others depending on how he was feeling that day.
Personally I don't think he's inconsistent, more he's a dedicated "it's only politics if their side is saying it" person; he cares about people agreeing with him and his opinions and not breaking plausible deniability when they're too awful.

I see I was illustrious enough to end up on the long-running "This is Why We Don't Like You" Enemies Thread
A noble goal.
 

Silent Green

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Due to the warning against Raleel I got wild hair and went looking through the area dedicated to warnings and bans. I then spent the next hour reading through it and found the moderators actions often unacceptable, draconian, aggressive in a way that made them just as bad as those they were dealing with. It confirmed for me that I'll never want to belong to that forum community in any invested way.
I confess to a morbid fascination with RPGnet's “infraction forum”, a habit I try to break, because over the last few years it's become a dark and creepy place. I can't tell if the bans are unacceptable, draconian or aggressive, probably because I'm too stupid; I simply don't understand the ban notices. Yes, there are a few clear-cut things like spam and name-calling, and I get that they don't want racial slurs on their forums. But then there's stuff that would put Kafka to shame; and it's growing. Completely alien to me, and for all their inclusivity and internationalism I think the site as an entity is stuck so deep in its national and cultural and political niche that I don't know the fuck they're talking about. Yosamite?
 

Necrozius

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Nothing about mechanics:shock:?
Not if they’re doing art critique. I wouldn’t be expecting any artistic merits from game mechanics.

edit: well, my definition of art doesn’t include Thac0 and Fate dice, ya know?
 

Black Leaf

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Personally I don't think he's inconsistent, more he's a dedicated "it's only politics if their side is saying it" person; he cares about people agreeing with him and his opinions and not breaking plausible deniability when they're too awful.
I'd have to dig it out (and I really can't be arsed) but I do recall the response to someone pointing out that he was bring up non gaming politics in the main forum was "I can do what the fuck I want because it's my forum but if you do it you'll be banned".

Which fair enough I guess, it is his forum. But it puts a certain perspective on the "you can say what you want here" posts from his acolytes. As does that time he banned someone for doing a review of Lion and Dragon that, while snarky, was no more aggressive than Pundit when he doesn't like something.
 

Black Leaf

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Speaking of Pundy, has anyone read his new RPG? I'm interested in it but it's quite expensive. (Weird conspiracies and magic do strike me as something he's probably pretty good at).
 

AsenRG

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Speaking of Pundy, has anyone read his new RPG? I'm interested in it but it's quite expensive. (Weird conspiracies and magic do strike me as something he's probably pretty good at).
I have games I know I'd like that I still haven't bought with that money:thumbsup:

Not if they’re doing art critique. I wouldn’t be expecting any artistic merits from game mechanics.

edit: well, my definition of art doesn’t include Thac0 and Fate dice, ya know?

OK, I thought you're talking about game books as games. Sorry about that.

I confess to a morbid fascination with RPGnet's “infraction forum”, a habit I try to break, because over the last few years it's become a dark and creepy place. I can't tell if the bans are unacceptable, draconian or aggressive, probably because I'm too stupid; I simply don't understand the ban notices. Yes, there are a few clear-cut things like spam and name-calling, and I get that they don't want racial slurs on their forums. But then there's stuff that would put Kafka to shame; and it's growing. Completely alien to me, and for all their inclusivity and internationalism I think the site as an entity is stuck so deep in its national and cultural and political niche that I don't know the fuck they're talking about. Yosamite?
Yeah, you're not the only one to feel like that:shade:!
 

Torque2100

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To get this thread back on topic (and avoid heated politics BS), there are two trends that I really hate in RPGs.

1. "You must have a rule for absolutely everything." I used to really like this but exposure to the OSR has increasingly convinced me of what a fool's errand that is. It leads to lots of contradictions, system rigidity and "there's no rule for that, so you can't do that." I am now much more of a fan of the OSR-school "Rulings over Rules" interpretation. Granted most RPG products will say you can change things if you don't like them, but you may well attempt to actually do that you may find the rules falling to pieces around you.

