Your favorite game system you wish had more success?

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It’s arguable that RuneQuest without Ducks and/or T&T with different spell names would have crushed D&D by the end of the 1970s.

I think first holds more power than many give it credit.

A lot of games have come and gone but the early games have had a lot of staying power. It is pretty amazing that so many of the first generation games are still with us D&D, T&T, RQ, CoC, Traveller.
 
A lot of games have come and gone but the early games have had a lot of staying power. It is pretty amazing that so many of the first generation games are still with us D&D, T&T, RQ, CoC, Traveller.
That happens in a lot of other fields too. The biggest superheroes are still the legacy ones form 40s for DC or 60s for Marvel. Every so often a characters manages to breakthrough, but most stay B-listers or just fade away.
 
Everything is a matter of taste and opinion to some extent.

Combat has changed quite a bit actually. Dice and adds for MRs, whether it changes as MR is lost, the dice and adds for weapons all changed massively, and combat stunts and spite damage were added. For a rules light combat system it has changed massively.
That's a fair cop, though combat is still largely compatible across editions. I've never bothered doing conversions for older modules or solos.
 
It's just occurred to me that the issues I discussed earlier about Golden Heroes are all addressed in the first edition of Squadron UK, its successor. The currently available version of Squadron UK is quite a bit different, having been written in response to Games Workshop's issuing a cease and desist order over the first edition. Not sure where one would find a print copy of that, but the PDF is not (legally) available. Too bad, as there were a handful of adventures and a campaign for it, and it's probably the best version of the game.
 
It would be interesting to look at the dating of releases. My memory is that they went: Holmes-RQ2-Monster Manual. For 18 months AD&D was an incomplete system whereas RQ2 was a full system.
I think 45 years later we're still waiting for a "full" RQ system. Those heroquesting rules must have been eaten by a lot of dogs by this point! But more fundamentally, there wasn't a whole lot of setting until CoP happened.

From what I have read, RuneQuest may have been much more popular in the UK in the early 1980s than it was back in the USA
At least relatively, yes. I don't know what the sales numbers were, but White Dwarf -- once upon a time a general RPG magazine, not a house minis sales catalogue, believe it or not -- had a regular RQ column and other material. Partly of course as the magazine publisher was also the local licence holder, as noted by others, so in that respect, same strategy really! Punt own stuff. And enough so that the UK was something of a bastion in the RQ/Glorantha dark ages, with a prominent fanzine and a series of conventions.

The first thing I distinctly remember was the Haunted Lands from the RQ2 map changing to the Shadow Plateau in the Companion.
[...] and the Glorantha invasion of BRP Central led me to exit to this place. I won't repeat the common perception Glorantha grognards are their setting's own worst enemies*, because by putting off everyone else they do ensure the setting keeps developing with the same kind of wonkery they love.
Moonosium seems to agree with you on these, as there's a strong "things must only ever have one name!" and "thou shalt have no lore-snarker but me!" vibe over there these days.
 
Count me as another GURPShead who wishes the system got some more recognition. I love the 4e system, although I do miss the 3e era, when Steve Jackson Games managed to secure licensing rights to various literary works of genre fiction, like the Conan novels, the Horseclans, the Humanx series, and even the Wild Cards setting. It's a shame licensing rights are so hard to secure for companies now. I'd love seeing SJ Games come out with GURPS supplements for popular modern Genre fiction: books, tv shows, cartoons, movies, video games...
 
It's just occurred to me that the issues I discussed earlier about Golden Heroes are all addressed in the first edition of Squadron UK, its successor. The currently available version of Squadron UK is quite a bit different, having been written in response to Games Workshop's issuing a cease and desist order over the first edition. Not sure where one would find a print copy of that, but the PDF is not (legally) available. Too bad, as there were a handful of adventures and a campaign for it, and it's probably the best version of the game.
Thanks, that's what happened.

I'd seen people say that Squadron UK was like Golden Heroes, so I bought Squadron UK and was left going really??

Now it all makes sense.
 
Thanks, that's what happened.

