What RPG genre do you like the most?

[lategamer]

Savage Worlds would like a word.

And a couple of years ago I might have agreed. SW was all the rage. It's definitely quietened down.

It's kinda my impression about PBTA. It's the new vampire. There's nothing you can't do in any other system, and the whole Move and Triggers thing just seems like Card tricks.

I've spent most of my games money this last couple of years on Modiphius 2d20, various YZE games and a lot of PBTA games. And while they have some themes in common, they're not universal by any stretch.

 

[TheSaint]

Okay, I'll play.

If I close my eyes and dream of the campaign I want to play in...well, that would be Traveller OTU with a healthy dose of action movie. But, I haven't played in a game since high school, I've been a GM and only a GM for the last 35 years. So, oh well, moving on.

I've run straight dungeon crawls, epic fantasy (Lots of epic fantasy. It's a crowd-pleaser.), generic science fiction, historical fantasy. I have ideas on deck for a semi-hard science fiction epic and a six-guns & sorcery campaign (which is in no way connected to the American West). And the aborted spy campaign I started is still fresh, I could totally run that as well, had a great story arc for that one.

Anyway, the question is which genre is my favorite. I would have to say I love science fiction most of all, even though it's in the minority of what I've run. I like fantasy, but it's not my favorite. It does seem like it's everyone else's.

 

[Brock Savage]

Welcome to the board @ TheSaint. Can you tell me a little about your six-guns & sorcery campaign?

 

[The Convenient Skill]

Okay, I'll play.

If I close my eyes and dream of the campaign I want to play in...well, that would be Traveller OTU with a healthy dose of action movie. But, I haven't played in a game since high school, I've been a GM and only a GM for the last 35 years. So, oh well, moving on.

I've run straight dungeon crawls, epic fantasy (Lots of epic fantasy. It's a crowd-pleaser.), generic science fiction, historical fantasy. I have ideas on deck for a semi-hard science fiction epic and a six-guns & sorcery campaign (which is in no way connected to the American West). And the aborted spy campaign I started is still fresh, I could totally run that as well, had a great story arc for that one.

Anyway, the question is which genre is my favorite. I would have to say I love science fiction most of all, even though it's in the minority of what I've run. I like fantasy, but it's not my favorite. It does seem like it's everyone else's.

Fantasy is depressingly too common, especially the sanitised Disneyland style of most D&D settings. Sure I can enjoy it, but character-focused, non-epic style is way my preferred version - I just don't go near the other stuff now.

I don't think I've gamed as player only for many, many years either (one of the reasons I love solo play, which is neither fish nor fowl, but still character centred for me).

 

[Fenris-77]

Fantasy is depressingly too common, especially the sanitised Disneyland style of most D&D settings. Sure I can enjoy it, but character-focused, non-epic style is way my preferred version - I just don't go near the other stuff now.

I don't think I've gamed as player only for many, many years either (one of the reasons I love solo play, which is neither fish nor fowl, but still character centred for me).

Disneyland is a good word. I'm also really not a big fan of generic fantasy. On the other hand, if you add some character focus, as you mention, and some combination of grit, darkness, acid trip, or gonzo science, then it starts to come around for me.

 

[Torque2100]

Fantasy is depressingly too common, especially the sanitised Disneyland style of most D&D settings. Sure I can enjoy it, but character-focused, non-epic style is way my preferred version - I just don't go near the other stuff now.

I don't think I've gamed as player only for many, many years either (one of the reasons I love solo play, which is neither fish nor fowl, but still character centred for me).

Yup. This is one of the major issues that stop me from enjoying 5e. I don't hate the system. 5e has a lot to recommend it. It's very modular and hackable compared to 3.5. Unfortunately, most of the material published for it is very, very sanitized and safe. Most of the really exciting settings I know are published for the OSR. One of the reasons I love Frog God Games is they dual stat most of their World of the Lost Lands material for S&W and 5e.

