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Voros

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So taking this topic from another thread: many, many kids were introduced to D&D in the 80s via the ubiquitous 'Red Box' by Frank Mentzer for BECMI. I've also read many nostalgic stories of others getting their start with Holmes, B/X or The Black Box.

If today there was going to be another 'Red Box' i.e. a release intended as an intro to RPGs for kids and teens, probably best to assume D&D, that doesn't require another person to explain the game to you, what would it look like?

What would it include?

How would it best be organized and written?

What kind of art would be most appealing to this generation?

Why hasn't WotC already done this? Or was the Starter Set their attempt to do so? If so, how successful is it? Could a kid really pick it up and figure out to play with it?

blue-box-DD.jpg 110274.jpg dd-09.jpg Dungeons & Dragons.jpg dd-classic.jpg 17171.jpg
 
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TristramEvans

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I think the big thing is not making it crippleware. Not a "first two levels", play only pregens, constant talk about "..if you buy the full (aka "real") game" kinda BS advert that you pay for.

Make it a full game. No level cap. Just narrow it down to essentials.

So, just streamlined rules, cut out optional stuff not needed, (feats, etc) paired with dice, character sheets, 1-3 sample adventures, along with a "introductory solo-play adventure." As far as presentation, Id make it look like a modern boardgame as much as possible.
 
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David Johansen

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My usual answer is about 100 miniatures including a dragon, a fold up castle and ship, two big poster maps, one with a grid and the other with a world map, dice. Don't bother with fold-up figures, they don't help you sell against Descent and a million other dungeon crawler games.

But sometimes I wonder. Gaming has gotten pretty expensive with its $50 hard backs. The current D&D starter is cheap. It's cripple ware but it's cheap and the rules are free on-line. I wonder what it would add to the cost to put in a full rule book and what the strategy was. Personally the free basic rules without artwork are uninspiring. I know WotC wants to sell hardbacks, and they may feel that a full one book point of entry cannibalizes Player's Handbook sales, which I'm told is the driving force behind the whole product line.

So, what I'm thinking is, that the complete introductory rules could go to fifth level. I like fifth better than third. I might change up the line-up a bit. Sorcerer, Ranger, Paladin, Monk and Dragon Born, Tiefling, Human, Githzeri. Make the Githyanki the big bad guys or something. It's not that I'm so fond of those races as that I've noticed they're pretty popular. Tolkien is pretty done to death in video games at this point. Personally 5e is too complex for a proper introductory game. Basic is too frustrating and difficult at first level. I've heard so many stories of people who tried to play D&D but kept dying at first level, got frustrated and gave up. I wonder how starting at tenth level would go. You wouldn't want to make a fifth edition tenth level character right out of the gates but with basic it wouldn't take much more effort. You might even go with an adventure with pre-generated tenth level characters and a rulebook that goes to tenth level. If you weren't so cluttered with special abilities and feats.
 

AsenRG

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So taking this topic from another thread: many, many kids were introduced to D&D in the 80s via the ubiquitous 'Red Box' by Frank Mentzer for BECMI. I've also read many nostalgic stories of others getting their start with Holmes, B/X or The Black Box.

If today there was going to be another 'Red Box' i.e. a release intended as an intro to RPGs for kids and teens, probably best to assume D&D, that doesn't require another person to explain the game to you, what would it look like?
Actually, by the "doesn't require another person to explain the game to you", it probably shouldn't use D&D to begin with:smile:. Or at least, not modern-day D&D. Some retroclones might work, but not the 360-kgs ape (in a suit or not).

What would it include?
It would be a boxset.
Links to modern-day media properties that are popular across age groups. Star Wars, Dragon Age, Witcher, Marvel, whatever...not sure about Marvel and Witcher, though:wink:.
A short, concise rulebook with minimum of art (because you want to cram up the rules in it - I'd say "no art", but that's unrealistic today, alas). And you need it to be short and concise in order not to scare your customers.
Small book with Referee advice.
A couple short adventures featruring different styles. A small sandbox-style location, like a slice from the Griffin Mountains, a short time-based adventure, a short mission-based adventure would be ideal.
Dice. If it even requires polyhedral dice, include them. For that matter, just include shiny dice that attract attention. Don't make them custom-dice, though: even if they add a lot, and I personally doubt that, you don't want to catch the flak you're going to get from experienced roleplayers. If anyone googles your game while considering whether to purchase, those are going to turn up.
Video. Put links to your Youtube channel. Make your own videos explaining roleplaying. Show, don't tell. (If it's even comercially viable, include a flash card with the videos in the box!)