I'd seen people say that Squadron UK was like Golden Heroes, so I bought Squadron UK and was left going really??

Now it all makes sense.
Yeah, so Burley wanted to re-publish it in the early aughts. He legit thought the rights had reverted back to him, but he wrote GW, and told them he was planning to re-publish it, less their art and assets, under a different name, just to be sure. They never responded, so he assumed that he was correct.

He put out the first edition of SqUH, and even a few scenarios, a WWII campaign, and a Superfrance sourcebook, the latter authored by the "Pub's own O olivier legrand .

Apparently a publisher wanted to put it out, but wanted to use the Golden Heroes name, thinking it would have more cachet than Squadron UK. Burley again wrote to GW, asking of he could use the name, and this time GW responded - with a C&D.

So, he went back to the drawing board, made some changes, and released the version of Squadron UK that is available today.
 
A new edition, Blue Planet: Recontact, is in the making and it's looking pretty sweet.


Reading the quickstart of Recontact is what reminded me of the game line, actually:grin:!
 
This isn't my "favorite" system, but I thought Khaotic was worth way more than a flash in the pan.

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Yeah, so Burley wanted to re-publish it in the early aughts. He legit thought the rights had reverted back to him, but he wrote GW, and told them he was planning to re-publish it, less their art and assets, under a different name, just to be sure. They never responded, so he assumed that he was correct.

He put out the first edition of SqUH, and even a few scenarios, a WWII campaign, and a Superfrance sourcebook, the latter authored by the "Pub's own O olivier legrand .

Apparently a publisher wanted to put it out, but wanted to use the Golden Heroes name, thinking it would have more cachet than Squadron UK. Burley again wrote to GW, asking of he could use the name, and this time GW responded - with a C&D.

So, he went back to the drawing board, made some changes, and released the version of Squadron UK that is available today.

You probably already know about the clone for Golden Heroes (Codename: Spandex which can be found HERE ) along with the explanation by the author (Blacky the Blackball of Dark Dungeons Rules Cyclopedia clone fame and he's done other games).

The cover artist for Squadron UK (or at least the cover and a number of the interior pieces) is a long time player in my play by post game, which reminds me I need to get to updating the posts before I hit the sack. We originally 'met' more or less about twenty years ago whilst both playing in an online Golden Heroes PbP campaign and we're still at it in 2023. Simon Burley was a regular poster on the Yahoo groups if I recall correctly. These days I think he pops up occasionally on the Tavern, a UK based forum (though of course anyone can join).

SQUK-v1-bok-1.png


Was there another book with a silhouette of Britain and a character inset? I don't have that one. I'm guessing that is version 1 (which was two books and reformatted into one as far as I can tell).

squk-v2.png


If (and it is a BIG if, because I have quite a lot on my plate) I find time to start up another play by post campaign I'll make it a Golden Heroes (original rules though I'm sure I'll want to tinker with some house rules) game and send you an invite. Can't promise anything though - the TnT game is easy to update but the Supers campaigns are up to 7 that I'm GMing at the moment with 1-2 players per game. Sometimes feels like another full time job! :hehe:That said I enjoy GMing, keeps the grey matter working.
 
A bit late to the party, but there are so many games I would have liked to have had more success. Some highlights:

I see your Unisystem, and raise you Eldritch Skies. IMO the best Cthulhu Mythos setting out there. Treating the mythos as sci-fi rather than horror works surprisingly well and Snead writes a game chock full of story potential. Near future sci-fi, mythos transhumanism, a graveyard universe, hyperspatial technology, space colonies, and the entire mythos beastiary. There is so much interesting stuff in this game. This is the game I would throw money at if I ever won the lottery. I'd hire Snead to do a second edition, throw cash as CJ Carella so we could use unisystem, and hire the artists from Eclipse Phase.

RuneQuest 6th ed. Yes RQ6, not Mythras. If RQ6 had more success, chances are it would still be called RQ6 and be the basis for Gloranthan gaming. This is the modern, updated version of the RQ that Glorantha deserves.