I'm also very curious about this new edition of Midnight for 5e. Midnight is also very much not a Disneyland setting, not to mention the way it deals with my major quibbles with Vanilla DnD by eliminating Clerics and Warlocks.

 

[Imaginos]

I'm also very curious about this new edition of Midnight for 5e. Midnight is also very much not a Disneyland setting, not to mention the way it deals with my major quibbles with Vanilla DnD by eliminating Clerics and Warlocks.

And just like that, I now need to check out the new edition of Midnight.

 

[rumble]

I'm also really not a big fan of generic fantasy.

The problem with fantasy is that it's EASY. You wave your hand as GM and it's true.
Maybe I just had jerk players in years gone by, or I focused on the wrong things and discouraged suspension of disbelief.

Supers requires a smidge of internal consistency (a tad more than generic fantasy). Sci-fi requires a modicum of science. Modern adventures require a bit of research or experience in the real world. I'd argue that with my sheltered life, I have little of the latter.

You can make fantasy interesting--even the kitschy, shlock, "Happy Tree Friends" fantasy--but most folks don't put in the effort.

 

[Fenris-77]

The problem with fantasy is that it's EASY. You wave your hand as GM and it's true.
Maybe I just had jerk players in years gone by, or I focused on the wrong things and discouraged suspension of disbelief.

Supers requires a smidge of internal consistency (a tad more than generic fantasy). Sci-fi requires a modicum of science. Modern adventures require a bit of research or experience in the real world. I'd argue that with my sheltered life, I have little of the latter.

You can make fantasy interesting--even the kitschy, shlock, "Happy Tree Friends" fantasy--but most folks don't put in the effort.

I think you're really underselling the need for fantasy to include internal consistency if it's going to be any good. YMMV. I don't disagree that some (a lot?) fantasy lacks there, that's certainly true, but I don't think it's a baked in feature of the genre, just of bad writing and design.

 

[rumble]

I think you're really underselling the need for fantasy to include internal consistency if it's going to be any good.

Oh, I totally agree with you.
Wasn't talking about GOOD fantasy. Just EASY fantasy.

For example, Troika is one of those games that failed me utterly. The system is tossable. The internal consistency of no consistency makes my brain melt. I can't bring myself to buy any of it's supplements--they're mostly random idea generators or gobbledegook.

Still, I can't let the core book go. The foundational gonzo is great for idea-mining.

 

[Fenris-77]

Oh, I totally agree with you.
Wasn't talking about GOOD fantasy. Just EASY fantasy.

For example, Troika is one of those games that failed me utterly The system is tossable. The internal consistency of no consistency makes my brain melt. I can't bring myself to buy any of it's supplements, that are just random idea generators or gobbledegook.

Still, I can't let the core book go. The foundational gonzo is great for idea-mining.

Yeah, I love Troika for the same reason. I have no intention of every using the mechanics, but that's ok. I'm not bothered by the 'consistency' of the setting materials, but we might have different tolerances there.

 

[Voros]

I find attempts to over-rationalize every element of fantasy tiresome.

 

[zanshin]

And just like that, I now need to check out the new edition of Midnight.

Ooh there is a new edition?

 

[AsenRG]

Ooh there is a new edition?

AFAIK it's in the works, but it's confirmed being for 5e.
It's out already, it turns out. JAMUMU zanshin TheSaint ...well, those are the ones I can tag in the correction.

 

[TheSaint]

Welcome to the board @ TheSaint. Can you tell me a little about your six-guns & sorcery campaign?

Well, to be fair, it's still in the idea phase, there isn't a whole lot on paper. When the family was deciding where to go after Temple of Elemental Evil, there were a few options: GURPS six-guns & sorcery, GURPS epic sci-fi, and Traveller, and Traveller won. So I didn't end up putting a ton of effort into the S&S campaign. It was going to be sort of a parallel evolution of our world, in the same way that a lot of fantasy campaigns are parallel evolutions of medieval Europe with different histories and political environments and fantasy elements added. But in this case I was going to keep the technological and magical societies separate, like on separate continents, until the technological societies reached the age of sail and discovered them. Conflict ensues. The actual campaign takes place a couple hundred years after they have made contact, when technology has advanced to roughly the 19th Century, but there are still plenty of frontiers and mysteries to be explored. And magic and technology have percolated through both halves of the world, but neither has had the time to come out on top.

