Whither Fantasy Naval Wargames?

[Joseph Wolz]

Why do these things fail all the time? Or rather, why do they flare bright and then disappear? They certainly seem to run companies aground.

I was a big fan of Uncharted Seas, but have been unable to find anything quite like it.

Are there any good naval wargames any of you have played? Fantasy is a bonus, but I like historical stuff too.

I do not know where to look for reviews and such on small scale naval stuff.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

If you can manage to get a copy, Paul Hague's Sea Battles in Miniature may be what you're looking for. In particular, the ancients rules might give you a starting point if you're looking to convert to fantasy.

There's also Donald Featherstone's work. While classic, I personally found it harder to get my head round.

 

[K_Peterson]

Are there any good naval wargames any of you have played? Fantasy is a bonus, but I like historical stuff too.

Have you checked out Armada from Mantic Games? I've not played it yet, but have watched actual play and game mechanic videos on it, on YouTube. Looks fun.

If you're looking for historical, the only one I'm familiar with is Warlord Games' Black Seas. I've not played that either. IIRC, the mechanics in Armada are based off of Black Seas?

 

[David Johansen]

Why do they fail all the time? Probably too much fantasy. It reaches the point where everything is magical and nothing is meaningful.

 

[Simlasa]

Why do they fail all the time? Probably too much fantasy. It reaches the point where everything is magical and nothing is meaningful.

I think there's something to that.
Historical naval battles appeal to me, as do fantasy ones... but I want something that retains a good bit of the plausible nautical elements, with just a hint of fantasy. That vs. something like Dreadfleet which had Skaven sailing the seas in the rotting corpse of a giant fish (Dreadfleet), and ships the size of small cities with castles on top... and islands shaped like piles of giant skulls.

One I do like is Ganesha's 'Galleys & Galleons', which gives fast and simple quasi-historical ship battles... with the addition of its supplement 'Fayre Winds & Foul Tides' to provide the fantasy angle.
The bonus is that, like Song of Blades & Heroes, it's not tied to any miniatures line or setting, so you can add as much or as little fantasy as you like.

 

[Bunch]

Hove you looked at Sails of Glory? I haven't played it but it gets good marks from some of the wargamers I know.

 

[David Johansen]

I think there's something to that.
Historical naval battles appeal to me, as do fantasy ones... but I want something that retains a good bit of the plausible nautical elements, with just a hint of fantasy. That vs. something like Dreadfleet which had Skaven sailing the seas in the rotting corpse of a giant fish (Dreadfleet), and ships the size of small cities with castles on top... and islands shaped like piles of giant skulls.

One I do like is Ganesha's 'Galleys & Galleons', which gives fast and simple quasi-historical ship battles... with the addition of its supplement 'Fayre Winds & Foul Tides' to provide the fantasy angle.
The bonus is that, like Song of Blades & Heroes, it's not tied to any miniatures line or setting, so you can add as much or as little fantasy as you like.

I'm going to take it a step further and stay the models look too cartoonish and silly. I realize there are some pretty popular fantasy battle games that have looked cartoonish and silly in their day.

 

[under_score]

I picked up Oak & Iron earlier this year. It's not fantasy but it isn't terribly historical either. I've played it three times so far and have had fun so far. I'd like to get it on the table more.
It handles ship movement very well. You've got to plan ahead, ships can't stop or turn on a dime, and trying to get the right angles to hit a broadside is challenging. Combat in general is quick and easy once you understand it. The rulebook is kind of a mess though. It describes the rules in the order that it expects they would come up the first time in the sequence of play, which probably seemed like a good idea for introducing the system, but is a bitch for finding things. If you're in the middle of a combat and some effect occurs that was introduced back in the initiative section there's no reference to help you find it, you've just got to remember it or start flipping through from the beginning again. The whole thing could use a rewrite. That said, it's not too complicated of a system and by the third game it was pretty smooth sailing.
The core box comes with a half dozen ships and all the tokens and markers you need to track everything easily. They've released another four box sets of extra ships. There's a lot of ship customization that you can do that adjusts the complexity of the game, but it's really best to start with just the a couple basic ships in default setup and go from there.
No idea what the community is like for the game, cause I only play it with family and don't really do social media outside of this place, so whether it's been successful or not I can't comment.

 

[Simlasa]

I'm going to take it a step further and stay the models look too cartoonish and silly. I realize there are some pretty popular fantasy battle games that have looked cartoonish and silly in their day.