How would it best be organized and written?
Examples. Lots of examples - of play, chargen, fighting, GM-guided social interactions...
Something like Atomic Highway's examples of play (with a short comic) would be golden. If you can do it, invest a lot of your art budget there.
Video would be better. See above.

What kind of art would be most appealing to this generation?
Not Qualified To Answer.

Why hasn't WotC already done this?
They're selling a product that doesn't fit. At the same time, they have enough fans they can afford to count on people finding someone to explain it to them. So, they can't, and they're the ones who need it least...why, really:grin:?

Or was the Starter Set their attempt to do so? If so, how successful is it?
I think it was. I'd rate it as "failure". See below.

Could a kid really pick it up and figure out to play with it?
Yes! Kids are quite able to piece together complicated rules.
The better question is, is a kid going to sit down and read it? And, after reading it, how secure would a kid be in having "got it right" and in their ability to run it?
And the answer, alas, would be "way too much reading" for most kids. And for some of those that wouldn't consider it such, the answer would be "I need someone to help me, I'm not sure I got it right", IME.
What's my experience with it? Well, we were recently contacted by a friend who wanted to run a game for his friends, who had watched D&D on Youtube. They pooled the money and bought him the D&D Starter Set from Amazon (reasoning that this is what they need).
Now, keep in mind: the guy had played already a campaign in a different system (VtM, but houseruled to the hell and back)! And so he contacted the Referee in that game for help, because he still didn't feel secure he can make it, and was on the verge of giving up.
If you need another gamer to explain it, it's not a good Starter Set in my book!
What if he didn't know anyone to turn to?
 

David Johansen

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So, the current Basic Set rules have no art. WotC agrees with you.

But yes, I absolutely agree that the rules need to be short and concise. That's one of the big problems with 5e. Really most of my problems with 5e stem from the exception based design. The more combinations you make possible, the greater the chance there will be really broken combinations.

The art is an interesting question. I've noticed cartoons and comic books have moved to quite simple and cartoonish art these days. I suspect indistinct areas of flat, bright colour, with faces in random places, would be the way to go.
 

Stan

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I think the big thing is not making it crippleware. Not a "first two levels", play only pregens, constant talk about "..if you buy the full (aka "real") game" kinda BS advert that you pay for.

Make it a full game. No level cap. Just narrow it down to essentials.

So, just streamlined rules, cut out optional stuff not needed, (feats, etc) paired with dice, character sheets, 1-3 sample adventures, along with a "introductory solo-play adventure." As far as presentation, Id make it look like a modern boardgame as much as possible.

Mostly this. Though I think a level cap is actually helpful as it reduces some of the complexity. Moldvay basic was levels 1-3 with Expert taking it to 14. It needs both starter characters and full chargen. Just drop feats, most of the races, and some of the classes. Don't talk about multiclassing. Give a reasonable number of spells level 1-3, modest bestiary. I'm not sure if I'd give just one archetype and bake into the class, for now. I think, doing this, you could get each class to a page (and include key info on starter character sheets) and races to half a page.

Include dice, character and monster tokens (far cheaper than figures), and battle maps for the starter adventure - no need to get more things to play.
 

Endless Flight

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Levels 1-5 and mechanically easy to level.
Four to six classes.
Complete character creation.
Introductory solo walkthrough.
Pregens for all classes.
Small bestiary with several iconic monsters.
GM advice and tips.
Adventure for 2-4 players.
Aesthetics pulled from modern media.
Dice and double sided map.
Sturdy box that won’t fall apart after unboxing.
 