Amusingly my daughter was the one holdout for the S&S campaign, so now her Traveller character carries two revolvers in holsters, one on each hip. Because she's stubborn like her old man.

Fantasy is depressingly too common, especially the sanitised Disneyland style of most D&D settings. Sure I can enjoy it, but character-focused, non-epic style is way my preferred version - I just don't go near the other stuff now.

And, see, I'm the exact opposite. My campaigns, no matter the genre, tend towards the epic, common people caught up in the uncommon, heroic, save-the-world type of campaigns. I always joke that if you play in one of my campaigns, your character may not wind up rich, but they will probably end up with a high school named after them.

I don't think I've gamed as player only for many, many years either (one of the reasons I love solo play, which is neither fish nor fowl, but still character centred for me).

I kinda got burned out on it all. Especially doing all GURPS, I just got tired of having to roll my own every time. It was fun for a while, for a long while, actually. But with kids and work and all, it just got to be too much. I put like six months of work into this fully developed campaign background for GURPS sci-fi, and then it all fizzled out after an adventure and a half, and I was all, "Why am I doing this to myself?" That's one of the reasons I'm happy to be running Traveller now: lots of available adventures. I'm back to the good old days of buy adventure, read adventure, run adventure.

 

[zcthu3]

AFAIK it's in the works, but it's confirmed being for 5e.

It’s out - at least in PDF https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/369174/MIDNIGHT--Legacy-of-Darkness?src=hottest

 

[AsenRG]

It’s out - at least in PDF https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/369174/MIDNIGHT--Legacy-of-Darkness?src=hottest

Apologies for the unintended disinformation, I edited the previous post!

In my defense, I'm not sure I'd get it, given the rule system and likely setting changes.

 

[zanshin]

AFAIK it's in the works, but it's confirmed being for 5e.
It's out already, it turns out. JAMUMU zanshin @The Saint ...well, those are the ones I can tag in the correction.

Ordered

 

[Savage Schemer]

Disneyland is a good word. I'm also really not a big fan of generic fantasy. On the other hand, if you add some character focus, as you mention, and some combination of grit, darkness, acid trip, or gonzo science, then it starts to come around for me.

Talislanta, anyone?

 

[AsenRG]

Talislanta, anyone?

Yes.

 

[Acmegamer]

I kinda got burned out on it all. Especially doing all GURPS, I just got tired of having to roll my own every time. It was fun for a while, for a long while, actually. But with kids and work and all, it just got to be too much. I put like six months of work into this fully developed campaign background for GURPS sci-fi, and then it all fizzled out after an adventure and a half, and I was all, "Why am I doing this to myself?" That's one of the reasons I'm happy to be running Traveller now: lots of available adventures. I'm back to the good old days of buy adventure, read adventure, run adventure.

And yet no one has been able to convince SJG's that a solid campaign world setting with adventure modules would sell well for them. <sigh> They are their own worst enemy. They did Dungeon Fantasy but it's to glib and caustic with a lack of seriousness to it that I find unappealing though I have two copies of both. <mutter> Also starting off at 250 point and designing everything that point total is a total game killer for me, no where to really go at that start point total. In my opinion Sean Punch was the worst thing to ever happen to GURPS.

 

[TheSaint]

And yet no one has been able to convince SJG's that a solid campaign world setting with adventure modules would sell well for them. <sigh> They are their own worst enemy.

I'm still convinced that the main reason D&D became the dominant role playing game back in the 1980s was because TSR published so many pre-made adventures for it. It wasn't the first to market, or the best system, but it was the easiest to play because it took the least amount of work. If we wanted to play D&D on any given weekend, we went down to the local game store (The Last Grenadier in Burbank, baby. Anyone else here remember Norm?), bought the latest module, read it on Thursday night, and Friday night we were ready to go. Nobody else was really putting the effort into doing that, with the possible exception of GDW.

