Your alignment, should you choose to accept it, is EVIL

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Yeah I think doing the cultural relativism in terms of D&D goes *nowhere*. Mainly because Good and Evil are actually not abstract things in D&D.

There exists precisely *no* culture in history that can't have a practice cherry picked to be labeled "evil". Not sure the value of having a discussion on what cultures in what time-periods are going to be lambasted as inherently Evil. Seems silly (and wrong).

The point of the thread, i assume, is *how* do you run a campaign where the explicit conceit of the players are that they are de-facto, to whatever degree, "evil".

In this regard - the aforementioned cultures are backdrops in which to setup such campaigns. "Evil" PC's in Feudal Japan is trivially easy. The goal should be the scope of content that will challenge the "evil" PC's that makes for longterm play beyond being just murderhobos.
 
Yeah I think doing the cultural relativism in terms of D&D goes *nowhere*. Mainly because Good and Evil are actually not abstract things in D&D.

There exists precisely *no* culture in history that can't have a practice cherry picked to be labeled "evil". Not sure the value of having a discussion on what cultures in what time-periods are going to be lambasted as inherently Evil. Seems silly (and wrong).

The point of the thread, i assume, is *how* do you run a campaign where the explicit conceit of the players are that they are de-facto, to whatever degree, "evil".

In this regard - the aforementioned cultures are backdrops in which to setup such campaigns. "Evil" PC's in Feudal Japan is trivially easy. The goal should be the scope of content that will challenge the "evil" PC's that makes for longterm play beyond being just murderhobos.
You assume a lambasting where none is intended.

If you want real pointers on how to run an evil campaign, track down a copy of Stormbringer 1st edition. When the route to actual magical power requires human sacrifice, not just suggests but actually lists it as a requirement for summoning things beyond simple Elementals, it's a safe bet to say that you're outside the normal realm of Good and Evil.

And the best bit is, it's not made a big deal out of. It's not salacious or any of the other cartoony stuff many RPGs tend to do with evil. It's just there. But then a magic system based around bartering with demons isn't likely to be one that's particularly sanitised.
 
Hey now, I am not saying that I see them as heroic. Society has kind of been conditioned to see wealth and influence as ideal models though.

I'd use a couple other examples to support my argument, but they would violate the no politics rule. Without going there, though, it's basically this... there will always be a portion of the population that props up people with wealth as if kings and saviors. These people, no matter what rung they hale from, will idealize wealth over morality. To them, the Banker is god.

BTW... by Banker, I mean the privileged class in general.
Around here, such an opinion is seen as a flow of character, FWIW. As a matter of fact, I'd always assumed that's an universal opinion:smile:!

As for Knights and Samurai... they were both essentially lesser nobles and enforcers. Many of the roles of the Baronet, Knight, and even Samurai was that of a tax collector. In both cases, I have read that they loathed the peasant hero and would see any example of martial skill as a challenge to their supremacy. This is the mark of a tyrant if you ask me.
Actually, this is the mark of a fighting man:wink:.

Yeah I think doing the cultural relativism in terms of D&D goes *nowhere*. Mainly because Good and Evil are actually not abstract things in D&D.
And yet conflicts on how to define them abound, I've heard...:grin:

There exists precisely *no* culture in history that can't have a practice cherry picked to be labeled "evil". Not sure the value of having a discussion on what cultures in what time-periods are going to be lambasted as inherently Evil. Seems silly (and wrong).
Agreed.

The point of the thread, i assume, is *how* do you run a campaign where the explicit conceit of the players are that they are de-facto, to whatever degree, "evil".
Find players who don't mind:tongue:?
Also, I thought that the point was to share examples.

In this regard - the aforementioned cultures are backdrops in which to setup such campaigns. "Evil" PC's in Feudal Japan is trivially easy. The goal should be the scope of content that will challenge the "evil" PC's that makes for longterm play beyond being just murderhobos.
The first step is, then, to establish what the goals of the PCs are going to be. In a Feudal Japan game I'd have them trying to make sure the groups they're members of would survive and thrive.
Then introduce complications:devil:.
 
You assume a lambasting where none is intended.

If you want real pointers on how to run an evil campaign, track down a copy of Stormbringer 1st edition. When the route to actual magical power requires human sacrifice, not just suggests but actually lists it as a requirement for summoning things beyond simple Elementals, it's a safe bet to say that you're outside the normal realm of Good and Evil.

And the best bit is, it's not made a big deal out of. It's not salacious or any of the other cartoony stuff many RPGs tend to do with evil. It's just there. But then a magic system based around bartering with demons isn't likely to be one that's particularly sanitised.
Eh I wasn't trying to insinuate YOU were lambasting - mild hyperbole. But I've been around enough threads on these topics to know that you're never more than a post away from "crazytown" on such topics.

Yeah Feudal Japan is a great setting, in particular, to do evil campaigns. The complications that can get introduced are insane just by dint of the rules-heavy culture.
 
Eh I wasn't trying to insinuate YOU were lambasting - mild hyperbole. But I've been around enough threads on these topics to know that you're never more than a post away from "crazytown" on such topics.

Yeah Feudal Japan is a great setting, in particular, to do evil campaigns. The complications that can get introduced are insane just by dint of the rules-heavy culture.

Dan Carlin's recent episodes of his Hardcore History podcast (Supernova in the East) go into the Japanese psyche and culture leading up to WWII - very interesting stuff.
 
I ran a Edge of the Empire campaign last year. The setup was set in the Old Republic. One or more of the PC's were Sith (only one wanted the gig). The rest were "support" staff hand-picked by the Darth that apprenticed the Sith PC. The Sith PC was the newly surviving graduating member of the Sith academy on Korriban, and his Master was a Trueblood, plotting to assassinate her way to the top in order to rise to replace one of the members of the Dark Council.

The PC Sith's job was to help her in this endeavor by acquiring Sith artifacts, and through assassination, extortion, and by any ruthless underhanded means possible. One of the specialists picked to help facilitate the young Sith was a Gank Cybertech, a Corellion pilot, a human from Dromund Kaas Spy/Assassin working secretly for Imperial Intelligence inserted to spy on the the Darth herself. And a big ass Nikto Marauder who was there purely for kicking ass.

The campaign was slightly mission based, loosely around big "conflicts" that were designed to teach the Sith player ostensibly what it means to be Sith, but the artifacts they were gathering turned out to be heretical teachings of Revan and Darth Kreia - which would either corrupt the Sith PC or his Darth. Either way the idea was for either one or both of them to rebel entirely OR kill their way to dark glory. In the meantime I had a whole caste of NPC's that were antagonists, and contacts, various organizations that worked for or against the secret goals of the party. Including within the Imperial military - lots of anti-Republic stuff. A bunch of Jedi antagonists. Some Rak-Ghoul genocide, plenty of very dark stuff.

Good times. At NO point was there any PvP - since the structure of the Empire is so rigid, the party knew their best bet was on one another.
 
'Nuff said!

Now who's up for the bushi-only Bushido PBP? :tongue:
Rand9m charge or gtfo!

Seriously, though. I've ow ed Bushido for over 30 years and never managed to make enough sense of it to play it. Only RuneQuest 3rd ed has been in my collection longer without being played. I've had that since the Games Workshop edition was printed.
 
Goodman games' Dinosaur Planet Broncosauraus Rex. picked it up the whole line at a everything is a dollar sale:shade:. It has a campaign that lets the pcs play as intelligent steampunk velociraptors cyborgs fighting ancient psiconic T-Rexs. Both sides want to eat each which is pretty evil. Unfortunately, the default campaign is meh bordering on dumb.
 
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