David Johansen

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Personally, the things that need to be done with basic D&D to make it more approachable are improved stats 4d6 take the best or an array, ascending armour class, bonus spells for wizards and clerics, spells for clerics at first level, races and classes separated for a whopping 16 combinations, 0 level hit dice (oh sure you can give out maximum hp but why have hit dice at all if you're doing that? Really though, you could just drop hit dice and give monsters fixed hp levels and characters fixed hp / level. Yes, I'm still on about the zero level hit dice, everyone else gets it, why don't PCs. Also, make monsters scaleable, there really should be fifth level orcs out there without needing a new monster manual entry.
 

Raleel

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I think the starter set is very close. Boxed set, paperback books. I think the first 5 levels are fine, and include pregens. Include an adventure. Small bestiary. No feats, I think. That’s an advanced feature. Include a set of dice. It should be complete in one purchase, and it should be under $40. In fact, I think you price it under modern board games.

One thing I saw mentioned that probably should be a big thing is the YouTube, as well as social media. Get some actual actors - it doesn’t have to be big names, but people who might know how to play d&d and make it look good. We didn’t have this back in the day, and it’s part of the mind set. Actual plays and the like.

Last I heard, the starter set was selling extremely well, and frankly 5e is a very good system for anyone starting. I’ve had kids as young as 7 playing it proficiently, and had a full table of 7-10 year olds. I’ve been unable to get one to GM though!
 

Baulderstone

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My usual answer is about 100 miniatures including a dragon, a fold up castle and ship, two big poster maps, one with a grid and the other with a world map, dice. Don't bother with fold-up figures, they don't help you sell against Descent and a million other dungeon crawler games.

But sometimes I wonder. Gaming has gotten pretty expensive with its $50 hard backs. The current D&D starter is cheap. It's cripple ware but it's cheap and the rules are free on-line. I wonder what it would add to the cost to put in a full rule book and what the strategy was. Personally the free basic rules without artwork are uninspiring. I know WotC wants to sell hardbacks, and they may feel that a full one book point of entry cannibalizes Player's Handbook sales, which I'm told is the driving force behind the whole product line.

I'd stay away from minis, glossy tokens and shiny maps. It teaches kids that battles require a fancy pre-made map to play on, and you need a fancy token or mini that looks like the PC/monster that you are using in this session. I started with Moldvay Basic which did nothing to encourage using minis, and it included maps that looked like this.
upload_2018-9-25_11-40-40.png

It's an aesthetic that says, you can make your own adventure right now. Get started!

So, what I'm thinking is, that the complete introductory rules could go to fifth level. I like fifth better than third. I might change up the line-up a bit. Sorcerer, Ranger, Paladin, Monk and Dragon Born, Tiefling, Human, Githzeri. Make the Githyanki the big bad guys or something. It's not that I'm so fond of those races as that I've noticed they're pretty popular. [/QUOTE]

I agree on using 5th as the cap. It's enough time to get some real play in. As newer editions level too fast anyway, players will hit 3rd-level very quickly. I'm dubious on including Paladins in a Starter Set. They are one of the most troublesome classes in the game. Having a PC with a code of behavior can be fine, but they tend to be the one that insists everyone has to follow their code or they need to smite them. As for Tieflings, if you want Demonspawn in your Starter Set call them that. People like playing Demonspawn, but anyone that likes the diminuitive term Tiefling. WotC clutches onto the term desperately because they own it as part of their IP, but its just not a good word. Tieflings are popular with D&D players because they know they are Demons. If a kid picks up a box for a game that says he can play Tieflings, he'll probably just wonder if they are a less cool version of Halflings.

Your class selection feels overly flavored to me as well. If I want to make a fighter type, I have Ranger or Paladin? Both of those carry a lot of preconceptions that Fighter doesn't. If you are going to have just four classes, making them specialist variants makes the game feel constrained to me, like its a sampler plate and not a full game.

But yes, I absolutely agree that the rules need to be short and concise. That's one of the big problems with 5e. Really most of my problems with 5e stem from the exception based design. The more combinations you make possible, the greater the chance there will be really broken combinations.

Agreed. On top of that, if you want a game that a kid can talk his friends into trying for the first time, you have at most five minutes for them to make characters before they start to balk at the idea of playing this stupid game. As someone that has played a lot of RPGs with non-gamers, you have about five minutes with them as well. B/X worked well as the only real\ choice you made was picking a class. You needed to buy equipment too, but you can just give them their gold and have equipment buying as the first thing they do in the game. It really doesn't change much, but it gets you past the "When do we actually get to start playing?" bump.

