White Bear and Red Moon / Dragon Pass

BlackWolf

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Since I'm no collector and the original game price is way out of my league I'm building my own Dragon Pass, and It's almost done.
Probably doing the finals touches tomorrow or next week. Gotta put a protective plastic sheet on everything and cut the tokens. 100% bootleg Eurmal version. I battled with GIMP, and am forever thankful for the guy on BGG who recreated the tokens with the art close to the original.
Any of you played it? I want to use it to introduce Glorantha to some friends who are into strategy.

PS: The people in 70's-80's who did this wargame stuff on their basement and sold on zines during the AH/Chainmail Era are real heroes.
I made one with today tools and already am close to fail the insanity rolls...

wbrm.jpg

I'm thinking of using the Hobby Japan cover if I make a box.

Dragon Pass Cover Hobby Japan ver.jpg
 
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Voros

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Holy, that looks great. I've long wanted fo check it out but as you say it now goes for insane prices. I found the rulebook online but haven't got around to reading it, without the game itself seems kinda academic.
 

Mankcam

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Wow, impressive dedication to be able to recreate an entire game.
This is very cool !!! :thumbsup:
 

BlackWolf

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Holy, that looks great. I've long wanted fo check it out but as you say it now goes for insane prices. I found the rulebook online but haven't got around to reading it, without the game itself seems kinda academic.
It has a vassal module, but I have yet to finish reading the rules...
But we can try playing it trough vassal, if you up to it. :hehe:

Wow, impressive dedication to be able to recreate an entire game.
This is very cool !!! :thumbsup:
To be fair, this game has some really dedicated fans, who did some heavy lifting.
The problem was finding the assets and putting in together and doing the physical planning. Different files, some with good resolution and bad board. I made a few versions of the board using the AH ver, because of the turn track but in the end decided to use one that had a good resolution and had just a few touches to do.

The art still gets a little pixelated when you look closely, mistakes were made and I cut some areas wrongly too, but Its playable without major issues. So it's fine. :grin:
 

Bilharzia

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I still have Dragon Pass Avalon Hill edition, with nothing missing!
Gaze upon my 600dpi scan of Beatpot Aelwrin and weep, rebel scum...



But are you going to divide the map board up as Arachne Solara intended?
 

Bunch

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It has a vassal module, but I have yet to finish reading the rules...
But we can try playing it trough vassal, if you up to it. :hehe:


To be fair, this game has some really dedicated fans, who did some heavy lifting.
The problem was finding the assets and putting in together and doing the physical planning. Different files, some with good resolution and bad board. I made a few versions of the board using the AH ver, because of the turn track but in the end decided to use one that had a good resolution and had just a few touches to do.

The art still gets a little pixelated when you look closely, mistakes were made and I cut some areas wrongly too, but Its playable without major issues. So it's fine. :grin:
I have vassal. Id be up for a PbP game if you are.
 

BlackWolf

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But are you going to divide the map board up as Arachne Solara intended?
And how is that?


I have vassal. Id be up for a PbP game if you are.
Let's do it, let me read the manual.
Never done PbP before, anything I should know?
Do we post the moves, or there is a save file for the board state or something in Vassal?
 

Bunch

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And how is that?



Let's do it, let me read the manual.
Never done PbP before, anything I should know?
Do we post the moves, or there is a save file for the board state or something in Vassal?
I'll have to read the rules too. Never played it before.

As to vassal one of us starts the game and records a log file as I recall. Then we pass the log file back and forth via email. I believe we can even play online simultaneously if schedules line up.

I've only used Vassal a few times to play some OGRE. Don't look for it to do much of any automation. It's primarily a substitute for the board and counters. It doesn't enforce rules .
 

BlackWolf

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Ok, so we PM each other when we finish reading the rules? Looking forward to conque dragon pass :grin:.
 

Bilharzia

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And how is that?
It's a single piece quad-fold split map board, not something I would recommend reproducing (!)

If you have any missing or bad pieces, let me know.

The game itself uses very standard wargame rules of the time but with a huge number of special unit rules exceptions, and quite a few for the map itself.
 