They did Dungeon Fantasy but it's to glib and caustic with a lack of seriousness to it that I find unappealing though I have two copies of both. <mutter> Also starting off at 250 point and designing everything that point total is a total game killer for me, no where to really go at that start point total.

It's funny, I've never bought a single Dungeon Fantasy product. I took one look at the product line when it came out and thought, "I've been running GURPS Fantasy on my own for almost thirty years. Why do I need a whole new product line to 'make it easier'?" But I'm a cheap bastard.

In my opinion Sean Punch was the worst thing to ever happen to GURPS.

I think that's a little harsh. I don't really like the direction he's taken the product line either. But apparently a lot of people do, including, to all appearances, his boss, Steve Jackson. And he is, almost single-handedly, keeping the game alive at this point. I cut him some slack.

 

[ffilz]

I'm still convinced that the main reason D&D became the dominant role playing game back in the 1980s was because TSR published so many pre-made adventures for it. It wasn't the first to market, or the best system, but it was the easiest to play because it took the least amount of work. If we wanted to play D&D on any given weekend, we went down to the local game store (The Last Grenadier in Burbank, baby. Anyone else here remember Norm?), bought the latest module, read it on Thursday night, and Friday night we were ready to go. Nobody else was really putting the effort into doing that, with the possible exception of GDW.

It's funny, I've never bought a single Dungeon Fantasy product. I took one look at the product line when it came out and thought, "I've been running GURPS Fantasy on my own for almost thirty years. Why do I need a whole new product line to 'make it easier'?" But I'm a cheap bastard.

I think that's a little harsh. I don't really like the direction he's taken the product line either. But apparently a lot of people do, including, to all appearances, his boss, Steve Jackson. And he is, almost single-handedly, keeping the game alive at this point. I cut him some slack.

How was D&D not first to market? Did I miss something? That really did have a big impact, though the flood of modules and other content certainly helped, but D&D took off like wildfire before TSR published any modules beyond Temple of the Frog. When I started playing D&D in 1977 the Giants series modules had not yet been published. All we had were the dungeon geomorphs. We played some of the other games, but kept returning to D&D.

 

[Acmegamer]

I'm still convinced that the main reason D&D became the dominant role playing game back in the 1980s was because TSR published so many pre-made adventures for it. It wasn't the first to market, or the best system, but it was the easiest to play because it took the least amount of work. If we wanted to play D&D on any given weekend, we went down to the local game store (The Last Grenadier in Burbank, baby. Anyone else here remember Norm?), bought the latest module, read it on Thursday night, and Friday night we were ready to go. Nobody else was really putting the effort into doing that, with the possible exception of GDW.

It's funny, I've never bought a single Dungeon Fantasy product. I took one look at the product line when it came out and thought, "I've been running GURPS Fantasy on my own for almost thirty years. Why do I need a whole new product line to 'make it easier'?" But I'm a cheap bastard.

I think that's a little harsh. I don't really like the direction he's taken the product line either. But apparently a lot of people do, including, to all appearances, his boss, Steve Jackson. And he is, almost single-handedly, keeping the game alive at this point. I cut him some slack.

The Last Grenadier, The Strategic Retreat, Pegasus's Gift Shop, yep I recall those game shops in the late 1970's and 1980s. (sigh) As to GURPS, I was all in with it from when it came out until I stopped gaming by 2000 and decided that the hobby was dead and gave all my gaming gear to an old military buddy. (This was right before DnD 3e blasted onto the scene) GURPS was my main system from the mid 80's onward as the forever GM and my long running Thieves' World base campaign.

Realizing my error by 2010 and getting back into the hobby and purchasing GURPS 4e was a shock. Math nerds went into overdrive while I was gone and had orgasmic mathimatical orgies all over the system. The core books were now lets throw everything including the kitchen sink and the old ladies magic wand vibrator, just because we could. Before the system though no perfect had a solid core and very usable core book. All other books were bought and added if you wanted but weren't required. Drudging through the core now two books is tedious and they've just made it too much.

