Wrestling shows (AEW/IMPACT/NWA/ROH and others)

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E-Rocker

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Honestly, I have not watched any DSOTR. It seems pretty interesting, but I also kinda don't really wanna know about all the bad stuff that goes on behind the scenes.
 

E-Rocker

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Overall, I really enjoyed the latest Dynamite, but there was one thing that bugged me: It was a logical insult when MJF called Cincinnati "mid," because Ohio is considered part of the Midwest. Which has never made sense to me personally, considering how far east Ohio is, but the general consensus is that it's part of the Midwest. But calling Miami "mid" makes no sense, considering that Florida is part of the Southeast, and/or it's own thing.
 

Chaotic Wooster

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Dark Side of the Ring has been a real hit with the players in my group, most are very casual wrestling fans, but enjoy the show a lot. I suppose the stories are new to them, so we've watched it compulsively since the start.

This season has been mostly solid. The Collision in Korea episode was pretty lightweight, but my friends liked it. I was waiting on the Grizzly Smith/Jake the Snake/Rockin' Robin episode, and it didn't disappoint. Dark as hell, but really good.

The Nick Gage episode presented him as precisely the deluded idiot that he is. My friends were baffled when I said AEW had actually given him main event TV time.

Kanyon's episode was a good one. The Dynamite Kid and Brian Pillman episodes were good too.

The FMW one... Eh. It was interesting to see Onita talk about it, but FMW is just more clown-show bullshit to me.

I thought they were oddly kind to Ultimate Warrior, given it's almost impossible to talk about the guy and not have it end up a hatchet job... They were surprisingly kind.

Luna Vachon's episode was only okay. It lacked the strong narrative hook of Kanyon's, despite the similarities of their stories. I'd have put it earlier in the season.

I did prefer repeat watching the season 2 New Jack and Road Warriors episodes, becase both are a lot of fun. But now 'Jack and Animal are dead, that's a little less true.

The two remaining episodes to air ought to be interesting. XPW is yet more clown-show nonsense and should be an amusing trainwreck episode, and I admit to being fascinated how they're going to approach the WWF steroid trial...
 

Chaotic Wooster

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I flicked through Dynamite for the first time in a while.

Who would've thought Chris Jericho would've been a worse Triple H than Triple H? As one of the few guys there who knows how this should be done, he's bloody excellent at getting himself over at the expense of everyone else. Case in point, Hangman's "cowboy shit" promo, which was awesome...

...except that Jericho had already run Hangman down earlier in the show in a way that made Hangman's have less impact. In isolation, Hangman's promo was the best he's ever done, 100% gold. He's so much more natural as a face than Cody. After months... Months! of him doing nothing that mattered. He does this and now I want him to get the belt after all.

But Jericho... Man. I know he's a physical wreck now, ought to be a manager rather than in the ring. But the stuff he's got up to in AEW... He doesn't screw over the EVPs, but anyone else, he finds a way to do it!

Honest to god, of Tony had a clue, he'd have forbidden anyone else from saying "shit" all show. But Tony can't say no, or doesn't know why he should. Same with blood, table spots, fighting off up the ramp, backstage interviews turning into brawls, etc. We had two women's interviews tonight that ended in near-identical brawls.

For all that bitching... This was actually a pretty good show. There is a general sense of improvement. I might watch a bit more the next few weeks. FTR are actually doing stuff. Hangman's on form. Cody and Brandy aren't there. C.M.Punk and D-Bry improve the entire thing by their very presence. Black was good tonight...

...all they need to do is fire the Bucks and Dark Order, and they'll have a wrestling promotion!
 

Chaotic Wooster

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Oh, also, has anyone else watched Cody and Brandy's reality show?

Wow... just wow. It's so bad I can't believe it isn't an Andy Kaufman-inspired gag.
 

E-Rocker

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I've watched the first two episodes. I get a kick out of how blatantly fake it is. For example, I don't believe for a second that Cody forgot to have a bed installed in the bus where his pregnant wife is travelling.
 

Chaotic Wooster

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I'm mostly amused whenever Brandy talks about wanting to wrestle again and win the women's title...