Bunch

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I loaded up the Vassal module last night and downloaded the rules but I haven't read them yet. Looking forward to trying this. I built a tv into my gaming table in part to do things like that his but I haven't had a chance to use it yet. This should be fun.
 

BlackWolf

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It's a single piece quad-fold split map board, not something I would recommend reproducing (!)
I'm already rolling for sanity, because I printed in on a huge vinyl, and glued it to the cardboard. Which was hard enough already, but I went on and decided to break it in 4 equal sized parts. Only to find out yesterday while playing some RuneQuest that one of my players started a small business of printing custom stuff like boards and cups, and could do it way better than I did with way better material. :hehe:

I believe I got all the pieces, but I will sure let you know, thank you very much!

So you saying It's simple but with a lot of stuff to remember?


I loaded up the Vassal module last night and downloaded the rules but I haven't read them yet. Looking forward to trying this. I built a tv into my gaming table in part to do things like that his but I haven't had a chance to use it yet. This should be fun.
Awesome! I will try reading it tonight :grin:
 

Bunch

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I'm already rolling for sanity, because I printed in on a huge vinyl, and glued it to the cardboard. Which was hard enough already, but I went on and decided to break it in 4 equal sized parts. Only to find out yesterday while playing some RuneQuest that one of my players started a small business of printing custom stuff like boards and cups, and could do it way better than I did with way better material. :hehe:

I believe I got all the pieces, but I will sure let you know, thank you very much!

So you saying It's simple but with a lot of stuff to remember?



Awesome! I will try reading it tonight :grin:
So the only copy of the rules I have is the PDF of the complete revised rules on BoardGameGeek. If you're using something different just let me know.
 

Bunch

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Ok, so we PM each other when we finish reading the rules? Looking forward to conque dragon pass :grin:.
What scenario do you want to start with? Stemming the Tide?
 

BlackWolf

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So the only copy of the rules I have is the PDF of the complete revised rules on BoardGameGeek. If you're using something different just let me know.
I got mine there, but I noticed It's updated from the files. For some reason he never update the 1.1 files.

The latest version is 1.3 and can be found on the drive links left in this thread:


What scenario do you want to start with? Stemming the Tide?
Yes, let's go with that, and If we get things right we go to next one until we can go full out Hero Wars!
 

BlackWolf

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The vinyl gave in and the tokens paper created bubbles becoming ripped. It's back to scrapboard and planning...
Living and learning... :cry:
 

Bilharzia

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I'm already rolling for sanity, because I printed in on a huge vinyl, and glued it to the cardboard. Which was hard enough already, but I went on and decided to break it in 4 equal sized parts. Only to find out yesterday while playing some RuneQuest that one of my players started a small business of printing custom stuff like boards and cups, and could do it way better than I did with way better material. :hehe:

I believe I got all the pieces, but I will sure let you know, thank you very much!

So you saying It's simple but with a lot of stuff to remember?
A vinyl map probably looks better than the original, the quad-fold is clever but a bit precarious, I wonder how many got torn and frayed, I am supposing it was an AH standard format for maps of that size.

I would definitely recommend playing the scenarios in order, the movement, combat, and reinforcement rules are pretty straightforward. The first scenario doesn't even include missile units (!). There are *so many* special units, plus the different magic systems (Lunar is different from Sartar & the independents), the Dragonewts have a whole movement-teleport system all to themselves, there's the Glowline, the moon phases, the dragons, the bloody dinosaurs(!). It's amazing that the boardgame came before the RuneQuest RPG, because it feels like a RPG setting turned into a wargame but it's actually the other way around.

The core resolution system is frankly a bit underwhelming but the flavour of the setting and the different characters with their special rules make the game.
 

Bilharzia

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The vinyl gave in and the tokens paper created bubbles becoming ripped. It's back to scrapboard and planning...
Living and learning... :cry:
Oh no! Going back to look at the tokens, it's hilarious how small they are compared to similar tokens from most games made today.
 