Honestly if I had my druthers I'd toss a lot of money at SJG to actually re-release the old 2nd edition box set in physical and pdf form. As it is, I went and tracked down a solid copy from eBay but keep pondering taking it apart and scanning it so I can read it in pdf form. I would use 3e but Sean went and revised it and they don't offer the original 3e book in pdf form these days. His changes to the revised version of 3e make me think of 4e and I am not happy. I actually found an unrevised version of 3e on eBay and snagged that too. lol. Again though, I love reading on PDF and using the hardcopies for reference but I can't do that.

Oh don't even get me started on their whole anti-pdf phase that they're grown into in the last few years. <Mutter> I backed the Girl Genius GURPS Kickstarter simply to support Phil and Kaja who I am a fan of. That said, I had to and buy the pdf separately. It wasn't even offered as an addon via the Kickstarter and Phil Reed's replies to the fans asking about pdfs has been BS none answers. They've done a good job at alienating some and definitely alienating me. Plus it feels like what Phil Reed does is a conflict of interest. He spends a lot of time on his own Kickstarter's these days. One positive is the Girl Genius book was well done and shows what they can do when they want to.

::glances up:: damn it, I ended up going into a rant about GURPS again. I need to just let it go and move on.

 

[TheSaint]

How was D&D not first to market? Did I miss something? That really did have a big impact, though the flood of modules and other content certainly helped, but D&D took off like wildfire before TSR published any modules beyond Temple of the Frog. When I started playing D&D in 1977 the Giants series modules had not yet been published. All we had were the dungeon geomorphs. We played some of the other games, but kept returning to D&D.

No, you're right, EPT and D&D came out the same year, but D&D did come out first. Forty year old memories are corrected by a quick Google search.

The way I remember it, the box set came out, and everyone was thrilled with it. And then everyone started imitating it. So the late 70s and very beginning of the 80s, the market was crowded. You had D&D, which was the market leader, but you also had EPT, and Tunnels & Trolls, and Chivalry & Sorcery, and Fantasy Trip, and everyone and their mom had a fantasy RPG they were pushing. And then starting about 1981 or so, TSR just started burying everyone else with content. All the shelf space was AD&D books and modules. If you walked into the back room at a game store in 1980, you were pretty likely to find a D&D game, and then three other different games going. By 1983 or 84, it was all D&D, all the time. It was kind of the same way with Traveller, GDW just dominated the SF RPG market by flooding it with content. But it wasn't quite as dramatic, because at that point SF games just weren't as popular.

The Last Grenadier, The Strategic Retreat, Pegasus's Gift Shop, yep I recall those game shops in the late 1970's and 1980s. (sigh) As to GURPS, I was all in with it from when it came out until I stopped gaming by 2000 and decided that the hobby was dead and gave all my gaming gear to an old military buddy. (This was right before DnD 3e blasted onto the scene) GURPS was my main system from the mid 80's onward as the forever GM and my long running Thieves' World base campaign.

Realizing my error by 2010 and getting back into the hobby and purchasing GURPS 4e was a shock. Math nerds went into overdrive while I was gone and had orgasmic mathimatical orgies all over the system. The core books were now lets throw everything including the kitchen sink and the old ladies magic wand vibrator, just because we could. Before the system though no perfect had a solid core and very usable core book. All other books were bought and added if you wanted but weren't required. Drudging through the core now two books is tedious and they've just made it too much.

Honestly if I had my druthers I'd toss a lot of money at SJG to actually re-release the old 2nd edition box set in physical and pdf form. As it is, I went and tracked down a solid copy from eBay but keep pondering taking it apart and scanning it so I can read it in pdf form. I would use 3e but Sean went and revised it and they don't offer the original 3e book in pdf form these days. His changes to the revised version of 3e make me think of 4e and I am not happy. I actually found an unrevised version of 3e on eBay and snagged that too. lol. Again though, I love reading on PDF and using the hardcopies for reference but I can't do that.