...the women's title of the company she is an executive at...

...At 38 years old...

...when she was never a wrestler in the first place.

It's either no chance in hell or 100% certain... Because this AEW, where nepotism is every bit as bad as the WWE and the writer wants everyone to be his happy friend forever. Sooo... Who knows.

I mean, Cody has completely heeled himself making this show. None of the other EVPs were stupid enough to appear on a single second of it. It buries... Just everything. The entire sport... Everyone in it... The very concept of wrestling... All to make Cody look like a savior of the business, which it utterly fails to do, because while he's got the knowledge from his dad, he has no instincts for this... As proven by his world shaking promo, that appeared to take months to write and wasn't even remotely as good as Hangman's this week.

Honestly, this show is so bad... But watching Brandy pretend she knows anything at all while smuggling a beachball is just hilarious. It's the most tone deaf thing I've seen in ages. I should be offended to the very core of my being by wrestling being exposed this badly and made to look as stupid as this show makes it look, but it's just so fascinatingly terrible.
 

urbwar

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I doubt any of the other EVP's would appear on Cody's show. From all reports, they're not really close anymore. Besides, they've got their Youtube show to showcase themselves with.

I'm watching the MLW Fightland special and while the Middleweight title match was fun, I'm not really digging the title vs title match between Fatu and Hammerstone. Fatu isn't bad, but Hammerstone doesn't impress me much.
 

urbwar

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So I'm catching up on AEW, and I'm at the episode where Page did his Cowboy Shit promo. I didn't see anything with Jericho running down Page at all when I watched it. When exactly did he do so? The copy I saw was a recoding of the tv broadcast, and I don't recall Jericho mentioning Page at all. He was running down Paige Van Zandt (the female MMA fighter) during the Inner Circle/ATT segment, but that was it.

Regardless, the reaction from the crowd tells me nothing anyone could have aid would lessen the impact that promo had. The crowd is solidly behind Page, and nothing anyone could say, even Jericho, will change that.

After watching the main event, I'd love to see Danielson and/or Fish work with Daniel Garcia. Hell, a stable with them would be pretty cool.

Also, Malakai Black and Suzuki need to beat the crap out of each other sometime.

With RoH releasing their talent after Final Battle, I really hope Rush, Dragon Lee, etc, join Andrade in AEW. Their roster is stacked, but damn, the feud they can have against Death Triangle will be pretty good.
 

Chaotic Wooster

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Bloody hell, anyone else catch the latest wave of WWE releases?

Keith Lee
Mia Yim
Karrion Kross
Nia Jax
Ember Moon
Eva Marie (not sure why they bothered hiring her back... Or at all...)
Ember Moon

A bunch more too... Mostly from NXT.
 

urbwar

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Bloody hell, anyone else catch the latest wave of WWE releases?

Keith Lee
Mia Yim
Karrion Kross
Nia Jax
Ember Moon
Eva Marie (not sure why they bothered hiring her back... Or at all...)
Ember Moon

A bunch more too... Mostly from NXT.
This after they boasted about record profits. I was bummed about B-Fab. I don't think she's that good in the ring, but Hit Row without her seems wrong (especially since she is an actual rapper, and did much of their music)

Nick Khan has hinted that new people on the NXT Roster might be called up soon

It really sucks for all these people, but in the long run, it's probably for the best. Their roster was way too big (like AEW's is starting to become, which is stupid on their part). Some of their cuts make little to no sense though, but this is WWE now.

Kyle O'Reilly's contract is up next month, so good chance he might not renew and join Cole and Fish in AEW.

Given the report that RoH is 12.5 million dollars in debt, I wonder if WWE will make a play for their tape library. Between record profits and not having to pay all these releases, I bet they can afford it.
 

Chaotic Wooster

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WWE's roster is still bloated even after these cuts, so I'd still cut dozens more if I had say in it. And if the rumours of no-vax/no-job are true, I see that as perfectly reasonable.

AEW's roster is sorta big... The mid-card rotates on tv quite a bit though. I would certainly cut a lot of that roster... Mostly EVPs... Hehe.