Personally, the things that need to be done with basic D&D to make it more approachable are improved stats 4d6 take the best or an array...

I'm fine with letting players juice the Prime Requisite for the class that they want, but I've always felt 4d6 is the worst way to approach it. It gives an across-the-board boost that reduced the chances of weak stat even if they aren't valuable to your class. If I am making a Sorcerer, then giving me a 4d6 in Strength isn't about my concept, its just about trying to negate any chance my character might have some flaw that gives the high Strength character a chance to shine. Any time I play in a game with 4d6 I wonder why they don't just do away with 3-10 as stats and just roll 1d8 to see what they get from 11-18. That may sound facetious, but seriously, if you want a game with no negative modifiers in anything, just play it that way.

...races and classes separated for a whopping 16 combinations...

Before I say anything, let me declare that I strongly prefer simply having classes. From a mechanical standpoint, it leads to less exploits. From a roleplaying perspective, it leads to people picking a race because they want to play that race, not just because it has the ability modifier that they need for their build.

Moving on to your comment, does it really create 16 combinations that people will play? The monk is going to be a Githzerai. The Sorcerer is going to be a Tiefling, etc.

...0 level hit dice (oh sure you can give out maximum hp but why have hit dice at all if you're doing that?

Having run B/X for people that are new to it many times, I am of the opinion that fragile 1st-level characters are one of its best features. At least one character is likely to die during the first session. If you are concerned that someone will ragequit because their character died, it's going to be a lot more likely if they are introduced to PC death at 5th level than at 1st level. With a 1st-level death, they spend a few minutes rolling up a character and I contrive to get them right back into the action. Players get that it is part of the game.

If you aren't willing to rip off the band-aid of character death in the first session, it's only going to be worse when it happens.

I know a lot of kids. Kids today all play Minecraft. If you haven't played Minecraft, you generate a persistent world with any changes you make remaining. You can save the game to pick up later, but you can't go back to earlier saves. When you die, you lose all the levels you gained and all your stuff. However, all your old stuff is wherever your died for anyone to pick up, unless you do what my nephew did last week and fall in a pool of lava while wearing his diamond armor. Stuff that falls in lava is just gone forever.

Running games for my nephews, if they die in the dungeon, they make a new character, and they go back in.

I remember my best friend in Chicago was telling me a couple of years ago about playing Skyrim in front of his seven-year-old, Minecraft-playing kid. His kid was fascinated. My friend has acquired a follower that was adventuring with him, but the follower died in a fight. He went back to his last save and his follower was alive again.

His kid said, "So you just undid that fight? It didn't happen?"

He nodded and the kid said, "That's lame."

He went off to play Minecraft, and my friend said that he felt like the cheapest gamer ever.

Kids today are old school.

Really though, you could just drop hit dice and give monsters fixed hp levels and characters fixed hp / level.

I don't have any issue with this.

Also, make monsters scaleable, there really should be fifth level orcs out there without needing a new monster manual entry.
You don't need a scale, just a few words of advise. "These monster stats are all just suggestions. Do you want an orc in your adventure with a +4 attack bonus, 35 HP and that turns into a tree during daylight hours? Make it up."
 

Justin Alexander

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I think for a Red Box-type product to be effective, it has to be the game. Not the introduction to the game. Not an alternative rulebook. The rules that come in the box should be THE authoritative core rules of the game.

This was my proposal for 4th Edition a few years back, and I think the approach still has a lot of merit to it. Split the game into 3 chunks (1st thru 6th, 7th thru 14th, 15th thru 20th for 5E). Each box contains:

- A rulebook with all the rules necessary to play that "tier". (Note that the splits happen at the point where you gain a new spell level.)
- An adventure book with a complete adventure path to take you through that tier.
- A set of dice and a solo adventure pamphlet in the first box.
- Whatever other goodies (character sheets, tokens, miniatures, handouts) I can get away with and still hit a price point somewhere in the $30 to $50 range.