Oh don't even get me started on their whole anti-pdf phase that they're grown into in the last few years. <Mutter> I backed the Girl Genius GURPS Kickstarter simply to support Phil and Kaja who I am a fan of. That said, I had to and buy the pdf separately. It wasn't even offered as an addon via the Kickstarter and Phil Reed's replies to the fans asking about pdfs has been BS none answers. They've done a good job at alienating some and definitely alienating me. Plus it feels like what Phil Reed does is a conflict of interest. He spends a lot of time on his own Kickstarter's these days. One positive is the Girl Genius book was well done and shows what they can do when they want to.

::glances up:: damn it, I ended up going into a rant about GURPS again. I need to just let it go and move on.

LOL. Rant away, you're preaching to the choir. If I had my dream RPG it would be a generic system like GURPS but on the same complexity level as Fantasy Trip or Traveller. But, I think that's a different thread....

I don't have my 2e box set anymore, but I do still have my unrevised 3e book(s), as well at three copies of 3e revised. 3e revised didn't bug me, I would say the bulk of my GURPS campaigns have been run with 3e revised. I've run one campaign with 4e (the aborted sci-fi campaign), and I was unimpressed.

I do have to say that I prefer dead-tree editions to PDFs, at least during play. But I'm an old man. I do find having the PDFs convenient. For instance, in our Traveller campaign, we were finding it a PITA to keep pulling up the trade section of the book every time the spousal unit wants to roll for passengers and cargo. So, pull up the PDF, print a copy of the Trade section, instant cheat sheet. PDFs are great for stuff like that. But, at the table, I like books.

 

[ffilz]

No, you're right, EPT and D&D came out the same year, but D&D did come out first. Forty year old memories are corrected by a quick Google search.

The way I remember it, the box set came out, and everyone was thrilled with it. And then everyone started imitating it. So the late 70s and very beginning of the 80s, the market was crowded. You had D&D, which was the market leader, but you also had EPT, and Tunnels & Trolls, and Chivalry & Sorcery, and Fantasy Trip, and everyone and their mom had a fantasy RPG they were pushing. And then starting about 1981 or so, TSR just started burying everyone else with content. All the shelf space was AD&D books and modules. If you walked into the back room at a game store in 1980, you were pretty likely to find a D&D game, and then three other different games going. By 1983 or 84, it was all D&D, all the time. It was kind of the same way with Traveller, GDW just dominated the SF RPG market by flooding it with content. But it wasn't quite as dramatic, because at that point SF games just weren't as popular.

Even by 1979, at least at MIT, it was pretty much all D&D. A few folks did a bit of Bushido (alongside D&D) and one of the old guard had his own game but even folks like Glen Blacow and Mark Swanson of The Wild Hunt did mostly D&D. There was a bit of RQ (including me running RQ occasionally), but D&D absolutely dominated the fantasy play. Traveller picked up and eventually there was a lot of Champions.

 

[TheSaint]

Even by 1979, at least at MIT, it was pretty much all D&D. A few folks did a bit of Bushido (alongside D&D) and one of the old guard had his own game but even folks like Glen Blacow and Mark Swanson of The Wild Hunt did mostly D&D. There was a bit of RQ (including me running RQ occasionally), but D&D absolutely dominated the fantasy play. Traveller picked up and eventually there was a lot of Champions.

Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Just telling what I saw, what I remember.

 

[TheSaint]

::glances up:: damn it, I ended up going into a rant about GURPS again. I need to just let it go and move on.

As a complete aside, did you see this post over on the SJG forums?

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.php?p=2433070&postcount=3

Sounds strained.

 

[thebigh]

Not sure what to make of that. It's good that he sees the need for "more fluff, less crunch" as he puts it. But it reads a a bit too accusatory towards the existing fans.