Dragonlance SAGA. I liked both the 5th age setting and the rules. I've been a Krynn-fan since Chronicles, but it has always been a book universe where all the cool stories had allready been told. 5th age on the other hand is a pureblood rpg setting. All the familiar tropes are present, but the chaos of the fifth age has shuffled the deck again. In this age it is the player characters that have to find the dragonlances. It is the player characters that have to liberate Silvanesti, it is the player characters that have to rebuild the orders of sorcery and knighthood. And I simply adored the system. Probably many years ahead of its time.

Agone. I'm a sucker for weird french games, and this is one of them. Baroque fantasy with insidious evil that gives the GM permission to give the pcs dramatic lives. Wildly imaginative races, cosmopolitan setting with wonderous cultures, experienced characters, deep history, art based magic.

Several people have mentioned Warbirds, so let me in stead give my vote to its sister game, Remnants. A rules light mecha game set in a post apocalyptical setting. With bioengineered kaiju, ancient relics, beastial near-humans, struggling civilizations and immortal mech pilots. This is nothing less than Exalted with mechs!
 
...

RuneQuest 6th ed. Yes RQ6, not Mythras. If RQ6 had more success, chances are it would still be called RQ6 and be the basis for Gloranthan gaming. This is the modern, updated version of the RQ that Glorantha deserves.

...
That's not the chain of events. Chaosium ran the RuneQuest Classic kickstarter, made a pretty tidy sum of money and all of a sudden, HeroQuest wasn't the best way to experience Glorantha; turns out it was RuneQuest all along. Bye TDM!
 
That's not the chain of events. Chaosium ran the RuneQuest Classic kickstarter, made a pretty tidy sum of money and all of a sudden, HeroQuest wasn't the best way to experience Glorantha; turns out it was RuneQuest all along. Bye TDM!
It's a bit of both. Had RQ6 been wildly successful -- or, to be more jaded about it, the RQ2 KS been only modestly so -- then presumably Chaosium would still have gone ahead with a version of Gloranthan RuneQuest, but it rather than RQ2.5, it'd have been RQ.6.25+300 pages of Gloranthan stuff.

Keep in mind also the "corporate" changes at Chaosium and the ownership of the various IPs over that period too.
 
So I made a character for Ringworld and that alone turned my off the system. Accurate but man that's boring. It was designed for tax accountants.
Yea, back in the day, we made characters for Ringworld. I still have them. That's about all I ever did with Ringworld... I should post my character that is umpty ump years old and has a bunch of skills at 1000%...
 
My next candidate for games I wished had more, or even any, success.



Is there a Polar Fudge Space Adventures? That would be more my speed.
 
I wish Mythras was bigger/more popular.

Harnmaster needs some love, the depth of the setting material is crazy. With two different companies working on separate areas of the world, the material really builds up.

Aquelarre and DragonQuest deserve mention for the magic systems if nothing else.
 
I wish Mythras was bigger/more popular.
Honestly, just re-formatting the book with better and larger fonts would probably improve sales. Maybe add a splash of color here or there. New cover with a better logo. I know it’s possible because Lyonesse is one of the prettiest RPGs ever released.
 
Yea, back in the day, we made characters for Ringworld. I still have them. That's about all I ever did with Ringworld... I should post my character that is umpty ump years old and has a bunch of skills at 1000%...
I have visions of the revenge of the return of super-crits, hyper-crits, etc.

Aquelarre and DragonQuest deserve mention for the magic systems if nothing else.
I have a copy of DQ -- might even be part of the answer to the "first store RPG purchase" question in another thread, but I'm not sure -- and I'm struggling to recall anything standout about the magic system. Feel free to 'mention' at somewhat greater length!
 
I have visions of the revenge of the return of super-crits, hyper-crits, etc.