The second and third tiers would be labeled Expansion Packs. (Let's say, for the sake of argument, an "Expert Expansion Pack" and a "Master Expansion Pack".)

I would release these boxes on a 6 month schedule: 18-24 months after the core set went on sale, I would release a new "Basic Adventure Pack" that would include everything in the original core set paired up with a new adventure. (The approach is specifically designed to leave people with extra rulebooks that they can give away to their friends.) Depending on sales performance, I might phase the old products out. But the goal is to have:

1. A single, consistent box that says "DUNGEONS & DRAGONS" on the cover.
2. All other products are clearly labeled "Expansion Pack", making it clear which product you need to buy to start playing.
3. To have all the rules, you just need to pick up any Basic-Expert-Master combination.

Those products are an enclosed ecosystem. The next thing I do is reintroduce the ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS trademark. This is not a separate game. There is no AD&D core rulebook. the AD&D products are the hardcover expansions and supplements you can use to enhance your Basic-Expert-Master game.

In terms of content of that core DUNGEONS & DRAGONS box, I think the Red Box largely nailed it:

- Solo adventure that lets a new buyer start playing the game within seconds of opening the box.
- Walk-through of character creation.
- A set of clear, comprehensive rules that make it clear for a new GM exactly how to adjudicate.
- Sample adventure for a GM to run for their friends.
- Walk-through of creating an adventure for the new GM.
 

TheophilusCarter

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I think the original Marvel FASERIP yellow box will always be my ideal for a starter game. It was a complete game in two small volumes - one very slim one with the rules needed for play at the table, and the other for campaign info, chargen, etc. Pregen characters and a good intro adventure. A cool city map and counters. Dice, I think. I never even bought any other version of the rules, and only a few adventures or supplements, mostly for the write-ups of the official characters (esp. villains, which I enjoyed throwing at my players). But most of us just made up our own adventures and campaigns based on that one boxed set, and the rest was just gravy: great to have if you wanted it, but not at all necessary. Good stuff.
 

David Johansen

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While I agree with the sentiment that miniatures are unnecessary for play I'm afraid they are necessary to sell a game when there's a dozen other games on the shelf that have them. We're talking about getting people's attention. Personally I'd favor a modular, build your character kit that lets you have the right weapon armour race and so on. But I love miniatures. I don't use them in play all that much and I have a pretty ideal set-up for doing so at my store.

The alternative is the nice, cheap, one book, not too thick point of entry book. That requires the game to be stripped down more. If you have a rule book, adventure book, and monster book in a box it doesn't give the impression that the game is hugely complex but if you put the same content in a single book you quickly hit 200 pages. I always look at the dragon guide books they did a few years back and wonder why on earth there wasn't a matching introductory rulebook. What a huge missed opportunity that was.

If the monster stats follow the rules for building other characters they're already scalable. It's not really that hard, especially if you've got a very stripped down core.

5e's biggest fault is massive monster stat blocks. It has other faults but that's one that always bugs me. Speed, Armour Class, Hit Points, Attacks, keep it simple stupid.
 

PolarBlues

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Star Wars D6 had a great starter set (Star Wars: Introductory Adventure Game). I took the already simple D6 rules, streamlined it further and threw in a few props and a ready to run adventure. Kind of wish I'd picked it up at the time.

That said, that is the problem with any licenced product (including the above mentioned Marvel Super Heroes - excellent pick for this thread), they can never be an evergreen product because the licence deal will come to an end.
 

TheophilusCarter

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That said, that is the problem with any licensed product (including the above mentioned Marvel Super Heroes - excellent pick for this thread), they can never be an evergreen product because the licence deal will come to an end.

Good point. Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't have more cool licensed games if the companies would just limit them right up front. "We're going to give you a core set - or maybe just a limited number of supplements, announced in advance - then the license ends." It might help get folks into RPGs (via a license they already like), but without the inevitable failure of "Oops, sorry, I know we were in the middle of that series of books, but we lost the license ... " Some examples that come to mind are Cinematic Unisystem's Army of Darkness (one great book) and Angel (one book plus a GM screen with part two of the adventure in the book); also Cortex Plus' Leverage (book plus some PDF supplements). They really do give you everything you need to play, and without the company taking on a ton of financial risk and general headaches associated with long-term licensed RPGs.
 