 

[chuckdee]

Not sure what to make of that. It's good that he sees the need for "more fluff, less crunch" as he puts it. But it reads a a bit too accusatory towards the existing fans.

He points the finger at himself too, so I don't think it was meant in that way... just meant to forestall those that would die on that hill, and try to take GURPS with them

 

[Acmegamer]

TheSaint Thanks for sharing that. I hadn't read it. I only go there occasionally anymore because most of the posters piss me off. They're soo stuck in crunch adding more crunch that they're blinding themselves to the fact that they're alienating people. They do the same thing on the GURPS Reddit as well. Basically and to be quite blunt as a someone whose been playing since first edition, fuck em. They've made this bed and are determined to go down with the ship.

I've run across a narrow and very rigid point of view when it comes to game mechanics conversations with not only the GURPS folks but quite a few other rpgs as well. Ran into it hard with fans of Monte Cooks Cypher/Numenera system, as well as Cyberpunk Red over on R.Talsorian's Reddit. They're quite hostile to having a conversation that doesn't fit their narrow point of view. Even if it's simply to ask a question about a mechanic that you aren't quite grokking. It's annoying as fuck and why I tend to not bother asking questions on Reddit anymore or game company forums.

 

[Acmegamer]

I don't have my 2e box set anymore, but I do still have my unrevised 3e book(s), as well at three copies of 3e revised. 3e revised didn't bug me, I would say the bulk of my GURPS campaigns have been run with 3e revised. I've run one campaign with 4e (the aborted sci-fi campaign), and I was unimpressed.

I do have to say that I prefer dead-tree editions to PDFs, at least during play. But I'm an old man. I do find having the PDFs convenient. For instance, in our Traveller campaign, we were finding it a PITA to keep pulling up the trade section of the book every time the spousal unit wants to roll for passengers and cargo. So, pull up the PDF, print a copy of the Trade section, instant cheat sheet. PDFs are great for stuff like that. But, at the table, I like books.

I started to need glasses for reading about ten years ago and then about five years ago for normal use. I'm not young either, I just find it much easier to re-size and darken/lighten my Surface Pro tablet's screen for reading than I do reading dead-tree editions. I find it much easier to flip to using the dead-tree editions though. Which is why I mentioned for game play the physical books are much better to have and use in my opinion. I think we're in agreement on that. heh.

Also on the nifty usefulness of being able to print up individual pages from a pdf for use. For the DCC rpg campaign I'm playing in, as my priest gets new spells I simply print up that page and added it to my character folder. Quite useful in that way. If I could find a good space, future, cyberpunk etc game to join in I could definitely see myself printing up individual charts, pages etc for game use.

 

[ffilz]

Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Just telling what I saw, what I remember.

I'm sure different regions and groups had differences. In part D&D was probably fueled at MIT by most of the GMs allowing players to bring characters in from other games. That encourages everyone to play D&D. There's also the fact that there was enough game time that other games were occasionally played, and actually MY players complained every time I brought something non-D&D to play... My AD&D campaign that ran there from summer of 1979 to summer of 1981 was fueled by modules so there was plenty of module output to support a weekly campaign, though I also ran non-TSR modules and even my own dungeon or other scenarios occasionally, so it wasn't necessarily enough to support an Only TSR campaign which WAS much more possible in the 1980s. After 1981 though the MIT core crowd started shifting away from D&D, eventually settling on Hero System for a lot of gaming and eventually starting a Space Battleship Yamato campaign before Space Hero came out. D&D was still played, but you just didn't see it as often. There were several Champions campaigns going on. Also there was Traveller (I ran some Traveller when back from college, and Paul Gazis ran an extensive campaign with multiple play groups and even Glen Blacow running a corner of Paul's Eight Worlds setting). A look at The Wild Hunt over the years will give a good idea of what the "older" crown was playing. MIT really had three crowds, the older "Wild Hunt" crowd with Glen Blacow and others at it's center, the college student (or a little older) crowd (not all, or even mostly not, MIT students) and the high school (and younger) crowd. Oh and there was also the board game crowd... Some folks crossed over between crowds, I played with all the different groups. Glen Blacow played in my games and maybe an occasional other game outside the older crowd. Some of the college age crowd played with the high schoolers.