BlackWolf

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Oh no! Going back to look at the tokens, it's hilarious how small they are compared to similar tokens from most games made today.
Imagine cutting them! haha.
So many tokens lost, I'm going to wait on my friend cardboard material costs, but thinking about going full low budget, printing the board on a poster and using some simple card paper that I can cut without having to use troll strength. If I go poster it will be Arachne Solara style :hehe:
 

BlackWolf

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Project is costing a lot more and taking a lot longer than I was prepared, I put it on hold for now :sad:.
But still going to play online, so It's okay.
 

Arminius

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I tried playing the first scenario once. Maybe I was missing something but it was super-basic—IIRC, essentially one side had no option but to bang against a nearly impenetrable defensive perimeter until time was up.

Not a knock on the game as a whole, just a warning to be prepared to move on quickly.

I do think that all the special rules per-counter are kinda insane.
 

BlackWolf

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I tried playing the first scenario once. Maybe I was missing something but it was super-basic—IIRC, essentially one side had no option but to bang against a nearly impenetrable defensive perimeter until time was up.

Not a knock on the game as a whole, just a warning to be prepared to move on quickly.

I do think that all the special rules per-counter are kinda insane.
The consensus of people on internet is that, all the scenarios are more like tutorials until you can go full marathon.
I will comment on it after I finish the first scenario.
 

Bunch

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I've been setting up as Lunar just to get a feel for it.
 

Bunch

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oh lordy I misread things for a bit. For some reason I was interpreting ZOC as a 6 hex radius instead of the 6 hexes surrounding a inactive unit. It dawned on me when I couldn't find any rule for how to move in a ZOC that I must be misinterpreting something. It makes much more sense now.
 

Arminius

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It’s amazing how many things are taken for granted in many wargame rules, yet you will take them for granted in a very short time.
 

BlackWolf

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Started to work again on the bootleg, did a budget version with a good heavy paper and It turned out pretty fine. In the end I should have aimed for simplicity. I won't be able to play outside when the wind is heavy, but that Is ok.
 

BlackWolf

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It's done. :thumbsup:
338 tokens, 676 cut by hand. I'm not doing this again, ever, haha.

index2.jpg

index.jpg
 
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Dumarest

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Wow, that is an impressive effort. So, give us the lowdown on the game and what you like about it!
 

BlackWolf

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Wow, that is an impressive effort. So, give us the lowdown on the game and what you like about it!
Dragon Pass is the re-implementation of the game that first introduced people to Glorantha (White Bear and Red Moon).
It's been long out of print, so I made this bootleg to study the setting and old school wargames that were pillars for the hobby.
I like Glorantha a lot and decided to visit It's origin.
I want to get close to what people felt back in the day and hopefully introduce some friends who are into strategy to the setting.
It also helped me extracting some of the Kernel of RuneQuest + Glorantha and how imporante Hero Wars events are (of course Glorantha isn't just this event, but It's one of the pillars).
It's also the first time I'm playing a wargame of this kind, so It will be a good experience overall, looking what remains from the original design and what was cut.

It's focuses on the Hero Wars that happen on Dragon Pass circa 1621 and the players will live the battles. I don't have much to say for now, but I might write some words after starting the PbP and running it once or twice.

This is an AD from The General Vol. 20-5 that someone posted on BGG.

Dragon Pass Ad from The General Vol. 20-5.jpg
 

Bunch

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We're posting up our moves in the resources section if you want to download them and Vassal to watch along.

Neither of us have played it before. I've done a quick pass over the rules. Probably get some things wrong. Scenario one is all melee missle and mobility with none of the more quirky bits.
 

Bunch

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@BlackWolf please verify my units aren't doubled in the vlog download. For some reason when I load it up and step through I got double the units showing up.
 

BlackWolf

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@BlackWolf please verify my units aren't doubled in the vlog download. For some reason when I load it up and step through I got double the units showing up.
I think that happens because you load the log on your load file. That didn't happened here.
Try using the last log only. I saved the log after deleting the dinossaurs ant uploaded on the resource discussion.
Let me know if it worked.
 
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