AsenRG

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So, the current Basic Set rules have no art. WotC agrees with you.
And the sooner they come around, the better:devil:!

As a Librarian, I can speak to the D&D Starter Set being hugely popular. It circulates at twice the rate of the core books.
Well, let's hope that it's better than what I've experienced. But based on my experience, as outlined upthread, I wonder what is the share of D&D Starter Sets that see actual play.
Of course, that's a question you simply can't answer with sales data, and yet it's the most pertinent for the RPG hobby:tongue:!
 

Endless Flight

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D&D is better off than it was 10 years ago. That I can see clearly. They made so many markerting errors it wasn’t funny. I can’t remember if anyone got fired for that snafu and that’s being kind.
 

Ulairi

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I'd like the new Redbox to be like FirstQuest with the CD included. Basically what the intro box was for 5E but plastic miniatures in the box, a rule book, player's handbook, monster manual, and quest book.
 

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What would a modern B/X or BECMI boxed set look like? Well, that depends...did Erol Otus, Jeff Dee, Bill Willingham, James Roslof, and/or Larry Elmore carry over to the WotC payroll? If not, then it won't look good at all. :wink:
 

Vincent Takeda

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Any time I play in a game with 4d6 I wonder why they don't just do away with 3-10 as stats and just roll 1d8 to see what they get from 11-18. That may sound facetious, but seriously, if you want a game with no negative modifiers in anything, just play it that way.
In palladium there aren't any modifiers for low ability scores and no bonuses to speak of up until 15 even I think, so I've taken this habit up myself. d8+10 just as you say, though I imagnne d10+8 would be fine as well, I prefer the platonic d8 personally. Alternatively for the folks who love them bell curves, instead of 4d6 drop lowest, why not 2d6+6.
 
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Vincent Takeda

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Taken to its contemporary extreme, a new redbox would be a small box containing a character mini for each class archetype, a set of polyhedrals, and a thumbdrive containing both the rulebooks, inspirational supplemental artwork, and simple sample play tutorial videos. If its to be tactical battlemat editon, suggest using pennies to represent opponents so that entry level players dont have to shell out for opponent minis right out of the gate. Also for battlemat edition perhaps provide a simple 4fold chessboard like battlegrid on one side showing a nondescript building and hexmap on the other showing a nondescript wilderness area.

Given the battleboard is 16x16 and folds in half twice ala monopoly boards, your final packaging will be roughly an 8x8x1 inch box. Nice and portable. Throw in some dry erase markers and 4 laminated cardstock 8x8 character sheets so they can draw on the battlemat and the character sheets are reusable and quick to make dynamic changes on.
 
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AsenRG

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What would a modern B/X or BECMI boxed set look like? Well, that depends...did Erol Otus, Jeff Dee, Bill Willingham, James Roslof, and/or Larry Elmore carry over to the WotC payroll? If not, then it won't look good at all. :wink:
Then I guess Bethorm is your favourite introduction for new players? It sure looks great:smile:!

Personally,I was thinking something like the Tunnels & Trolls quickstart produced by T&T Japan would be halfway there. Simple system, explained with a fun manga-style comic, what's not to like for new players:wink:?
 

Dumarest

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I'd honestly prefer the game not to accentuate material components like a pseudo-boardgame, but to introduce and drive home "theatre of the mind" style play, which is a big distinguishing factor for RPGs.
I concur as it would give the impression miniatures and a board or terrain or dungeon tiles are somehow necessary, as well as the impression that if you lack the right figure or terrain you need to acquire it before you can play that character or that scenario. Not to mention fights over who gets the coolest miniature.
 

Endless Flight

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When I said to include a double-sided map it meant perhaps include a regional or continental map of an included setting or perhaps it’s just a generic area. I always loved maps like that. We all can’t draw maps like Darlene.
 

Baulderstone

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I concur as it would give the impression miniatures and a board or terrain or dungeon tiles are somehow necessary, as well as the impression that if you lack the right figure or terrain you need to acquire it before you can play that character or that scenario. Not to mention fights over who gets the coolest miniature.
It also adds a lot of expense. You want your Basic Set to be something that a kid can see in a bookstore or toy store and have a chance being something they either have the pocket money for or something that is cheap enough that they can convince their parents to buy it for them.
 