Undesputed Era was probably the best booked faction WWE ever had... And most fans never saw them. Adam Cole joined the 'Bucks silly clown crew instantly upon joining AEW, so I'm infinitly less interested in any sort of reunion now.

WWE might pick up the RoH library. Fuck, it might just absorb RoH entirely. I mean, without shows, or contracted talent, the library is all they have. Such a shame too. I followed RoH from early on (getting crappy VHS trades from the U.S. along with my OVW fix!) and some of the best wrestlers out there today showed up on RoH events over the years.
 

Dyrnwyn

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I think WWE right now is focusing on either their big known stars, or the newish developmental group in NXT 2.0, and if you're in between, there might not be a place for you long term. Especially since they're not doing as many live events as they used to. Though some of these cuts are really odd, to the point where I wonder if that vaccination rumor has some merit to it.
 

urbwar

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WWE's roster is still bloated even after these cuts, so I'd still cut dozens more if I had say in it. And if the rumours of no-vax/no-job are true, I see that as perfectly reasonable.

That's some bullshit WWE is likely pushing to cover the negative pr they're getting over this. Same as now claiming that Keith Lee was "difficult" to work with. The guy almost died working for them. I highly doubt most of the people cut were unvaccinated. Especially on the NXT roster, given how many had complained about that nutbag referee that got canned last year (who was a blatant anti-vaxxer)
 

urbwar

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I think WWE right now is focusing on either their big known stars, or the newish developmental group in NXT 2.0, and if you're in between, there might not be a place for you long term. Especially since they're not doing as many live events as they used to. Though some of these cuts are really odd, to the point where I wonder if that vaccination rumor has some merit to it.
From what I've been reading (which includes quotes from Nick Khan, who has been spearheading all the cuts), they want to find young athletes who have not competed on the indies, and train them to be their next group of stars. He realizes their roster is getting older, and they need younger talent. They also want about a dozen top guys between the two major shows, with a decent mid-card they can sometimes push up to main event once in awhile.

If you look at some of the bigger names cut: Keith Lee is 36, as is Karrion Kross. Frankie Monet is 38. I suspect their age had a hand in them being cut, given this new slant towards younger workers. Sure they've kept people that age or older (Robert Roode for example), but they're more established at this point in the WWE midcard. I'm actually surprised LA Knight didn't get cut either.

They're also cutting people who just didn't get far in NXT (Jesse Kamea stands out in that group).

I suspect that Bron Breakker gets called up before next summer, given how he's being pushed in NXT. I just hope they let him go back to using the Steiner name. All the dog faced gremlin comments is pretty obvious.

Lee actually had Covid, then suffered heart inflammation. I seriously doubt after being sick from it he'd avoid getting vaccinated (unless he's an idiot, which from what I know of him, he's not). Were some of the cuts due to not being vaccinated? Probably. I doubt all of them were cut for that reason, especially the NXT cuts (as I mentioned in my previous post why), which is half of the people they just cut.

WWE is already feeding out comments that Lee was hard to work with. I find that hard to believe that he spent two years in NXT, won the NXT title before shortly being called up to RAW, if he was so hard to work with. It's a bullshit tactic they've used time and time again to cover their own asses when they release someone who was popular with many fans. They mishandled the guy from the moment he got called up to Raw.
 

Tulpa Girl

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WWE is already feeding out comments that Lee was hard to work with. I find that hard to believe that he spent two years in NXT, won the NXT title before shortly being called up to RAW, if he was so hard to work with. It's a bullshit tactic they've used time and time again to cover their own asses when they release someone who was popular with many fans. They mishandled the guy from the moment he got called up to Raw.

Yeah, they're pushing a similar story with Bray Wyatt/Windham Rotunda. It seems to be their go-to response when they fire someone who is popular with fans but under-utilized, and were perhaps also guilty of daring to question some of the bullshit gimmicks and idiotic storylines that WWE wanted to saddle them with.
 

Chaotic Wooster

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Well, I imagine Bray Wyatt was pretty fed up, so he might not have been the cheeriest guy to work with.