I have a copy of DQ -- might even be part of the answer to the "first store RPG purchase" question in another thread, but I'm not sure -- and I'm struggling to recall anything standout about the magic system. Feel free to 'mention' at somewhat greater length!
Each spell or ritual is a skill (percentile roll for success, improvable by spending xp) that costs the PC Fatigue points and must overcome a target's magic resistance [both innate and in the form of counterspells]. Chance of casting successfully is modified by local ambient Mana. Each adept (aka magic-users) has to belong to a College that teaches a circumscribed body of spells and rituals. Let's see what Colleges I can remember: Earth; Water; Air; & Fire magic; mentalism; illusions; witchcraft; necromancy; True Names, a la Earthsea; summoning monsters; and lastly summoning demonic princes, a la the Lesser Key of Solomon (SPI actually put almost the whole Lemegeton into their rulebook!) Belonging to any given College makes you either more vulnerable or more resistant to magical attacks from certain other colleges.
I think the magic system's modularity, specificity, and attention to history were meant to make it very clear We're From New York And This Is Not D&D Magic.
 
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I have visions of the revenge of the return of super-crits, hyper-crits, etc.


I have a copy of DQ -- might even be part of the answer to the "first store RPG purchase" question in another thread, but I'm not sure -- and I'm struggling to recall anything standout about the magic system. Feel free to 'mention' at somewhat greater length!
Well, there were different Colleges, as mentioned below, plus the spells and powers were broken up into…
Talents
General Knowledge Spells
General Knowledge Rituals
Specific Knowledge Spells
Specific Knowledge Rituals
Add to that different environmental bonuses/penalties and strictures for each college and the Colleges seemed pretty different from each other.
Each spell or ritual is a skill (percentile roll for success, improvable by spending xp) that costs the PC Fatigue points and must overcome a target's magic resistance [both innate and in the form of counterspells]. Chance of casting successfully is modified by local ambient Mana. Each adept (aka magic-users) has to belong to a College that teaches a circumscribed body of spells and rituals. Let's see what Colleges I can remember: Earth; Water; Air; & Fire magic; mentalism; illusions; witchcraft; necromancy; True Names, a la Earthsea; summoning monsters; and lastly summoning demonic princes, a la the Lesser Key of Solomon (SPI actually put almost the whole Lemegeton into their rulebook!) Belonging to any given College makes you either more vulnerable or more resistant to magical attacks from certain other colleges.
I think the magic system's modularity, specificity, and attention to history were meant to make it very clear We're From New York And This Is Not D&D Magic.
There also was Celestial Magic and the College of Ensorcelments and Enchantments.
 
There also was Celestial Magic and the College of Ensorcelments and Enchantments.
Yeah, mea culpa, I knew I was forgetting something.
One change TSR made to the rules when they released the contractually obligatory 3rd edition of DQ was to cut the Colleges of Witchcraft and Greater Summonings ( = Key of Solomon). To no one's surprise.
 
Regarding systems and success, I have no idea why Fateforge is not so well known.
Fateforge is a re-imagining of the core D&D 5E mechanics in a very rich fantasy setting that feels so much more D&D than the current WotC books do
The production values of the books are premimum, with absoluely lush gorgeous artwork that screams classic fantasy.

I back every product that Studio Agate crowd-funds for Fateforge, it really is very good.

Yet I only see an occasional mention of Fateforge on rpg forums, here and elsewhere, which is a litmus test of how well-known it is.
Just not sure why it isn't up there as one of the major games, as Studio Agate are just like Paizo when it comes to beating WotC at their own game.
 
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I gotta say I’m not sure I’ve ever wanted an rpg to be more popular. I might want more supplements, which is a reflection of popularity. I might have wanted better layout, which can also reflect that. But I don’t think I’ve ever thought “I wish more people liked this”. Even something like Mythras or fate of the norns, which is just freaking tiny in is fan base. It’s as popular as it needs to be, me and my group :smile:

now, if we want to have a thread on what you would change if you had a few million and rights to do whatever you wanted to your favorite game, well, I can write a fair bit :smile:
 
Now, if we want to have a thread on what you would change if you had a few million and rights to do whatever you wanted to your favorite game, well, I can write a fair bit :smile:
You know what to do.
Make it so! :grin:
 
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