David Johansen

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Of course you could have both. I bought the blue expert book to use with my blue basic book back in the day. There was no way I could afford twelve freakin' dollars at the time. Really, if I were in charge I'd look into doing the basic rules in a magazine format. Floppy gloss cover and newsprint inside. Print a million and sell 'em for six bucks each. This particular special edition would include the classic four races, four classes, five alignments and run to tenth level. I'd make some kind of fuss about it in the press and advertise the big brick of miniatures on the inside back cover. If at all possible I'd get Dave Trampier to illustrate the whole thing in the style of Wormy.

The big brick of miniatures would be a box with ten each of two sprues. Sprue one can make humans, elves, dwarves, hobgoblins, skeletons, zombies, halflings, and goblins in male and female. That may sound like a lot but the figures are multi part and the humans, elves, and hobgoblins use the same bodies as do the halflings, goblins, and dwarves. It's tight on the sprue so the bodies arms and legs are one piece and the heads and weapons with hands attached are separate. The zombies are made by putting skeleton bits onto other bodies. The other sprue does an ogre, minotaur, troll, dragon, and horse. They're less modular but separate heads might allow the creation of hook horrors, hydras, chimeras, it'd tend to matter just how much room things took up on the sprue. The idea would be to maximize the figures per dollar and have a box that would really give you enough to play D&D. People could make entire armies by swapping bits. One other thing I'd like to produce is a tube of lumpy goop you could squirt onto bases to create slimes and oozes.
 

carpocratian

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Really, if I were in charge I'd look into doing the basic rules in a magazine format. Floppy gloss cover and newsprint inside. Print a million and sell 'em for six bucks each.

Yep, I agree. Earlier this year I saw some adventures that a company had printed in comic book format. Not as sequential art things, but comic-sized with the same type of paper (glossy cover, interior newsprint). It dawned on me at the time that there are a lot of games that could easily fit into a standard size magazine if you cut out a lot of extraneous material.
 

Dumarest

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TheophilusCarter

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That box looks great. Comes with dice and everything. Still the best format for games. I might even buy it at that price, just to see what the new edition is like.
Yah, a boxed set at $20-$25 is even in the realm of an impulse purchase for me (whereas a $40+ book is not). I'm sure they don't make a ton of money on them alone at that price point, but it's still a smart way to tempt folks into buying the full game.
 

Dumarest

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Yah, a boxed set at $20-$25 is even in the realm of an impulse purchase for me (whereas a $40+ book is not). I'm sure they don't make a ton of money on them alone at that price point, but it's still a smart way to tempt folks into buying the full game.
It's tempting me and I'm both a cheapskate (as far as game-buying goes) and largely disinterested in acquiring new games. I'd have to flog my memory to think of the last new game I bought. Mostly for me RPG-buying is trying to find old stuff at reasonable prices. At $25 for a complete game with dice and adventures, this is hard to resist as Chaosium also has a reputation for quality product in my house: RuneQuest, Call of Cthulhu, King Arthur Pendragon, Superworld, and Ghostbusters are all highly regarded by me. The only real question is can I get anyone interested in playing it.

Sometimes it's like these game companies want to part me from my hard-earned money!
 

Dumarest

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Ever since Stafford and Peterson came back, Chaosium has really been revitalized and increased their quality and responsiveness. It's good to see a longstanding game company not whither and die.
It really is amazing. I have no interest in Glorantha myself, so I'm hoping to see what else they do. I would love a reissue of Superworld that incorporates the material from A Companion to Superworld, fixes the math in the character creation example, has a couple of nice adventure scenarios (the ones in the original are not that great), and otherwise cleans it up a little without making needless changes to a game that works great.
93_rmcwla.jpg sZvSAYp.jpg
Of course that's unlikely to happen. A new Worlds of Wonder would be cool as well even if it's really just BRP in a box with a few setting/genre books showing how to adapt the BRP framework for different settings.
worldsofwonderboxset.jpg
 
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