Honestly though, looking at those ages, and with NXT being more developmental than WWE's little indy show, some of those releases make sense. Lee wasn't getting over on the main roster (regardless of reason or who is at fault), same for Kross. Roode is a hell of a worker, and in no way intended as a future star. He's a carpenter for the house.

For all everyone likes to bash WWE whenever they release someone, none of these guys are gonna hurt for work after their 90 days. Let's face it, Kross is probably gonna enjoy being able to publically shit all over his time there. He's aready started doing so re: the stupid helmet. He's never going to be asked back to WWE at his age, but he'll have a lot of smart fan sympathy. Hopefully it will lead to good payday offers.
 
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E-Rocker

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Lately, AEW has been spending way too much of their airtime on promos for my liking. Multiple long promos per show was a big factor in why I stopped watching WWE a few years back. I'm still enjoying AEW's shows overall, though.

And while I'm not happy about anyone losing their job, I am stoked that Franky Monet Taya Valkyrie will be able to work the indies soon. She's one of my favorites.
 

urbwar

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The person I feel sorry for is Katrina Cortez. She worked the main roster with Kallisto under a mask until he asked to be let go. She got sent back to NXT, and was just making a name for herself as part of Legado. She's from Chile on a work visa, and due to the non-compete clause, has to sell everything and go back to Chile. The rest should mostly bounce back, but for her, everything she's been aspiring to has been taken away. That's fucked up.
 

E-Rocker

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I've not seen any of Adam Cole's pre-AEW work, and thus far, I don't really get what the big deal is about him. But damn if his intro music doesn't stay stuck in my head all week. It's got a really nice build.
 

urbwar

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Before signing to WWE, Cole was part of the US branch of the Bullet Club, and one of the top stars in Ring of Honor before WWE raided their roster. He was part of a tag team with Kyle O'reilly called Future Shock. They had a hot feud when he turned on Kyle (which they repeated in NXT). Here's some of his RoH work. I made sure to pick ones that had what I consider high quality opponents from that time period


This one is a tag match featuring all four members of the Undisputed Era from their RoH days:

 

urbwar

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Seems I made a mistake on Katrina Cortez. She was not in Legado. That's Elektra Lopez. Big goof on my part. Still doesn't change the fact the poor woman is going to have to sell everything and return to Chile due to the non-compete clause she has with NXT
 

Chaotic Wooster

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I honestly wonder if the only reason WWE never did anything with Adam Cole on the main roster was his lack of muscle... I mean, in every other respect he is awesome. A little short, sure, but no shorter than other main eventers. But looking at that videos above with AJ... The difference in build is really obvious. I know it shouldn't make a difference, but this is still Vince's company of giants.
 

E-Rocker

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My buddy is coming over in a little bit to watch Full Gear & I'm trying to come up with a drinking game real quick. I told him it only triggers sips of beer, because if it was shots, we'd be dead before the show is over.

My drink-triggering phrases & events thus far:
  • Tougher than a two dollar steak
  • Pier six brawl
  • Bowling shoe ugly
  • Sobberknocker
  • Tope Suicida
  • Tope Con Hilo
  • Commentators trip over each other
  • Excalibur calls a move you've never heard of before
  • JR gets somebody's name wrong
  • Wrestler speaks Spanish
  • New Champ!
  • Production botch
Any other suggestions?
 

Chaotic Wooster

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My buddy is coming over in a little bit to watch Full Gear & I'm trying to come up with a drinking game real quick. I told him it only triggers sips of beer, because if it was shots, we'd be dead before the show is over.

My drink-triggering phrases & events thus far:
  • Tougher than a two dollar steak
  • Pier six brawl
  • Bowling shoe ugly
  • Sobberknocker
  • Tope Suicida
  • Tope Con Hilo
  • Commentators trip over each other
  • Excalibur calls a move you've never heard of before
  • JR gets somebody's name wrong
  • Wrestler speaks Spanish
  • New Champ!
  • Production botch
Any other suggestions?
You could take a shot every time Excalibur says something stupid. You'd both be dead inside of five minutes.

Or you could take a shot every time J.R. tries to preserve his dignity by refusing to acknowledge something really stupid going on in the ring/said by Excalibur, or tries to cover one of the massive leaps in booking logic.