When I got to college (RPI) in 1981, there was much less centralization, and actually what WAS centralized wound up mostly Cold Iron. But there were lots of groups playing in dorm rooms and lounges, or even the student union cafeteria (the central group played on the balcony or in rooms upstairs). Over my 8 years at RPI I ran Cold Iron, AD&D, Traveller, and Fantasy Hero for extended times and a few other games for short runs (notably RuneQuest and Champions).

In 1990 when I joined the games club at North Carolina State University in Raleigh there was maybe one or two D&D games going on (that I didn't play in - in fact that's when I sold my AD&D books), a Warhammer Fantasy Campaign, a variety of board and miniatures gaming, and I'm not really sure what else. Games there would start up and immediately fill and close so I really didn't do much gaming until a PHD student friend of mine said his office mate was into RuneQuest and would I like to run RQ for them and another friend. I actually ended up also recruiting another RQ play group a few weeks later.

I didn't return to D&D until in 2003 when I was exhausted from recruiting for non-D&D games and discovered Arcana Unearthed which at least looked a bit different while still being D&D 3.x so easy to recruit for. I then gave up D&D (other than play by post) in 2007.

 

[ffilz]

On the PDF vs Dead Tree, I'm actually a mix. When I was running Traveller, I used PDF almost exclusively. So was my OD&D play by post PDF exclusively. RuneQuest on the other hand I hardly reference the PDFs... For Bushido I find the PDFs really nice. I have memorized page numbers so I can quickly get to several sections. Others I scroll back to the table of contents, then jump to the page number. And sometimes I search.

 

[chuckdee]

I'm trying to stick to PDF almost exclusively. I haven't read most of my collection, and I'm running out of room even with the expanded space. PDF just makes more sense.

 

[TheSaint]

TheSaint Thanks for sharing that. I hadn't read it. I only go there occasionally anymore because most of the posters piss me off. They're soo stuck in crunch adding more crunch that they're blinding themselves to the fact that they're alienating people. They do the same thing on the GURPS Reddit as well. Basically and to be quite blunt as a someone whose been playing since first edition, fuck em. They've made this bed and are determined to go down with the ship.

I've run across a narrow and very rigid point of view when it comes to game mechanics conversations with not only the GURPS folks but quite a few other rpgs as well. Ran into it hard with fans of Monte Cooks Cypher/Numenera system, as well as Cyberpunk Red over on R.Talsorian's Reddit. They're quite hostile to having a conversation that doesn't fit their narrow point of view. Even if it's simply to ask a question about a mechanic that you aren't quite grokking. It's annoying as fuck and why I tend to not bother asking questions on Reddit anymore or game company forums.

Well, at least they acknowledge that something has to change. I guess we'll see what direction that takes them.

 

[thebigh]

To a degree I understand. There's plenty of people who want lots and lots of crunch, and they need a system and a community they can go to. On the other hand GURPS has always described itself as basically "as much crunch as you want" so I don't quite get the hostility towards anyone who's not after a rigid simulationist game. If Kromm wants to thaw that frost out a bit then I approve. The PbP GURPS game I'm noodling about with is going to be narrative heavy and crunch light so that's important to me.

 

[Acmegamer]

Well, at least they acknowledge that something has to change. I guess we'll see what direction that takes them.

Yup, who knows we might see something positive come from this. I'm willing to be hopeful.

 

[Acmegamer]

I couldn't resist, I went and read through the 16 pages of posts that were there. Really busy for a SJG forums thread, but as usual I saw the same dug in, narrow, rigid defenses and missed points. I saw a post from Agemegos which made a valid point in my opinion get dismissed by one of the rather busy regulars there. I almost posted but decided it just wasn't worth the frustration and effort.

 

[Mankcam]

Yes.

Yes sign me up!