2. An obsession with excessive character "customization." Basically people now want tons and tons and tons of options for character creation but most of them tend to result in top-heavy characters loaded down with redundant abilities. Also it leads to some pretty silly situations where clever thinking on the part of players runs up against "you don't have the right feat, so you can't perform this relatively basic or logical action."

The absolute nadir of both trends was 3rd and 4th edition DnD. There's a particularly infamous incident during a livestream game where a player found a door frozen shut by ice. He had a fire spell and tried to use it to melt the ice, but was told he couldn't because the way the Power was written meant it could only be used to target a creature.

A knock on effect of both trends is something I have complained about previously "House of Cards Game Design." In a few words, it's where the rules are so interlinked that they actively resist tweaking and will fall apart if you change a single variable. 3.5 was notoriously bad and the OGL years really strangled creativity for this reason.

It boggles my mind how many people will go complete Buttermilk Bob the instant I bring this up and die on the hill of insisting that 3.5 was somehow "modular" when it PROVABLY was not. Pathfinder was even worse since most of its "innovations" consisted of declaring the most onerous and unfun bugs in 3.5's design to be features and doubling down on them.

I do like 5e for how flexible and modular it is. It's certainly a step in the right direction. I do still think that Castles and Crusades is a better 5e than 5e.
 

Dropbear

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To get this thread back on topic (and avoid heated politics BS), there are two trends that I really hate in RPGs.

1. "You must have a rule for absolutely everything." I used to really like this but exposure to the OSR has increasingly convinced me of what a fool's errand that is. It leads to lots of contradictions, system rigidity and "there's no rule for that, so you can't do that." I am now much more of a fan of the OSR-school "Rulings over Rules" interpretation. Granted most RPG products will say you can change things if you don't like them, but you may well attempt to actually do that you may find the rules falling to pieces around you.

2. An obsession with excessive character "customization." Basically people now want tons and tons and tons of options for character creation but most of them tend to result in top-heavy characters loaded down with redundant abilities. Also it leads to some pretty silly situations where clever thinking on the part of players runs up against "you don't have the right feat, so you can't perform this relatively basic or logical action."

The absolute nadir of both trends was 3rd and 4th edition DnD. There's a particularly infamous incident during a livestream game where a player found a door frozen shut by ice. He had a fire spell and tried to use it to melt the ice, but was told he couldn't because the way the Power was written meant it could only be used to target a creature.

A knock on effect of both trends is something I have complained about previously "House of Cards Game Design." In a few words, it's where the rules are so interlinked that they actively resist tweaking and will fall apart if you change a single variable. 3.5 was notoriously bad and the OGL years really strangled creativity for this reason.

It boggles my mind how many people will go complete Buttermilk Bob the instant I bring this up and die on the hill of insisting that 3.5 was somehow "modular" when it PROVABLY was not. Pathfinder was even worse since most of its "innovations" consisted of declaring the most onerous and unfun bugs in 3.5's design to be features and doubling down on them.

I do like 5e for how flexible and modular it is. It's certainly a step in the right direction. I do still think that Castles and Crusades is a better 5e than 5e.
It may sound weird to hear someone say this, but after all of the years it’s been out I am just now reading up on C&C and AA, and have developed a high fondness for their rules sets. I am catching all the TLG books I can for those series, and boxing away all my 5E stuff.
 

Necrozius

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The absolute nadir of both trends was 3rd and 4th edition DnD. There's a particularly infamous incident during a livestream game where a player found a door frozen shut by ice. He had a fire spell and tried to use it to melt the ice, but was told he couldn't because the way the Power was written meant it could only be used to target a creature.
Oh man this really grinds my gears. As if the Fireball spell doesn't set fire to curtains or blow apart wooden furniture.

The issue is that because there's a specific spell that says something like "in addition, this spell can set things on fire", and so, naturally, the assumption by some players and DMs is that NO OTHER SPELLS CAN.

Even worse: having players tell you as the GM that you can't arbitrarily assign Advantage to a PC's roll because that specific set of circumstances is covered by "Feat X" (even if no one in the party HAD that Feat, which has happened to me twice in campaigns that I've run).

Now during session zero I put it out there right away for players that as GM, I can grant circumstantial advantage or disadvantage whenever I damn well please. The rule of cool > RAW.
 
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