Oh yeah. Dreadfleet is probably the worst example, but even Man O' War (which was/is popular) had goofy and implausible ships. The Uncharted Seas stuff wasn't nearly as silly... but resin figures put me off.

I'd prefer to just use historical-ish ship figures and restrain the fantasy to the types of crew and weapons... and the occasional sea monster.

Thinking about it, I wonder if not having human figures... troops... keeps naval games from being big successes?
But spaceship combat games seem to have a reliable presence. Maybe because outside of 'Pirates of the Caribbean' there isn't a lot of fantasy naval media?

 

[Fenris-77]

I actually really enjoyed GW's Man O' War game. Probably a little beer and pretzels compared to more simulation heavy games, but it was a lot of fun.

 

[Simlasa]

I actually really enjoyed GW's Man O' War game. Probably a little beer and pretzels compared to more simulation heavy games, but it was a lot of fun.

Yeah, I've always heard it was a fun game. I was put off by the ship miniatures for it, which IMO looked overdone/goofy.

 

[Fenris-77]

Yeah, I've always heard it was a fun game. I was put off by the ship miniatures for it, which IMO looked overdone/goofy.

That is very true, goody AF. Since you can't get them anymore it's less of an issue.

 

[David Johansen]

Though it might also be that Lord of the Rings didn`t feature a big set piece naval battle. Never underestimate the impact of Tolkien on modern fantasy games.

 

[Simlasa]

Yeah, maybe...
Game of Thrones had some naval battles...

Though it might also be that Lord of the Rings didn`t feature a big set piece naval battle. Never underestimate the impact of Tolkien on modern fantasy games.

 

[Joseph Wolz]

One I do like is Ganesha's 'Galleys & Galleons', which gives fast and simple quasi-historical ship battles... with the addition of its supplement 'Fayre Winds & Foul Tides' to provide the fantasy angle.
The bonus is that, like Song of Blades & Heroes, it's not tied to any miniatures line or setting, so you can add as much or as little fantasy as you like.

I actually have that one. I haven’t played it and forgot I had it, I have the fantasy supplement too. I buy anything SBHish that Ganesha puts out.

 

[Joseph Wolz]

Have you checked out Armada from Mantic Games? I've not played it yet, but have watched actual play and game mechanic videos on it, on YouTube. Looks fun.

If you're looking for historical, the only one I'm familiar with is Warlord Games' Black Seas. I've not played that either. IIRC, the mechanics in Armada are based off of Black Seas?

I have not and will do so presently

 

[Joseph Wolz]

Hove you looked at Sails of Glory? I haven't played it but it gets good marks from some of the wargamers I know.

I have not, but will do so presently

 

[Joseph Wolz]

Why do they fail all the time? Probably too much fantasy. It reaches the point where everything is magical and nothing is meaningful.

That is probably why. I think I’m mostly salty that Uncharted seas dried up

 

[David Johansen]

I made some perfectly servicable ships out of tongue depressors and cocktail skewers when I was running Run Out The Guns. Sadly the rules there aren't perfectly servicable. Maybe I'll try Wooden Ships and Iron Men or Heart of Oak.

 

[Simlasa]

Heart of Oak is a good one. Detailed but fun. It's been years since I've had it on the table though.

 

[Sable Wyvern]

I skipped this thread initially, because my entire exposure to fantasy naval games is one play of GW's Man'O'War decades ago.

But I see you're also asking about naval games in general.

I've played a decent amount of Close Action, which is absolutely brilliant. One proviso is that it's fairly crunchy (although not as bad as it first seems ... after one or two games, I found I could teach it to a beginner relatively quickly and easily). The other is that it requires a decent number of players to get the most out of it -- although it can be played with two, (or even solitaire in a the traditional play-both-sides-yourself wargame style), I'd recommend a minimum of 6, with 12+ being the number to aim for. The upper limit is probably 30+ if you have the room and the eager participants. If you have enough players, it will let you run Trafalgar with one player per SoL, and probably get it done in a (long) day if you're well organised.

Each ship is quite detailed (so you don't really want any players controlling more than two), and one of the things that makes the game so much fun is the signalling system. Each player is limited to one short communication each turn -- 3 words for most captains, 5 or 7 for Admirals. These are written at the start of a turn, and revealed at the end. Movement is WEGO. As you might imagine, all this makes fleet coordination difficult, and drives home why the line of battle was a thing.

The game is really about playing a Captain who is part of a fleet, and it shines at that. I would not recommend it for two player games, whether fleet actions or ship-on-ship.