I kid. I hope you enjoy it.
 

E-Rocker

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Catching up on last week's AEW shows. Thus far I've only seen the first half of Dynamite. Good gawd, did they really start the show with a 20-minute promo? That is literally the main reason I don't watch WWE anymore. At least if I'm going to have to listen to two guys blabber for 20 minutes, it was MJF and CM Punk, who are both pretty good at it. And to be fair, I didn't have to watch the long promo, I could have fast-forwarded, but for whatever reason didn't...

If I owned a wrestling company, it would be called E-Rocker's Shut Up and Wrestle. There would be no interviews, no promos, no vignettes, just in-ring action.

... I don't think my company would be very popular.
 

Chaotic Wooster

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It was a good exchange between Punk and MJF. I would have shaved a few minutes off, but they are two of the great talkers, so I can see the logic in giving them time.

In theory, I entirely agree with the "Shut Up and Wrestle" approach, but so few people in WWE and AEW know how to put together a compelling 20+ minute match, I think the promos are a mercy.

First we'd need a "stop flipping about and learn to wrestle" school. Then you can have your "shut up and wrestle" promotion.

Curriculum (Week 1)
Day #1 Tags, the hundred ways to do them wrong and the only f'n way to do them right. [Mandatory for every currently active wrestler!]
Day #2 Gymnastics is not wrestling.
Day #3 Grimacing isn't selling.
Day #4 Irish Whip vs. Head-Palm Shoot Off: Why the latter should be a hanging offence.
Day #5 If you're waiting to catch a guy who is going to jump on you, you deserve to lose.
 

E-Rocker

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Ok, I've calmed down a bit :hmmm: . I can enjoy the non-wrestling parts of wrestling when they're well done; I just prefer the actual wrestling. Kind of like how I can enjoy a well done fantasy movie, but generally prefer sci-fi & horror. I was just feeling particularly salty that the show started with such a long stretch of non-wrestling. But as long as they don't get in a habit of starting shows that way, it's fine.
 

Chaotic Wooster

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Ok, I've calmed down a bit :hmmm: . I can enjoy the non-wrestling parts of wrestling when they're well done; I just prefer the actual wrestling. Kind of like how I can enjoy a well done fantasy movie, but generally prefer sci-fi & horror. I was just feeling particularly salty that the show started with such a long stretch of non-wrestling. But as long as they don't get in a habit of starting shows that way, it's fine.
I think it's a perfectly justified stance. You're tuning in to watch wrestling, not two guys talk for 20 minutes. RAW used to start that way every damn week, and it was infuriating.

My ideal show is 40 mins wrestling /20 mins everything else per hour. Then again, my ideal show is only one hour long. Two hours is a stretch, three hours is tedious. I still end up watching RAW every couple of weeks at work with a service user. It's sooo long and sooo dull.

I still stand by my point that everyone needs to back to wrestling school. Being given 20 minutes for a match doesn't mean "more time to get all my shit it".
 

Chaotic Wooster

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Chaotic Wooster Malleustein , can you point me to a long match that you feel is well done?
Urbwar kinda beat me to it with some good suggestions. It'd take me a while to really dig through, so I'll just go with ones I'm pretty confident are long enough. I'm going to try and avoid the most obvious picks (like the Bret vs Shawn Iron Man).

Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XX (or alternately, Eddie Guererro vs Kurt Angle from the same show, if you prefer)

Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero Mask vs Title at Halloween Havoc '97 (okay, I'm sure it's not 20 minutes long, but it's great)

Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk "I Quit" Match at Clash of the Champions IX

Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage at Wrestlemania III (honestly, probably not 20 minutes, but excellent)

Johnny Gargano vs Tommaso Ciampa's Unsanctioned match at TakeOver: New Orleans (for something a little more recent)

Dean Malenko vs Eddie Guerrero at Hostile City Showdown '95 (maybe a less well-known technical classic)

Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit at the '03 Royal Rumble (might be a little under 20 minutes)

Shawn Michaels vs John Cena at the 2007 RAW in London's O2 Arena (nearly an hour long on a weekly tv show and great)

British Bulldog vs Bret Hart at Summerslam 1992 (knowing how completely out of it Davey was, it's astonishing how good this is, on the same show is Savage getting as good a match as is possible out of Warrior. It isn't good, but it's probably the best Warrior ever looked...)

Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair two-out-of-three falls at Clash of the Champions VI

The Steiner Brothers vs Tatsumi Fujinami & Takayuki Iizuka at Wrestlewar '92

Walter vs Tyler Bate at TakeOver: Cardiff (tough to pick a best Walter match, so let's just say this one, but honestly almost all of them...)

Rock N’ Roll Express vs Midnight Express at WrestleWar '90
 
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Dyrnwyn

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I got to see that Gargano vs Ciampa match in person. It was an awesome match and a great PPV all around; the best of the several that I've attended.

Then right afterwards pretty much everyone marched over to Bourbon Street, chanting miscellaneous wrestling chants the whole way, and partied all night. It was quite the weekend.
 

Chaotic Wooster

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Some ROH...

Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin at Showdown in the Sun

Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuiness Title Unification at 2006's Unified in Liverpool (which I attended, so totally biased)

reDRagon vs The American Wolves at Supercard of Honour VII (because Fish and O'Reilly have never been better)

The Kings of Wrestling vs The Briscoe Brothers at The Big Bang (Love them Briscoe boys!)

Wrestling's Greatest Tag Team vs Briscoe Brothers vs The All Night Express vs The Kings of Wrestling at Best in the World 2011 (yes, a match featuring prize dick head Kenny King!! But it's 40+ minutes and it has about every style of wrestling in it)

Samoa Joe vs C.M.Punk at Joe vs Punk II (the event is named for it, it's tremendous)

A little EVOLVE?

Bryan Danielson vs Munenori Sawa at EVOLVE 5 (from the early days, unfortunately the card is infected with a bad case of Chikara)

Ricochet vs Uhaa Nation at EVOLVE 35 (Ric' defends the stupid-name-title in a great match)

Zack Sabre Jr. vs Roderick Strong at EVOLVE 45 (okay, this is THE obvious pick for Evolve, but it is awesome!)

EDIT:

NXT UK, because it doesn't get anywhere near enough love.

Cesaro vs Ilja Dragunov (also) at Takeover: Cardiff (if only Ilja was just a bit bigger... He'd be in some shite gimmick on SD!)

Toni Storm vs Rhea Ripley Nov' 28, 2018 (great big woman vs little woman match)

British Stron Style vs Undisputed Era at the 2018 Championship Tournament

Pete Dunne vs Tyler Bate at the 2017 Championship Tournament (the match that launched the whole thing? I'd say so, though their match at Takeover: Chicago might actually be better)

Walter vs Ilja Dragunov Oct' 29, 2020 (might as well add another Walter match almost at random)

Tyler Bate vs Jordan Devlin at Takeover: Blackpool II
 
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urbwar

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I've been catching up on NXT 2.0 the past few days (since all my OT was cancelled as I'm on home rest due to an injury). I was watching the last Wargames show, and the one guy I was most impressed with was Fabian Aichner of Imperium. He's small but muscular, and is a lot stronger than he gets credit for. More importantly, he did two really awesome high flying moves you'd expect from others, not him. I think he stole the spotlight on the tag mag he and his partner had with Kyle and Wagner. The obvious Wagner turn was so badly timed though, but it was good to see the person turning get their comeuppance instead of taking their partner out.

Gargano's promo on the last episode was amazing. I've watched this guy when I followed Dragongate USA and later Evolve, and most of his NXT career. I think while he'd likely never make it on the main roster, he helped make NXT into a credible brand. The rumor mill is even though his deal expired, he's just taking time off, and is likely to come back (as is his wife is still under contract). The same can't be said of O'reilly, who is likely to join Cole and Fish in AEW. His future looked more like a trainer role, and he's not ready to retire from in-ring competition. In AEW, he can still wrestle, wrestle in NJPW (who want him if he leaves WWE). So 3/4 of Undisputed Era are likely going to be in AEW by 2022.
 
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